Which Great City should be considered Babylon?

W2L · Sep 18, 2017

LittleLambofJesus said:
Btw, does your church have the mind and wisdom to solve the book of Revelation? If so, bring it on.......

He didnt bring it.

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 18, 2017

Goatee said:
There are some that date it before 70AD.

That is true. But whether it was visioned before or after 70ad should be a moot point, imho. Just look at all the confusion back in church history and up to today concerning that divine book.
Egads!
I think it should have been the last book in the OT after Malachi.....

Book of Revelation - Wikipedia

The Book of Revelation, often called the Revelation to John, the Apocalypse of John, The Revelation, or simply Revelation or Apocalypse, is a book of the New Testament that occupies a central place in Christian eschatology.
Its title is derived from the first word of the text, written in Koine Greek: apokalypsis, meaning "unveiling" or "revelation" (before title pages and titles, books were commonly known by their first words, as is also the case of the Hebrew Five Books of Moses (Torah)).
The Book of Revelation is the only apocalyptic document in the New Testament canon (although there are short apocalyptic passages in various places in the Gospels and the Epistles)...........

Revelation has a wide variety of interpretations, ranging from the simple message that we should have faith that God will prevail ("symbolic interpretation"), to complex end time scenarios ("futurist interpretation"),[47][48] to the views of critics who deny any spiritual value to Revelation at all.[49]

Eschatological
Most Christian interpretations fall into one or more of the following categories:

Historicism, which sees in Revelation a broad view of history;
Preterism, in which Revelation mostly refers to the events of the apostolic era (1st century) or, at the latest, the fall of the Roman Empire;
Amillennialism, which contends that the millennium has already begun and is identical with the current church age;
Futurism, which believes that Revelation describes future events (modern believers in this interpretation are often called "millennialists"); and
Idealism/Allegoricalism, which holds that Revelation does not refer to actual people or events, but is an allegory of the spiritual path and the ongoing struggle between good and evil.

Genesis 1:1 (YLT)
Strong's Number G602 matches the Greek ἀποκάλυψις (apokalypsis), which occurs 18 times in 18 verses in the Greek concordance

1st time used:
Luk 2:32
a light for revelation to the Gentiles,
and for glory to your people Israel.”

Last time used
Rev 1:1
The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants[fn] the things that must soon take place.

Strong's Greek: 602. ἀποκάλυψις (apokalupsis) -- an uncovering

Strong's Concordance
apokalupsis: an uncovering
Original Word: ἀποκάλυψις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apokalupsis
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ok-al'-oop-sis)
Short Definition: an unveiling, uncovering, revealing
Definition: an unveiling, uncovering, revealing, revelation.

602 /apokálypsis ("revelation, unveiling") is principally used of the revelation of Jesus Christ (the Word), especially a particular (spiritual) manifestation of Christ (His will) previously unknown to the extent (because "veiled, covered").

Strong's Greek 602
18 Occurrences
ἀποκαλύψει — 5 Occ.
ἀποκαλύψεις — 1 Occ.
ἀποκαλύψεων — 1 Occ.
ἀποκαλύψεως — 3 Occ.
ἀποκάλυψιν — 7 Occ.
ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ — 1 Occ.

Traveling teacher · Sep 18, 2017

If we stick strictly to scripture without speculating...
The Bible only gives 2 cities that could be Babylon

1. Obviously the ancient city of Babylon
Which has been excavated outide of Babylon - Wikipedia
This is 60 miles from bagdad
And sodam hussain could view it outside his summer palace......
So you could make a point it is Bagdad

2. The only other city that is written in the Bible is in
Revelation 17-18. Called the great city
This seems to be a different city which is similiar to Sodom and Egypt has 7 hills........
The great city(acording to Johns terminology)
Where our Lord was crucified.......
Revelation 11:8

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 18, 2017

Traveling teacher said:
If we stick strictly to scripture without speculating...
The Bible only gives 2 cities that could be Babylon
1. Obviously the ancient city of Babylon
2. The only other city that is written in the Bible is in Revelation 17-18.
Where our Lord was crucified.......
Revelation 11:8

AMEN and good point.
I don't think Jesus was crucified in New York, LA, Rome, London or Timbuktu.

