Did God institute High Priests, Baptism, Eucharist, Papacy?

parousia70

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But if you believe that Babylon refers to Rome, 1 Peter 5:13 I would tend to agree with you.

NT Babylon was 1st century Apostate Jerusalem, That "Great City, Spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, where our Lord was Crucified."
(Revelation 11:8)
 
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scottSTANLEY

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That salvation from the Orthodox POV is different than the sin debt idea...

Well basically we believe that Jesus Christ came to recreate what he created. That Christ is the man God walking in the Garden with Adam. We believe Christ entered the state of death to abolish death. To undo its eternal power over mankind. We do not believe in an angry Father having to be pacified.

Forgive me...
Please forgive me for not getting what you mean. How would His death abolish death? Do we stand before God and receive forgiveness because we believe in Christ? Or does believing and understanding Christ's death do something within the individual that allows us a boldness before God? If His death will undo death's power over me how would I apply that truth?
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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...
So that's it, King James,
A good Catholic Bible,
The Orthodox Study Bible.

Anything else could possibly lead you into error.
*CE is the same thing as Anno Domini--the year of the Lord--A.D.
HMN I don't know why I need to keep referring to this thread that the King James bible is the ONLY one with it's own theology going on! I haven't checked the other orthodox but you seem to be saying they are the same. That (where that thread points) would be the place to check the theology of each.
Casting crowns
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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Please forgive me for not getting what you mean. How would His death abolish death? Do we stand before God and receive forgiveness because we believe in Christ? Or does believing and understanding Christ's death do something within the individual that allows us a boldness before God? If His death will undo death's power over me how would I apply that truth?

We really dont think we will be questioned about our beliefs. We see the last Judgement being based on what Christ said in Matthew 25:31-46.

Forgive me...
 
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Monk Brendan

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HMN I don't know why I need to keep referring to this thread that the King James bible is the ONLY one with it's own theology going on! I haven't checked the other orthodox but you seem to be saying they are the same. That (where that thread points) would be the place to check the theology of each.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. But the Septuagint (written by Greeks) is the best OT to use for theology. Catholic and Orthodox Bibles, as well as the KJV, are the only ones to use the Greek text, as opposed to most of the Protestant Bibles you will find, which use the Masoretic text, which was written centuries after all of the NT had already been written.
 
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Monk Brendan

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How would His death abolish death?

Christ is RISEN! Jesus Christ, God incarnate died, and rose on the third day so that we can be raised from the dead with Him.
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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So, how does His death abolish death? Do you mean that if I believe as He would have me believe, He will just know that and count me as a sheep?

Believing as HE would have us to believe would take an amount of training. Salvation is not linked to knowledge in that way.

He was uncontainable. Death had no dominion over him, and was destroyed by HIS taking it upon himself. The dead rose from the grave.

Matthew 27:52-53
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.


Forgive me...
 
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scottSTANLEY

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Believing as HE would have us to believe would take an amount of training. Salvation is not linked to knowledge in that way.

He was uncontainable. Death had no dominion over him, and was destroyed by HIS taking it upon himself. The dead rose from the grave.

Matthew 27:52-53
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.


Forgive me...
Believing as HE would have us to believe would take an amount of training. Salvation is not linked to knowledge in that way.

He was uncontainable. Death had no dominion over him, and was destroyed by HIS taking it upon himself. The dead rose from the grave.

Matthew 27:52-53
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.


Forgive me...
In my understanding, if I know God is love, and believe He has never condemned me, but was always forgiving, then in His presence I will have boldness knowing His love. Coming before God thinking He is angry with me would bring death. You are not explaining how life and death are applied to people. You don't seem to know the mechanics of salvation.
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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In my understanding, if I know God is love, and believe He has never condemned me, but was always forgiving, then in His presence I will have boldness knowing His love. Coming before God thinking He is angry with me would bring death. You are not explaining how life and death are applied to people. You don't seem to know the mechanics of salvation.
Do you know the "mechanics" of theosis?

Forgive me...
 
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AnticipateHisComing

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There is nothing sanctimonious about slandering the Pope with vicious lies.
There is nothing sanctimonious about what the Pope said about people with a differing view point than him on global warming. In fact there is nothing spiritual about it. It is political though and your Pope does engage in political debates. That would make him a politician.

