John 17: 1-5 (NASB): EXPLAINED

Ron Gurley · Sep 20, 2017

John 17: 1-5 (NASB): EXPLAINED

John 17(NASB)..The High Priestly Prayer of God the Son to God the Father, RANKED above Jesus who was SENT by the Father.
1 Jesus spoke these things; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said,
“Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You,
2 even as You gave Him authority over all flesh,
that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal (spiritual) life.
3 This is eternal (spiritual) life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
4 I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do.
5 Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. (spiritual pre-existence and Deity)

17:3==>This is eternal(spiritual)life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

You, the only...Greek 3441...monos...remaining, sole or single, alone (without a companion), by themselves,

true...Greek 228...alēthinos...
I.that which has not only the name and resemblance, but the real nature corresponding to the name, in every respect corresponding to the idea signified by the name;
real,genuine

God...Greek 2316...theos...
II.the Godhead...
A.God the Father, the first spiritual Person
B.(God the Son, Jesus the) Christ, the second spiritual Person
C.(God the) Holy Spirit, the third spiritual Person
III.spoken of the only and true God (TRI-UNE GOD)
A.refers to the things of God
B.his counsels, interests, things due to him

My Words:
Explanation of the term: "eternal(spiritual)life":
Gained by having a spiritual relationship with the remaining genuine Person of God the Father in the heavenly realms:
the Godhead:
AND especially with Jesus the Christ, God the Son, the Divine Messiah SENT from heaven to save Mankind on earth by God the Father

God the Father's "way" TO Him

John 14:6

Jesus said to him, (Doubtful Thomas)

“I AM
the WAY, and ( Greek 3598...hodos...manner of thinking, feeling, deciding (soul)
the TRUTH, and (Greek 225....aletheia...what is true in things appertaining to God and the duties of man (spiritually)
the LIFE; (Greek 2222....zoe.... absolute fulness of (spiritual) life...which belongs to God,

no one comes to the Father but THROUGH Me.

Colossians 2 ....
9 For in Him (JESUS) all the fullness of Deity (TRUE GOD) dwells in bodily form, (TRUE MAN)
10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;

Colossians 1 ....
18b...For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness (of Deity) to dwell in Him,

QUESTIONS:
1. Does the term "the only true God".destroy the many verses supporting the true doctrine of the TRI-UNE GOD?
2. What verses support the true doctrine of the TRI-UNE GOD?
3. What verses DO NOT support the true doctrine of the TRI-UNE GOD?

TaylorSexton · Sep 20, 2017

Ron Gurley said:
1. Does the term "the only true God".destroy the many verses supporting the true doctrine of the TRI-UNE GOD?
2. What verses support the true doctrine of the TRI-UNE GOD?
3. What verses DO NOT support the true doctrine of the TRI-UNE GOD?

1. No, because Trinitarian doctrine is monotheistic.

2. All of the verses that ascribe deity, personality, and worship to the Father, Son and/or Holy Spirit. There are many of them—some explicit, some not so much. A simple Google search will suffice.

3. There are none because, again, Trinitarian doctrine is fundamentally an entirely monotheistic. In other words, any passage in Scripture—from Christ or anyone else—that speaks of "the one true God" does not contradict the doctrine of the Trinity; the Creed of the major Trinitarian council of Church history begins thus: "We believe in one God."

Baby Cottontail · Sep 20, 2017

Ron Gurley said:
John 17: 1-5 (NASB): EXPLAINED

John 17(NASB)..The High Priestly Prayer of God the Son to God the Father, RANKED above Jesus who was SENT by the Father.
1 Jesus spoke these things; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said,
“Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You,
2 even as You gave Him authority over all flesh,
that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal (spiritual) life.
3 This is eternal (spiritual) life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
4 I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do.
5 Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. (spiritual pre-existence and Deity(

17:3==>This is eternal(spiritual)life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

You, the only...Greek 3441...monos...remaining, sole or single, alone (without a companion), by themselves,

true...Greek 228...alēthinos...
I.that which has not only the name and resemblance, but the real nature corresponding to the name, in every respect corresponding to the idea signified by the name;
real,genuine