I remember this thread on the Eschatology board some time back concerning Sodom and Egypt being Jerusalem. However, Sodom is a city and Egypt is a country, which could signify Israel/Judea and Jerusalem.

Why Jerusalem is Mystically Called Sodom and Egypt
Why Jerusalem is Mystically Called Sodom and Egypt

Now, on to some more verses. Remember, think Hebrew/Jewish......

Ezekiel 38:19
"And in My jealously, in fire of rage of Me I speak, if not in that day, shall become a great earthquake on ground/land of Israel" [Revelation 16:18]

Haggai 2:6
That thus He says, Yahweh of Hosts:
Yet one little, she, and I am quaking/07493 ra`ash the heavens and the land,
and the sea, and the dry,[Hebrews 12:26]

Hebrews 12:26
Whose voice the land shakes then, now yet He has promised saying 'still once I shall be quaking/seiw <4579> (5719) not only the Land but also the Heaven. [Haggai 2:6/Ezek 38:19 Rev 16:18]

Reve 16:18
and became lightnings and thunders and voices/sounds and a great earthquake became, such-as not became since the men became upon the land, such proportion an earthquake/seismoV <4578> thus great. [Haggai 2:6/Ezekiel 38:19/Hebrews 12:26]

Revealing Times · Sep 18, 2017

Traveling teacher said:
If we stick strictly to scripture without speculating...
The Bible only gives 2 cities that could be Babylon

1. Obviously the ancient city of Babylon
Which has been excavated outide of Babylon - Wikipedia
This is 60 miles from bagdad
And sodam hussain could view it outside his summer palace......
So you could make a point it is Bagdad

It can not be Old Babylon because Scriptures say Babylon will never be inhabited again, so lets dump that idea straight away.

Traveling teacher said:
2. The only other city that is written in the Bible is in
Revelation 17-18. Called the great city
This seems to be a different city which is similiar to Sodom and Egypt has 7 hills........
The great city(acording to Johns terminology)
Where our Lord was crucified.......
Revelation 11:8

That Great City in Rev. 17:18 is not what people think it is. The Angel just revealed who the Beast and the Harlot that rides the Beast is, then at the very end he reminds John WHAT HE SAW !!!
Watch and I will show something the Lord revealed to me.

Rev. 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

What did John see? A VISION !! What was that Vision? Well the Vision is only four verses.

Rev. 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery (Comma), Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth. (Four Descriptors)

6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, AND with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration (This Really means to Marvel or to wonder).

So what did JOHN SEE as Rev. 17:18 refers us to what he SAW.......Well he saw a Harlot riding a Beast which means False Religion being a part of False Governance, but that is not what John is speaking about, he says it is that Great City !!!

Mystery is one Description of the Harlot, another is Mother of Harlots and yet another description is Abominations of the Earth. But the only Description with a City being referred to is she has Babylon the Great tattooed on her forehead. So that GREAT CITY that John SAW is very evident, its Babylon the Great. Revelation 17:1-2 is an Angel speaking to John about what he is about to show John. Revelation 17:7 is the Angel telling John hes going to explain the MYSTERY in the coming verses. Revelation 17:8-18 is the Angel explaining who/what the Mystery is of the Harlot and the Beast she rides. So the Vision only last for FOUR VERSES (3-6).

The Angel refers John back to what he saw in 17:18. So it is BABYLON THE GREAT.

Now that we have what the City is, we only have to look back to scripture to see that Babylon will never be a City again. And just as Isaiah 13:19-20 says, it will never be inhabited again !!

Isaiah 13:19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. 20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.

So what is Babylon? Well of course its a Metaphor, not a city !! When God judges the world or mankind do you think hes going to really just judge one city? Why did God use a city that was defunct as a Metaphor? If He used Rome then Rome would have attacked the Church even worse 2000 years ago. Its the same reason he used the "WOMAN" in chapter 12 in the place of Israel, if the scriptures showed God to be protecting Israel, whom Rome had just destroyed and dispersed around the world, then Rome would have seen that as sedition/treason.

