[POLL] Should Christians Rest and Keep Holy the Sabbath Day?

1stcenturylady said:

Old Covenant Sign - Sabbath Ex. 31:13

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New Covenant Sign - Cup of the New Covenant 1 Cor. 11:25 and keeping God's commandments Jer 31:31-33 1 Cor 7:19, Rev 14:12

Jesus said "IT IS FINISHED!" What is the "IT"? It is the the atoning sacrifice made for the sins of all mankind.

"He is the Atoning Sacrifice for OUR sins and not for our sins only - but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2

Bible details matter.

1stcenturylady said:

if the Sabbath is more important to you than obeying Jesus and His New Covenant commandments, then it has become an idol.

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If "not taking God's name in vain" becomes more important to you than obeying Jesus - then it has become an idol to you.

I find the logic "illusive" when it comes to statements of that form - since they appear to be an oxymoron

BobRyan said:

and then we have this ...



Admittedly my "highlight" is red and yours is blue

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Does that make buggy's post some how a lie?

LoveGodsWord said:

Exodus 31:13 and Ezekiel 20:12 says that God's Sabbaths are a sign between God and His people that His people might know that it is God that makes his people Holy and sets them apart from all other people. It does not say that it is a sign of the Old Covenant.

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No the scripture doesn't. You're using sophistry to wist God's Word into something it doesn't say. Exodus 31 specifically limits the sign to Israel. Hosea 2 doesn't say those who are now called God's people are Israel.

1 Corinthians 11:25 does not say the Lords Supper is a sign of anything. It only states that it is a part of the New Covenant. This is because it is the end of the ceremonial laws of Moses that provided forgiveness of sin (e.g. animal sacrifices for sin offerings that were shadows pointing to Jesus of the Old Covenant; Col 2:14).

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No but the Gospels tell us to do it as often as we want. Why? What does it stand for? Isn't it a celebration?

What is the New Covenant? What in the Old Covenant was finished? Do you know the difference between God's Law which is forever and the ceremonial laws of Moses that where shadows of things to come? (Ecclesiastes 3:14; Colossians 2:17; Leviticus 1:3-12; 14-17; 22-23; Numbers chapters 6-8; 15; 15:28-29; Deuteronomy 12; 33; Exodus 25:8; John 1:29; 36; Revelations 5:6; Colossians 2:14;17; Hebrews 8:1-5; 6-13; Hebrews 10:1-19; Hebrews chapters 8; 9; 10; John 1:29; 1 Corinthians 5:6-7; Romans 2:28-29; Hebrews 8:10-12 ). How can the 10 commandments be finished when they are forever?

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"All things concerning Me"as found in Luke 24:44. Why would we have to defend the statement Jesus made on the cross: It is finished" in John 19:30? Not a single 1 of your referenced passages decry this verse.

It is indeed important to worship God everyday. However, is it a sin to break God's Sabbath which is the 7th Day of the week when God makes this day a Holy day and commands his people not to work on this day because he has made it a Holy day for His people to rest on and has set aside this day for a day of worship? (James 2:8-12)

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It's sin only for those who are controlled by that law. In-other-words a law isn't enforceable unless it has jurisdiction.

Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Isaiah 55:8-9
8, For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9, For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Jeremiah 16:12

And ye have done worse than your fathers; for, behold, ye walk every one after the imagination of his evil heart, that they may not hearken unto me:

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Who are we hearkening to?

And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

Jeremiah 11:8
Yet they obeyed not, nor inclined their ear, but walked every one in the imagination of their evil heart: therefore I will bring upon them all the words of this covenant, which I commanded them to do; but they did them not.

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Are you applying this to some one or just throwing it out there for no reason?

[Staff edit]

BobRyan said:

D.L. Moody in that same sermon on the TEN Commandments when it comes to the day of worship "There are many whose occupation will not permit them to observe Sunday, but they should observe some other day as a Sabbath. Saturday is my day of rest, because I generally preach on Sunday, and I look forward to it as a boy does to a holiday. God knows what we need."

I have Moody in my list of "pro-Sunday-Sabbath" quotes because no matter that he kept the actual Bible Sabbath Saturday - I think he thought that keeping Sunday was just the same or better.

