Which Great City should be considered Babylon?

our flesh

The great city is Istanbul.

Monk Brendan said:

If we had to label a city Babylon, it wouldn't be Jerusalem, as that city is nowhere near as important as it once was. Nor could it be Rome, for the same reasons. I have some ideas. Just on the thought of a, "Great City," and not speaking on quote unquote "Scriptural" or "Topological" terms, just based upon how the kings, merchants, and sailors are reacting. New York, Los Angeles, London, all of these are great cities today, which one do you think it is?

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it is the very activity and system of spiritual lawlessness/unrighteousness/wickedness, which manifests primarily in the form of (ostensibly) sacred religions:

Revelation 17:15 "And he said to me, "The waters(i.e. the followings/trends/currents) which you saw where the harlot sits(i.e. which are in her), are peoples(i.e. spiritual/religious people) and multitudes(i.e. multitudes of spiritual/religious people) and nations(i.e. religions/denominations/congregations/sects) and tongues(i.e. and faiths/creeds/religious doctrines)."

Blessings

Monk Brendan said:

If we had to label a city Babylon, it wouldn't be Jerusalem, as that city is nowhere near as important as it once was. Nor could it be Rome, for the same reasons. I have some ideas. Just on the thought of a, "Great City," and not speaking on quote unquote "Scriptural" or "Topological" terms, just based upon how the kings, merchants, and sailors are reacting. New York, Los Angeles, London, all of these are great cities today, which one do you think it is?

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Hi I can make a pretty good case that it is New York or the USA in General as represented by NY. If you look at the attributes of the city to be destroyed in a single day we see the merchants weep for no one buys their luxury goods no more. Since WW2 the US has been described as the consumer nation and if you look at all the great merchant cities of the world.Hong Kong , Tawain, Dubai, Shang Hai and many more they were largely built with a trade imbalance with the USA. Furthermore all the nations of the world are said to have committed fornication with her. This is a deep subject but if you look up a documentary called the hidden faith of our founding fathers you will see the influences going back a long way are brought ot Amercia and indeed the secret societies, masons, Illuminati, Jesuits, Rosecruciian and others are here. Psalm 2 accuses the nations of taking counsel together against the LORD and his annointed saying let us cast off their bonds from us. This is a last days psalm as it ends with the LORD putting his king on his holy mountain. The US established the UN funded and hosted it and is a central player in bringing the one world government together. Another good documentary is called agenda 2 this will show the detailed plan over years towards this objective. Lastly it says this city exported sorcery, and souls of men and is guilty of the blood of the martyrs. The US has been in a perpetual state of war and like in Syria creates a civil war and the Christians are left on their own and being persecuted. In many instances all over the world this has played out. Look into it for yourself. The US has created the drug, rock, rap, hip hop, inappropriate content culture and the culture of new age self love and entitlement this culture or sorcery has been exported all over the world.
Last to not is Zech 6 speaks of a vision of a woman lifted up by two birds on a basket and set on a pillar in the land of Shinar which is another name for Babylon. Eifel the designer of the tower with his name on it designed the statute of liberty and it was made as a woven basket as the base form for the woman and the outer shell was placed over her. The two nations France and US involved both have birds as national symbols and they did indeed lift her up and set her on a pedestal.
If we are close to end times and the Mathew 24 birth pangs suggest we are there is no time for another to take the mantle away from the US as both consumer and exporter of these thing and no other nation has had such influence of global culture as the US as well. If it is not the US or NY then we have time to go for things to line up again with another holding this place. The other argument is that the events have already transpired but in 70 AD. i leave that for you to dismiss on your own.

Monk Brendan said:

If we had to label a city Babylon, it wouldn't be Jerusalem, as that city is nowhere near as important as it once was. Nor could it be Rome, for the same reasons. I have some ideas. Just on the thought of a, "Great City," and not speaking on quote unquote "Scriptural" or "Topological" terms, just based upon how the kings, merchants, and sailors are reacting. New York, Los Angeles, London, all of these are great cities today, which one do you think it is?

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Monk Brendan, speaking of where we are now, "Let him that hath no sin cast the first stone". I am bewildered by where we are at the moment and the depravity that is tearing apart this world. Yes a person that "Sees a glass half empty" perhaps, yet when I talk to my, the older, generation within seconds we spiral down into gloom and despondency; yet isn't it our generation that has encouraged the path of travel. There is only one way out now, PRAYER, in all its forms.

Monk Brendan said:

If we had to label a city Babylon, it wouldn't be Jerusalem, as that city is nowhere near as important as it once was. Nor could it be Rome, for the same reasons. I have some ideas. Just on the thought of a, "Great City," and not speaking on quote unquote "Scriptural" or "Topological" terms, just based upon how the kings, merchants, and sailors are reacting. New York, Los Angeles, London, all of these are great cities today, which one do you think it is?

