amariselle
Jesus Never Fails
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I "insinuated" nothing. You read into what I wrote what you wanted it to say.
Your choice.
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Is Purgatory real?
- Thread starter Lybrah
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I "insinuated" nothing. You read into what I wrote what you wanted it to say.
Your choice.
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““Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves. You can identify them by their fruit, that is, by the way they act. Can you pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? A good tree produces good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit. A good tree can’t produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit. So every tree that does not produce good fruit is chopped down and thrown into the fire. Yes, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit, so you can identify people by their actions.”
Matthew 7:15-20 NLT
Matthew 7:15-20 NLT
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The Newsboys said the power of God has torn the veil and if the Newsboys said so then it must be true
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Brother PeaceB I just want to say that I hope you don't take my debate personally. I don't want you to think of me as an adversary. It was not my intention to be disrespectful. I could've tried to be more polite in the way I presented my thoughts. I was at work and made a quick reply not thinking that it sounded offensive. Again I would like to apologize. We both love & worship the same God and just because our beliefs differ doesn't mean that we can't still be brothers in Christ. I will do better in the future to try not to come off so pompous. Have a blessed evening
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PeaceB
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No worries. I am not exactly known as Mr. Polite on these forums . . . God bless you.Brother PeaceB I just want to say that I hope you don't take my debate personally. I don't want you to think of me as an adversary. It was not my intention to be disrespectful. I could've tried to be more polite in the way I presented my thoughts. I was at work and made a quick reply not thinking that it sounded offensive. Again I would like to apologize. We both love & worship the same God and just because our beliefs differ doesn't mean that we can't still be brothers in Christ. I will do better in the future to try not to come off so pompous. Have a blessed evening
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I do not believe it is real but rather a creative tool of the Church because inevitably none of us are perfect. My reasons are this: if the Crucifixion was not the ultimate cleansing & just a temporary fix, then what's the point. There is no integrity then on the part of God. That means he can continue to change his mind. One could drive themselves nuts trying to be perfectly sinless that you could get really mentally sick. Given the number of NDEs & incorrupt saints or famous conversions, I'd have a hard time believing these persons spent time in purgatory. Purgatory requires someone to pray for you. Honestly who does that every day for those who have passed on. I'd like to think given testimony of the NDEs people are drawn to a light & that is their ultimate conversion. Other queries I have: what of a person who really has had a tough life--I was just watching a woman go thru hospice-she lost her entire family prior-she said she had not found anything to thank God for & you know something she's right. What about our soldiers? What about someone like Raoul Wallenberg or MLK? What of the 2 year old child who passes from cancer? Even more so, those who have attended wakes, there is usually some symbolic blessing near the deceased that says rest in peace or their journey to heaven. How about a basic cemetery with all its statues of Christ, carved stones, angels, etc. I think the 23rd Psalm sums it up for us.
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Jason_apostle
when you live by faith you really celebrate
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Picture this. Today you are watching the replays of 9-11. You think those people have not suffered enough that they have to go to a holding place. Picture this, the Mi-Li massacre in which Lt. Wiliam Calley ceremoniously executed innocents. Do you think they have to go to a holding place? Picture this, Harriet Tubman, the architect of the underground railroad is no longer with us; tell me does she have to go to a holding place? Tell me, did Lazarus have to go to a holding place?
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Our trials and suffering in this world are irrelevant to our salvation and forgiveness of sin. There is only 1 atonement for our sins. That is Jesus Christ. Paul said many times we are saved, cleansed, reconciled, holy, blameless, and without a single fault as we stand before God. When Paul spoke to believers he spoke of our atonement in the past tense indicating this has already taken place. He also said in the present tense we can now enter the most holy place. This shows that purgatory is not necessary and an incorrect doctrine.
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I am happy for you that you are without a single fault, blameless, and holy, ready to stand before God just as you are. That is a truly wonderful thing. I know my faults, am not very holy at all, and could only beg to come into the presence of the holy God. Maybe I will become holy like you one of these days. Maybe I will die without becoming holy like you. For me the idea of purgatory is a kindness of God that even though I am not yet holy I can still be saved.
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I didn't write those scriptures. Of course I know I am not worthy. God told Paul to tell us that Jesus has made us worthy.
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How does Jesus do that for someone who dies before they are entirely worthy? My answer is that purgatory is exactly how Jesus makes a saved but not totally sanctified person entirely worthy to be in the presence of God.
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HighwayMan
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Probably been pointed out a number of times....but if there is no purgatory, and the only options are hell or heaven solely through one accepting Jesus Christ....then I suppose hell is filled with millions of babies? Since they died before they were old enough to accept anyone or form any real thought.
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He's God He can do anything He wants. Didn't you read the verses I quoted? According to Paul and the author of Hebrews we are already worthy when we have faith in Jesus. Purgatory is not necessary.
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God is a loving and just God. I would be willing to bet that He wouldn't let that happen.
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HighwayMan
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That's great, but then the Evangelical/conservative narrative of "only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ alone," which is central to those denominations, falls apart - because it states clearly that there is only one way with no exceptions - yet in this scenario alone we already have millions of exceptions, namely all the babies that have died.
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Yup I don't have any answer to that because it's not discussed in the bible to my knowledge.
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And your post shows that you don't understand what Purgatory is.
Purgatory is about sanctification; not justification. Words mean things. When non-Catholics entirely miss the point of Purgatory with the reasoning used in your post, they handily demonstrate that they don't understand the purpose of Purgatory.
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