Is it better to never have been born then to live with the possibility of going to hell?

Rajni

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How can followers of other faiths respond to God's love, shown in Christ, if they have never heard of him, or the Gospel or been given the opportunity to respond?



Hell is knowing who God is, because you've seen him face to face, knowing that the Gospel you heard an rejected is true after all, knowing that Jesus could have forgiven your sins, but you chose to reject him.
Without Jesus a sinner cannot be reconciled to the Father; Jesus is the one who saves, John 14:6, Acts 4:12. If someone doesn't come to Jesus, they will not receive eternal life - and so suffer the wages of sin, which is death, Romans 6:23. Jesus said that whoever turned to him would have eternal life.

How much people of other religions - or children, or people with learning disabilities - understand, and whether they are able to turn to God, is not for us to judge.
But the solution to being without God for eternity, is to turn to him, trust in him and receive his forgiveness and eternal life.
To be honest, I'm not sure how any of the above addresses that to which it was responding.
 
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Rajni

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Forgive me, but let's all feel sorry for those that think this way. As my sister Janet says, "WAAH."
You're forgiven. Now, as a monk, do you have something more constructive to contribute to the conversation? •‿•
 
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Adstar

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I know; that's my point.
He is love, and in love, he created all of us in his image. He did not, I believe, create someone just to send them to hell, knowing that they had no choice, or say, in the matter.

I agree..


Me neither.
The OP asked if it would be better not to be born at all than to be born and destined for hell. I don't believe anyone is created destined for hell. If a person wants to know God and to be with him forever - have eternal life - they have an opportunity to do something about it. If they'd never been born, they wouldn't have.

I agree..


And why would they want to read the word of a god like that? If they believe that God can send someone to hell just on a whim; that he allowed them to be born and then decided to pack them off to hell just for fun, why would anyone want to know someone like that?

Because the Word of God would dispell the idea that God sends people to hell on a whim..
 
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Adstar

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Forgive me, but let's all feel sorry for those that think this way. As my sister Janet says, "WAAH."

Why waste time replying like this?
Indeed why am i wasting time replying to this ???
 
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Strong in Him

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To be honest, I'm not sure how any of the above addresses that to which it was responding.

Christians believe that Jesus is the Way, the truth and the life, John 14:6, the only way to the Father, John 14:6 and only name by which we can be saved, Acts 4:12.
Christians believe that Jesus gives eternal life, John 3:16, John 3:36, 1 John 5:12.
Christians believe that we were, and are, separated from God by sin, and that Christ came to die for sinners, Romans 5:6-8 and reconcile us to the Father, 2 Corinthians 5:20.
This is heaven - having forgiveness of sins, eternal life and being reconciled to him forever.

We need to dialogue with, listen to and respect other religions, but if Jesus is THE Way, people can only come to God through him. I, for one, am not going to worry about a "hell" taught by Hindus/Sikhs/Muslims; Jesus is my Saviour and the way to God. But if followers of these religions don't know, and have never had a chance to accept, that; how can they be judged for actually rejecting it?
 
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Rajni

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Christians believe that Jesus is the Way, the truth and the life, John 14:6, the only way to the Father, John 14:6 and only name by which we can be saved, Acts 4:12.
Christians believe that Jesus gives eternal life, John 3:16, John 3:36, 1 John 5:12.
Christians believe that we were, and are, separated from God by sin, and that Christ came to die for sinners, Romans 5:6-8 and reconcile us to the Father, 2 Corinthians 5:20.
This is heaven - having forgiveness of sins, eternal life and being reconciled to him forever.

We need to dialogue with, listen to and respect other religions, but if Jesus is THE Way, people can only come to God through him. I, for one, am not going to worry about a "hell" taught by Hindus/Sikhs/Muslims; Jesus is my Saviour and the way to God. But if followers of these religions don't know, and have never had a chance to accept, that; how can they be judged for actually rejecting it?
I'm not speaking of judging anyone for rejecting anything. Perhaps you misunderstood my message.
 
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NothingIsImpossible

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I can't help but think about the fact that the majority of people who have ever lived (and I'm not talking 51% to 49%, the margin is MUCH wider) have gone to or are going to hell. Hell is eternal torment that one cannot escape.

So how is it not better to have never lived at all then to live?
I didn't get a chance to read all 100+ messages but there are many things that if you ponder can make it impossible for you to fathom because its just beyond our mind and our understanding. I used to think about that same thing to. I used to think it was unfair that I could die and up in hell, even if I thought I was saved. It wasn't my fault I was born.

But then I realized these kinds of questions/thoughts are just to hard for us to understand or to even handle. And they are to some degree non-sensical. I mean if I was not born I wouldn't know about heaven or hell anyways. So its not like non-existent me could be like "I'm not going to be life one day because I don't want to possibly end up in hell!".

