The "coming of the son of man" already took place?
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Hal A Peno
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Oseas
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>>>John 5:43 isn't a verse of prophecy! I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. Jesus is simply saying that he has come in his Fathers name, but IF another shall come in their OWN name him they would receive! Jesus is stating what we would call a 'hypothetical situation."<<<
The Spirit of Christ JESUS was and is the Spirit of prophecy, JESUS never spoke under hypothetical condition, absolutely, He is Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent. JESUS did know the total destruction of the nation of Israel in the year 70, and the Jewish people would go to be spread around the world until 1.948, so 1.878 years of exile, without their land and without any possibility of manifestation of another messiah, in fulfilment all kind of pragues and punishments written by Moses in Deut. 28:15-68.
The return of Israel unto their land in 1.948 was permitted to fulfil other prophecies written about Israel, among which the birth of the false messiah, a Jewish man, of course, in truth the son of perdition (he is called a son because he is a Jew and not a Gentile man), inclusive his manifestation in the days ahead is not so far from these days, in truth he must be revealed in his own time as was prophesied by the Apostle Paul. (2Th.2:v.6and9to12CJB) 9 When this man who avoids Torah comes, the Adversary (the Devil) will give him the power to work all kinds of false miracles, signs and wonders. (Yes, this powerful false messiah comes possessed by the spirit of the DEVIL, the own Satan, a former Cherub) 10 He will enable him to deceive, in all kinds of wicked ways, those who are headed for destruction because they would not receive the love of the truth (they received not JESUS as their true Messiah) that could have saved them. 11 This is why God is causing them to go astray, so that they will believe the Lie. 12 The result will be that all who have not believed the truth, but have taken their pleasure in wickedness, will be condemned. This will be the last punishment of the nation of Israel, the final and eternal punishiment of Israel.
>>>Thayer on the word IF...
...is a conditional participle which makes reference to time and experience introducing something future, but not determining, before the event, whether it is certainly to take place.<<<
Yes, you are grammaticaly right, but what was prophesied by JESUS was the future acception of the false messiah by the people of Israel after their return to their land. The Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of prophecy. And when he comes and appears and manifest himself among the people, making great signs and wonders as the messiah of them, so they will acclaim him in loud voices, of course, as their leader and savior of their enemies. Certainly they will consider the true believers as their enemies bucause they, like me, will not believe in their false "messiah'', an IMPOSTER, an USURPER, the own Satan incarnated.
JESUS came to his own and they received him not, they preferred Barabbas, a robber, a demon, a son of Devil, instead the son of God, JESUS Christ.
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Oseas
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Yes. What is written? Mat.21: v.40
40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
JESUS did not come yet. Read the Bible. Have you never read what is written Acts 3:v.20/21CJB? In whose verses is written:
20 so that times of refreshing may come from the Lord’s presence; and he may send the Messiah appointed in advance for you, that is, Yeshua. 21 He has to REMAIN in heaven until the time comes for RESTORING everything, as God said long ago, when he spoke through the holy prophets. It never was prophesied the coming of JESUS in the year 70, what you are saying is tare.
My work is to separate the tare from the wheat.
The destruction of Israel in the year 70 was the fulfilment of all pragues and punishments written by Moses in Deut.28:15-68, it has nothing to do with the coming of JESUS.
Whosoever falls on this stone (JESUS) shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
So, be prepared
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Friend, those wicked men to whom Jesus was DIRECTLY ADDRESSING, were indeed destroyed Miserably in 70AD.
THEY KNEW He was speaking of them:
21:45
45 Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking of them.
Why don't you understand what they did??
There is ONLY ONE EVENT that Jesus PROMISED them would result in their destruction.
Since they were destroyed as He promised, we can know with absolute certainty that ONE EVENT took place.
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Phantasman
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There was a difference. The Sadducee's were destroyed (by their own). The Pharisee's not so much.
Christiantoday.com:
The destruction of the temple also signified a change in the Jews’ worship (although that change had begun as Jews had been scattering throughout the world for at least six hundred years). The first destruction of the temple, by the Babylonians in 586 B.C., had forced the Jews to become people of the Book. The temple’s sad end slammed the door on the Jew’s sacrificial system. They adjusted, of course, creating new rituals for home and synagogue. But the Sanhedrin was dissolved, and the center of Jewish religion moved to the educational institutions of Jamnia.