It you think my statement vicious lies, it is what the main stream media reported which is the media the Pope takes advantage of to get his message to the world.
 
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AnticipateHisComing

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So, for the folks like us who are generations removed form the apostles, this passage does not apply in your view?

If it does apply today, maybe you could cite one or two of these "spoken word traditions of the apostles" that you believe we are to be following?
You see for the last 500 years we have something called a printing press so we don't need to rely on oral transfer of teachings. All the necessary teachings God would require of us has been contained in scripture that is now closed.

Can you list one oral tradition that is not contained in scripture and is necessary for salvation?
Right... Traditions of the Old Covenant Jewish Elders does not = Traditions of the New Covenant Apostles.
Hopefully we can agree on that!
The 12 apostles are gone. How about this one. Traditions of the OT priests are the same as traditions of NT priests.
Lastly, I know you want to defend the Papacy, but can you make an argument against the one presented in the OP?
Sola Scriptura is an oxymoron.
I defend the Following, which you have yet to refute:
I started this thread with an argument. That is what this thread is about. You jump in and wish to change the thread to be about Sola Scriptura. If you wish to start a thread about that, feel free. I have already done that.

As to refuting your list of scripture verses, why should I feel inclined to go off topic and do that when you make no attempt to argue the OP?
 
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kepha31

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There is nothing sanctimonious about what the Pope said about people with a differing view point than him on global warming. In fact there is nothing spiritual about it. It is political though and your Pope does engage in political debates. That would make him a politician.
Document "what the Pope said about people with a differing view point than him on global warming." I spoon fed you two reliable sources that give the full context of everything he says. Here is the official encyclical ON CARE FOR OUR COMMON HOME You want to assume "politics" is in it and are probably not aware such an encyclical exits. Your information is based on cheap tabloids with an anti-Catholic agenda.

The Pope is neither left or right, he is bound to follow Catholic Social Teaching, which makes protty cult conspiracies of a one world government look really stupid.

Catholic social teaching is a central and essential element of our faith. Its roots are in the Hebrew prophets who announced God's special love for the poor and called God's people to a covenant of love and justice. It is a teaching founded on the life and words of Jesus Christ, who came "to bring glad tidings to the poor . . . liberty to captives . . . recovery of sight to the blind"(Lk 4:18-19), and who identified himself with "the least of these," the hungry and the stranger (cf. Mt 25:45). Catholic social teaching is built on a commitment to the poor. This commitment arises from our experiences of Christ in the Eucharist.

The Pope cannot deviate from this teaching, expressed in many encyclicals. Social Encyclicals

It you think my statement vicious lies, it is what the main stream media reported which is the media the Pope takes advantage of to get his message to the world.
Your statement is typically cultural, not factual.


good-evening-its-6-oclock-and-heres-what-we-want-you-to-think.jpg


brace-yourselves.jpg
 
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AnticipateHisComing

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Was not the High Priesthood carried on, male to male in direct descendancy? If Aaron can pass on his role, why can't the Bishop of Rome? Please show me Book, Chapter and Verse where God has forbidden this.
By this I was merely challenging you to THINK!
I did something way better. I quoted scripture which is what you asked for, only because you thought it did not exist and I would fail your request. Of course you had no response to it.
Now, to entertain your thought that scripture says nothing on the subject, there is plenty. As already posted, Hebrews 7 ends the concept of a human authority over the Church. As other scripture says, Jesus is now the head of the Church.

Hebrews 7:11 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? 12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also. 13 He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. 14 For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. 15 And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16 one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is declared:

“You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek.”[a]
18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

20 And it was not without an oath! Others became priests without any oath, 21 but he became a priest with an oath when God said to him:

“The Lord has sworn
and will not change his mind:
You are a priest forever.’”
22 Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantor of a better covenant.

23 Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely[c] those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

26 Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men in all their weakness; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.

You bring your pastor gifts? I thought that had been undone by the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem. And yet you carry on with it. Why? Isn't that also a part of the imperfect LAW?
"By this I was merely challenging you to THINK!"

Um, it was a rhetorical question.
 