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America.
Revelation chapter 18 verse 23
The light of a lamp will never shine in you again. The voice of bridegroom and bride will never be heard in you again. Your merchants were the world's important people. By your magic spell all the nations were led astray.

Long Island has a suburb known as Babylon

Babylon (village), New York - Wikipedia

Brian Mcnamee said:

Hi I can make a pretty good case that it is New York or the USA in General as represented by NY. If you look at the attributes of the city to be destroyed in a single day we see the merchants weep for no one buys their luxury goods no more. Since WW2 the US has been described as the consumer nation and if you look at all the great merchant cities of the world.Hong Kong , Tawain, Dubai, Shang Hai and many more they were largely built with a trade imbalance with the USA. Furthermore all the nations of the world are said to have committed fornication with her. This is a deep subject but if you look up a documentary called the hidden faith of our founding fathers you will see the influences going back a long way are brought ot Amercia and indeed the secret societies, masons, Illuminati, Jesuits, Rosecruciian and others are here. Psalm 2 accuses the nations of taking counsel together against the LORD and his annointed saying let us cast off their bonds from us. This is a last days psalm as it ends with the LORD putting his king on his holy mountain. The US established the UN funded and hosted it and is a central player in bringing the one world government together. Another good documentary is called agenda 2 this will show the detailed plan over years towards this objective. Lastly it says this city exported sorcery, and souls of men and is guilty of the blood of the martyrs. The US has been in a perpetual state of war and like in Syria creates a civil war and the Christians are left on their own and being persecuted. In many instances all over the world this has played out. Look into it for yourself. The US has created the drug, rock, rap, hip hop, inappropriate content culture and the culture of new age self love and entitlement this culture or sorcery has been exported all over the world.
Last to not is Zech 6 speaks of a vision of a woman lifted up by two birds on a basket and set on a pillar in the land of Shinar which is another name for Babylon. Eifel the designer of the tower with his name on it designed the statute of liberty and it was made as a woven basket as the base form for the woman and the outer shell was placed over her. The two nations France and US involved both have birds as national symbols and they did indeed lift her up and set her on a pedestal.
If we are close to end times and the Mathew 24 birth pangs suggest we are there is no time for another to take the mantle away from the US as both consumer and exporter of these thing and no other nation has had such influence of global culture as the US as well. If it is not the US or NY then we have time to go for things to line up again with another holding this place. The other argument is that the events have already transpired but in 70 AD. i leave that for you to dismiss on your own.

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It is interesting what you have said , as I was hovering between N.Y. and Paris ,and just recently realised ,that the 2 women ,marriane , and the statue of liberty, were both created by Eiffel , and both represent, this so called period of the enlightenment (19th century) ,when man believed he had become a god , and that God was dead .

Le Tour Eiffel is the most popular monument, which I have always declined to visit (the devil's needle ).So I feel Paris could be a candidate .

toLiJC said:

it is the very activity and system of spiritual lawlessness/unrighteousness/wickedness, which manifests primarily in the form of (ostensibly) sacred religions:

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I would agree, except that which you have mentioned is the Harlot, not Babylon. The Harlot is pretty much everything you mentioned, that is why its described as the Harlot in 17:1 and 17:15. The Woman (Harlot) rides the Beast (Babylon/Government). The Harlot is as you say "False Religions" thus the Waters = all nations/tongues/multitudes of peoples. Meaning world-wide false religious peoples.

Monk Brendan said:

If we had to label a city Babylon, it wouldn't be Jerusalem, as that city is nowhere near as important as it once was. Nor could it be Rome, for the same reasons. I have some ideas. Just on the thought of a, "Great City," and not speaking on quote unquote "Scriptural" or "Topological" terms, just based upon how the kings, merchants, and sailors are reacting. New York, Los Angeles, London, all of these are great cities today, which one do you think it is?

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well babylon is a city on 7 hills according to Revelation, so it could be Rome or Moscow. Or "on 7 hills" could be a reference to ruling the world which it could then be metaphorical for a city like Washington DC or something...

I honestly see Babylon as Washington

ByTheSpirit said:

well babylon is a city on 7 hills according to Revelation, so it could be Rome or Moscow. Or "on 7 hills" could be a reference to ruling the world which it could then be metaphorical for a city like Washington DC or something...