God used Babylon on purpose, it is both the Head of the Statue in Daniel 2 and its the birthplace of False Religion. So the Harlot (False Religion) is shown as being co-mingled/riding the BACK of the Beast which Babylon is the Head of.

Babylon = False Governance

The Harlot = False Religion

Notice that the Kings kill the harlot off in Rev. 17:16? Why? What is different with the Last Beast or Anti-Christ and his 10 Kings? They desire for the Beast to be Worshiped as the ONLY GOD !! Thus they are going to wipe out all Religions (Harlot is Judged) and Islam thus will be wiped out.

Can you see Muslims who blow up people because they act differently from them, serving a MAN as God? LOL....No way. That is why this Anti-Christ is going to come after all Religions right off the bat, he is going to come after all of them at the same time he comes after the Martyrs (5th Seal) and at the same time the Jews Flee unto the Wilderness, during the SEALS (6th Chapter).

The Seals, Trumpets and Vials are going to effect the whole world, not one city. The Commerce of the whole world is going to be effected when a 1/3 of the Seas are turned to blood then all the seas are turned to blood and all the Sea Animals die, when a 1/3 of the ships are destroyed in the Trumpets, then all of the ships are destroyed in the vials. When a 1/3 of the trees and all of the grasses of the world are burned up, when a 1/4 on all men are killed during the Seals then a 1/3 of all men are killed during the 6th Trumpet.

This MIGHT EFFECT the Commerce of BABYLON (The World).

Babylon is the Kingdoms under Satan (god of this world). They will be Destroyed when Jesus the rock cut out of the Mountain SMASHES the Statue in Daniel ch. 2 and the Kingdom is give unto the Saints.

Goatee · Sep 18, 2017

Revealing Times said:
It can not be Old Babylon because Scriptures say Babylon will never be inhabited again, so lets dump that idea straight away.

That Great City in Rev. 17:18 is not what people think it is. The Angel just revealed who the Beast and the Harlot that rides the Beast is, then at the very end he reminds John WHAT HE SAW !!!
Watch and I will show something the Lord revealed to me.

Rev. 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

What did John see? A VISION !! What was that Vision? Well the Vision is only four verses.

Rev. 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery (Comma), Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth. (Four Descriptors)

6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, AND with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration (This Really means to Marvel or to wonder).

So what did JOHN SEE as Rev. 17:18 refers us to what he SAW.......Well he saw a Harlot riding a Beast which means False Religion being a part of False Governance, but that is not what John is speaking about, he says it is that Great City !!!

Mystery is one Description of the Harlot, another is Mother of Harlots and yet another description is Abominations of the Earth. But the only Description with a City being referred to is she has Babylon the Great tattooed on her forehead. So that GREAT CITY that John SAW is very evident, its Babylon the Great. Revelation 17:1-2 is an Angel speaking to John about what he is about to show John. Revelation 17:7 is the Angel telling John hes going to explain the MYSTERY in the coming verses. Revelation 17:8-18 is the Angel explaining who/what the Mystery is of the Harlot and the Beast she rides. So the Vision only last for FOUR VERSES (3-6).

The Angel refers John back to what he saw in 17:18. So it is BABYLON THE GREAT.

Now that we have what the City is, we only have to look back to scripture to see that Babylon will never be a City again. And just as Isaiah 13:19-20 says, it will never be inhabited again !!

Isaiah 13:19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. 20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.

So what is Babylon? Well of course its a Metaphor, not a city !! When God judges the world or mankind do you think hes going to really just judge one city? Why did God use a city that was defunct as a Metaphor? If He used Rome then Rome would have attacked the Church even worse 2000 years ago. Its the same reason he used the "WOMAN" in chapter 12 in the place of Israel, if the scriptures showed God to be protecting Israel, whom Rome had just destroyed and dispersed around the world, then Rome would have seen that as sedition/treason.

God used Babylon on purpose, it is both the Head of the Statue in Daniel 2 and its the birthplace of False Religion. So the Harlot (False Religion) is shown as being co-mingled/riding the BACK of the Beast which Babylon is the Head of.