God...Greek 2316...theos...
II.the Godhead...
A.God the Father, the first spiritual Person
B.(God the Son, Jesus the) Christ, the second spiritual Person
C.(God the) Holy Spirit, the third spiritual Person
III.spoken of the only and true God (TRI-UNE GOD)
A.refers to the things of God
B.his counsels, interests, things due to him

My Words:
Explanation of the term: "eternal(spiritual)life":
Gained by having a spiritual relationship with the remaining genuine Person of God the Father in the heavenly realms:
the Godhead:
AND especially with Jesus the Christ, God the Son, the Divine Messiah SENT from heaven to save Mankind on earth by God the Father

God the Father's "way" TO Him

John 14:6

Jesus said to him, (Doubtful Thomas)

“I AM
the WAY, and ( Greek 3598...hodos...manner of thinking, feeling, deciding (soul)
the TRUTH, and (Greek 225....aletheia...what is true in things appertaining to God and the duties of man (spiritually)
the LIFE; (Greek 2222....zoe.... absolute fulness of (spiritual) life...which belongs to God,

no one comes to the Father but THROUGH Me.

Colossians 2 ....
9 For in Him (JESUS) all the fullness of Deity (TRUE GOD) dwells in bodily form, (TRUE MAN)
10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;

Colossians 1 ....
18b...For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness (of Deity) to dwell in Him,

QUESTIONS:
1. Does the term "the only true God".destroy the many verses supporting the true doctrine of the TRI-UNE GOD?
2. What verses support the true doctrine of the TRI-UNE GOD?
3. What verses DO NOT support the true doctrine of the TRI-UNE GOD?

Thanks for posting this. It seems that every thread that talks about the Trinity either gets shut down or deleted.

I feel like people need a place to talk about it because in the thread that I've seen, people have all different understandings of God, the Father, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, the Trinity, YHWH, and everything to do with the Trinity.

Now, to answer your questions:
1. No, the term "the only true God" does not destroy the many verses supporting the true doctrine of the triune God. All it does is affirm that the Father is the true God. It does not mean that Jesus or the Holy Spirit are not also the one true God.

2. Tons -- here are some of them
Romans 9:1-5, especially verse 5 (shows Jesus' deity)
John 1:1-18 (shows that there are at least two Persons who are God, and it shows Jesus' full deity)
John 8:24, 28, 58-59 with Exodus 3:6, 13-15 (shows that both the Father and Jesus are the I AM of the OT).
Isaiah 45 with Philippians 2:1-11 (In Isaiah it is YHWH who is speaking about Himself, and then it seems that in Philippians a very similar thing is applied to Jesus. To me this suggests that Jesus is also YHWH.)
Deuteronomy 32:39 with Isaiah 43:10-13 with John 10:24-33 (those two passages from the OT remind me of what Jesus says there in John 10, and the passages from the OT seem to make the "I and the Father are one" claim to be stronger. YHWH was speaking in the OT passages, so this to me strongly suggests that both the Father, and Jesus are the one God, YHWH.)
Isaiah 41:4 with Isaiah 48:12-16 (YHWH is the first and last, at the end of Isaiah 48:16 we have a mention of the Holy Spirit as well, and it sounds like both the Holy Spirit and YHWH are being sent -- which means that there have to be at least 3 Persons who are YHWH)
Isaiah 63:7-14 (mentions the Holy Spirit being grieved, and it certainly sounds like the Holy Spirit is God here. Here it also calls God Father, so there are at least two Persons who are YHWH.)
Colossians 2:9 (shows Jesus is fully God)
2 Peter 1:1 (calls Jesus Savior, which some passages in Isaiah have YHWH saying that He is the only Savior, also calls Jesus God).
Titus 2:11-14 (again, Jesus is called both God and Savior, establishing Jesus' deity)
Deuteronomy 6:4, (along with passages from Isaiah show that there is only one God)
Hebrews 1:5-14 (shows that Jesus is YHWH as well as the Father. Some OT passages that had applied to God are also applied to Jesus. Look especially at verses 10-12. Compare that with Psalm 102:25.)
Revelation 1:1 with Revelation 1:8, 17-18, 2:8, 21:6, 22:12-13, 16-20 (compare those with several passages in Isaiah where YHWH is the first and the last, beginning and the end. The Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all mentioned in Revelation.)
Matthew 28:19 -- all three Persons are mentioned together
Zechariah 12:10 (In the NASB there are two Persons who are YHWH there. Pronouns change from Me to Him in the same verse, suggesting at least two Persons are YHWH.)
Acts 5:1-11 (shows that the Holy Spirit is God -- lying to the Holy Spirit is the same as lying to God)