I honestly see Babylon as Washington

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List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia

Revealing Times said:

I would agree, except that which you have mentioned is the Harlot, not Babylon. The Harlot is pretty much everything you mentioned, that is why its described as the Harlot in 17:1 and 17:15. The Woman (Harlot) rides the Beast (Babylon/Government). The Harlot is as you say "False Religions" thus the Waters = all nations/tongues/multitudes of peoples. Meaning world-wide false religious peoples.

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the "harlot/harlot" is "babylon"

Isaiah 1:21 (KJB2000) "How has the faithful city become a harlot! it was full of justice; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.",

i.e. how has the faith become spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness?!

Revelation 17:5 (DRB) "And on her forehead a name was written: A mystery; Babylon the great, the mother of the fornications, and the abominations of the earth."

Blessings

toLiJC said:

the "harlot/harlot" is "babylon"

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You think so? The text tells us different. The Harlot is hated by the Kings see Rev. 17:16

Rev. 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

These same Kings in Rev. ch. 18 cry and lament Babylons demise/burning.

Rev. 18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

Rev. 17:5 only describes the Harlot by using four descriptions, one is Babylon the Great because she has close ties and because that is where Harlotry first flourished. She is also described as a Mystery, Abominations of the Earth and the Mother of Harlots. Of course the Angel in verse 7 tells us he is going to explain the Mystery unto us, and proceeds to do so in verses 8-17. He explains the Beast first and then the Harlot. Its two sides, thus shes riding the Gov. Beast. False Religion is the Harlot and False Governance is Babylon.

You are overlooking the facts, because you see she has Babylon the Great imprinted on her head, this shows association, as does the Harlot riding the Beast. We understand she is associated with Babylon, False Religion is and always has been associated with Babylon, they had 100's of religions and demi-gods.

The Four descriptors are just that, clues to who she is.

Someone else cites the Seven Hills (7 Hills) this is a huge no no or misnomer. The Seven Heads are of Course Seven Kingdoms, God reduces them to Rulers NOT MOUNTAINS (Oros means one that arises above the plains). So the Seven Heads are Seven Rulers (OROS/Mountains) who are also Seven Kings and 5 have fallen (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia and Greece), ONE IS (Rome), and one is NOT YET COME(The Anti-Christ/coming Beast).

So if this means Seven Kingdoms, how can it transform to Seven Hills/Mountains in ONE PLACE?

Rev. 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

So its NEVER one City, nor could it ever be, we know Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome are four of those Heads we are even told that in Rev.13 because the Lion, Leopard and Bear are mentioned as well as Rome via the head with the Mortal wound.

I think Brussels, Belgium. The location for the EU Parliament headquarters.



EU Parliament headquarters looks a lot like the tower of babel.

one way said:

I think Brussels, Belgium. The location for the EU Parliament headquarters.

EU Parliament headquarters looks a lot like the tower of babel.

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It certainly looks like Brugel's painting of it (1563) though. Of course, he had no idea what it really looked like, so this is purely his imagination at work.

We all hear about this for years. And its as if you had all the main cities written each on a piece of paper. And just TOSS them in the air. And everyone just picks one.

In truth.. I have never followed this as in studied this. On the surface reading.. I never got a simple picture so to speak. I know Rev talks about it.. but what did Isa mean then "Babylon will never rise again. Generation after generation will come and go, ". I really have no idea.

Gussing .. I wouldnt ever go with anything of the USA. Well the word is always about Israel and all around them... I am just shooting in the dark.. I will hit something...but.. it will be a miss lol

Ha, let me add some confusion (no pun) 7 hills = 7 continents .. Truth is every where I look I want to agree that this place or that fits a description . I keep changing my mind but it's intriguing anyhoo .

Revealing Times said:

You think so? The text tells us different. The Harlot is hated by the Kings see Rev. 17:16

So if this means Seven Kingdoms, how can it transform to Seven Hills/Mountains on ONE PLACE?

Rev. 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

So it NEVER one City, nor could it ever be, we know Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome are four of those Heads we are even told that in Rev.13 because the Lion, Leopard and Bear are mentioned as well as Rome via the head with the Mortal wound.

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Good post.
What mountain is Jesus talking about in Matt 21:21?
It appears it is the same mountain shown in Reve 8:8. Perhaps symbolizing the OC be taken away?
Notice the same mountain is referred to in Gala 4:24 where Paul mentions 2 Covenants, and Hebrews 12:18 perhaps referring to the same mountain?

Matthew 21:21
And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do what is done to the fig tree, but even if ye shall say unto this mountain, be thou taken up and cast into the sea, it shall be done". [Reve 8]

Galatian 4:24
which things is an allegory. For these are *the two Covenants, one indeed from mount Sinai into servitude generating/gennwsa <1080> who-any is Hagar.
25 For the Hagar mount Sinai is in Arabia is together-elemental yet to now Jerusalem slaving/serving tye with the offpsrings of Her.

