JESUS and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

LoveGodsWord · Sep 14, 2017

Aseyesee said:
So you don't believe John was telling the whole truth, which as Jesus was purported to have said, whosoever sins you hold will be beheld, and whosoever sins you remit will be remitted, which seems to put the ball in our court, seeing how God declares the end from the beginning, just as the lamb was slain from the foundation of the world (same word John used (which seems to put God's declaration of an end from the beginning in the hypothetical department?). You had said to me in your thread the administrators closed that the ceremonial law was done away with, which includes one having to come up to Jerusalem to keep a feast (which I really don't disagree with). Do you see Zechariah 14 as having already happened? (because it states that the nations that came against Jerusalem would have to come up every year to keep the feast of tabernacles).

Friend, I believe all of God's Word how about you?

LoveGodsWord · Sep 14, 2017

listed said:
LoveGodsWord said: WHAT DID JESUS AND THE APOSTLES TEACH ABOUT GOD’S LAW(the scriptures below are no where near exhaustive) Jesus taught the 10 commandments…..listed replied: 1. Jesus kept God’s Law (10 commandments) and said the Law and the prophets would not pass away (Matt 5:17-18) Already responded to this with Luke 24:44 which is rejected as truth. Also have included Hebrews 7:12 showing jots and titles of the law have passed and rejected as truth.

In relation to what is posted it is the interpretation of scripture put forward that is not biblical and rejected not the scripture. Please feel free to respond to the following; You claim that God’s Law (the 10 commandments) are abolished yet this interpretation contradicts God’s Word. This is because all through the Old Testament and New Testament scriptures the very standard in the Old Covenant, the New Covenant and the judgement to come is God’s Law (10 commandments) which the Word of God says are forever.

God’s Word says that the Law of God (10 commandments) is the work of God (Exodus 32:16) whatsoever God does is forever nothing can be added to it or taken away (Ecclesiastes 3:14). God's Law is perfect converting the soul (Psalms 19:7). It is the very foundation of the Old and New Covenants and the Judgement to come (Exodus 20:1:17, Hebrews 8:10-12; Exodus 36:26-27; Jeremiah 31:33-34; Hebrews 10:26-28; Romans 1:29-32;2:-9;2 Corinthians 5:10; Hebrews 9:27; Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1 John 3:4, Acts 17:31 ). God's Law was spoken by God himself to His people (Exodus 20:1-22). God’s 10 commandments are the spoken word of God (Exodus 20:1-22). God’s Word does not pass away (Matthew 25:35). Gods Law is still in force today (Psalms 111:7-8, Revelations 12:17, 14:12, 22:14, 1 John 3:5-8, 1 John 2:3-4; James 2:8-12 etc.). God’s Law reveals sin to us and the penalty of sin so we can see ourselves as we truly are sinners in need of a Saviour (Romans 6:23; Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4). It is the great standard of the judgement (Hebrews 10:26-28; Romans 1:29-32; Romans 2:2-13; 2 Corinthians 5:10; Hebrews 9:27; Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1 John 3:4, Acts 17:31). God's Law is our teacher revealing sin and brings us to Christ at the foot of the cross that we might be saved by faith by Him who loves us and washed us in His own blood as we have faith (Galatians 3:24; Revelations 1:5). God writes His Law in our hearts so that we become like him and we follow him because we love him (Hebrews 8:10-12) LOVE is the fulfilling (doing) of God's Law (Romans 13:10). This is why Jesus says to those that love him If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15). This also includes God's 4th commandment which is the 7th Day Sabbath.

It has just been shown in the scriptures provided above that;
(1) God’s Law (10 commandments) are forever.
(2) God’s Law (10 commandments) are the standard of the Old and New Covenants and the judgement to come.
(3) God’s Law (10 commandments) points out sin and righteousness and leads us to our Saviour.

So no God’s Law (10 commandments) are not abolished. Now let’s look at the scriptures that you provided?

You use Luke 24:44 and Hebrews 7:12 as your references for scripture to support your interpretation that God’s Law (10 commandments) are abolished. Let’s have a look at what the scriptures say and what they are talking about including the context.

Luke 24:44
He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.

Within Luke Chapter 24, the context of Luke 24:44 is just after the resurrection of Jesus (v24), And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not. (v25), Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: (26), ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? (v27) And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Then continuing….

(v44), And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. (v45), Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, (v46), And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: (v47), And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (v48), And ye are witnesses of these things. (v49), And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Luke 24:44 is in reference the ceremonial laws of Moses and the prophets and the psalms that pointed to Jesus. (see Isaiah 53; Psalms 22; Leviticus 23). These where the shadows discussed earlier with you that where shadows of things to come that had their fulfilment and pointed to Jesus, his life, death, resurrection and ministration as our advocate and great High Priest in the Heavenly Sanctuary (Hebrews 8:1-5; 6-13; Hebrews 10:1-19; Colossians 2:14;17; Hebrews chapters 9; 10; John 1:29; 1 Corinthians 5:6-7; Romans 2:28-29).