Though it does bring up a conundrum for me about having kids. My wife and I would "make" a child. So the fact they would have such a ending of heaven or hell means it was because we gave them life (granted we know God is Who really gave them life). But I can't focus on that because at the end of the day we all are individuals who have free will to make the choice of where we end up. God decides based on our heart but we still have the will to believe in God or not.

So when someone dies and ends up in hell they can't be like "Man I wish I had never been born!" because they had the choice to be saved or not. Dying isn't 50/50 thing of "Maybe". Its decided before you day by the person.

And honestly I don't doubt myself anymore or worry about hell personally. I know I am heaven bound as a christian (I didn't always think that). Though I do not believe in OSAS, but thats another topic.
 
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Rajni

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So when someone dies and ends up in hell they can't be like "Man I wish I had never been born!" because they had the choice to be saved or not. Dying isn't 50/50 thing of "Maybe". Its decided before you day by the person.
But did they have the choice to be born or not?
 
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NothingIsImpossible

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But did they have the choice to be born or not?
No. But nothing they can do about it. If they really aren't happy or believe they are hell bound I guess they could always blame their parents. And really you don't even have a choice once born until you old enough that parents let you make your own decisions.
 
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DarkSoul999

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Yes. For each one. And he listed to each prayer first
then He formed the world and planned out each moment.

That might be believable for those who have not experienced a lifetime of constant humiliation.
 
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SkyWriting

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That might be believable for those who have not experienced a lifetime of constant humiliation.

That's not hard to do. Anyone can use that response to the world.
It's easy.
 
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2tim_215

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I think that the only way to reconcile this is if you recognize the great sacrifice that Jesus made for us. He suffered more than any of us could ever possibly suffer and what for? His love for mankind. When you realize this, that "God so loved the world . . ." that who soever believeth in him, should not perish but have etrernal life". If you believe this to be true, how could you not choose life? Again, I don't believe anyone is really predestined for hell (sorry Calvin), they choose it. And why would anyone choose it? I can almost promise you, you are not forced to go. you have a choice. It's just not in God's (Jesus) character. to force it on anyone which would be a terrible thing if He did.
 
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Rajni

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I think that the only way to reconcile this is if you recognize the great sacrifice that Jesus made for us. He suffered more than any of us could ever possibly suffer and what for? His love for mankind. When you realize this, that "God so loved the world . . ." that who soever believeth in him, should not perish but have etrernal life". If you believe this to be true, how could you not choose life? Again, I don't believe anyone is really predestined for hell (sorry Calvin), they choose it. And why would anyone choose it? I can almost promise you, you are not forced to go. you have a choice. It's just not in God's (Jesus) character. to force it on anyone which would be a terrible thing if He did.
It’s precisely because of how great a sacrifice Jesus made that having hell in the picture is so illogical. All that suffering he endured and still there will be souls lost? After all he went through for those souls? Seriously?

As for choosing hell, no one has even seen it that they’d be making an informed choice in its favor. If it is real, and if it is as bad as people say it is, then no sane person would choose it. If they do choose it, they’re insane, and therefore not making the choice with a sound mind, something a God of mercy would indeed take into account.


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2tim_215

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It’s precisely because of how great a sacrifice Jesus made that having hell in the picture is so illogical. All that suffering he endured and still there will be souls lost? After all he went through for those souls? Seriously?

As for choosing hell, no one has even seen it that they’d be making an informed choice in its favor. If it is real, and if it is as bad as people say it is, then no sane person would choose it. If they do choose it, they’re insane, and therefore not making the choice with a sound mind, something a God of mercy would indeed take into account.


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Which is why He gives us so many opportunities to change and/or figure it out. I remember one day a while back I asked an elder from the church I used to go to the following question: I said to him if I had one choice in my hand to go to heaven and in the other hand I knew I'd be going to hell if I took the other choice, how could anyone choose hell? I couldn't understand how anyone would choose hell. He said there are those who would based on scripture. I think a very important point here is that there are some that would (even though it may be incomprehensible to us).

What about Satan worshipers for example (the church of Satan) or other cults that are anti-God/Christ? I don't know what their numbers are (obviously a minority). But what about those who just say don't know (probably many of those)? Well, then all I can say is that assuming the Bible is true and I'm interpreting it properly, I fear for the souls of those to figure it out and would pray that they receive the knowledge of the truth and I'm sure they'll have plenty of opportunities to do so.

Unfortunately, there will be those who just don't care I guess and there is nothing that can be done for them. I do agree with you regarding those who may "not know". Unfortunately there are those who don't know and there are those who don't care. If they care to search out the truth and making it an important part of their life, God will find his way to them.
 
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Strong in Him

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I'm not speaking of judging anyone for rejecting anything.

