I am as righteous as Jesus

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The Times

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Where are those other claims being made?

I understand, but I used as an example, your same methodology to attribute the essential qualities of Jesus to the saved. After all why stop at righteousness, right?
 
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Hammster

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I understand, but I used as an example,your same methodology to attribute the essential qualities of Jesus to the save. After all why stop at righteousness, right?
I have said nothing of the other qualities. It's strictly about being seen right by God.
 
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The Times

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I have said nothing of the other qualities. It's strictly about being seen right by God.

Being seen as right, is not the same as being right, due to the essential qualities of another party being imputed onto our account. In fact it acknowledges the opposite, that the person is far from being right, therefore requiring another party to administer grace.

A judge shows mercy to a prisoner because of the fact that another party has shown mercy to the judges son, yet the judge makes this call not because the prisoner is merciful or right with him, rather the judge is honouring the other party. This happens all the time in real life.

God as the Judge is honouring the Son, so that GRACE can be administered onto us and all this because of the righteousness of the Son. It would be embarrassing and even brazingly cheeky for me to claim the Son's righteousness.
 
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Neogaia777

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I have said nothing of the other qualities. It's strictly about being seen right by God.
When and when we are saved, we get to see, that we are seen right by God... But only after the other truth first, the bad news, man's perspective and judgment, and, then, we get to see God's perspective and judgement on it, that superceeds that (the other one) a piece at a time, which is how he saw you all along...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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I have said nothing of the other qualities. It's strictly about being seen right by God.
We are seen right by God, even when we can't see right ourselves, which is why we sometimes do not see it...
 
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Hammster

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Is God speaking there?

Please provide verse or versus in Romans 5:1, where it is implied that God acknowledges a saved as being righteous in essence.
If you don't consider this the word of God, then there's no point in continuing. We will definitely be talking past each other.
 
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Hammster

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Being seen as right, is not the same as being right, due to the essential qualities of another party being imputed onto our account. In fact it acknowledges the opposite, that the person is far from being right, therefore requiring another party to administer grace.

A judge shows mercy to a prisoner because of the fact that another party has shown mercy to the judges son, yet the judge makes this call not because the prisoner is merciful or right with him, rather the judge is honouring the other party. This happens all the time in real life.

God as the Judge is honouring the Son, so that GRACE can be administered onto us and all this because of the righteousness of the Son. It would be embarrassing and even brazingly cheeky for me to claim the Son's righteousness.
Hard to argue with your non-scriptural argument.
 
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iwbswiaihl2

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Yes. Being justified is being declared righteous. So if God calls you righteous, you are righteous.
I would agree that what you stated in the beginning is a true statement. After all, it seems to me that it was thrown out to begin a dialogue. Some have felt that if someone agrees with your wording they are being self righteous, I am not one of those. I do believe that every true believer is just as righteous as Jesus otherwise none would go to heaven. We are the righteousness of God in Christ by faith. That is a foundational truth of scripture just as it says about Abraham the father of the faith, Gen 15:6 Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness. Gal 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. The whole Christian life is a walk of faith and just because some of us believe that it is a blessing that we do see that we are as righteous as Jesus and some don't does not mean that we are wrong in believing what scriptures teach. Only the righteous go to heaven, granted it is the righteousness of Christ which no one is disputing. The problem I have is why some do not realize that by faith all Christians are as righteous as Jesus because He imputes His righteousness to us just as He says about Abraham.
 
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iwbswiaihl2

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In my post 359 I have answered your entire post in full. It should now become transparent to you and others that to be justified by another party's righteousness, is acknowledging the justified party to be at fault, that is the acknowledgememt of unrigtheousness.

There is no where in scripture that God calls the justified believer as rigtheous, nowhere!




That is of course your belief, but each tub must sit on its own bottom they say. We walk by faith and not by sight, when scripture says Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness, I will rest in that and allow others to go with their views. I believe that is what Hammster would say too.
 
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Swan7

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Those Declared Righteous are Reconciled - Romans 5:6-11
"For while we were still helpless, at the appointed moment, Christ died for the ungodly. For rarely will someone die for a just person—though for a good person perhaps someone might even dare to die. But God proves His own love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us! Much more then, since we have now been declared righteous by His blood, we will be saved through Him from wrath. For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, then how much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life! And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ. We have now received this reconciliation through Him." :yellowheart:
 
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iwbswiaihl2

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I think you are getting hung up on the claim and how it's perceived. You keep saying we can't say it because of how people might perceive it. How it might be perceived does not dictate whether it's a true statement or not.
Agreed, amen or o me?
 
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iwbswiaihl2

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Where does God say or declare in scripture, that saved people are righteous?

Please be my guest and provide evidence.
Gal 3:11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith. Does this not clearly say by faith the righteous will live? In fact this same wording is used 3 times in the Old and New testament.
 
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The Times

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If you don't consider this the word of God, then there's no point in continuing. We will definitely be talking past each other.

I asked you, if you can help me see what you see by highlighting a verse or versus in Romans 5:1, unless you want to discuss all of Romans 5:1, which inevitably will detract from the OP.
 
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The Times

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Hard to argue with your non-scriptural argument.

Why is it none scriptural? If Christ lives in us, why can't we carry the truth of Jesus. Simply put, if scripture can't be used to refute a teaching, as you have implied, then there must not exist any contradiction in the teaching, even if it cannot be found in scripture. Otherwise, the challenge is to refute what I say and teach, using Sola Scripture. I'm sure you have a high regard for Sola Scripture, right? ;)
 
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iwbswiaihl2

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Is God speaking there?

Please provide verse or versus in Romans 5:1, where it is implied that God acknowledges a saved as being righteous in essence.
Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God. Looking at that word justified in the Strong' concordance it say#1344 to render just or innocent: free , justify(ier), be righteous.
As far as is God speaking there, is not all scripture inspired by God?
 
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Hammster

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I asked you, if you can help me see what you see by highlighting a verse or versus in Romans 5:1, unless you want to discuss all of Romans 5:1, which inevitably will detract from the OP.
You asked where does God declare. So I gave you Romans 5:1. Are you thinking that Paul is speaking on his own initiative?
 
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Hammster

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Why is it none scriptural? If Christ lives in us, why can't we carry the truth of Jesus. Simply put, if scripture can't be used to refute a teaching, as you have implied, then there must not exist any contradiction in the teaching, even if it cannot be found in scripture. Otherwise, the challenge is to refute what I say and teach, using Sola Scripture. I'm sure you have a high regard for Sola Scripture, right? ;)
Your illustration wasn't scripture. It was a story of a judge.
 
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