Ladies who won't date men who drink, even on occasion

Grandpa2390

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I'm not Christian and I don't believe drinking is wrong, but to be fair, it's all on the same spectrum. One drink doesn't make you drunk, sure, but it does have the same effects on a smaller scale. I wouldn't take a shot and then use a chainsaw.

The disagreement boils down to what level of intentional incapacitation you think is moral. To some people, it's never moral.

THIS!!!

Sober in what sense?

sober

[soh-ber]

adjective, soberer, soberest.
1.
not intoxicated or drunk.
2.
habitually temperate, especially in the use of liquor.
3.
quiet or sedate in demeanor, as persons.
4.
marked by seriousness, gravity, solemnity, etc., as of demeanor, speech, etc.:
a sober occasion.
5.
subdued in tone, as color; not colorful or showy, as clothes.
6.
free from excess, extravagance, or exaggeration:
sober facts.
7.
showing self-control:
sober restraint.

the definition of sober

you are using the wrong dictionary. You need to use a dictionary for the word translated to sober. Not saying that will change your original argument, but this argument is flawed.
 
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Grandpa2390

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1 Timothy 5:23. Sorry for the delay; you're mocking and attacking me on several threads all at once trying to keep up.

I am not mocking anyone. I am having a discussion. Quit taking it so personally.

To continue the DISCUSSION about 1 Tim 5:23 (NIV)

23 Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.

I read this verse to say that we should be drinking wine with every meal to aid in digestion to to destroy toxins that may be in the food ... and that it might improve the reader's health.

You're both wrong (though I may be misunderstanding your point blackribbon. It is not about the permission to get intoxicated for medicinal purposes or health purposes. It is about the antiseptic nature of fermenting wine. If you are in a third world country and don't have access to clean water. then for your stomach's sake you can try adding some fermenting wine to your water (how much I have no clue. In those days it was mostly mostly water to wine)
They are even considering bottling fermenting wine as a natural disinfectant.

But here in America we have access to clean water except in very rare circumstances. And if you can afford to buy wine for lack of clean water, then you can afford to buy bottled water. I can get 60 liters of water for the cost of a small bottle of wine.

Proverbs 31:6-7 is the verse you are looking for concerning medicinal use.
I see its use here as a painkiller and an anti-depressant ;)
 
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blackribbon

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You're both wrong (though I may be misunderstanding your point blackribbon. It is not about the permission to get intoxicated for medicinal purposes or health purposes. It is about the antiseptic nature of fermenting wine. If you are in a third world country and don't have access to clean water. then for your stomach's sake you can try adding some fermenting wine to your water (how much I have no clue. In those days it was mostly mostly water to wine)
They are even considering bottling fermenting wine as a natural disinfectant.

But here in America we have access to clean water except in very rare circumstances. And if you can afford to buy wine for lack of clean water, then you can afford to buy bottled water. I can get 60 liters of water for the cost of a small bottle of wine.

Proverbs 31:6-7 is the verse you are looking for concerning medicinal use.
I see its use here as a painkiller and an anti-depressant ;)

Red wine is also good for the heart in moderation. It also helps break down the proteins in a meal so it works as a digestive aid. Soda has zero nutrition value. However, yes, in our world we do have access safe food and water sources. However, the Bible is for all people...not just people who have clean inexpensive water.

Using alcohol as an antidepressant is highly discouraged in modern medicine even though the verse does say to use it in extreme times of grief. In truth, that would be considered a very poor coping skill. Honestly, we have to use the brain God gave us when reading the Bible. I believe it is all truth but some of these letters are written to specific churches and people for the situations they are living in...and maybe it isn't a universal law for being a "good Christian".

I do not think the Bible ever says it is a sin to drink alcohol. The sin is to get drunk. The truth is that I usually drink less than 2 glasses of alcohol a year...but because I do drink so I am not a teetotaler. It isn't a religious decision. It is a dietary choice.

If someone has a personal religion reason to not drink, then they should not drink or marry people who do. I'd have less respect for the person this person if they did drink or did date someone who did drink....not because alcohol is bad but more because the person would have shown that they are weak in their commitments.
 
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Grandpa2390

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Red wine is also good for the heart in moderation. It also helps break down the proteins in a meal so it works as a digestive aid. Soda has zero nutrition value. However, yes, in our world we do have access safe food and water sources. However, the Bible is for all people...not just people who have clean inexpensive water.
yes red wine is good for the heart and so forth. I agreed with you. but it is not fabulous. There are many foods that are much better for the heart. If you are claiming that you are drinking it for the health benefits, you are just reminding me of characters who put olives in the martini (for the vitamins).