You did previously talk of Christianity threatening hell for those who don't comply.
I'm just trying to explain what I, and I believe Christianity, teaches about hell - that it is where those who die in their sins, having rejected God and his gift of forgiveness, will find themselves. Not because God created them for hell, they were predestined for it or they are being punished for "non compliance", but because they had been given/shown the Gospel, told that the only way to be forgiven and be right with God is through Jesus and had deliberately rejected it, not been interested or said that they would save themselves - maybe through good deeds, or whatever.
So hell, I believe is a) knowing - after death - the truth about God, yourself and sin and knowing it is too late to repent and you must face the consequences of your choices, and b) avoidable.

I mentioned other religions because you spoke of "Islam's hell."
The Bible is clear who God is, who Jesus is and the consequences of rejecting them - so, as Christians, I don't think an "Islam's hell" is something we need to worry about.
 
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Rajni

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You did previously talk of Christianity threatening hell for those who don't comply.
Very true.

I'm just trying to explain what I, and I believe Christianity, teaches about hell - that it is where those who die in their sins, having rejected God and his gift of forgiveness, will find themselves. Not because God created them for hell, they were predestined for it or they are being punished for "non compliance", but because they had been given/shown the Gospel, told that the only way to be forgiven and be right with God is through Jesus and had deliberately rejected it, not been interested or said that they would save themselves - maybe through good deeds, or whatever.

So hell, I believe is a) knowing - after death - the truth about God, yourself and sin and knowing it is too late to repent and you must face the consequences of your choices, and b) avoidable.
Yes, this is one of many views regarding the nature of hell and how one ends up there.

I mentioned other religions because you spoke of "Islam's hell."
The Bible is clear who God is, who Jesus is and the consequences of rejecting them - so, as Christians, I don't think an "Islam's hell" is something we need to worry about.

True, to Christians, the bible seems clear on Christian teachings (even though there isn't a whole lot of agreement therein).

However, it’s the nature of any religion to think that their sacred texts and teachings are clear.

For instance, a Muslim could say that the Quran is clear who God is, who Mohammed is and the consequences of rejecting them, and that as Muslims, he wouldn’t think that “Christianity’s hell” is something Muslims need to worry about.

My point is that if it were to turn out that some other religion’s hell is the real one, then the phrase to which I was originally responding—“hell is a problem, the gospel is the solution”—isn’t quite so simple.

Granted, not holding a belief in endless post-mortem torment helps me handle the above uncertainty a bit more easily than I otherwise would. If I were absolutely convinced that there really was an endless hell—regardless of which religion’s hell it was—I’d be a basket-case because there’s no actual way of knowing (that’s probably why it’s called “faith” and “belief” rather than “knowledge”) which one it is or isn't so I could avoid it.
 
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2tim_215

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Something perhaps worth pondering (From Ecclesiastes 12):

Ecclesiastes 12:5-7(KJV)
5 Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:
6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Is it possible that when a person dies who's not a believer his spirit returns to God and if so, what the implications are?
 
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Polar Bear Quest

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I am an annihilist / conditional immortalist.
The consuming Fire (which may well be God Himself) is eternal, but it consumes that which is not holy or not sanctified.
Even the rebellious gods are made mortal like men.
Death and Hades will also be destroyed eventually.
What remains forever is people and angels living with God, and God will be all in all.

The punishMENT is eternal, not the punishING.
But what is the punishment? If the punishment is hell then hell cannot end. The punishment according to the bible is the lake of fire.
 
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Polar Bear Quest

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None of that is required. The holy Spirit moves inside each person from birth.
Only those who reject the Holy Spirit are allowed into Hell.
Hell is where you go alone after death, without God to pester you.

19 For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the worldGod’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so thatmen are without excuse.

Those who have not heard the word of God and understood it, are not guilty of sin.

John 15
21 But they will treat you like this on account of My name, because they do not know the One who sent Me.
22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin.
I agree that all men know on some level there is a God a creator but they do not know which one instinctively I'd argue.

I do disagree with your interpretation of John 15. Jesus was talking about the Jews not the modern people of today, he was saying now they have no excuse because he's literally done miracles in their faces.

John 15:24-25 proves this.

24If I had not done among them the works that no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have seen and hated both Me and My Father. 25But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated Me without reason.’

Jesus specifically says it was to fulfill what was written in "their law." This shows he was talking specifically about the Jews. If the Jews didn't reject Jesus we wouldn't have an opportunity to come in.
 
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Polar Bear Quest

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James chapter 4
11 Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister[d] or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. 12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?
My intention wasn't to slander anyone, especially someone who died thousands of years ago it was only to make a point, and use that point to pose a question, that question being, is it better to live with the possibility of going to hell or to have never lived at all. Do you have an opinion?
 
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