Where were the Christians? Out of town, basically. Many had been driven out of Jerusalem by persecution decades earlier. Eusebius wrote that when the revolt began, in A.D. 66, some of the remaining Jewish Christians fled to Pella, a city across the Jordan River.
It could be said that these events threw the young church’s balance of power toward the Gentiles. Missionaries like Paul had originally dealt with a strong (and conservative) Jewish church, based in Jerusalem. But the Christian Jews’ non-involvement in the revolt drove an obvious wedge between them and their traditional counterparts. After A.D. 70, Christians were not permitted in the synagogues.
The fall of Jerusalem, then, made the Christians even more distinct from the Jews and impelled the church to develop among the Gentiles.
The separation was between the ideology of Jewish beliefs and scriptures influencing the Gospel or not influential in it's teaching. Marcion, Valentinus, Johaninnes, etc. accepted the later. Catholicism emerged through the former. This moved on for centuries, until one all but eliminated the other.
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claninja
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Technically, Jesus did come, just not in the direction you are thinking. He came to the Father.
Daniel 7:13-14
13“In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,a coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
Jesus told the chief priests and whole Sanhedrin that they would see the event in Daniel 7:13-14:
You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”e
Jesus did come to the Father
Acts 2:34-35.
“ ‘The Lord said to my Lord:“Sit at my right hand 35until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” ’f
Revelation 3:21
21To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne
Ephesians 1:20
he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms,
1 Peter 3:22 a
22who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand
Jesus was given all authority, glory, power, dominion
Ephesians 1:21
21far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come
1 Peter 3:22 b
with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him
Matthew 28:18
18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me
Luke 24:25
25He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?”
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Indeed!
How did they know to flee?
Jesus Told them.
Look at these three parallel passages describing this same event:
Luke 21:20-23
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
Mark 13:14-19
14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
Matthew 24:15-19
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
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Phantasman
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Indeed!
How did they know to flee?
Jesus Told them.
Look at these three parallel passages describing this same event:
Luke 21:20-23
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
Mark 13:14-19
14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
Matthew 24:15-19
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Good call. I didn't even relate it until you pointed it out, but it does make sense. Especially because it spoke identical in the three synoptic gospels, written for the Jews.
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Oseas
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>>>Friend, those wicked men to whom Jesus was DIRECTLY ADDRESSING, were indeed destroyed Miserably in 70AD.<<<
Friend, you are slepping a profound sleep, wake up, wake up. In the years 70AD, not only those wicked men were destroyed, but the whole nation of Israel, again, the whole nation of Israel. The entire nation disappeared out of the map in accord the curses written in Deut. 28:15-68. JESUS, only and only, confirmed LITERALLY the curses written against Israel by Moses.
>>>THEY KNEW He was speaking of them: 21:45
45 Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking of them.<<<
Yes, they understood that JESUS was speaking of them, what they did not understand is that JESUS was speaking of the destruction of the whole nation of Israel. They were blind, leaded by blinds priests.
>>>Why don't you understand what they did??<<<
Friend, it is you who know not the Spirit of Christ. By the way, in the days ahead, under the Judgment Seat of Christ, there will be another destruction of the wicked Jews (Rev.14:v.18-19) as the same manner it was in the year 70AD
>>>There is ONLY ONE EVENT that Jesus PROMISED them would result in their destruction. Since they were destroyed as He promised, we can know with absolute certainty that ONE EVENT took place.<<<
And now there will be another destruction of all the wicked Jews. JESUS came to His own and they received Him not, they preferred Barabbas, a robber, a demon, a son of Devil, instead the son of God, JESUS Christ.
Wake up. Wake up. We are living exactly in the seventh and last millennium or last Day of the week of God, that is the Day of the Lord, and the Millennium of Christ, and the Millennium of Truth, and the Millennium of Judgment, the Judgment Seat of Christ, and the Millennium of Vengeance, as prophesied Isaiah: "The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God. For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness. For the Lord God of hosts shall make a consumption, even determined, in the midst of all the land. (Isaiah 10:21-23). This will be the last and final destruction of Israel, inclusive the earthly Jerusalem, "the Great City, which SPIRITUALLY is called Sodom and Egypt, where also OUR LORD WAS CRUCIFIED.