Babylon = False Governance

The Harlot = False Religion

Notice that the Kings kill the harlot off in Rev. 17:16? Why? What is different with the Last Beast or Anti-Christ and his 10 Kings? They desire for the Beast to be Worshiped as the ONLY GOD !! Thus they are going to wipe out all Religions (Harlot is Judged) and Islam thus will be wiped out.

Can you see Muslims who blow up people because they act differently from them, serving a MAN as God? LOL....No way. That is why this Anti-Christ is going to come after all Religions right off the bat, he is going to come after all of them at the same time he comes after the Martyrs (5th Seal) and at the same time the Jews Flee unto the Wilderness, during the SEALS (6th Chapter).

The Seals, Trumpets and Vials are going to effect the whole world, not one city. The Commerce of the whole world is going to be effected when a 1/3 of the Seas are turned to blood then all the seas are turned to blood and all the Sea Animals die, when a 1/3 of the ships are destroyed in the Trumpets, then all of the ships are destroyed in the vials. When a 1/3 of the trees and all of the grasses of the world are burned up, when a 1/4 on all men are killed during the Seals then a 1/3 of all men are killed during the 6th Trumpet.

This MIGHT EFFECT the Commerce of BABYLON (The World).

Babylon is the Kingdoms under Satan (god of this world). They will be Destroyed when Jesus the rock cut out of the Mountain SMASHES the Statue in Daniel ch. 2 and the Kingdom is give unto the Saints.

Your interpretation!

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 18, 2017

Revealing Times said:
It can not be Old Babylon because Scriptures say Babylon will never be inhabited again, so lets dump that idea straight away.

Babylon = False Governance

The Harlot = False Religion

.

Judaism can be considered is a "false religion" today and Jerusalem is considered there "home base", minus the Temple, as they still deny Jesus is their Lord and Savior. These verses are interesting:

Gen 38:24
And it came to pass, about three months after, that Judah was told, saying, “Tamar your daughter-in-law has played the harlot; furthermore she is with child by harlotry.”
So Judah said, “Bring her out and let her be burned!”

Jer 3:8
“Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce;
yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also.
Hos 4:15
“Though you, Israel, play the harlot, Let not Judah offend.
Do not come up to Gilgal, Nor go up to Beth Aven,
Nor swear an oath, saying, ‘As the LORD lives'—
Hos 13:8
I will meet them like a bear deprived of her cubs;
I will tear open their rib cage,
And there I will devour them like a lion.
The wild beast shall tear them.

Rev 13:2
Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion.
The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority.

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

LUKE 16:
27 "Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house,
28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.' "

The fact that the rich man has five brothers is a vital clue to his true symbolic identity.
Judah, the progenitor of the Jews, was the son of Jacob through Leah (Gen. 29:35).
He had five full-blooded brothers: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, and Zebulun (Gen. 35:23).

While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Yeshua was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who he was referring to with this parable.
This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the House of Judah, the Jews!

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 18, 2017

Monk Brendan said: ↑
Let's use a little bit of common sense, okay?

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
Btw, does your church have the mind and wisdom to solve the book of Revelation? If so, bring it on.......

W2L said:
He didnt bring it.

I am patient....
Which leads me to ask that if an individual Christian interprets the Bible, does it mean their particular denomination holds to the same interpretation, or is it their own personal view?

Lee Stuvmen · Sep 18, 2017

In order to be "Great City Babylon" it would have to meet ALL QUALIFIERS listed in Revelation 17 and 18.

Not one, not three, but ALL qualifiers.

But what does one do when NO "city" on the face of the earth MEETS ALL QUALIFIERS?

We realize that Revelation 17 and 18 are using "Symbolic" terminology.

The "Harlot" is not a single woman prostitute, but "represents" something.

The 10 horns are not actual horns, but "represent" 10 kings
Revelation 17:12
And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

And so too is this "city" NOT AN ACTUAL singular CITY, but "represents" something.

Scripture provides the correct translation of the "symbolic" word city.