If you read through all four Gospels, it is clear that Jesus isn't the Father, and Jesus isn't the Holy Spirit. The Father isn't Jesus, and the Father isn't the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit isn't Jesus, and the Holy Spirit isn't the Father. So, we have clearly 3 Persons. However, there can only be one God because that is what the Bible declares. So, all three Persons must be the one God, and God (YHWH) must be triune.

There are other verses that could be used, but I'm not feeling well tonight, and this is all I can type up right now. I'm sure other people can give you more Scripture.

3. What verses don't support the Trinity? Well, you could use some of the same verses I quoted in support of the Trinity to try to disprove it -- if you interpreted them in isolation. For example, you could use Deuteronomy 6:4 and claim that there is only one God, and there can only be one Person who is God. You could take the verses from Isaiah and then conclude that only the Father is YHWH, and then claim Jesus can't be because a person doesn't understand what the Trinity actually is. I'm sorry, I just don't feel very well right now

SkyWriting · Sep 20, 2017

Ron Gurley said:
2. What verses support the true doctrine of the TRI-UNE GOD?
3. What verses DO NOT support the true doctrine of the TRI-UNE GOD?

No verses support the "Trinity."
Just as no mention is ever made of the "10 commandments."
It exists but is not named like we like to name things.

Ron Gurley · Sep 20, 2017

2. What verses support the true doctrine of the TRI-UNE GOD?.

TRI-UNE GOD TRUTHS/DOCTRINE REVEALED!

God the Son, Jesus the God-Man is not the SAME as/IDENTICAL to God the Father,
nor is God the Son, Jesus the God-Man the SAME as/ IDENTICAL to God the Holy Spirit.
The spiritual Persons of the "Godhead" are discerned has having different
RANKS, ROLES, MISSIONS, FUNCTIONS, NAMES, etc.
No one Person of the "Godhead" is identical to / the same as / "equal" to the other
>>>EXCEPT<<< in THEIR unity of "spiritual essence" AND divine nature. (1 Cor.12:13)

The TRI-UNE GOD is ONE GOD unified in spiritual essence and nature and character.(the Godhead)
1. "The Father and I (Jesus) are ONE" (JOHN 10)...in spiritual essence AND nature ONLY!...
2. But discerned as different spiritual Persons of the TRI-UNE GOD in RANK, ROLE, FUNCTIONS, NAMES, etc

In many ROLES / FUNCTIONS, God the Father RANKS ABOVE both God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

For example:

Genesis 1:26-28 (ALL NASB)...ALLOWS for a PLURAL GOD
26 Then God (Elohim - plural - pre-existent one) said,
“Let Us make man in Our (spiritual) image, according to Our (character?) likeness;

Mattthew 3: 16-17: The Beginning of Jesus' Ministry
As soon as Jesus (God the Son) was baptized, he went up out of the water.
At that moment "heaven was opened", and he (john the Baptizer + witnesses) saw the Spirit of God (God the Holy Spirit) descending like (in the form of) a dove and lighting on Him. (God the Son)
And a voice (God the Father) from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."

Mark 9:7...The Transfiguration: Jesus' Deity partially revealed to 3
Then a cloud (God the Holy Spirit) formed, overshadowing them,(God the Son, Jesus +3)
and a voice (God the Father) came out of the cloud,
“This is My beloved Son, listen to Him!”

