JESUS and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

Aseyesee · Sep 15, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
You seem reluctant to answer the question

My point is in reference to the son we are, not another's accuser.

To me there is as much difference in the manna of the wilderness and the fruit of the land as there is to be a servant unto rightousness, and being that rightousness (which has everything to do with entering into the seventh day as a place we abide in and go no more out of).

stuart lawrence · Sep 15, 2017

Aseyesee said:
My point is in reference to the son we are, not another's accuser.

.

I must have misunderstood your words, when you stated:

A slave to righteousness is terminology best suited to the wilderness of ones experiance

Aseyesee · Sep 15, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
I must have misunderstood your words, when you stated:

A slave to righteousness is terminology best suited to the wilderness of ones experiance

Neither am I judge over that, or maybe better said, was is that to me ... as something relative to my soul.

stuart lawrence · Sep 15, 2017

I used to be uncomfortable with the phrase:
A slave to righteousness

But either Paul was wrong to use it, or I wasn't understanding it correctly.
I pretty quickly concluded I wasn't understanding it correctly.
Pauls letters are very dear to me.
In my view, he preached the greatest message preached since Christ walked this earth

Aseyesee · Sep 15, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
I used to be uncomfortable with the phrase:
A slave to righteousness

But either Paul was wrong to use it, or I wasn't understanding it correctly.
I pretty quickly concluded I wasn't understanding it correctly.
Pauls letters are very dear to me.
In my view, he preached the greatest message preached since Christ walked this earth

Greatest message I have heard, is in me.

stuart lawrence · Sep 15, 2017

Aseyesee said:
Greatest message I have heard, is in me.

I'm glad to hear it.

LoveGodsWord · Sep 15, 2017

Hi Stuart

Some comments for consideration...

stuart lawrence said:
The convert is asked to surrender their life to Christ, ask him to be Lord and saviour of their life. If they do this, God will make them alive with Christ/ accept them as his children, EVEN WHEN they are dead in transgression/ sin.( Eph2:5) The sin in the converts life is then IRRELEVANT to their rightstanding before God, for the converts righteousness before God is faith in his son, not righteousness of obeying the law/ not committing sin (rom 3:20-22, gal2:14&5, phil3:9 etc)

What do you mean the sin in the convert’s life? Are you talking about a convert that is still sinning or a convert that has by faith repented of their sins and asked Jesus for forgiveness?

stuart lawrence said:
Sin/breaking Gods laws are totally irrelevant to your right standing before God (rom3:20, gal2:21, rom10:4, etc)

You say sin/breaking God’s Law is totally irrelevant to your right standing before God. So then in your view you believe that someone in unrepentant sin is in a saved state before God?

This goes against the scriptures in Hebrews 10:26-27; Hebrews 6:4-8; Romans 8:13; Romans 6:23 etc. What you say above contradicts what you said earlier about the new convert not wanting to sin.

The scripture you quote in support is only talking about someone trying to gain their righteousness by trying to obey God’s Law without faith. It is not talking about someone’s right standing with God by sinning.

Do you mean that our right standing with God is based on our faith in the promises of God and not by the things that we do and it is our faith that brings the fruit of obedience to God’s Law through love? (Ephesians 2:8; Romans 13:9-10; Romans 8:1-13 etc.)

stuart lawrence said:
This crossing over from one state to the other takes time, and during this time you will be seen to be an evident sinner (gal2:16&17)

The scriptures you quote do not support your statement “This crossing over from one state to the other takes time, and during this time you will be seen to be an evident sinner” The scriptures are talking about we are not justified by the works of the Law.

[Staff edit].

stuart lawrence said:
Many fail to see the truth of the gospel message though, and some just want a religion of trying to attain heaven by obeying law. In truth, it is lifeless religion. God wants your heart, not you focusing on being good enough for him so you may enter heaven. A forlorn hope, for no one can be good enough for God by attempted lawkeeping

We are only saved by grace through the faith that we have in God’s Word and not of ourselves it is a gift of God lest any man should boast. However if you have unrepentant sin in your life you need to repent and seek God for forgiveness so you can be born again to walk in newness of life.