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and then we have this ...

bugkiller said:

The material already cited is from The Ten Commandments by DL Moody on the Fundamental Baptist Institute site. Please read the whole section. We find this in the section for the 4th commandment -

A man ought to turn aside from his ordinary employment one day in seven. There are many whose occupation will not permit them to observe Sunday, but they should observe some other day as a Sabbath. Saturday is my day of rest, because I generally preach on Sunday, and I look forward to it as a boy does to a holiday. God knows what we need.

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Admittedly my "highlight" is red and yours is blue

listed said:

Does that make buggy's post some how a lie?

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Everyone has free will - but in this case buggy posted the same thing I did " where the only difference is - he highlighted in blue where I highlighted in red. A classic "distinction without a difference".

Since you are apparently not actually looking at the quote box content for post-and-reply, I will include the sections below --outside of the quote boxes.

==============================================================

"BobRyan, post: 71696117, member: 235244"]
D.L. Moody in that same sermon on the TEN Commandments when it comes to the day of worship "There are many whose occupation will not permit them to observe Sunday, but they should observe some other day as a Sabbath. Saturday is my day of rest, because I generally preach on Sunday, and I look forward to it as a boy does to a holiday. God knows what we need."

I have Moody in my list of "pro-Sunday-Sabbath" quotes because no matter that he kept the actual Bible Sabbath Saturday - I think he thought that keeping Sunday was just the same or better.[/QUOTE]


-- and then innexplicably --

"bugkiller, post: 71697791, member: 376777"]
The material already cited is from The Ten Commandments by DL Moody on the Fundamental Baptist Institute site. Please read the whole section. We find this in the section for the 4th commandment -

A man ought to turn aside from his ordinary employment one day in seven. There are many whose occupation will not permit them to observe Sunday, but they should observe some other day as a Sabbath. Saturday is my day of rest, because I generally preach on Sunday, and I look forward to it as a boy does to a holiday. God knows what we need.

BobRyan said:

If "not taking God's name in vain" becomes more important to you than obeying Jesus - then it has become an idol to you.

I find the logic "illusive" when it comes to statements of that form - since they appear to be an oxymoron

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The difference is the gift of the inward presence of the Holy Spirit given to those who follow Jesus. Following the Spirit makes us above the law because then we are no longer under it. Does the Spirit takes His own name in vain? No. So how is that an idol to me? You still seem to be illusive as to why Jesus gave us His Spirit.

The Spirit is HOW the eternal laws of God are written on our heart. And what are those eternal laws? To love God with all your body, soul and spirit, and to love your neighbor as yourself. That is why the commandments of Jesus are as follows: To believe on the name of His Son, Jesus Christ and to love your neighbor as yourself.

1stcenturylady said:

if the Sabbath is more important to you than obeying Jesus and His New Covenant commandments, then it has become an idol.

Click to expand...

If "not taking God's name in vain" becomes more important to you than obeying Jesus - then it has become an idol to you.

I find the logic "illusive" when it comes to statements of that form - since they appear to be an oxymoron

1stcenturylady said:

The difference is the gift of the inward presence of the Holy Spirit

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Sounds good -- but opposing the Word of God against "obeying Jesus" is a bit confusing.

Paul says that the saved saints walk in the Spirit in Romans 8:4-9 and the only other group is "the lost" who "Do NOT submit to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they" ... I find that logic easy to follow.

BobRyan said:

If "not taking God's name in vain" becomes more important to you than obeying Jesus - then it has become an idol to you.

I find the logic "illusive" when it comes to statements of that form - since they appear to be an oxymoron



Sounds good -- but opposing the Word of God against "obeying Jesus" is a bit confusing.

Paul says that the saved saints walk in the Spirit in Romans 8:4-9 and the only other group is "the lost" who "Do NOT submit to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they" ... I find that logic easy to follow.

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Bob, what did Jesus teach? He said to believe on Him, and to obey the commandments of Jesus which are to love one another, with the same fervor as He kept His Father's commandments.

"If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. John 15:10

And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 1 John 3:23

If you want to keep back tracking to Jesus wrote the Ten Commandments, that was before He did away with sin.

If you love one another and believe on Jesus and love God with all your heart, what more do we need?

Don't you realize YET that the law was brought in because of sin, but Jesus FREED us from sin. So what purpose is the law in the life of a Christian if you are not sinning?