John 14:26 (NIV)...a new promise by Jesus...a snapshot of the TRI-UNE God
"When the Counselor (God the Holy Spirit) comes,
whom I (God the Son/Jesus) will send to you from the Father (God the Father),
the Spirit of TRUTH (God the Holy Spirit) who goes out from the Father (God the Father),
he (the Spirit of TRUTH) will testify (to the spirit of Man) about me. (God the Son/Jesus)

John 14:26(NASB)...One Role of God the Holy Spirit
26 But the Helper, (God) the Holy Spirit,
whom (God) the Father will send in My name,
He will teach you all things, and
bring to your remembrance all that I (God the Son) said (AND did!) to you.(PERFECT SPIRITUAL RECALL!)

Matthew 28: 18 - The End of the Ministry - Post Resurrection and Pre-Ascension... The Great Commisssion
Then Jesus came to them (11 disciples) and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore
a. go and
b. make disciples of all nations,(convert to believers)
c. baptizing them (saved believers) in the name
of (God) the Father and
of (God) the Son and
of (God) the Holy Spirit,
and d. teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.
And surely I am with you always (spiritually), to the very "end of the age".(of Grace/"CHURCH")

Colossians 2 :8-9
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority.

Colossians 1 :15-19
For God was pleased to have all his fullness (of the Deity) dwell in Him,
and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven,
by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross

Phillipians 2...The Kenosis...Diety poured out into perfect flesh without loss or change in Deity

Romans 15:30 (NIV)...in prayer
I urge you, brothers, by our Lord Jesus Christ (God the Son/Jesus)
and by the love of the Spirit (God the Holy Spirit), to join me in my struggle
by praying to God (God the Father) for me.

2 Corinthians 13:14 (NIV)...in goodbyes
May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ (God the Son/Jesus) ,
and the love of God (God the Father),
and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit (God the Holy Spirit) be with you all.

Ron Gurley · Sep 20, 2017

3. What verses DO NOT support the true doctrine of the TRI-UNE GOD?.

PERHAPS?:

Deuteronomy 6:4(NASB)
4 “Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one!

The LORD...Hebrew 3068...Yĕhovah (YHWH)...
(the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jeho-vah, Jewish national name of God:—Jehovah, the LORD

is our God...Hebrew 430...'elohiym (elohim)...
II.(PLURAL intensive - singular meaning)
D.the (true) God
E.God

is one...Hebrew 259...'echad...I.one (number);
C.a certain

OT names/titles of "GOD".

Back to basics:

Exodus 3:13-15 (NASB)
Then Moses said to God,
“Behold, I am going to the sons of Israel, and I will say to them,
‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you.’
Now they may say to me, ‘What is His name?’ What shall I say to them?”
God said to Moses,
“I AM WHO I AM”;
and He said,
“Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘"I AM" has sent me to you.’”
God, furthermore, said to Moses,
“Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel,
‘The LORD, the God of your fathers,
the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’
This is My name ("I AM") forever,
and this is My memorial-name to all generations.

to God,...Hebrew 430...'elohiym (elohim)....
II.(plural intensive - singular meaning)...D.the (true) God

“I AM"...Hebrew 1961...hayah...to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen...

These are the NAMES/TITLES of "GOD" mainly in the OT of the Bible which refect His "meaning" and nature.

A. Jehovah = ~YHWH = ~" I AM WHO I AM " = ~LORD (all caps) = ~GOD = Self Existent
(e.g. Exodus 3:14; John 8:58; Hebrews 1:8)

B. Elohim = plural name: majestic and strong = (e.g. Genesis 1:26...Then God said, "Let US make man in OUR (spiritual) image, in OUR (character?) likeness..."

C. Adonai = ~LORD (all caps) = ~Master
(e.g. Gen. 2:4 ...the LORD God made the earth... John 13:13 "You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and rightly so, for that is what I am.
Matthew 22:44 " 'The LORD said to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet."