Zechariah 8:3
Thus saith the Lord; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem:

and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain(kingdom) of the Lord of hosts the holy mountain.(kingdom)

shall be called a city
and the mountain
the holy mountain

City =MOUNTAIN
Mountain = KINGDOM
holy Mountain = HOLY KINGDOM of the Lord of hosts

Great CITY Babylon is actually GREAT NATION BABYLON

Who is the world's largest consumer of goods
Revelation 18:11
And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

All those goods arrive by ship
Revelation 18:19
And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

Tutorman · Sep 18, 2017

Goatee said:
There are some that date it before 70AD.

Exactly

Traveling teacher · Sep 18, 2017

According to revelation Babylon is a great city.....yes it has a religous sytem. Political system........
But it is still a city not just an idea........

I will repeat the verse of the great city
Revelation 11:8
Specifically refers to Jerusalem.....
While some of the riches.....are not yet fulfilled
It is surounded by 7 hills and the 2 prophets die there....

Revealing Times · Sep 18, 2017

LittleLambofJesus said:
Judaism can be considered is a "false religion" today and Jerusalem is considered there "home base", minus the Temple, as they still deny Jesus is their Lord and Savior. These verses are interesting:

Judaism is a FALSE RELIGION, as is Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Witchcraft, and some Christian Churches etc. etc. etc. But Israel turns to God before the Abomination of Desolation according to Malachi 4:5-6 and Zechariah 12:10, Zechariah 13:1. So the point though valid, becomes moot after they repent as a Nation. Still according to Zechariaah 2/3 of the Jews will be killed and a 1/3 saved probably in Petra, they are the ones who flee as Jesus warned them to do. I Guess some chose to stay in Jerusalem, and there are some can not make it to Israel. Nevertheless ALL ISRAEL are Saved, meaning Israel as a Nation is preserved, just like God promised Abraham, it doesn't mean every Jew is saved.

LittleLambofJesus said:
Gen 38:24
And it came to pass, about three months after, that Judah was told, saying, “Tamar your daughter-in-law has played the harlot; furthermore she is with child by harlotry.”
So Judah said, “Bring her out and let her be burned!”

Jer 3:8
“Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce;
yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also.
Hos 4:15
“Though you, Israel, play the harlot, Let not Judah offend.
Do not come up to Gilgal, Nor go up to Beth Aven,
Nor swear an oath, saying, ‘As the LORD lives'—
Hos 13:8
I will meet them like a bear deprived of her cubs;
I will tear open their rib cage,
And there I will devour them like a lion.
The wild beast shall tear them.

Once again brother, all of these scriptures point to facts we already know. Israel, Judah, the Hebrews and Jews all rejected God, we understand that thus they had a 70 Week Decree placed upon them, which prophesied that by the time the 70th week was finished Israel will have REPENTED. So what they did is irrelevant. Just as we were once sinners it is irrelevant. We are now in Christ, just as they will be in Christ, so scriptures that point to their back-sliding only points to facts we all know, thus we had 2000 years of the Church Age, God chose another to deliver His message to the world.

We need to point out all the scriptures, the ones that point unto Israel repenting BEFORE the Abomination of Desolation.

LittleLambofJesus said:
Rev 13:2
Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion.
The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority.

You overlooked the other 2 Beasts of Daniel mentioned here. The Beast Head with a Mortal Wound (ROME) and the Beast Head that gets Healed (Little Horn).

Goatee said:
Your interpretation!

Being a preacher for 30 years, called specifically to Prophecy, it is not my interpretation. I know the difference between MY THOUGHTS and Revelation from God via the Holy Spirit. I wrote a BLOG about 2 Years ago saying ROME was that City, that was MY INTERPRETATION, which I studied on a year or so. Within a couple of months the Holy Spirit was like hey Ron, you know that blog you wrote that said the City was ROME? Well you were wrong. Rewrite it because it was Babylon, notice the BIG NAME IMPRINTED on her Head? That's what I meant.

So I do know the difference brother. If I had pride I would not have heard the "YOU ARE WRONG Part". Too many people will not change their opinions and so God can not reveal things to those types.

