Will God suffer emotionally for eternity for those in hell?

brinny · Sep 11, 2017

Hidden In Him said:
It would appear you are not listening, lol.

Let me try this: The scripture says that the Spirit that dwells within us yearns or longs with envy. The Greek word used is ἐπιποθεῖ. It is used elsewhere of Paul longing to see the believers in Rome again (Romans 1:11), and of longing to be clothed upon with our heavenly bodies (2 Corinthians 5:2). Paul also used it of likewise longing to again see the Corinthians, Philippians, and Thessalonians (2 Corinthians 9:14, Philippians 1:8, Philippians 2:26, 1 Thessalonians 3:6). Peter used it in an analogy that we should long for the word like infants longing for milk (1 Peter 2:2). And as Liddell-Scott states, it carries the sense of "to feel the want of" something that is being "missed" (P.652).

The Greek word used here is not the ordinary Greek word for simply to "desire" something. That word is ἐπιθυμέω. The Greek word ἐπιποθεῖ expresses a longing or yearning for something that one does not have, which implies a lack or need, and it is spoken of here in this verse in reference to the Holy Spirit.

Absolutely God loves us, and it is the perfect love of a holy and perfect God Who is Creator, Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient.

Was He lonely before He created us?

Hidden In Him · Sep 11, 2017

brinny said:
Absolutely God loves us, and it is the perfect love of a holy and perfect God Who is Creator, Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient.

Was He lonely before He created us?

We would first need to establish some facts. Do you agree that the Spirit longs or yearns for us now, as the word states?

brinny · Sep 11, 2017

Hidden In Him said:
We would first need to establish some facts. Do you agree that the Spirit longs or yearns for us now, as the word states?

God's Holy Spirit also prays on our behalf and grieves.

Does that mean that God is "needy" (lacking something)?

What does Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient mean?

Hidden In Him · Sep 11, 2017

brinny said:
God's Holy Spirit also prays on our behalf and grieves.

Does that mean that God is "needy" (lacking something)?

What does Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient mean?

You're not answering my question, Brinny. Do you believe the wording in the Greek or not? You asked for a scripture and I provided one. The wording in James 4:5 very clearly states that He yearns/longs for us. Do you accept this or not?

brinny · Sep 11, 2017

Hidden In Him said:
You're not answering my question, Brinny. Do you believe the wording in the Greek or not? You asked for a scripture and I provided one. The wording in James 4:5 very clearly states that He yearns/longs for us. Do you accept this or not?

I already answered.

The verse does not say that God is "needy".

You have avoided however, responding to my posts about God being Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient.

In addition, was God lonely before He created us?

Hidden In Him · Sep 11, 2017

brinny said:
I already answered.

The verse does not say that God is "needy".

You have avoided however, responding to my posts about God being Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient.

In addition, was God lonely before He created us?

Sadly, I think this conversation would go around in circles forever, which is why I was hoping to at least establish some facts. If you wish to continue, tell me what you think ἐπιποθεῖ does mean.

brinny · Sep 11, 2017

Hidden In Him said:
Sadly, I think this conversation would go around in circles forever, which is why I was hoping to at least establish some facts. If you wish to continue, tell me what you think ἐπιποθεῖ does mean.

LOL!

What what means?

Hidden In Him · Sep 11, 2017

Never mind. But keep in mind, Brinny. Whenever you are discussing the word of God and theology, it's a serious matter. It's not like in secular debates where you can simply deflect, or transition into making fun of things as if it were some mental contest and nothing more. You will be held accountable to God for doing things like that. I don't take offense personally, but I do feel compelled to warn you that it is no game when you are discussing scripture.

Halbhh · Sep 11, 2017

Restless heart said:
Trying to wrap my head around this...God is pained by the fact that many will go to hell. Eternal hell. So, does that mean that God will forever feel pain? In a sense, will God suffer emotionally for eternity because He will forever be aware of those in hell, whom He loves, suffering for eternity?

The "second death" isn't a metaphor.

Christ said, "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

That's not metaphor either. That punishment is irreversible, eternal.

Restless heart · Sep 12, 2017

Hidden In Him said:
It would appear you are not listening, lol.

Let me try this: The scripture says that the Spirit that dwells within us yearns or longs with envy. The Greek word used is ἐπιποθεῖ. It is used elsewhere of Paul longing to see the believers in Rome again (Romans 1:11), and of longing to be clothed upon with our heavenly bodies (2 Corinthians 5:2). Paul also used it of likewise longing to again see the Corinthians, Philippians, and Thessalonians (2 Corinthians 9:14, Philippians 1:8, Philippians 2:26, 1 Thessalonians 3:6). Peter used it in an analogy that we should long for the word like infants longing for milk (1 Peter 2:2). And as Liddell-Scott states, it carries the sense of "to feel the want of" something that is being "missed" (P.652).

The Greek word used here is not the ordinary Greek word for simply to "desire" something. That word is ἐπιθυμέω. The Greek word ἐπιποθεῖ expresses a longing or yearning for something that one does not have, which implies a lack or need, and it is spoken of here in this verse in reference to the Holy Spirit.

I maintain that God does not "need" us. He requires that we put Him first and submit because we need Him. As creatures we long for, or need, our Creator and sustainer. He demands that of us because He and only He is worthy of it. We should not yearn for anything worldly.
But the Holy Spirit that yearns within us is not us, it is God dwelling within us. In a sense He is drawing Himself to Himself. The Trinity always longs to be together, it is a relationship that we can never understand this side of heaven.