D. "El" = ~GOD = Compound names, showing characteristics
1. El Elyon = most high = strongest
2. El Roi = strong see-er
3. El Shaddai = Almighty God
4. El Olam = Everlasting God

E. "Jehovah (J.) " = ~GOD = Compound names, showing characteristics
1. J. Jireh = LORD will provide
2. J. Nissi = LORD my banner
3. J. Shalom = LORD is peace
4. J. Sabbaoth = LORD of hosts
5. J. Maccaddeshcem = LORD your sanctifier
6. J. Raah = LORD my shepherd
7. J. Tsidkenu = LORD our righteousness
8. J. El Gmolah = LORD GOD of recompense
9. J. Nakeh = LORD who smites
10. J. Shammah = LORD who is present

These are the ATTRIBUTES and CHARACTER of "GOD" of the Bible and spirit-led writings
which refect His "meaning" and nature and SPIRITUAL essence.

1. Existent (Spirit Being)
2. Unified (not in different parts)
3. Simple...Holy...Righteous...perfectly Good...pure
4. Infinite (no Beginning, no End)
5. Eternal (beyond limits of time and space)
6. Unchanging and unchangeable CHARACTER (immutable)
7. All Present (spiritually everywhere and available)...omnipresent
8. All Sovereign (rules over/in complete control of {as He directs all things vs. all}
9. All Knowing (Omniscience...perfect wisdom)
10.All powerful (Omnipotence...God Almighty)
11.Perfectly JUST (fairness in His JUDGMENT of ALL SPIRITS)
12.Perfectly LOVING / Merciful (God IS Love;undeserved help for the afflicted)
13.Perfectly TRUE / Truthful (always truth-telling, inerrant)
14.Perfectly FREE (from sin and unrestricted power)
15.Perfectly Separate (to mark off from others by boundaries)

The NT names/titles of "God"...ONLY TWO!

Matthew 5:48...Jesus: Sermon on the Mount
“Therefore you "are to be" perfect (mature), as your heavenly Father is perfect.(Holy,without sin)

Father...Greek 3962...patēr...
III.God is called the Father
A.of the stars, the heavenly luminaries, because He is their creator, upholder, ruler
B.of all rational and intelligent beings, whether angels or men, because He is their creator, preserver, guardian and protector i.of spiritual beings and of all men
C.of Christians, as those who through Christ have been exalted to a specially close and intimate relationship with God,
and who no longer dread Him as a stern judge of sinners, but revere Him as their reconciled and loving Father
D.the Father of Jesus Christ, as one whom God has united to himself in the closest bond of love and intimacy, made acquainted with his purposes,
appointed to explain and carry out among men the plan of salvation,
and made to share also in His own divine nature

Matthew 3:16-17
After being baptized, Jesus (God the Son) came up immediately from the water;
and behold, the heavens were opened,
and he (John the Baptizer + witnesses) saw the Spirit of God (God the Holy Spirit)
descending as a (form of) dove and lighting on Him,
and behold, a voice out of the heavens (God the Father) said,
“This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.”

of God...Greek 2316...theos...
II.the Godhead, (TRI-UNE)
A.God the Father, the first spiritual Person
B.(God the Son, Jesus the Divine) Christ,(Messiah) the second spiritual Person
C.(God) Holy Spirit, the third spiritual Person
III.spoken of the only and true God

Baby Cottontail · Sep 21, 2017

Ron Gurley said:
3. What verses DO NOT support the true doctrine of the TRI-UNE GOD?.

PERHAPS?:

Deuteronomy 6:4(NASB)
4 “Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one!

The LORD...Hebrew 3068...Yĕhovah (YHWH)...
(the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jeho-vah, Jewish national name of God:—Jehovah, the LORD

is our God...Hebrew 430...'elohiym (elohim)...
II.(PLURAL intensive - singular meaning)
D.the (true) God
E.God

is one...Hebrew 259...'echad...I.one (number);
C.a certain

OT names/titles of "GOD".

