I am as righteous as Jesus

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The Times

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To be justified is to be declared righteous.

Declaring a believer as righteous, does not mean the person is rigtheous.

Justification will always account an unrighteous believer as righteous, because of the rigtheous one Jesus Christ. However without Christ's righteousness as a covering, the Law condemns that same person because of their unrigtheousness.

The justification doesn't say that we are rigtheous, nor does it imply that we become rigtheous, rather it is transfer judgement away from us and towards the Lamb of God, which is 101 Christianity. Moses instructed that the blood of a lamb be on the door posts, to transfer judgement away from them.

Therefore justification is the transfer of judgement to another, so that we don't have to face the music. I look at it as me a coward and unrighteous person, who is being pardoned from my own short comings, due to another person's rigtheousness, who took my place, in order to clear/pardon me from condemnation.

21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

To be made and to be rightheous are two totally different things. Until we finish our race of faith and keep the faith even onto death, through a life long sanctification by the hands of the Holy Ghost, then only after death and at resurrecting, can the rigtheous Lord give us our crown of righteousness. Since we have not finished our race, we can't claim righteousness and neither is rigtheous for us to claim in this temporal life.
 
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Swan7

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14For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Amen. I agree with the scripture.

The second great change by Jesus Christ's death on the cross is not positional.It is experimental.

I cannot accept this as it is another person's view that seems outside of God's will and contrary to His plan. I'll have to politely disagree because nothing God does is "experimental". He knows what He is doing and the Word can testify to that.

A person may be redeemed but not reconciled to God.

Do you mean for example, a person can be a "Christian" but have no relationship with God?
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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I cannot accept this as it is another person's view that seems outside of God's will and contrary to His plan. I'll have to politely disagree because nothing God does is "experimental". He knows what He is doing and the Word can testify to that.
Experiential (typo sorry)
 
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The Times

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This is just silly. So much going round about when the answers are simply in the Bible. This just so happens to be one of them (I posted another on the 1st page):

Ambassadors for Christ
2 Corrinthians 5:18-21
"Everything is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: That is, in Christ, God was reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed the message of reconciliation to us. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, certain that God is appealing through us. We plead on Christ’s behalf, “Be reconciled to God.” He made the One who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."
:yellowheart:

Might become is not in this temporal life, but after we die to be risen in our sinless state. This is when we finish our race of faith, when we sign out from this temporal life.

Paul writes....

For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time for my departure is near. 7I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—
 
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iwbswiaihl2

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1 Cor 1:30-31 30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— 31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”
1 John 2: 28 And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming. 29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him. Just as several have said it is clear to many that the statement originally made to begin is true. If we are not as righteous as Jesus we are not in Jesus by grace through faith. As v30/31 state in 1 Cor 1 He is our righteousness and believers being placed into Him thus are as righteous as He is. And as John stated when believers are placed into Jesus their lifestyles will be changed as they grow and by this change we see the transformation taking place gradually and hopefully progressively. Too many people who claim to be in Christ have never changed their lifestyles which is evidence of having never been regenerated by the Holy Spirit. Just as Phil 2:12 says "For it is God working in us to will and to do of His good pleasure". Ever good thought comes from Him and we must begin to obey them or else there has been no transformation. Read the 3rd chapter of 1 John and hear John say in the 10th verse these words "10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother." But to point being stated, every believer is as righteous as Jesus or else they are not in Him, that does not mean that believers will not sin but it surely does mean that their practices will be progressively more like He walked or there is no growth. Luke 6:46 why call Me, Lord, Lord and do not the thing which I say?
 
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iwbswiaihl2

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Hopefully you'll never catch me saying that I am as righteous as Jesus.
Surely this is not well thought out, why would someone never want to say they hope they will never be as righteous as Jesus? One can be sure if they don't want to be as righteous as Jesus they will never be?
I will assume that it not the conclusion you meant!
 
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Hammster

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Declaring a believer as righteous, does not mean the person is rigtheous.

Justification will always account an unrighteous believer as righteous, because of the rigtheous one Jesus Christ. However without Christ's righteousness as a covering, the Law condemns that same person because of their unrigtheousness.