Luke 24:44 does not say that Jesus has abolished the 10 commandments as the verse is in reference to the ceremonial laws of Moses that pointed to Jesus and not God’s Law (10 commandments)

Now let’s look at Hebrews 7…

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

What law?

The context of Hebrews 7 once again is about the ceremonial laws of Moses in relation to the Levitical Priesthood pointing to Christ. Verses 11-14 Observe the necessity there was of raising up another priest, after the order of Melchisedec and not after the order of Aaron, by whom that perfection should come which could not come by the Levitical priesthood, which therefore must be changed, and the whole economy with it, v. 11, v. 12, etc. Here,(1). It is asserted that perfection could not come by the Levitical priesthood and the law. They could not put those who came to them into the perfect enjoyment of the good things they pointed out to them; they could only show them the way.(2). That therefore another priest must be raised up, after the order of Melchisedec, by whom, and his law of faith, perfection might come to all who obey him; and, blessed be God, that we may have perfect holiness and perfect happiness by Christ in the covenant of grace, according to the gospel, for we are complete in him.(3). It is asserted that the priesthood being changed there must of necessity be a change of the law; there being so near a relation between the priesthood and the law, the dispensation could not be the same under another priesthood; a new priesthood must be under a new regulation, managed in another way, and by rules proper to its nature and order.IV. It is not only asserted, but proved, that the priesthood and law are changed, v. 13, v. 14. The priesthood and law by which perfection could not come are abolished, and a priest has arisen, and a dispensation is now set up, by which true believers may be made perfect. Now that there is such a change is obvious.1. There is a change in the tribe of which the priesthood comes. Before, it was the tribe of Levi; but our great high priest sprang out of Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning the priesthood, v. 14. This change of the family shows a real change of the law of the priesthood.2. There is a change in the form and order of making the priests. Before, in the Levitical priesthood, they were made after the law of a carnal commandment; but our great high priest was made after the power of an endless life. The former law appointed that the office should descend, upon the death of the father, to his eldest son, according to the order of carnal or natural generation; for none of the high priests under the law were without father or mother, or without descent: they had not life and immortality in themselves. They had both beginning of days and end of life; and so the carnal commandment, or law of primogeniture, directed their succession, as it did in matters of civil right and inheritance. But the law by which Christ was constituted a priest, after the order of Melchisedec, was the power of an endless life. (Source: Matthew Henry Bible Commentary)

Hebrews 7:12 does not say that Jesus has abolished the 10 commandments

In summary therefore based on the scripture provided God’s Law (10 commandments) are forever and the standard of the Old and New Covenant and the judgement to come. Luke 24:44 and Hebrews 7:12 do not support your interpretation that God’s Law (10 commandments) have been abolished. If you do not believe the scriptures provided in this post please respond. This also includes the 7th Day Sabbath.

listed said:
LoveGodsWord said: 2. Jesus taught others to follow the 10 commandments (Mark 10:17-21)
listed replied: The pro law contingency have been asked and asked to discuss the context of the same incident found it Matthew 19 and so far have resolutely declined by ignoring the request. Anyone wonder why?

Wonder why not? Let’s discus it.

As for me I am pro man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Everything from the New Testament scriptures come from the Old Testament. The two great commandments which is to (1) love God and (2) love our fellow man come from the Old Testament writings found in Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18. These two great commandments however were summing up God’s Law (10 commandments). The first is your duty towards God (the first table Exodus 20:1-11) and the second is your duty towards your neighbour (2nd table Exodus 20:12-17) and is why Jesus says on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets (Matthew 22:36-40).

The Jews (Pharisees/Lawyers) knew this already however as is referenced in Luke 10:25-28

Luke 10:25-28
25, And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 26, He said unto him, what is written in the law? How readest thou? 27, and he answering said <the Lawyer/Pharisee>, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself. 28, and he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Because this was indeed referring to the Old testament scriptures (Deut 6:5; Lev 19:18)
Notice again the same question asked by the rich young ruler in what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

Matthew 19:16-19
16, And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17, And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18, He saith unto him, which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

This is the reason Jesus says that on the two great commandments (love to God and Love to man) hang all the law and the prophets (Matthew 22:36-40). This is because you cannot separate Love from action. Love produces the fruit of obedience which is established in the life of those that have faith and believe God’s Word (2 Peter 1:4; Ephesians 2:8; Romans 3:31; Romans 8:4; Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:3-10; 1 John 2:2-4).