BobRyan · Sep 15, 2017

LoveGodsWord said:
GOD’S LAW (10 commandments) ARE FOREVER

The Law of God (10 commandments) is the work of God (Exodus 32:16) whatsoever God does is forever nothing can be added to it or taken away (Ecclesiastes 3:14). God's Law is perfect converting the soul (Psalms 19:7). It is the very foundation of the Old and New Covenants and the Judgement to come (Exodus 20:1:17, Hebrews 8:10-12; Exodus 36:26-27; Jeremiah 31:33-34; Hebrews 10:26-28; Romans 1:29-32;2:-9;2 Corinthians 5:10; Hebrews 9:27; Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1 John 3:4, Acts 17:31 ).

God's Law was spoken by God himself to His people (Exodus 20:1-22). God’s 10 commandments are the spoken word of God (Exodus 20:1-22). God’s Word does not pass away (Matthew 25:35). Gods Law is still in force today (Psalms 111:7-8, Revelations 12:17, 14:12, 22:14, 1 John 3:5-8, 1 John 2:3-4; James 2:8-12 etc.). God’s Law reveals sin to us and the penalty of sin so we can see ourselves as we truly are sinners in need of a Saviour (Romans 6:23; Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4). It is the great standard of the judgement (Hebrews 10:26-28; Romans 1:29-32; Romans 2:2-13; 2 Corinthians 5:10; Hebrews 9:27; Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1 John 3:4, Acts 17:31). God's Law is our teacher revealing sin and brings us to Christ at the foot of the cross that we might be saved by faith by Him who loves us and washed us in His own blood as we have faith (Galatians 3:24; Revelations 1:5). God writes His Law in our hearts so that we become like him and we follow him because we love him (Hebrews 8:10-12) LOVE is the fulfilling (doing) of God's Law (Romans 13:10). This is why Jesus says to those that love him If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15).

This also includes God's 4th commandment which is the 7th Day Sabbath.

In Christ Always!

Certainly that is true!

LoveGodsWord · Sep 15, 2017

Aseyesee said:
I believe in the word of God, but what is in a word could be likened to a stone that when beheld, becomes a great mountain which then fills the whole earth. What of Zechariah 14? simply curious as to where you are at perception wise; we can only see what we can see ...

If you would like to chat about the Feast of Booths from the ceremonial laws of Moses I am more then happy to do so in the thread COL 2:14-17 THE REAL TRUTH. Please address the OP (Also, 4x Parts at the bottom of post #1 linked) so you can see where I am coming from scripture wise. That will save time re-posting the same things.

LoveGodsWord · Sep 15, 2017

BobRyan said:
Certainly that is true!

Hi Bob! Absolutely. Only God's Word is true and it is every Word of God that we are to live by.

stuart lawrence · Sep 16, 2017

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi Stuart

Some comments for consideration...

What do you mean the sin in the convert’s life? Are you talking about a convert that is still sinning or a convert that has by faith repented of their sins and asked Jesus for forgiveness?

You say sin/breaking God’s Law is totally irrelevant to your right standing before God. So then in your view you believe that someone in unrepentant sin is in a saved state before God?

This goes against the scriptures in Hebrews 10:26-27; Hebrews 6:4-8; Romans 8:13; Romans 6:23 etc. What you say above contradicts what you said earlier about the new convert not wanting to sin.

The scripture you quote in support is only talking about someone trying to gain their righteousness by trying to obey God’s Law without faith. It is not talking about someone’s right standing with God by sinning.

Do you mean that our right standing with God is based on our faith in the promises of God and not by the things that we do and it is our faith that brings the fruit of obedience to God’s Law through love? (Ephesians 2:8; Romans 13:9-10; Romans 8:1-13 etc.)

The scriptures you quote do not support your statement “This crossing over from one state to the other takes time, and during this time you will be seen to be an evident sinner” The scriptures are talking about we are not justified by the works of the Law.

[Staff edit].

We are only saved by grace through the faith that we have in God’s Word and not of ourselves it is a gift of God lest any man should boast. However if you have unrepentant sin in your life you need to repent and seek God for forgiveness so you can be born again to walk in newness of life.

Point1)

For because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy made us alive with Christ, EVEN WHEN we were dead in transgression/ sin, it is by grace you have been saved
Eph2:5

You are made alive with Christ EVEN WHEN you are dead in sin.
Does all sin immediatley vanish the moment you get saved? In the following paul is speaking of a new convert seeking justification of their christianity by faith in Christ:

If while we seek to be justified in Christ it becomes EVIDENT that we ourselves are SINNERS, does this mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not, if i rebuild what I destroyed I prove I am a lawbreaker
Gal2:16&17
So Paul has answered your question, and shown your error

stuart lawrence · Sep 16, 2017

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi Stuart

Some comments for consideration...