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AnticipateHisComing

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Document "what the Pope said about people with a differing view point than him on global warming."
Google "pope climate change deniers stupid".
I spoon fed you two reliable sources that give the full context of everything he says.
You posted links to the home pages of two web sites. If you are so certain the Pope did not speak what would be banned on CF, why don't you just quote what he said.
Your information is based on cheap tabloids with an anti-Catholic agenda.
ABC News, New York Times, BBC, ... sure.
The Pope is neither left or right,
That is a good one. What does he say about divorced and gays? How much does he promote social justice? What does he promote about the environment? What has he said about capitalism? What does he say about other religions?
Your statement is typically cultural, not factual.
You are blind to the news if you think that Pope Francis does not comment and delve into politics.
 
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parousia70 said in post #101:

NT Babylon was 1st century Apostate Jerusalem, That "Great City, Spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, where our Lord was Crucified." (Revelation 11:8)

Note that while the corrupt aspects of 1st century Jerusalem are included in what Revelation's symbolic "Babylon" (Revelation chapters 17-18) represents, it represents much more than just the corrupt aspects of 1st century Jerusalem. For 1st century Jerusalem just by itself didn't reign over the kings of the earth (Revelation 17:18). Nor was 1st century Jerusalem the only place where people bought merchandise (Revelation 18:11). Nor had 1st century Jerusalem just by itself corrupted the entire world (Revelation 18:3). Nor had 1st century Jerusalem been continuously supported by the empires of fallen mankind throughout history (Revelation 17:9-10). Instead, Revelation's symbolic "Babylon" represents all of fallen mankind's corrupt political (Revelation 17:18), economic (Revelation 18:11) and religious (Revelation 18:24) systems throughout the earth (Revelation 18:3) and throughout history (Revelation 17:9-10).

In Revelation 11:8 and Revelation 16:19a the great city is Jerusalem, where Jesus Christ was crucified. But in Revelation 21:10 the great city is New Jerusalem, which is now in heaven. And in Revelation 14:8, Revelation 17:18 and Revelation 18:10-21 the great city is the symbolic harlot/city of Babylon. When it's destroyed, it will be found no more at all (Revelation 18:21), forever (Revelation 19:3), unlike Jerusalem, which was found again after its only-temporary destruction in 70 AD.

parousia70 said in post #101:

NT Babylon was 1st century Apostate Jerusalem . . .

Regarding "NT Babylon", do you mean Revelation's symbolic "Babylon" (Revelation chapters 17-18)?

If so, note the 10 kings of the future Antichrist's empire will destroy with fire what Revelation's "Babylon" represents (Revelation 17:16-17) when they destroy the cities of the nations (Revelation 16:19), probably with nukes (and probably with Fission-Fusion-Fission, "FFF", or "666", nukes, "F" representing the number 6 in English gematria), at the time of the 7th vial (Revelation 16:17,19), which will be the final event (Revelation 16:17) of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before Jesus Christ's Second Coming (Revelation 19:2 to 20:6, Matthew 24:29-31). They could do this under the direction of Lucifer/Satan (Isaiah 14:17,12), who could want to leave only a literal "scorched earth" for Jesus to return to.

Near the very end of the future Tribulation, Lucifer (employing the ancient lies of Gnosticism) could say to the Antichrist and his 10 kings something like: "Our great battle against the evil, tyrant god YHWH is about to begin [Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19], a battle which we will win, and so we will be able to escape YHWH's prison house, this material universe, and return to the wholly-spiritual Pleroma [i.e. Heaven]. So let us now destroy this prison cell, this foul planet, and let us, as it were, burn up all the gewgaws which we have hung upon our cell walls. Let us burn up all our great cities, all our magnificent systems. Let us break all our chains of attachment to this vile, physical realm, that we might more freely ascend back to our rightful place in the Pleroma [cf. Isaiah 14:13-14]".

Of course this will be a lie. For at His Second Coming, Jesus Christ (who is YHWH: John 10:30, Zechariah 14:3-4) will completely defeat all the unsaved armies of the world, arrayed against YHWH (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19-21). And Jesus will have Lucifer bound in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-6, Isaiah 14:15), a time period commonly called the Millennium. During that time, Jesus will restore ruined parts of the earth and make them like the Garden of Eden (Ezekiel 36:35, Isaiah 51:3). And after the Millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-15), God will create a New Heaven (a new 1st heaven, a new sky/atmosphere for the earth) and a New Earth (a new surface for the earth) (Revelation 21:1). And then God will descend from the 3rd heaven in the literal city of New Jerusalem to live with saved humanity on the New Earth (Revelation 21:2-4).
 
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