There you go discussed your post does not support your claim that God’s Law (10 commandments) have been abolished. This also includes the 7th Day Sabbath.

listed said:
LoveGodsWord said: 3. Jesus taught that Love is the fulfilling (doing) of God’s Law (10 commandments Matt 22:36-40) listed replied: I don't think so. Jesus only answered a question. Jesus did say keep the law. It also should be noted neither come from the ten commandments. It's held by the pro law contingency here those commandments are nailed tot he cross being what is referred to as the law of Moses. What we have here is really double speak.

Matthew 22:36-40,
36, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37, Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38, This is the first and great commandment. 39, And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40, On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Matthew 19:16-19
16, And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17, And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18, He saith unto him, which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

There is no double speak friend only God’s Word. Why do you call it double speak? Your post says “I do not think so” Does this refute God’s Word or should we believe man over God’s Word? What does the scripture say? God forbid: yea let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, that thou might be justified in thy sayings, and might overcome when thou art judged. This is because it is God’s Word that will judge us in the last days (Romans 3:4; John 12:47-48)

What you have posted above does not say that God’s Law (10 commandments) are abolished. This also includes the 7th Day Sabbath.

listed said:
LoveGodsWord said: 4 If we break God’s Law by following man-made traditions we are not following God (Matt 15:3-9) listed replied: This statement is really 2 things: self condemnation by non compliance of the speaker and that no one not keeping the law isn't a Christian (following God). The positive statement of this is: One must keep the law to have salvation. This is a direct contradiction to the words of Jesus several places in the Gospel of John.

Actually those are the Words of Jesus in reference to following man-made traditions over the Word of God that break God’s Law (10 commandments)…

Matthew 15:3-9
3, But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 4, For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death. 5, But ye say, whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou might be profited by me; 6, and honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. 7, you hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8, this people draw nigh unto me with their mouth, and honours me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9, But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Jesus (God’s Word) says if we knowingly follow man-made traditions over the Word of God that break God’s commandments we are not following God. Sunday Worship is a man-made tradition that breaks God’s Law (10 commandments)

What you have posted above does not say that God’s Law (10 commandments) are abolished. This also includes the 7th Day Sabbath.

listed said:
LoveGodsWord said: 5. Jesus says if we commit sin we are a servant of sin and he has come to free us from sin (John 8:32-36) listed replied: If we are the servants of sin is true for the person we call Christian there is no salvation or eternal life. Paul, James and John all discuss tihs issue. None oft hem grant the right to live a lifestyle of sin. All of them admit the Christian sins.

Once again these are also the Words of Jesus…

John 8:31-36
31, Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32, and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33, they answered him, we be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say you, you shall be made free? 34, Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, whosoever commits sin is the servant of sin. 35, and the servant abides not in the house for ever: but the Son abides ever.36, If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Salvation by faith for the believer is from sin not in sin resulting freedom not to sin.

If you are in unrepentant sin God’s Word says you do not know God and you are not following him (1 John 3:3-10; 1 John 2:2-4)

Once again what you have posted above does not say that God’s Law (10 commandments) are abolished. This also includes the 7th Day Sabbath.

listed said:
LoveGodsWord said: 6. Jesus taught if you love God you will keep God’s Law and abide in His Love (John 14:15; 15:10 listed replied: Jesus did no such thing in either of these verses. Jesus takes possession of something. Jesus doesn't take possession of the law clearly evident by His comparison statement in John 15:10.

Yet you provide no scripture for your opinion despite all the scripture references all through the New Testament provided by Jesus in his own Words and the Apostles. Yet we have not even begun to discuss the Old Testament writings that the New Testament has come from. How should we believe the Word of God or man? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, that thou might be justified in thy sayings, and might overcome when thou art judged. (Romans 3:4)

Once again what you have posted above does not say that God’s Law (10 commandments) are abolished. This also includes the 7th Day Sabbath.

listed said:
LoveGodsWord said: 7. If anyone is breaking any of God’s commandments and teaching others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven <least = lost> (Matt 15:19) listed replied: The brief definition provided above isn't provable by Scripture. If a person is lost they aren't in the kingdom of God. The verse clearly speaks of being in the kingdom of heaven. It doesn't speak about those outside of the kingdom of heaven.

What do supporting scriptures in God’s Word say?

Matthew 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven

What will happen to those that are found in unrepentant sin breaking God’s commandments?

Hebrews 10:26-27
26, For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9, Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revellers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 5:19-21
19, Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21, Envying’s, murders, drunkenness, revelling’s, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Now it is clear in Matthew 15:19 that we are talking about someone that is breaking one of God’s commandments and teaching others to do so. That are called least in the Kingdom of Heaven. This is referring to those that are in God’s Kingdom. The few supporting scriptures provided above (there are others also elsewhere) tell us what happens to those that break God’s commandments that they shall not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. This is compared to Matthew 5:19 which is talking about those breaking God’s commandments and are being referred to as also being the least in God’s Kingdom because they are teaching others to depart from the Kingdom of Heaven.