In Vial #6 the Nations are Gathered against God at Armageddon. In Vial #7 Jesus splits Mt. Zion and then defeats THE NATIONS (The nations fell) and God SPECIFICALLY STATES He sees them as BABYLON !! It can not get any clearer than that.

Rev. 16:19 And the great city (Jerusalem/Earthquake/Jesus) was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell (Who were GATHERED? Vial #6 ): and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

God sees the NATIONS of the WORLD as Babylon......I am putting it together for you. Who fought against God at Armageddon? LOOK BELOW:

Rev. 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

So who does God see the Nations he defeated as? The WHOLE WORLD were/are the Nations that Gathered at Armageddon against God. That means that Babylon is the WORLD/World Governance under Satan. The Statue in Daniel 2 represents World Governments under Satanic rule.

Luke ch. 4 tells us this is true. Satan tempted Jesus time and again until he offered Jesus all of the Kingdoms if only he would bow down and worship him, and Jesus said get thee behind me Satan, but what was Satan's own words that back up the BABYLON is Satan ruling the world?

Luke 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. 6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

So the Kingdoms of this World....THE WHOLE WORLD....is of course Satan's. Babylon is WORLD GOVERNANCE under Satan.

GingerBeer · Sep 18, 2017

Istanbul has seven hills, sits on many waters, once it ruled the "whole world" of the Mediterranean sea. It fits the description (in a literal sense) of the Great City mentioned in Revelation.

Traveling teacher · Sep 18, 2017

It is possible that this great city(if it is Jerusalem) will not be fully corrupted until the emd of the 1000 year riegn of Christ

mark kennedy · Sep 18, 2017

Monk Brendan said:
If we had to label a city Babylon, it wouldn't be Jerusalem, as that city is nowhere near as important as it once was. Nor could it be Rome, for the same reasons. I have some ideas. Just on the thought of a, "Great City," and not speaking on quote unquote "Scriptural" or "Topological" terms, just based upon how the kings, merchants, and sailors are reacting. New York, Los Angeles, London, all of these are great cities today, which one do you think it is?

Babylon is in all of those places, but she can't be limited to them. She gets her big hurrah in the tribulation and apparently there is this city built on the plunder of the Antichrist in the tribulation. Babylon isn't as much a place as a mentality.

Paul of Eugene OR · Sep 18, 2017

Monk Brendan said:
If we had to label a city Babylon, it wouldn't be Jerusalem, as that city is nowhere near as important as it once was. Nor could it be Rome, for the same reasons. I have some ideas. Just on the thought of a, "Great City," and not speaking on quote unquote "Scriptural" or "Topological" terms, just based upon how the kings, merchants, and sailors are reacting. New York, Los Angeles, London, all of these are great cities today, which one do you think it is?

The writer of Revelation was thinking of Rome. Today any large, full of sin city can be filled into that blank and we can be sure it will be judged one day.

Goatee · Sep 19, 2017

Revealing Times said:
snip

Being a preacher for 30 years doesnt mean anything. Plenty of people preach. World is full of them buddy. So many think only they have the knowledge or the truth! Even these forums have many like you who say they know the truth. And they nearly always have all different interpretations, views, opinions on scripture! :doh:

Revealing Times · Sep 19, 2017

Goatee said:
Being a preacher for 30 years doesnt mean anything. Plenty of people preach. World is full of them buddy. So many think only they have the knowledge or the truth! Even these forums have many like you who say they know the truth. And they nearly always have all different interpretations, views, opinions on scripture!

It means something to me it might not mean anything to you. Being a servant of God means I respect Paul, Peter, and all men who serve God, are there men who are not of Gd that claim to be, of course, that means you have to use the Holy Spirit to understand the difference, but then again that is your job, not mine, I understand how to test the spirits to see of they be of God.

As per "Different Interpretations" you are JOKING RIGHT? On Babylon you get 200 different ideas per every thread what Babylon is, with absolutely mostly bunk and junk offered up for proof. I offer the truth via the Scriptures, not by guessing. The PROOF that most are not called to Prophecy is the fact that people of Christ have 100's of interpretations of Revelation. They are a HAND trying to be a FOOT. Which never works out. Be what you are called to be, everyone has a calling and 99 percent are not called unto Prophecy.