The Bible is for all people. Which is why I said if you are in a third world country or something and do not have access to clean water, I would certainly understand adding a bit of wine to the water. The point is that You can't argue that you are drinking it out of necessity and the wonderful benefits you can only get from red wine if you are living in the first world.

Make sure you are responding to what I said and not just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Using alcohol as an antidepressant is highly discouraged in modern medicine even though the verse does say to use it in extreme times of grief. In truth, that would be considered a very poor coping skill. Honestly, we have to use the brain God gave us when reading the Bible. I believe it is all truth but some of these letters are written to specific churches and people for the situations they are living in...and maybe it isn't a universal law for being a "good Christian".
It was the best they had available at the time. Just like getting a person wasted before performing an amputation.
Or just like rinsing your hands in running water to wash them after contact with a dead body. In a world absent of soap, it was the best they could do and better than nothing.
I told you that modern science has allowed us to create better alternatives to alcohol in its use as a painkiller and anti-depressant.

I do not think the Bible ever says it is a sin to drink alcohol. The sin is to get drunk. The truth is that I usually drink less than 2 glasses of alcohol a year...but because I do drink so I am not a teetotaler. It isn't a religious decision. It is a dietary choice.
Once again, you need to read what people say and not just argue just to argue. Most of us here (myself most importantly since you are responding to me) admit that drinking alcohol is not a sin. What I argued is that it was unwise and unnecessary.
Don't tell me you are drinking wine for its benefits because they are minor. Just admit that you like wine. no need for grasp for straws to justify to yourself why you drink something you enjoy drinking. Not if you are doing it responsibly and according to Christian principles.
Which I am sure you are :)

If someone has a personal religion reason to not drink, then they should not drink or marry people who do. I'd have less respect for the person this person if they did drink or did date someone who did drink....not because alcohol is bad but more because the person would have shown that they are weak in their commitments.
agree.

and please, if you respond, remember that I do not believe you are in error/sin to have a glass of wine every so often. Only Drunkenness is considered a sin according to the Good Book.
But I do not think it wise for a Christian, or necessary for someone with access to clean water and modern pain-killers.
I myself enjoy a nice glass of Welch's Sparkling Grape Juice. (for the vitamins) :)
 
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blackribbon

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Make sure you are responding to what I said and not just arguing for the sake of arguing.

I actually was attempting to stay on topic and not just address your arguments because those are the rules of this discussion forum. Just because I don't agree with you does not mean I am arguing for the sake of arguing. But back to the OP, it is okay if a woman or a man doesn't want to date someone who drinks even occasionally. No different than if any man or woman only wants to date a person with curly hair. It just limits their options but shouldn't bother you.
 
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ThisIsMe123

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of course, as a nurse, you know we have better alternatives today :)

True...I was talking to a jewelry vendor that I know. He's a Christian and he's suffered a serious back injury and was in pain a lot. Doctors always kept prescribing pain meds ...and even I think Doctors kind of over do it by liberally giving out drugs to patience that don't necessarily need them.

I used a Christian analogy, " Hey, that's a cross to bear" lol
 
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Grandpa2390

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I actually was attempting to stay on topic and not just address your arguments because those are the rules of this discussion forum. Just because I don't agree with you does not mean I am arguing for the sake of arguing.

No don't try and pull that. "I was just trying to stay on topic" because
1) You're not on Topic
2) Your response which is "on topic" was attacking a strawman. Because as I and many people have stated. We don't disagree on you with the parts you argue with us about.
The response goes like this: "I agree with you about A, but Not B"
Since you can't defend B, You pretend that we disagree with you about A and argue with us over that.


Are you sinning with your glass of wine, I wouldn't say so. So don't think I am attacking you on that.
and your response:
I do not think the Bible ever says it is a sin to drink alcohol. The sin is to get drunk.

and another A

You tout the benefits of red wine

I say yes there are benefits to drinking red wine but they aren't so special that a well-rounded diet wouldn't give you the same benefits plus more of them.

You respond by saying in essence
I am wrong that red wine is good because it has many benefits.
I mean we can go in a circle for eternity. with me agreeing with you and you disagreeing with me.

You argue A
I agree with A
You claim I disagree with A and argue A again.