Once again what you have posted above does not say that God’s Law (10 commandments) are abolished. This also includes the 7th Day Sabbath.

listed said:
LoveGodsWord said: 8. No one can obey God’s Law producing the fruit of obedience of ourselves and unless we abide in Jesus we can do nothing (John 15:4-10) listed replied: Here the subject is changed from the "ten commandments" to "the law of God." Jeremiah does this in his prophecy about the replacement of the covenant. The pro law contingency put forth the ten commandments are the only and exclusive law of God. This can't be true considering just the OT. For instance Genesis 26:5 says Abraham kept God law and Moses says Abraham didn't have the ten commandment law in Deuteronomy 5:3.This post is already way to long. I see no real need to show the implied misinformation of the remainder of the post.

Once again what you have posted above does not say that God’s Law (10 commandments) are abolished. There has nothing been provided from this post to suggest any implied misinformation from the OP and nothing has been provided to suggest that God’s Law (10 commandments) have or ever will be abolished and we have not even considered the OP of the writings of the Apostles. God’s Law (10 commandments) are forever. This also includes the 7th Day Sabbath.

In Christ Always!

LoveGodsWord · Sep 14, 2017

listed said:
This appears often here. I wonder why Luke 24:44 and Hebrews 7:12 are ignored.

And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

This has been addressed already in post # 142 above

LoveGodsWord · Sep 14, 2017

LoveGodsWord said:
God's promises have only ever been conditional. If we do not abide by God's Word then the promises are not for us. God's Word is only for God's people and is why Jesus says my sheep hear my voice.

listed said:
Salvation isn't conditional of obedience to the law. The Gospel of John is great on this issue.

Please re-read what was said above

stuart lawrence · Sep 15, 2017

LoveGodsWord said:
Friend, I believe all of God's Word how about you?

As one who is in the Lord Jesus I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean then for him it is unclean
Rom14:14

Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. ALL food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes another to stumble
Rom 14:20

stuart lawrence · Sep 15, 2017

LoveGodsWord said:
Friend, I believe all of God's Word how about you?

If we disown him
He must disown us
If we are faithless he remains faithful
For he cannot disown himself
2tim2:12&13

stuart lawrence · Sep 15, 2017

The convert is asked to surrender their life to Christ, ask him to be Lord and saviour of their life. If they do this, God will make them alive with Christ/ accept them as his children, EVEN WHEN they are dead in transgression/ sin.( Eph2:5)
The sin in the converts life is then IRRELEVANT to their rightstanding before God, for the converts righteousness before God is faith in his son, not righteousness of obeying the law/ not committing sin( rom3:20-22, gal2:14&5, phil3:9 etc)
The convert who has surrendered their life to Christ cannot use such grace as a licence to sin, for they now hate the sin that binds them, they in their heart do not want it, for they have been born again and chosen their master(rom6:15) And the law God desires them to follow us written in their minds and placed on their hearts( heb10:16)
The new convert must now cross over from being a slave of sin when they come to Christ into a slave of righteousness LEADING to holiness( rom6:17-19). Note, once you have crossed over and become slaves to righteousness leading to holiness, you are NOT sinless in your flesh. If you were, you would not be being led into holiness, you would already be perfectly holy.
This crossing over is key, and is to be achieved by in your heart knowing Christ is your rightstanding before God. Sin/ breaking Gods laws are totally irrelevant to your rightstanding before God( rom3:20, gal2:21, rom10:4, etc)
This crossing over from one state to the other takes time, and during this time you will be seen to be an evident sinner( gal2:16&17) But you must ignore voices in your head that tell you, you cannot be a Christian because of your Imperfections/sin. The devil puts them there.
For when people come to Christ, some sin can immediately cease, for it does not have that much of a hold on your life, but other sin, that you may have been a slave to for decades does, and victory is seen over this sin by standing by faith in the son of God who loved you and gave himself for you. For certain sin must be dealt with in order for you to cross over from being a slave of sin when you come to Christ, into a slave if righteousness LEADING to holiness. For by its very nature it will stop you moving forward in the Christian life, for it will utterly dominate your life if not dealt with. I E alcoholism is a good example
You MUST NOT rebuild in your mind, what Paul sought to destroy, and believe your sin/ observance of the law, will decide your rightstanding before God. If you turn back to that, you will simply prove you are a lawbreaker/sinner( gal2:17)
According to Pauls message, this is the way to see victory over sin in your life.
Such people who have surrendered their lives to Christ from their heart don't need to be told by anyone they must obey Gods laws, for they in their heart want to live as God desires them to live. Such people will never be judged on the basis of the law, they have been acquitted for they have a saviour from their sins. Their sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more( jerimiah 31:33, heb10:17)
Many fail to see the truth of the gospel message though, and some just want a religion of trying to attain heaven by obeying law. In truth, it is lifeless religion. God wants your heart, not you focusing on being good enough for him so you may enter heaven. A forlorn hope, for no one can be good enough for God by attempted lawkeeping

Aseyesee · Sep 15, 2017

LoveGodsWord said:
Friend, I believe all of God's Word how about you?