The justification doesn't say that we are rigtheous, nor does it imply that we become rigtheous, rather it is transfer judgement away from us and towards the Lamb of God, which is 101 Christianity. Moses instructed that the blood of a lamb be on the door posts, to transfer judgement away from them.

Therefore justification is the transfer of judgement to another, so that we don't have to face the music. I look at it as me a coward and unrighteous person, who is being pardoned from my own short comings, due to another person's rigtheousness, who took my place, in order to clear/pardon me from condemnation.

21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

To be made and to be rightheous are two totally different things. Until we finish our race of faith and keep the faith even onto death, through a life long sanctification by the hands of the Holy Ghost, then only after death and at resurrecting, can the rigtheous Lord give us our crown of righteousness. Since we have not finished our race, we can't claim righteousness and neither is rigtheous for us to claim in this temporal life.
So what changes upon death? We won't sin any more, but that doesn't change our past. And right now, we are just living our future past, if that makes sense. So finishing the race just means there's more sin which Christ paid for anyway.
 
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The Times

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So what changes upon death? We won't sin any more, but that doesn't change our past. And right now, we are just living our future past, if that makes sense. So finishing the race just means there's more sin which Christ paid for anyway.

Finishing the race according to Paul was when he reached the end of his temporal life, whilst keeping the faith.

Jesus said in his Revelation to......

be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. (Rev 2:10)

Finishing the race of faith, in context to what Paul, Jesus and John said, is to migrate from this temporal sinful state, that continually requires the cross of salvation, to proceed to the permanent sinless state and to be forever present with the Lord, in his Father's Heavenly house. The permanent dwelling results in no more sin and therefore no longer requires the redemptive works of the cross, rather that God will be all in all and it is at this point and in this eternal realm that the glorified will be declared as righteous.

now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. (Hebrews 9:26-29)

So the second time for the Apostles who had seen the Lord the first time, when he was on Earth, he will appear the second time (second coming) to them, after their temporal earthly bodies die, where this time they no longer are presented before him as sinners, but rather as sinless saints, who are the many Holy Ones that accompany him (Zechariah 14:5)

Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. (1 John 3:2)

The post resurrection state is a glorified sinless state, where the resurrected will be clothed with righteousness.

Death changes the realm of existence, where our earthly tent is laid to rest and we are clothed with a heavenly tent, which prevents the past from coming into play, because the power of the cross had absolved the past, through the reconditioning of the heart of stone to a heart of flesh, whilst the believer lived in the earthly tent.

2 Corinthians 5
New International Version
Awaiting the New Body

1For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.2Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, 3because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked.4For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

6Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7For we live by faith, not by sight. 8We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. 10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Sola Scripture becomes the primary witness, to why we ought not claim righteousness whilst we live in the earth dirt body, because we have yet to sign out with our own blood and cannot recieve our eternal inheritance, until we die and are judged and are counted worthy by the rigtheous Judge, to receive our crown of righteousness.

they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator/witness. 17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. (Hebrews 9)
 
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Neogaia777

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It is not our own righteousness, but Christ's righteousness in us...

As long as we always remember that, we will do very well... But, if we lose sight of that, we can be self-righteous...

Christ's righteousness alone, and not ours at all, not even one bit, Christ's righteousness in us, working through us, by God's spirit... Never our own... Yet his righteousness might be seen in us, and others might think it's you, and you must always try and correct them on that...

God Bless!
 
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Surely this is not well thought out, why would someone never want to say they hope they will never be as righteous as Jesus? One can be sure if they don't want to be as righteous as Jesus they will never be?
I will assume that it not the conclusion you meant!

That isn't what dreadnought said! The words am and want are NOT the same.
 
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rockytopva

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I believe in the seven churches as ages...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

And the Lord has issues with each congregation. The Pentecostal Holiness church in which I belong use to have rules that the church have so many revivals in a year. These revivals use to go for weeks and would leave one spiritually uplifted. The old Methodist revival in the 1800's was the same way.

Now... I am hard pressed finding good revivals and Christian conferences. I find that many of these churches have went "Laodicean" and most only have two services a week, Sunday and Wednesday.