Back to basics:

Exodus 3:13-15 (NASB)
Then Moses said to God,
“Behold, I am going to the sons of Israel, and I will say to them,
‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you.’
Now they may say to me, ‘What is His name?’ What shall I say to them?”
God said to Moses,
“I AM WHO I AM”;
and He said,
“Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘"I AM" has sent me to you.’”
God, furthermore, said to Moses,
“Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel,
‘The LORD, the God of your fathers,
the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’
This is My name ("I AM") forever,
and this is My memorial-name to all generations.

to God,...Hebrew 430...'elohiym (elohim)....
II.(plural intensive - singular meaning)...D.the (true) God

“I AM"...Hebrew 1961...hayah...to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen...

These are the NAMES/TITLES of "GOD" mainly in the OT of the Bible which refect His "meaning" and nature.

A. Jehovah = ~YHWH = ~" I AM WHO I AM " = ~LORD (all caps) = ~GOD = Self Existent
(e.g. Exodus 3:14; John 8:58; Hebrews 1:8)

B. Elohim = plural name: majestic and strong = (e.g. Genesis 1:26...Then God said, "Let US make man in OUR (spiritual) image, in OUR (character?) likeness..."

C. Adonai = ~LORD (all caps) = ~Master
(e.g. Gen. 2:4 ...the LORD God made the earth... John 13:13 "You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and rightly so, for that is what I am.
Matthew 22:44 " 'The LORD said to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet."

D. "El" = ~GOD = Compound names, showing characteristics
1. El Elyon = most high = strongest
2. El Roi = strong see-er
3. El Shaddai = Almighty God
4. El Olam = Everlasting God

E. "Jehovah (J.) " = ~GOD = Compound names, showing characteristics
1. J. Jireh = LORD will provide
2. J. Nissi = LORD my banner
3. J. Shalom = LORD is peace
4. J. Sabbaoth = LORD of hosts
5. J. Maccaddeshcem = LORD your sanctifier
6. J. Raah = LORD my shepherd
7. J. Tsidkenu = LORD our righteousness
8. J. El Gmolah = LORD GOD of recompense
9. J. Nakeh = LORD who smites
10. J. Shammah = LORD who is present

These are the ATTRIBUTES and CHARACTER of "GOD" of the Bible and spirit-led writings
which refect His "meaning" and nature and SPIRITUAL essence.

1. Existent (Spirit Being)
2. Unified (not in different parts)
3. Simple...Holy...Righteous...perfectly Good...pure
4. Infinite (no Beginning, no End)
5. Eternal (beyond limits of time and space)
6. Unchanging and unchangeable CHARACTER (immutable)
7. All Present (spiritually everywhere and available)...omnipresent
8. All Sovereign (rules over/in complete control of {as He directs all things vs. all}
9. All Knowing (Omniscience...perfect wisdom)
10.All powerful (Omnipotence...God Almighty)
11.Perfectly JUST (fairness in His JUDGMENT of ALL SPIRITS)
12.Perfectly LOVING / Merciful (God IS Love;undeserved help for the afflicted)
13.Perfectly TRUE / Truthful (always truth-telling, inerrant)
14.Perfectly FREE (from sin and unrestricted power)
15.Perfectly Separate (to mark off from others by boundaries)

The NT names/titles of "God"...ONLY TWO!

Matthew 5:48...Jesus: Sermon on the Mount
“Therefore you "are to be" perfect (mature), as your heavenly Father is perfect.(Holy,without sin)

Father...Greek 3962...patēr...
III.God is called the Father
A.of the stars, the heavenly luminaries, because He is their creator, upholder, ruler
B.of all rational and intelligent beings, whether angels or men, because He is their creator, preserver, guardian and protector i.of spiritual beings and of all men
C.of Christians, as those who through Christ have been exalted to a specially close and intimate relationship with God,
and who no longer dread Him as a stern judge of sinners, but revere Him as their reconciled and loving Father
D.the Father of Jesus Christ, as one whom God has united to himself in the closest bond of love and intimacy, made acquainted with his purposes,
appointed to explain and carry out among men the plan of salvation,
and made to share also in His own divine nature

Matthew 3:16-17
After being baptized, Jesus (God the Son) came up immediately from the water;
and behold, the heavens were opened,
and he (John the Baptizer + witnesses) saw the Spirit of God (God the Holy Spirit)
descending as a (form of) dove and lighting on Him,
and behold, a voice out of the heavens (God the Father) said,
“This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.”

of God...Greek 2316...theos...
II.the Godhead, (TRI-UNE)
A.God the Father, the first spiritual Person
B.(God the Son, Jesus the Divine) Christ,(Messiah) the second spiritual Person
C.(God) Holy Spirit, the third spiritual Person
III.spoken of the only and true God

I'm a bit confused by what you have written. Just to clarify....