Hebrew 12:18
For not ye have come toward to being handled a mountain, and to having been kindled to fire and to murkiness and to darkness and to tempest.

Reve 8:8
And the second Messenger trumpets and as-like a mountain, great to fire burning, was cast into the Sea
and became the third of the Sea blood [Matthew 21:21/Galatian 4:24, 25/Hebrew 12:18]

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

...........The old and the young, the common people and the priests, those who surrendered and those who resisted, were equally involved in this horrible and indiscriminate carnage.
Meanwhile the Temple continued burning, until at length, vast as was its size, the flames completely enveloped the, whole building ; which, from the extent of the conflagration, impressed the distant spectator with an idea that the whole city was now on fire...................

..........The Romans having become masters of the lower City, set it on fire.
The Jews now fled to the higher, from whence, their pride and insolence yet unabated, they continued to exasperate their enemies and even appeared to view the burning of the town below them with tokens of pleasure..........

Reve 18:18
and were crying, seeing the smoke of her burning, saying, "What city is like to the great city?"
..........

Steve Petersen said:

List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia

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Cincinnati represent!

I counted 77 cities claiming to have 7 hills on that list. Interesting, if nothing else.

Notice the reference to mountains of Israel in Ezekiel 39:17 and the great Sacrifice and Supper of the great God in Revelation 19:17.
[Ironically they even have the same vs number]

Ezekiel 39:17
" And thou son of adam, thus He says my Lord Yahweh, 'say thou! to bird of every wing, and to all of beast of the field: 'be assembled ye! and come ye! together ye from round about on sacrifice of Me which I sacrificing for ye, a great sacrifice great on Mountains of Israel, and ye eat flesh and ye drink blood.
18 Flesh of mighty-ones ye shall eat, and blood of princes of the Land ye shall drink.....[Revelation 19:17]

Reve 19:17
And I perceived one messenger standing in the sun, and he cries-out in great voice, saying to all the birds, the ones flying in mid-heaven, "hither! be ye being gathered/sun-agesqe <4863> (5744)! into the Supper of the Great God........................
18 That Ye may be eating fleshes of kings......[Zeph 1:17/Ezekiel 39:19]

For those interested, I have a thread on the harmonizing of Revelation to the Old Testament.

Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament

THE SYMBOLISM IN BOOK OF REVELATION

One man studied and found 348 allusions (not illusions, Light) in Revelation from the Old Testament. You see the similarity in wording and the context mirrored in Revelation and the particular Old Testament story, and immediately can recognize the reference source! That&#8217;s, IF you know the bible well enough to even notice that.

95 of the 348 plain references used in Revelation as taken from the Old Testament are repeated in Revelation.
That makes about 250 Old Testament passages are cited. How many chapters are in Revelation? 22. That makes about TEN OLD TESTAMENT REFERENCES FOR EVERY CHAPTER!


EZEKIEL AND REVELATION PARALLEL

1. THRONE VISION - (Rev 4./Ezek 1).
2. THE BOOK (Rev 5/Ezek 2-3)
3. THE PLAGUES (Rev 6:1-8/Ezek 5).
4. Slain Beneath the Altar (Rev. 6:9-11/Ezek. 6)
5. WRATH OF GOD (Rev 6:12-17/Ezek 7).
6. SEAL ON SAINTS' FOREHEADS (Rev 7/Ezek 9)
7. COALS FROM ALTAR (Rev. 8/Ezek 10).
8. NO MORE DELAY (Rev. 10:1-7/Ezek 12).
9. EATING THE BOOK (Rev 10:8-11/Ezek. 2)
11. MEASURING THE TEMPLE (Rev. 11:1-2/Ezek. 40-43)
11. JERUSALEM AND SODOM (Rev. 11:8/Ezek 16)
12. CUP OF WRATH (Rev. 14/Ezek. 23).
13. VINE OF THE LAND (Rev. 14:18-20/Ezek 15)
14. GREAT HARLOT (Rev 17-18/Ezek. 16, 23).
15. LAMENT OVER THE CITY (Rev. 18/Ezek 27)
16. SCAVENGER'S FEAST (Rev. 19/Ezek 39)
17. FIRST RESURRECTION (Rev 20:4-6/Ezek 37).
18 BATTLE WITH GOG AND MAGOG (Rev. 20:7-9/Ezek 38-39)
19. NEW JERUSALEM (Rev 21/Ezek 40-48)
20. RIVER OF LIFE (Rev 22/Ezek 47)