Wake up. Wake up, and be prepared
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Oseas
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>>>Technically, Jesus did come, just not in the direction you are thinking. He came to the Father.<<<
If you wrote this because I said in my reply JESUS did not come yet, then I see you have not the gift of the discernment of spirit. I said JESUS did not come yet, thinking in the second coming of Him in the days ahead, by the way not so far from the present time, do you believe? This wondeful moment is approaching.
>>>Daniel 7:13-14
13“In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,a coming with the clouds of heaven.<<<
You are speaking of the vision of the prophet Daniel, in that time JESUS was yet in the bosom of the Father (John 1:v.18), but the Apostle Paul shows the fulfilment of Daniel's prophecy: (1The.4:16-17CJB) 16 For the Lord himself (JESUS) will come down from heaven with a rousing cry, with a call from ONE of the ruling angels (Michael), and with God’s shofar (trump of God); those who died united with the Messiah will be the first to rise (yes, the resurrection will happen under the sound of trump of Michael: Daniel 12:1-2); 17 then we who are left still alive will be caught up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord. So encourage each other with these words. By the way, Michael is also a son of man, his birth here is revealed in Revelation 12:1-2&5-12. He is a warrior, he judges and makes war.
>>>He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.<<<
Who is He and who is the Ancient of Days? One of these two is the Archangel Michael. In the kingdom of God, the Gentile nations will be rulled by Michael, the Archangel (Rev.12) together with JESUS who will be enthroned in Jersusalem, the New Jerusalem. Yes, To him was given rulership, glory and a kingdom, so that all peoples, nations and languages should serve him. His rulership is an eternal rulership that will not pass away; and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
Rev. 11:15-18 will fulfil itself LITERALLY in the days ahead. v.15 KJV The kingdoms of THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
>>>Jesus did come to the Father
Acts 2:34-35. “The Lord said to my Lord:“Sit at my right hand 35until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” <<<
Yes, and who will be sat at the right hand of the Lord JESUS? Oh, then came to JESUS the mother of Zebedees children with her sons, worshipping Him, and desiring a certain thing of Him. And JESUS said unto her, What will you? She said unto Him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom. JESUS answered saying: to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it will be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
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Oseas
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Sorry, it is not the case, it sounds like you're not telling the truth, I did not see anyone with the nickname keras in this topic which had written "Jesus did not come yet", but myself surely, replying Beorh #108 and #112 and Parousia #114, whose friends did write JESUS came in the year 70AD. It is not true, it is tares and need to be ripped out of the kingdom of God.
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Oseas
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[QUOTE="parousia70, post: #131 ´22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and WRATH UPON this people.[/QUOTE]
Woe to the inhabiters of the earth (Israel) and of the sea (all the Gentile nations)! for the Devil is come down(encarnated) unto you (yes, unto all the nations, even unto Israel too), having great WRATH, because he knoweth that he hath but a SHORT TIME. And when the dragon saw that HE WAS CAST UNTO THE EARTH, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the MAN CHILD. Rev. 12:12-13 -
This prophetic message of Apocalipse will fulfil LITERALLY in the days ahead, day after day. Woe to the inhabitters of the earth)
Prepare yourselves, O people.
Woe to the inhabiters of the earth (Israel) and of the sea (all the Gentile nations)! for the Devil is come down(encarnated) unto you (yes, unto all the nations, even unto Israel too), having great WRATH, because he knoweth that he hath but a SHORT TIME. And when the dragon saw that HE WAS CAST UNTO THE EARTH, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the MAN CHILD. Rev. 12:12-13 -
This prophetic message of Apocalipse will fulfil LITERALLY in the days ahead, day after day. Woe to the inhabitters of the earth)
Prepare yourselves, O people.
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christiang2
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No, you've misinterpreted this, it means that the gospel will be spread around all the towns of Israel AND even around the world BEFORE the son of man comes, which correlates with,
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. (Matthew 24:14 [NIV])
The gospel has been preached all around the world already, which includes all the towns of Israel. NOW we are approaching the end.
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