1stcenturylady said:

Bob, what did Jesus teach? He said to believe on Him, and to obey the commandments of Jesus

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True and Jesus said they are in fact God's Commandments - no diff.
Also Hebrews 8:6-10 tells us that Jesus' Commandments were spoken by Him at Sinai.

So then - we are in fact not supposed to take God's name in vain...

(And of course all the other Ten Commandments - which you have already agreed to anyway).

If you want to keep back tracking to Jesus wrote the Ten Commandments

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That is in fact what Hebrews 8:6-10 says... shall we cut that chapter out of our Bibles??
Hebrews 8 says it is STILL the basis for the New Covenant. I think we should believe scripture.

If you love one another and believe on Jesus and love God with all your heart, what more do we need?

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We need to admit that the Bible is the Word of God -- and should be obeyed

Jesus did not preach rebellion against the Word of God.

1stcenturylady said:

If you want to keep back tracking to Jesus wrote the Ten Commandments, that was before He did away with sin.

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"THIS Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world - and THEN shall the end come" Matthew 24.

Jesus proclaimed the Gospel he was preaching before the cross - as that which is to be preached by us in the NT age after the cross.

Shall we "believe Jesus".??

BobRyan said:

"THIS Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world - and THEN shall the end come" Matthew 24.

Jesus proclaimed the Gospel he was preaching before the cross - as that which is to be preached by us in the NT age after the cross.

Shall we "believe Jesus".??

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Exactly, that is what I said. You preach Old Covenant, not new.

1stcenturylady said:

Exactly, that is what I said. You preach Old Covenant, not new.

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Until you read the actual New Covenant

1stcenturylady said:

If you want to keep back tracking to Jesus wrote the Ten Commandments, that was before He did away with sin.

Click to expand...

"THIS Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world - and THEN shall the end come" Matthew 24.

Jesus proclaimed the Gospel he was preaching before the cross - as that which is to be preached by us in the NT age after the cross.

Shall we "believe Jesus".??

1stcenturylady said:

Exactly, that is what I said. You preach Old Covenant, not new.

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So then you agree that you reject the teaching of Christ in Matthew 24 even though it comes AFTER the NEW Covenant in Jeremiahs 31:31-33??

I find your logic "illusive" just then

BobRyan said:

"THIS Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world - and THEN shall the end come" Matthew 24.

Jesus proclaimed the Gospel he was preaching before the cross - as that which is to be preached by us in the NT age after the cross.

Shall we "believe Jesus".??



So then you agree that you reject the teaching of Christ in Matthew 24 even though it comes AFTER the NEW Covenant in Jeremiahs 31:31-33??

I find your logic "illusive" just then

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The point is, I do NOT reject the teachings of Jesus to believe in Him. I also believe His commandments which include belief in Him and loving your neighbor as yourself. How does that contradict Jeremiah 31?

It is the Holy Spirit that guides us into all truth, and all of God's will. And it is through Jesus that we enter into His rest.

What do you believe to be the gospel of the kingdom? The Ten Commandments? How is that "good news." That is the meaning of "gospel."

Read this in John 3.

There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”

5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”

10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

And John goes on in his epistle.

Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.

13 Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love hisbrother abides in death. 15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

16 By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17 But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?

18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

If you can understand these passages, you can understand the gospel.

1stcenturylady said:

If you want to keep back tracking to Jesus wrote the Ten Commandments, that was before He did away with sin.

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"THIS Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world - and THEN shall the end come" Matthew 24.

Jesus proclaimed the Gospel he was preaching before the cross - as that which is to be preached by us in the NT age after the cross.

Shall we "believe Jesus".??

1stcenturylady said:

Exactly, that is what I said. You preach Old Covenant, not new.

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So then you agree that you reject the teaching of Christ in Matthew 24 even though it comes AFTER the NEW Covenant in Jeremiahs 31:31-33??

I find your logic "illusive" just then

1stcenturylady said:

The point is, I do NOT reject the teachings of Jesus to believe in Him.

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Believe "in" Him -- and -- accept His teaching? Why then do you accuse those who believe His teaching of not being under the Jeremiah 31;31-33 New Covenant??

I find that logic "illusive".

1stcenturylady said:

I also believe His commandments

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Me too. And as Hebrews 8:6-10 the TEN Commandments are Christ's -- so why when Christ's words in Matthew 24 are quoted - do you accuse of not being under the Jer 31:31-33 New Covenant?