I believe in the word of God, but what is in a word could be likened to a stone that when beheld, becomes a great mountain which then fills the whole earth.

What of Zechariah 14? simply curious as to where you are at perception wise; we can only see what we can see ...

Aseyesee · Sep 15, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
The convert is asked to surrender their life to Christ, ask him to be Lord and saviour of their life. If they do this, God will make them alive with Christ/ accept them as his children, EVEN WHEN they are dead in transgression/ sin.( Eph2:5)
The sin in the converts life is then IRRELEVANT to their rightstanding before God, for the converts righteousness before God is faith in his son, not righteousness of obeying the law/ not committing sin( rom3:20-22, gal2:14&5, phil3:9 etc)
The convert who has surrendered their life to Christ cannot use such grace as a licence to sin, for they now hate the sin that binds them, they in their heart do not want it, for they have been born again and chosen their master(rom6:15) And the law God desires them to follow us written in their minds and placed on their hearts( heb10:16)
The new convert must now cross over from being a slave of sin when they come to Christ into a slave of righteousness LEADING to holiness( rom6:17-19). Note, once you have crossed over and become slaves to righteousness leading to holiness, you are NOT sinless in your flesh. If you were, you would not be being led into holiness, you would already be perfectly holy.
This crossing over is key, and is to be achieved by in your heart knowing Christ is your rightstanding before God. Sin/ breaking Gods laws are totally irrelevant to your rightstanding before God( rom3:20, gal2:21, rom10:4, etc)
This crossing over from one state to the other takes time, and during this time you will be seen to be an evident sinner( gal2:16&17) But you must ignore voices in your head that tell you, you cannot be a Christian because of your Imperfections/sin. The devil puts them there.
For when people come to Christ, some sin can immediately cease, for it does not have that much of a hold on your life, but other sin, that you may have been a slave to for decades does, and victory is seen over this sin by standing by faith in the son of God who loved you and gave himself for you. For certain sin must be dealt with in order for you to cross over from being a slave of sin when you come to Christ, into a slave if righteousness LEADING to holiness. For by its very nature it will stop you moving forward in the Christian life, for it will utterly dominate your life if not dealt with. I E alcoholism is a good example
You MUST NOT rebuild in your mind, what Paul sought to destroy, and believe your sin/ observance of the law, will decide your rightstanding before God. If you turn back to that, you will simply prove you are a lawbreaker/sinner( gal2:17)
According to Pauls message, this is the way to see victory over sin in your life.
Such people who have surrendered their lives to Christ from their heart don't need to be told by anyone they must obey Gods laws, for they in their heart want to live as God desires them to live. Such people will never be judged on the basis of the law, they have been acquitted for they have a saviour from their sins. Their sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more( jerimiah 31:33, heb10:17)
Many fail to see the truth of the gospel message though, and some just want a religion of trying to attain heaven by obeying law. In truth, it is lifeless religion. God wants your heart, not you focusing on being good enough for him so you may enter heaven. A forlorn hope, for no one can be good enough for God by attempted lawkeeping

Though I understand your point ... a slave to rightousness is terminology best suited for the wilderness of one's experience.