What do you mean the sin in the convert’s life? Are you talking about a convert that is still sinning or a convert that has by faith repented of their sins and asked Jesus for forgiveness?

You say sin/breaking God’s Law is totally irrelevant to your right standing before God. So then in your view you believe that someone in unrepentant sin is in a saved state before God?

This goes against the scriptures in Hebrews 10:26-27; Hebrews 6:4-8; Romans 8:13; Romans 6:23 etc. What you say above contradicts what you said earlier about the new convert not wanting to sin.

The scripture you quote in support is only talking about someone trying to gain their righteousness by trying to obey God’s Law without faith. It is not talking about someone’s right standing with God by sinning.

Do you mean that our right standing with God is based on our faith in the promises of God and not by the things that we do and it is our faith that brings the fruit of obedience to God’s Law through love? (Ephesians 2:8; Romans 13:9-10; Romans 8:1-13 etc.)

The scriptures you quote do not support your statement “This crossing over from one state to the other takes time, and during this time you will be seen to be an evident sinner” The scriptures are talking about we are not justified by the works of the Law.

[Staff edit].

We are only saved by grace through the faith that we have in God’s Word and not of ourselves it is a gift of God lest any man should boast. However if you have unrepentant sin in your life you need to repent and seek God for forgiveness so you can be born again to walk in newness of life.

Point2)
Once again you quote scripture that speaks of wilfull,.not Unrepentant sin. You have already previously been shown your error in this regard, but though you refused to respond to posts showing you your error, you continue to err in this regard.
I am not contradicting anyrhing at all. A new convert hates the sin that still binds them, and trusts in Christ for deliverance from it.
And gal2:16&17 is speaking of a converts seeking to be justified by faith in Christ, NOT observing the law.
Rom.3: 20 states:
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law/ not committing sin, rather through the law we become conscious of sin.

So once again Paul shows your error

stuart lawrence · Sep 16, 2017

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi Stuart

Some comments for consideration...

What do you mean the sin in the convert’s life? Are you talking about a convert that is still sinning or a convert that has by faith repented of their sins and asked Jesus for forgiveness?

You say sin/breaking God’s Law is totally irrelevant to your right standing before God. So then in your view you believe that someone in unrepentant sin is in a saved state before God?

This goes against the scriptures in Hebrews 10:26-27; Hebrews 6:4-8; Romans 8:13; Romans 6:23 etc. What you say above contradicts what you said earlier about the new convert not wanting to sin.

The scripture you quote in support is only talking about someone trying to gain their righteousness by trying to obey God’s Law without faith. It is not talking about someone’s right standing with God by sinning.

Do you mean that our right standing with God is based on our faith in the promises of God and not by the things that we do and it is our faith that brings the fruit of obedience to God’s Law through love? (Ephesians 2:8; Romans 13:9-10; Romans 8:1-13 etc.)

The scriptures you quote do not support your statement “This crossing over from one state to the other takes time, and during this time you will be seen to be an evident sinner” The scriptures are talking about we are not justified by the works of the Law.

[Staff edit].

We are only saved by grace through the faith that we have in God’s Word and not of ourselves it is a gift of God lest any man should boast. However if you have unrepentant sin in your life you need to repent and seek God for forgiveness so you can be born again to walk in newness of life.

Point3
You show a total lack of understanding g the message.
Once again, gal2:16&17 clearly shows it takes time to cross over from being a slave of sin to a slave of righteousness leading to holiness

stuart lawrence · Sep 16, 2017

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi Stuart

Some comments for consideration...

What do you mean the sin in the convert’s life? Are you talking about a convert that is still sinning or a convert that has by faith repented of their sins and asked Jesus for forgiveness?

You say sin/breaking God’s Law is totally irrelevant to your right standing before God. So then in your view you believe that someone in unrepentant sin is in a saved state before God?

This goes against the scriptures in Hebrews 10:26-27; Hebrews 6:4-8; Romans 8:13; Romans 6:23 etc. What you say above contradicts what you said earlier about the new convert not wanting to sin.

The scripture you quote in support is only talking about someone trying to gain their righteousness by trying to obey God’s Law without faith. It is not talking about someone’s right standing with God by sinning.