I am called to Prophecy and understand every part of Revelation and Daniel. Way too many preachers dabble in it and mislead many, that is true, because they are not called to Prophecy. The Sep. 23 "SIGN" is a case in point, its Astrology, and Christians are Partaking in it. It boggles my mind.

God Bless you brother.....

Oseas · Sep 19, 2017

Monk Brendan said:
If we had to label a city Babylon, it wouldn't be Jerusalem, as that city is nowhere near as important as it once was. Nor could it be Rome, for the same reasons. I have some ideas. Just on the thought of a, "Great City," and not speaking on quote unquote "Scriptural" or "Topological" terms, just based upon how the kings, merchants, and sailors are reacting. New York, Los Angeles, London, all of these are great cities today, which one do you think it is?

The Bible explains the Bible, no? How to identify the Great City called Babylon through Scriptures? Revelation 17 identifies clearly the Great City for us. Let us see:

Rev. 17:18 - The woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. (How to identify the Woman which is the Great City?) Rev.17:1-2 reveals: First, (V.1) this woman is "a Great harlot that sitteth upon many waters": Waters? What kind of waters? V.15 explains: "The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues." Oh! OK. (V.2) With whom (with the Woman) the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. (The wine of fornication are her dogmas, her doctrines, her idolatries, her religious witcheries, her BEAST which is enthroned in the Vatican City, and so on.)

(V.4) And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

(V.5) And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

(V.6) And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. (Yes, the Great harlot persecutted, and killed, along the time the true disciples and believers in JESUS Christ, beginning by the Apostles of the Lord. Rev. 13:v.7-10 : 7 And it was given unto him (to the BEAST of Vatican City:Rev.13:1) to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.(theat is the true believers).

>>>Which Great City is Babylon?<<<
None of the related options, it is the Vatican City.

To all
Be preepared because a new BEAST, more powerful than the first BEAST as it was exposed above, will rise up out of the earth (Rev. 13:11-18), and much more agressive and evil, and will manifest in Jerusalem as a messiah, (A FALSE MESSIAH OF COURSE, UN IMPOSTER, UN USURPER) Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Who has ears let him hears what the Spirit says to the Churches. By the way, the Church of Rome is not mentioned among the seven Churches of Apocalypse.

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 19, 2017

Oseas said:
The Bible explains the Bible, no? How to identify the Great City called Babylon through Scriptures? Revelation 17 identifies clearly the Great City for us. Let us see:...................................

>>>Which Great City is Babylon?<<<
None of the related options, it is the Vatican City.

Who has ears let him hears what the Spirit says to the Churches. By the way, the Church of Rome is not mentioned among the seven Churches of Apocalypse.

Sounds good to me. Thank God I live in Texas :ebil:

I believe the SDA's also view the Pope and Rome in Revelation, as did M. Luther I think.
Have you been to the Eschatology board yet?

is the Vatican the woman riding the beast in rev 17?
is the Vatican the woman riding the beast in rev 17?

Matt 23:
35 “that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee,

38 “See! Your house is left to you desolate;

I don't think the people in the Vatican cast dust upon their heads, but then again, anything is possible.

Rev 18:
19 And they cast dust upon their heads and cried out, lamenting and mourning, saying "woe! woe! the City, the great, in which are rich all the ones having the ships in the sea out of the preciousness of Her, that to one hour She was desolated
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ;..............

.......In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely levelled the whole circuit of the city, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings.
Thus was this great City, which only five months before, had been crowded with nearly two millions of people, who gloried in its impregnable strength, entirely depopulated, and levelled with the ground

Reve 9:
5 And was given to them that not they should be killing them, but that they should be being tormented five months
And the torment of them as torment of a scorpion/skorpiou <4651>, whenever it should be striking a man;

Which Great City should be considered Babylon?

Which Great City is Babylon?

New York

London

Los Angeles

Babylon

Jerusalem

Rome

Something Else

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature:

Charismatic Episcopalian

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Cool and refreshing with a kick!

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Natura non facit saltum

Finally Old Enough

Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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