PeaceJoyLove · Sep 15, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
The convert is asked to surrender their life to Christ, ask him to be Lord and saviour of their life. If they do this, God will make them alive with Christ/ accept them as his children, EVEN WHEN they are dead in transgression/ sin.( Eph2:5)
The sin in the converts life is then IRRELEVANT to their rightstanding before God, for the converts righteousness before God is faith in his son, not righteousness of obeying the law/ not committing sin( rom3:20-22, gal2:14&5, phil3:9 etc)
The convert who has surrendered their life to Christ cannot use such grace as a licence to sin, for they now hate the sin that binds them, they in their heart do not want it, for they have been born again and chosen their master(rom6:15) And the law God desires them to follow us written in their minds and placed on their hearts( heb10:16)
The new convert must now cross over from being a slave of sin when they come to Christ into a slave of righteousness LEADING to holiness( rom6:17-19). Note, once you have crossed over and become slaves to righteousness leading to holiness, you are NOT sinless in your flesh. If you were, you would not be being led into holiness, you would already be perfectly holy.
This crossing over is key, and is to be achieved by in your heart knowing Christ is your rightstanding before God. Sin/ breaking Gods laws are totally irrelevant to your rightstanding before God( rom3:20, gal2:21, rom10:4, etc)
This crossing over from one state to the other takes time, and during this time you will be seen to be an evident sinner( gal2:16&17) But you must ignore voices in your head that tell you, you cannot be a Christian because of your Imperfections/sin. The devil puts them there.
For when people come to Christ, some sin can immediately cease, for it does not have that much of a hold on your life, but other sin, that you may have been a slave to for decades does, and victory is seen over this sin by standing by faith in the son of God who loved you and gave himself for you. For certain sin must be dealt with in order for you to cross over from being a slave of sin when you come to Christ, into a slave if righteousness LEADING to holiness. For by its very nature it will stop you moving forward in the Christian life, for it will utterly dominate your life if not dealt with. I E alcoholism is a good example
You MUST NOT rebuild in your mind, what Paul sought to destroy, and believe your sin/ observance of the law, will decide your rightstanding before God. If you turn back to that, you will simply prove you are a lawbreaker/sinner( gal2:17)
According to Pauls message, this is the way to see victory over sin in your life.
Such people who have surrendered their lives to Christ from their heart don't need to be told by anyone they must obey Gods laws, for they in their heart want to live as God desires them to live. Such people will never be judged on the basis of the law, they have been acquitted for they have a saviour from their sins. Their sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more( jerimiah 31:33, heb10:17)
Many fail to see the truth of the gospel message though, and some just want a religion of trying to attain heaven by obeying law. In truth, it is lifeless religion. God wants your heart, not you focusing on being good enough for him so you may enter heaven. A forlorn hope, for no one can be good enough for God by attempted lawkeeping

The kingdom of Heaven is within and will not be found by observation (outside of that). Victory is to overcome the world, which "Come out of her" is related to "Where art thou?" God asks. Where we are perceiving from...Entering heaven is not something outside, for it is in our midst...Seeking in Spirit and in Truth it can be found. He can only give us what we can see as possible, which requires becoming blind to see...

"Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God."
And
"we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. "

stuart lawrence · Sep 15, 2017

I hope no one was offended by me using the term slave of righteousness, I was only quoting Pauls words. They weren't offensive to him!
Happy to go with the KJV, as opposed to the NIV which says servant of righteousness if that sounds better

listed · Sep 15, 2017

LoveGodsWord said:
In relation to what is posted it is the interpretation of scripture put forward that is not biblical and rejected not the scripture. Please feel free to respond to the following; You claim that God’s Law (the 10 commandments) are abolished yet this interpretation contradicts God’s Word. This is because all through the Old Testament and New Testament scriptures the very standard in the Old Covenant, the New Covenant and the judgement to come is God’s Law (10 commandments) which the Word of God says are forever.

I don't reject the ten commandments. I'm under the new covenant which doesn't include the ten commandments as a rule of my relationship with God. I don't promote the idea the ten commandments are annihilated as you imply with your idea of abolished.

You hold the Christian will be included in the judgment of the wicked fully denying and disbelieving these words of Jesus, Who you claim to follow:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

The words and commandments of Jesus aren't found in Exodus 20.

God’s Word says that the Law of God (10 commandments) is the work of God (Exodus 32:16) whatsoever God does is forever nothing can be added to it or taken away (Ecclesiastes 3:14).

Then God's prophet Jeremiah and Jesus (God) both lied. Since both disagree with you what need is there to reply to the rest of your post? You clearly dismiss Scripture.

God's Law is perfect converting the soul (Psalms 19:7). It is the very foundation of the Old and New Covenants and the Judgement to come (Exodus 20:1:17, Hebrews 8:10-12; Exodus 36:26-27; Jeremiah 31:33-34; Hebrews 10:26-28; Romans 1:29-32;2:-9;2 Corinthians 5:10; Hebrews 9:27; Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1 John 3:4, Acts 17:31 ). God's Law was spoken by God himself to His people (Exodus 20:1-22). God’s 10 commandments are the spoken word of God (Exodus 20:1-22). God’s Word does not pass away (Matthew 25:35). Gods Law is still in force today (Psalms 111:7-8, Revelations 12:17, 14:12, 22:14, 1 John 3:5-8, 1 John 2:3-4; James 2:8-12 etc.). God’s Law reveals sin to us and the penalty of sin so we can see ourselves as we truly are sinners in need of a Saviour (Romans 6:23; Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4). It is the great standard of the judgement (Hebrews 10:26-28; Romans 1:29-32; Romans 2:2-13; 2 Corinthians 5:10; Hebrews 9:27; Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1 John 3:4, Acts 17:31). God's Law is our teacher revealing sin and brings us to Christ at the foot of the cross that we might be saved by faith by Him who loves us and washed us in His own blood as we have faith (Galatians 3:24; Revelations 1:5). God writes His Law in our hearts so that we become like him and we follow him because we love him (Hebrews 8:10-12) LOVE is the fulfilling (doing) of God's Law (Romans 13:10). This is why Jesus says to those that love him If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15). This also includes God's 4th commandment which is the 7th Day Sabbath.