Do you mean that our right standing with God is based on our faith in the promises of God and not by the things that we do and it is our faith that brings the fruit of obedience to God’s Law through love? (Ephesians 2:8; Romans 13:9-10; Romans 8:1-13 etc.)

The scriptures you quote do not support your statement “This crossing over from one state to the other takes time, and during this time you will be seen to be an evident sinner” The scriptures are talking about we are not justified by the works of the Law.

At the same time you should not deceive yourself thinking you are in a saved state when you have unrepentant sin in your life that you are in a right standing with God. If this is your case you need to seek God because you are not walking in the spirit but in the flesh and if you are in the flesh you will die (Romans 8:13) If we break one of God’s commandments we are guilty before God of breaking all of God’s Laws. This includes the 7th Day Sabbath which is one of the 10.

It is only God’s people, those that believe and follow God’s Word that God writes his laws (10 commandments) through love in the believer’s heart (John 3:16; Romans 13:8-10). It is only these people that follow God’s Word that God says; their sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more. Because they have confessed and repented of their sins seeking forgiveness and by faith in God’s promises received forgiveness and God’s Spirit to walk in newness of life (1 John 1:9; Acts 2:38; 3:19; John 7:39; Romans 8:4).

We are only saved by grace through the faith that we have in God’s Word and not of ourselves it is a gift of God lest any man should boast. However if you have unrepentant sin in your life you need to repent and seek God for forgiveness so you can be born again to walk in newness of life.

Yes, if we break one of Gods applicable commands we are guilty of breaking them all. Therefore it is sinless perfection or you are guilty of breaking all of Gods commands. Are you sinless in your flesh?
I am going to ignore all your comments about unrepentant sin as you refuse to address your error when shown it.
King David committed wilfull sin but repented of it. So your view of wilfull sin being Unrepentant sin is shown to be false

stuart lawrence · Sep 16, 2017

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi Stuart

Some comments for consideration...

What do you mean the sin in the convert’s life? Are you talking about a convert that is still sinning or a convert that has by faith repented of their sins and asked Jesus for forgiveness?

You say sin/breaking God’s Law is totally irrelevant to your right standing before God. So then in your view you believe that someone in unrepentant sin is in a saved state before God?

This goes against the scriptures in Hebrews 10:26-27; Hebrews 6:4-8; Romans 8:13; Romans 6:23 etc. What you say above contradicts what you said earlier about the new convert not wanting to sin.

The scripture you quote in support is only talking about someone trying to gain their righteousness by trying to obey God’s Law without faith. It is not talking about someone’s right standing with God by sinning.

Do you mean that our right standing with God is based on our faith in the promises of God and not by the things that we do and it is our faith that brings the fruit of obedience to God’s Law through love? (Ephesians 2:8; Romans 13:9-10; Romans 8:1-13 etc.)

The scriptures you quote do not support your statement “This crossing over from one state to the other takes time, and during this time you will be seen to be an evident sinner” The scriptures are talking about we are not justified by the works of the Law.

[Staff edit].

We are only saved by grace through the faith that we have in God’s Word and not of ourselves it is a gift of God lest any man should boast. However if you have unrepentant sin in your life you need to repent and seek God for forgiveness so you can be born again to walk in newness of life.

You don't understand the doctrine at the heart of the NC
The law God desires you to follow is written in your mind and placed on your heart by God himself. What is in your mind you in your mind must know, law in your heart must bring heartfelt conviction of sin if you wilfully transgress it. Your conviction of sin comes from within. So it is from inner conviction we know what law God has placed in our hearts. That is born again christianity. People who have to read law written in ink in the OT to be conscious of sin/ know the law God desires them to follow, do NOT have truly born again christianity. For they obviously have no conviction from within of sin. They rely on what is written in ink

stuart lawrence · Sep 16, 2017

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi Stuart

Some comments for consideration...

What do you mean the sin in the convert’s life? Are you talking about a convert that is still sinning or a convert that has by faith repented of their sins and asked Jesus for forgiveness?

You say sin/breaking God’s Law is totally irrelevant to your right standing before God. So then in your view you believe that someone in unrepentant sin is in a saved state before God?

This goes against the scriptures in Hebrews 10:26-27; Hebrews 6:4-8; Romans 8:13; Romans 6:23 etc. What you say above contradicts what you said earlier about the new convert not wanting to sin.