We could do this forever if that's what you want. Argue just to argue. But I choose not to.

P.S. the health benefits of soda The surprising health benefits of drinking Coca Cola
see I can do it too :D
 
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Grandpa2390

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True...I was talking to a jewelry vendor that I know. He's a Christian and he's suffered a serious back injury and was in pain a lot. Doctors always kept prescribing pain meds ...and even I think Doctors kind of over do it by liberally giving out drugs to patience that don't necessarily need them.

I used a Christian analogy, " Hey, that's a cross to bear" lol

I agree. What's worse is when people get addicted and go back to get drugs that they don't need at all. Faking pain to get drugs.
 
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blackribbon

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MehGuy

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If the Bible says you can drink when you are facing heavy grief. Then it seems to allow being drunk, at least in some context. Also at weddings too.. then again maybe that's the same context.. lol.
 
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Grandpa2390

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Proof that you'd rather argue than be right. Lots of wrong information in your article. And I said no benefit nutritionally.

Bwahahaha. Completely missed the point. As usual.

You know I accuse you of arguing just to argue. I thought that perhaps you were just willingly ignorant. Refusing to acknowledge arguments that disagree with you and attacking strawmen to comfort yourself.
But perhaps it goes deeper than that. Maybe you just lack comprehension skills ;) and require a bit of comfort. I apologize for my insensitivity to your needs.

I don't need to argue. I know I am right. and if you were more interested in discussion than argument, you would see how often people actually agree with you, but you attack them as if they didn't.
What is the point that you are trying to prove at this point? I think you lost it in your need to argue for the sake of arguing.
Don't worry about it; it's over your head. At this point, I guess it is safe to say that you will continue on through life with what you think now, and are not interested in hearing anything, and will argue with everyone, including those who are on your side.
 
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blackribbon

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Bwahahaha. Completely missed the point. As usual.

You know I accuse you of arguing just to argue. I thought that perhaps you were just willingly ignorant. Refusing to acknowledge arguments that disagree with you and attacking strawmen to comfort yourself.
But perhaps it goes deeper than that. Maybe you just lack comprehension skills ;)

Don't worry about it; I am right, and it's over your head.

Most people don't have any problems with my communication skills. However, if you really believe I lack the ability to understand your arguments, then you are just cruel to constantly argue with me. However, from my vantage, it seems like you sidestep any discussion that isn't going your way. Just because I don't agree or you can't follow my logic, does not mean I am using strawmen. I don't jump topics like you seem to and I don't attack people personally.

However, since this thread is about whether or not Christians can drink or choose not to, I am done with your tangents.
 
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Grandpa2390

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Most people don't have any problems with my communication skills. However, if you really believe I lack the ability to understand your arguments, then you are just cruel to constantly argue with me.
I edited my post to acknowledge and apologize for my lack of sensitivity and comfort for your needs.

However, from my vantage, it seems like you sidestep any discussion that isn't going your way. Just because I don't agree or you can't follow my logic, does not mean I am using strawmen. I don't jump topics like you seem to and I don't attack people personally.

Examples?
because you see you are projecting, I do not sidestep anything. I addressed everything you said. Sidestepping is what you are best at. Sidestepping discussions that you don't agree with. distracting away from arguments you can't defend by attacking strawmen.
handwaving my "sidestepping" aside because it "isn't on topic"
 
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Grandpa2390

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I don't jump topics like you seem to and I don't attack people personally.
yes you do. If you think we are off-topic, I only responded to your posts. So you jumped topics. Everything I responded with was very much relevant to the discussion.

And I read earlier posts and on other threads where you made personal attacks.

My attack isn't personal, it is acknowledgement that perhaps I am being to hard on you.
However, since this thread is about whether or not Christians can drink or choose not to, I am done with your tangents.
but that was the topic we were discussing when you sidestepped my response by saying we were off-topic.
 
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TheGirlOnFire

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I found that becoming a Christian I have taken less alcohol, I don't get drunk like really drunk may a bit merry and actually I don't drink as much anymore, though i do like a good whiskey or red wine, it does take me a lot to get drunk, so I can enjoy an evening without going down that road.

I have to say, if you've been through traumatic experience then you will have a tick list and deal breakers that may seem trivial to others or also may slightly seem OTT with scripture, but you can't take away that fear, God can heal it, he can change it but their also something there that you know it could happen again because God can't control people. Clearly, this guy isn't suited to her and not something that should be forced.
 
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