I find too many issues with the times and the seasons to declare myself as righteous as Jesus.
 
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Hammster

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Finishing the race according to Paul was when he reached the end of his temporal life, whilst keeping the faith.

Jesus said in his Revelation to......

be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. (Rev 2:10)

Finishing the race of faith, in context to what Paul, Jesus and John said, is to migrate from this temporal sinful state, that continually requires the cross of salvation, to proceed to the permanent sinless state and to be forever present with the Lord, in his Father's Heavenly house. The permanent dwelling results in no more sin and therefore no longer requires the redemptive works of the cross, rather that God will be all in all and it is at this point and in this eternal realm that the glorified will be declared as righteous.

now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. (Hebrews 9:26-29)

So the second time for the Apostles who had seen the Lord the first time, when he was on Earth, he will appear the second time (second coming) to them, after their temporal earthly bodies die, where this time they no longer are presented before him as sinners, but rather as sinless saints, who are the many Holy Ones that accompany him (Zechariah 14:5)

Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. (1 John 3:2)

The post resurrection state is a glorified sinless state, where the resurrected will be clothed with righteousness.

Death changes the realm of existence, where our earthly tent is laid to rest and we are clothed with a heavenly tent, which prevents the past from coming into play, because the power of the cross had absolved the past, through the reconditioning of the heart of stone to a heart of flesh, whilst the believer lived in the earthly tent.

2 Corinthians 5
New International Version
Awaiting the New Body

1For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.2Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, 3because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked.4For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

6Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7For we live by faith, not by sight. 8We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. 10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Sola Scripture becomes the primary witness, to why we ought not claim righteousness whilst we live in the earth dirt body, because we have yet to sign out with our own blood and cannot recieve our eternal inheritance, until we die and are judged and are counted worthy by the rigtheous Judge, to receive our crown of righteousness.

they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator/witness. 17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. (Hebrews 9)
I appreciate the detailed answer, but I don't think it addressed the question.

I'll try it this way. In heaven, when we finish the race and are given new bodies and are sinless, etc., we are still declared righteous. We still have no righteousness of our own because of our past.

So we are declared righteous now (justification) and will still be declared righteous then. The only difference will be our bodies, and perhaps rewards, depending on how that's understood. But for the point of the thread, there will be no difference in our state of righteousness because it's never our righteousness to begin with.
 
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dreadnought

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Surely this is not well thought out, why would someone never want to say they hope they will never be as righteous as Jesus? One can be sure if they don't want to be as righteous as Jesus they will never be?
I will assume that it not the conclusion you meant!
Jesus has always been righteous. None of us can say that.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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I'm doing a LOT better, thanks for asking. :oldthumbsup:

I will pray that you will be 100%.

You said:
Hey, no problem! Have a gooder!:sparkles:

Thank you. *Smiles* I like the comment "gooder." That is a new phrase for me.
Lately the past two years I have been hearing the phrase: "Have a good one."
This phrase is funny to me because it could be taken as being whatever you want it to mean.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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I really need to start reading 1 Corinthians 13 before I come on to the threads; That and I need to be well rested. I apologize to folks here if I interrupted the thread in some way yesterday. Let's continue to discuss the truth of God's Word in love and respect.

I apologize if I caused any hard feelings as a result of me.

Peace and love be unto you all.
 
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The Times

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I appreciate the detailed answer, but I don't think it addressed the question.

I'll try it this way. In heaven, when we finish the race and are given new bodies and are sinless, etc., we are still declared righteous. We still have no righteousness of our own because of our past.

So we are declared righteous now (justification) and will still be declared righteous then. The only difference will be our bodies, and perhaps rewards, depending on how that's understood. But for the point of the thread, there will be no difference in our state of righteousness because it's never our righteousness to begin with.

Justification and sanctification only applies when we are in our earthly bodies. In this temporal life it is Christ Jesus as righteousness, in the post resurrection glorified state, it is the righteousness of the individual from that point to eternity.

Christ crucified for the sins of many is in this temporal life. In the glorified state there is.....no sin.

Sin does not exist in Heaven.

Therefore there is no application for Justification.....

they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
 
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