Do you believe that YHWH is just the Father? Or do you believe that YHWH is the triune God? Do you believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are each YHWH?

Ron Gurley · Sep 21, 2017

Response to Post#7: Q: "Do you believe that YHWH is just (God) the Father?."

A: Yes. The Names/Titles of "God"
YHWH / Jehovah / LORD (all caps) (and many others!) appear only in the OT.

In the NT, God's Names/Titles are only two:
Father (pater)
God (theos)

Baby Cottontail · Sep 21, 2017

Ron Gurley said:
Response to Post#7: Q: "Do you believe that YHWH is just (God) the Father?."

A: Yes. The Names/Titles of "God"
YHWH / Jehovah / LORD (all caps) (and many others!) appear only in the OT.

In the NT, God's Names/Titles are only two:
Father (pater)
God (theos)

Okay, then you believe that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are separate Gods from YHWH? Or do you see YHWH as simply a name for the Father, and somehow the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are still one God?

And you don't believe that Jesus or the Holy Spirit are in the OT?

Is it your understanding of Trinitarian teaching that only the Father is YHWH?

Do you consider yourself to be a Trinitarian?

What does it mean for you if God is Triune?

I'm trying to understand your viewpoint because it seems to differ from mine.

Ron Gurley · Sep 21, 2017

Response to ALL of Post #9's questions:

I repeat:

The TRI-UNE GOD is ONE GOD unified in spiritual essence and nature and character.(the Godhead)
1. "The Father and I (Jesus) are ONE" (JOHN 10)...in spiritual essence AND nature ONLY!...
2. But discerned as different spiritual Persons of the TRI-UNE GOD in RANK, ROLE, FUNCTIONS, NAMES, etc

In many ROLES / FUNCTIONS, God the Father RANKS ABOVE both God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

Ron Gurley · Sep 21, 2017

"Do you consider yourself to be a Trinitarian?"

What is a "Trinitarian"? The "trinity" is a useless and man-made word for the mysterious true doctrine of the TRI-UNE GOD supported by Scripture.

Ron Gurley · Sep 21, 2017

This is ONE NAME/TITLE of "GOD" found ONLY in the OT of the Bible which refect His "meaning" and nature.

A. Jehovah = ~YHWH = ~" I AM WHO I AM " = ~LORD (all caps) = ~GOD = Self Existent
(e.g. Exodus 3:14; John 8:58; Hebrews 1:8)

Ron Gurley · Sep 21, 2017

Sorry Baby Cottontail . No more answers to your repetitious questions,

Baby Cottontail · Sep 21, 2017

Ron Gurley said:
"Do you consider yourself to be a Trinitarian?"

What is a "Trinitarian"? The "trinity" is a useless and man-made word for the mysterious true doctrine of the TRI-UNE GOD supported by Scripture.

A trinitarian is someone who claims to believe in the doctrine of the trinity.

Okay -- so you think that the doctrine of the trinity is different from what you believe to be the "true doctrine of the tri-une God supported by Scripture?"

What do you see as differences between the two viewpoints?

Baby Cottontail · Sep 21, 2017

Ron Gurley said:
Sorry Baby Cottontail . No more answers to your repetitious questions,

I'm just asking you to clarify what you've said. I am sorry if it seems repetitive. Would you like me to leave the thread then? I'm looking for a discussion about the trinity with you or whomever else wants to discuss it.

But if you would rather just state what you believe, and not have a discussion, fine.

John 17: 1-5 (NASB): EXPLAINED

What U See is What U Get!

1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith

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