The scripture you quote in support is only talking about someone trying to gain their righteousness by trying to obey God’s Law without faith. It is not talking about someone’s right standing with God by sinning.

Do you mean that our right standing with God is based on our faith in the promises of God and not by the things that we do and it is our faith that brings the fruit of obedience to God’s Law through love? (Ephesians 2:8; Romans 13:9-10; Romans 8:1-13 etc.)

The scriptures you quote do not support your statement “This crossing over from one state to the other takes time, and during this time you will be seen to be an evident sinner” The scriptures are talking about we are not justified by the works of the Law.

[Staff edit].

We are only saved by grace through the faith that we have in God’s Word and not of ourselves it is a gift of God lest any man should boast. However if you have unrepentant sin in your life you need to repent and seek God for forgiveness so you can be born again to walk in newness of life.

You may believe in saved by grace through faith at the point t of conversion but you do not believe it once in a saved state.
And once again, as you continually quote heb10:26 in regard to Unrepentant sin it shows you do not understand the subject
And time and time.e again I have explained to you the truly born again Christian, as surely as night follows day will repent/ say sorry to their father in heaven when they err.
You ignore all the posts written to you concerning this and Keep coming back with the same old statements

stuart lawrence · Sep 16, 2017

LoveGodsWord said:
Friend, I believe all of God's Word how about you?

We who are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners know that a man is not justified by observing the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we too have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.
If while we seek to be justified in Christ it becomes EVIDENT that we ourselves are SINNERS, does this mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! If I rebuild what I destroyed I prove I am a lawbreaker
Gal2:14-17

Paul is speaking in the above of a justification by faith in Christ, NOT observing the law that takes time to achieve, it is NOT instantaneous

TBC

stuart lawrence · Sep 16, 2017

LoveGodsWord said:
Friend, I believe all of God's Word how about you?

Continued from post 177

What justification is Paul speaking of in gal2:14-17 that is not instantaneous?
For if you repent and ask Christ to be Lord and Saviour of your life you are instantly declared righteous/ justified before God.
Paul is speaking in these verses of seeking a justification by faith in Christ in respect to the new convert crossing over from being a slave of sin when they come to Christ, to a slave if righteous leading to holiness(rom6:17&18)
Much sin you can immediately cease upon conversion, for it does not have much hold over you. But other sin, you may have been a slave to over decades, and this sin takes time to see victory over, it is often not instant deliverance.
You seek this justification of your newfound christianity by faith in Christ. You trust in Jesus to cross over from being a slave of sin when you come to Christ to a slave of righteousness leading to holiness.
Now what would someone who did not understand the true message think? A new convert with glaring sin in their life joins their church, and heartily joins in the service, worshipping and praising God. Someone who didn't understand Pauls message concerning justification would immediatley think:
If this man is a Christian Christ must promote sin. For here he is praising and worshipping God while having glaring sin in his life.

However, the man who has been born again hates the sin he is a slave to, he earnestly seeks, by a righteousness of faith in Christ to be delivered from it. But he is still entitled, despite such imperfections to praise and worship God for giving him rightstanding through what Christ did for him, otherwise, he must go around in sackcloth and ashes until he is as pure as the driven snow.
Immediatley after Paul asks the question he answers it:
Absolutely not! If i rebuild what I destroyed I prove I am a lawbreaker
What has paul sought to destroy? Righteousness of observing the law.
In other words, if Paul sought to defeat his sin in order to be justified before God/observe the law to be justified, he would fail and simply prove he was a lawbreaker/sinner

Your view of justification is much like a Catholics, though I am sure such a thought would horrify you

Aseyesee · Sep 16, 2017

LoveGodsWord said:
If you would like to chat about the Feast of Booths from the ceremonial laws of Moses I am more then happy to do so in the thread COL 2:14-17 THE REAL TRUTH. Please address the OP (Also, 4x Parts at the bottom of post #1 linked) so you can see where I am coming from scripture wise. That will save time re-posting the same things.

Is Zacriah 14 future or past to you? For me yes, or no will suffice, and I'll be on my way; as I said, I'm just curious.

stuart lawrence · Sep 16, 2017

Theres woodenly quoting the partial letter, with a very limited/ shallow/ narrow understanding, based on what the letter states, and there's understanding the true message contained in the letter. A true message underwritten by the great love, mercy and compassion of God for his children.
They are two completely different things

JESUS and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

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