1stcenturylady said:

His Commandments which include belief in Him and loving your neighbor as yourself.

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Indeed -- Leviticus 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself"
And Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart"

Even the Pharisees in Matthew 22 agree with Christ's affirmation of that part of the Law of Moses.

Nice that you also agree to it.

1stcenturylady said:

How does that contradict Jeremiah 31?

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You will have to ask yourself that question. When I quoted Christ in Matthew 24 your response was

1stcenturylady said:

Exactly, that is what I said. You preach Old Covenant, not new.

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1stcenturylady said:

It is the Holy Spirit that guides us into all truth, and all of God's will. And it is through Jesus that we enter into His rest.

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True... we call it "the Gospel" and as Paul notes in Gal 3:8 "The Gospel was preached to Abraham".

No wonder that Moses and Elijah stand "WITH Christ" in Matthew 17 before the cross.

1stcenturylady said:

What do you believe to be the gospel of the kingdom? The Ten Commandments? How is that "good news." That is the meaning of "gospel."

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The Gospel includes freedom from the penalty of sin - 1 John 2:2 and also freedom from slavery to sin -- Romans 6 -- and the New Covenant promise of the LAW known to Jeremiah "written on the heart and mind".

We have been over that a few million times -- right?

BobRyan said:

"THIS Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world - and THEN shall the end come" Matthew 24.

Jesus proclaimed the Gospel he was preaching before the cross - as that which is to be preached by us in the NT age after the cross.

Shall we "believe Jesus".??



So then you agree that you reject the teaching of Christ in Matthew 24 even though it comes AFTER the NEW Covenant in Jeremiahs 31:31-33??

I find your logic "illusive" just then



Believe "in" Him -- and -- accept His teaching? Why then do you accuse those who believe His teaching of not being under the Jeremiah 31;31-33 New Covenant??

I find that logic "illusive".





Me too. And as Hebrews 8:6-10 the TEN Commandments are Christ's -- so why when Christ's words in Matthew 24 are quoted - do you accuse of not being under the Jer 31:31-33 New Covenant?



Indeed -- Leviticus 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself"
And Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart"

Even the Pharisees in Matthew 22 agree with Christ's affirmation of that part of the Law of Moses.

Nice that you also agree to it.




You will have to ask yourself that question. When I quoted Christ in Matthew 24 your response was






True... we call it "the Gospel" and as Paul notes in Gal 3:8 "The Gospel was preached to Abraham".

No wonder that Moses and Elijah stand "WITH Christ" in Matthew 17 before the cross.

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We still may have a difference of opinion on what the gospel was that Abraham received. What is yours? Mine is The SEED would come through Abraham. That is Jesus in whom we need to receive and to believe on His name and we shall be saved.

BobRyan said:

The Gospel includes freedom from the penalty of sin - 1 John 2:2 and also freedom from slavery to sin -- Romans 6 -- and the New Covenant promise of the LAW known to Jeremiah "written on the heart and mind".

We have been over that a few million times -- right?

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A few million times? I would imagine so seeing as you have been on this site for much longer than I have been. The problem is you believe it includes the Old Sabbath rest, a day, rather than the New Sabbath Rest - the True Giver of Rest from our works - Jesus. Now the Spirit leads us into all truth and what TO do, and what NOT TO do, and it is all through loving your neighbor as yourself. The golden rule.

1stcenturylady said:

. The problem is you believe it includes the Old Sabbath rest, a day, rather than the New Sabbath Rest - .

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Isaiah 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before me to worship" - the OT Sabbath ... for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth. The same 7th day Sabbath.

Exegesis insists that we "notice" how Isaiah and his readers would have known the term for the weekly Sabbath and what it means to not delete it - but rather continue it for all eternity in the New Earth.

"There REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4. Remains from WHEN? the text says from Psalms 95 the days of David.

Well then how did they keep the Sabbath then? Answer - On Saturday they did that very thing - a day of holy convocation as Lev 23:3 points out... a holy day of no secular activity as Isaiah 58:13 points out..

1stcenturylady said:

the Spirit leads us into all truth and what TO do, and what NOT TO do,

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True ... in the OT... and true.. in the NT.

No change.

There "Remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4.

Remains "From when"? Well Hebrews 4 says it remains as it was in Psalms 95.

Irrefutable.