John 14:15 in no way includes the ten commandments. Jesus didn't give them. John 1:17 clearly proves Jesus didn't give the ten commandments.

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

If this isn't true nothing John wrote can be used as a reliable witness. That means the Gospel of John, 1, 2, 3 John and Revelation must be disregarded as evidence.

It has just been shown in the scriptures provided above that;
(1) God’s Law (10 commandments) are forever.
(2) God’s Law (10 commandments) are the standard of the Old and New Covenants and the judgement to come.
(3) God’s Law (10 commandments) points out sin and righteousness and leads us to our Saviour.

So no God’s Law (10 commandments) are not abolished. Now let’s look at the scriptures that you provided?

You use Luke 24:44 and Hebrews 7:12 as your references for scripture to support your interpretation that God’s Law (10 commandments) are abolished. Let’s have a look at what the scriptures say and what they are talking about including the context.

Luke 24:44
He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.

The first problem I've got is your version's rendition of the Greek text omits a critical phrase "peri emou."

Within Luke Chapter 24, the context of Luke 24:44 is just after the resurrection of Jesus (v24), And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not. (v25), Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: (26), ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? (v27) And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Please pay attention to my bolded and enlarged "concerning himself" in your quote. This is vital. This and verse 44 are direct references to Matthew 5:17-18 Jesus spoke is the basis allowing for Hebrews 7:12 to be true.

Then continuing….

(v44), And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. (v45), Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, (v46), And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: (v47), And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (v48), And ye are witnesses of these things. (v49), And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Luke 24:44 is in reference the ceremonial laws of Moses and the prophets and the psalms that pointed to Jesus. (see Isaiah 53; Psalms 22; Leviticus 23). These where the shadows discussed earlier with you that where shadows of things to come that had their fulfilment and pointed to Jesus, his life, death, resurrection and ministration as our advocate and great High Priest in the Heavenly Sanctuary (Hebrews 8:1-5; 6-13; Hebrews 10:1-19; Colossians 2:14;17; Hebrews chapters 9; 10; John 1:29; 1 Corinthians 5:6-7; Romans 2:28-29).

I don't understand where you get "ceremonial laws of Moses" from. The ten commandments most definitely concern Jesus as a Jew. Those laws are called the laws of Moses.

Luke 24:44 does not say that Jesus has abolished the 10 commandments as the verse is in reference to the ceremonial laws of Moses that pointed to Jesus and not God’s Law (10 commandments)

Correct. What the verse does say is Jesus fulfilled (met the full requirements) of the ten commandments. This doesn't mean we have the right to sin. It also doesn't mean we are obligated to them, specifically the 4th, your real goal because no one here practices murder.

Now let’s look at Hebrews 7…

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

What law?

The context of Hebrews 7 once again is about the ceremonial laws of Moses in relation to the Levitical Priesthood pointing to Christ. Verses 11-14 Observe the necessity there was of raising up another priest, after the order of Melchisedec and not after the order of Aaron, by whom that perfection should come which could not come by the Levitical priesthood, which therefore must be changed, and the whole economy with it, v. 11, v. 12, etc. Here,(1). It is asserted that perfection could not come by the Levitical priesthood and the law. They could not put those who came to them into the perfect enjoyment of the good things they pointed out to them; they could only show them the way.(2). That therefore another priest must be raised up, after the order of Melchisedec, by whom, and his law of faith, perfection might come to all who obey him; and, blessed be God, that we may have perfect holiness and perfect happiness by Christ in the covenant of grace, according to the gospel, for we are complete in him.(3). It is asserted that the priesthood being changed there must of necessity be a change of the law; there being so near a relation between the priesthood and the law, the dispensation could not be the same under another priesthood; a new priesthood must be under a new regulation, managed in another way, and by rules proper to its nature and order.IV. It is not only asserted, but proved, that the priesthood and law are changed, v. 13, v. 14. The priesthood and law by which perfection could not come are abolished, and a priest has arisen, and a dispensation is now set up, by which true believers may be made perfect. Now that there is such a change is obvious.1. There is a change in the tribe of which the priesthood comes. Before, it was the tribe of Levi; but our great high priest sprang out of Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning the priesthood, v. 14. This change of the family shows a real change of the law of the priesthood.2. There is a change in the form and order of making the priests. Before, in the Levitical priesthood, they were made after the law of a carnal commandment; but our great high priest was made after the power of an endless life. The former law appointed that the office should descend, upon the death of the father, to his eldest son, according to the order of carnal or natural generation; for none of the high priests under the law were without father or mother, or without descent: they had not life and immortality in themselves. They had both beginning of days and end of life; and so the carnal commandment, or law of primogeniture, directed their succession, as it did in matters of civil right and inheritance. But the law by which Christ was constituted a priest, after the order of Melchisedec, was the power of an endless life. (Source: Matthew Henry Bible Commentary)

Matthew Henry can't be wrong. Matthew 5:17-18 is abut jots and tittles of the whole law which you must deny to promote your false doctrine. Matthew 5:17-18 makes no distinction or separation of any law.

Hebrews 7:12 does not say that Jesus has abolished the 10 commandments

Who said it did? Again you really mean annihilated as in blotted out of existence and memory. No one here makes such a claim.

In summary therefore based on the scripture provided God’s Law (10 commandments) are forever and the standard of the Old and New Covenant and the judgement to come. Luke 24:44 and Hebrews 7:12 do not support your interpretation that God’s Law (10 commandments) have been abolished. If you do not believe the scriptures provided in this post please respond. This also includes the 7th Day Sabbath.

Therefore in summary what is really said is Jeremiah and Jesus are both liars. Forgive me for not accepting that.

Wonder why not? Let’s discus it.

As for me I am pro man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Everything from the New Testament scriptures come from the Old Testament. The two great commandments which is to (1) love God and (2) love our fellow man come from the Old Testament writings found in Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18. These two great commandments however were summing up God’s Law (10 commandments). The first is your duty towards God (the first table Exodus 20:1-11) and the second is your duty towards your neighbour (2nd table Exodus 20:12-17) and is why Jesus says on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets (Matthew 22:36-40).

I would love to comment here. The problem is it would draw a report and suspension for stating the real truth.

The Jews (Pharisees/Lawyers) knew this already however as is referenced in Luke 10:25-28

Luke 10:25-28
25, And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 26, He said unto him, what is written in the law? How readest thou? 27, and he answering said <the Lawyer/Pharisee>, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself. 28, and he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Because this was indeed referring to the Old testament scriptures (Deut 6:5; Lev 19:18)
Notice again the same question asked by the rich young ruler in what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

Matthew 19:16-19
16, And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17, And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18, He saith unto him, which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

The context and full story of the above text are avoided allowing the twisting of the passages to mean one can attain salvation by obedience to the law by passing Jesus making both John and Jesus liars in John 10. Of course I don't need too mention OT Scripture is also disregarded.

Sorry but I don't have time to reply to the rest of you post.

stuart lawrence · Sep 15, 2017

But thanks be to God, that though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching you were given. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness
Rom6:17&18

Was Paul, by using such terminology speaking from the wilderness of his experience?
Had Paul not become blind so he may see?

Aseyesee · Sep 15, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
But thanks be to God, that though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching you were given. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness
Rom6:17&18

Was Paul, by using such terminology speaking from the wilderness of his experience?
Had Paul not become blind so he may see?

Servants do not abide in the house forever ...

stuart lawrence · Sep 15, 2017

Aseyesee said:
Servants do not abide in the house forever ...

But you said:

Slaves to righteousness is terminology best suited for the wilderness of ones experience.

I assume, in your view that includes the Apostle paul

Aseyesee · Sep 15, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
But you said:

Slaves to righteousness is terminology best suited for the wilderness of ones experience.

I assume, in your view that includes the Apostle paul

... no one is exempt from the process.

stuart lawrence · Sep 15, 2017

Aseyesee said:
... no one is exempt from the process.

OK
So you believe Paul wrote from the wilderness of his experience i guess

stuart lawrence · Sep 15, 2017

For those who are not clear about Pauls terminology.
God will accept you on the basis of faith in Christ, even when you are dead in transgression/ a slave to sin Eph2:5

An example of being a slave to sin.
You might be an alcoholic, and a wife beater, and a habitual thief. You may at the same time have multiple affairs. You are a slave to sin. Sin dominates your life. God will accept you as his child the moment you accept his Son as your saviour.
But can you stay in that state forever? I don't know any Christian, who would believe if there was absolutely no change in such a person as described three months say after they claimed to get converted would consider the person someone in a saved state.
Change has to come, not in order to receive salvation, but as a product of what you have received.
There is sin, that by its very nature will utterly consume your life and stop you from crossing over to where you need to be. That is what crossing over from being a slave of sin to a slave of righteousness means.
When you have crossed over, you still commit sin in your flesh, but not sin, as a continuous lifestyle that will block you from a relationship with Christ.
IE
Continuous affairs
Getting drunk every night
Being a habitual thief
Etc

Aseyesee · Sep 15, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
OK
So you believe Paul wrote from the wilderness of his experience i guess

Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.

stuart lawrence · Sep 15, 2017

Aseyesee said:
Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.

You seem reluctant to answer the question

JESUS and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

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