AlexDTX · Sep 12, 2017

Restless heart said:
He is not changed, but He has emotions. He deeply loves us. So, existing and knowing that so much if His creation is suffering would move Him in some way I would think. Or does He implement justice and then just not think about them?

I think you are trying to make a pointless case.

RaymondG · Sep 12, 2017

Halbhh said:
The "second death" isn't a metaphor.

Christ said, "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

That's not metaphor either. That punishment is irreversible, eternal.

It is also important to note that just because the verse states that God CAN do this....it doesnt mean he Will. God can do everything and anything he wants......It would only be human conjecture to say what he WILL do....If not explicitly stated by the Word

brinny · Sep 12, 2017

Hidden In Him said:
Never mind. But keep in mind, Brinny. Whenever you are discussing the word of God and theology, it's a serious matter. It's not like in secular debates where you can simply deflect, or transition into making fun of things as if it were some mental contest and nothing more. You will be held accountable to God for doing things like that. I don't take offense personally, but I do feel compelled to warn you that it is no game when you are discussing scripture.

No game here, Hidden. And what you posted here, was funny because it is a language or form that is not recognizable to me.

This -------> ἐπιποθεῖ

What am i s'posed to make of that? ^_^

Would you care to respond to what i asked several times:

-Was God lonely before He created us?

-What does Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient mean?

Thank you kindly.

RaymondG · Sep 12, 2017

All this random question asking only serves to make the thread unnecessarily long and unreadable. It is clear you have points to make with your questions, so why not just make the points and reason together, instead of waiting until after many questions are asked and answered? It is a big waste of time and a hindrance to the seekers.

Hidden In Him · Sep 12, 2017

Restless heart said:
But the Holy Spirit that yearns within us is not us, it is God dwelling within us. In a sense He is drawing Himself to Himself. The Trinity always longs to be together, it is a relationship that we can never understand this side of heaven.

I understand your interpretation. The only problem is that it doesn't fit the context. The passage is about us committing spiritual adultery against Him (James 4:4). So the natural interpretation is not the Holy Spirit longing with envy for God, but rather the Holy Spirit longing with envy for us because we are giving ourselves over to the world.

Hidden In Him · Sep 12, 2017

brinny said:
No game here, Hidden. And what you posted here, was funny because it is a language or form that is not recognizable to me.

This -------> ἐπιποθεῖ

It's the Greek for "longing," as I had already stated twice in the posts prior to this. Did you take the time to read my previous posts, or were you just now noticing I had been addressing the original language in James 4:5?

Halbhh · Sep 12, 2017

RaymondG said:
It is also important to note that just because the verse states that God CAN do this....it doesnt mean he Will. God can do everything and anything he wants......It would only be human conjecture to say what he WILL do....If not explicitly stated by the Word

Just what I often tell others, yes. But Christ Himself said to us that unless we believe and are given eternal life, that without that we would "perish". His Word. So, "second death", "destroy", "perish" -- none of these sound compatible with the notion, not in scripture, but only conjecture, that human souls live an eternal life in hell. Ergo, not being angels, human souls will perish there. That's an 'eternal punishment'. Cessation. Destruction. Ceasing to exist. It's the way to fit all the scriptures together, instead of selectively ignoring some of them. But, I consider this not especially important, since we all agree on the actual important thing -- to come to Christ to be saved. It only is important to get right for the sake of the individuals that here and now have their path to faith blocked by the speculative notion of eternal life given to those in hell.

brinny · Sep 12, 2017

Hidden In Him said:
It's the Greek for "longing," as I had already stated twice in the posts prior to this. Did you take the time to read my previous posts, or were you just now noticing I had been addressing the original language in James 4:5?

Thank you. However, it does not say that God is "needy".

The "Creator" does not "need" His "created".

The bottom line is, was God "lonely" before He created us, His "created"? Was He "in-complete"? Did He lack anything?

If the Creator, the living, omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent God, God Almighty "needed" anything, He would not be Almighty God. He would be incomplete, flawed, and "needing" something to "complete" Him.

What comes to mind, in reading your posts, is this question:

Was the Creator God lonely before He created us, His creatures?

Thank you kindly.

Hidden In Him · Sep 12, 2017

brinny said:
Thank you. However, it does not say that God is "needy".

The "Creator" does not "need" His "created".

And this is why I asked you several posts ago to please tell me what the Greek word does mean then.

brinny said:
Was the Creator God lonely before He created us, His creatures?

Thank you kindly.

And I asked you several posts ago to answer the question I just stated first, before we moved on to addressing this.

The next time you ask me a question on a thread, be prepared to answer a few yourself or mind your own business. I don't have time to waste.

RaymondG · Sep 12, 2017

Halbhh said:
Just what I often tell others, yes. But Christ Himself said to us that unless we believe and are given eternal life, that without that we would "perish". His Word. So, "second death", "destroy", "perish" -- none of these sound compatible with the notion, not in scripture, but only conjecture, that human souls live an eternal life in hell. Ergo, not being angels, human souls will perish there. That's an 'eternal punishment'. Cessation. Destruction. Ceasing to exist. It's the way to fit all the scriptures together, instead of selectively ignoring some of them.

Im not saying you are wrong, or that Hell exists or is eternal/temporary. Just reasoning.
The verse you are describing (Jesus' Words) does it specifically state that Our souls, and not body, will perish, in Hell? Or would this have to be another conjecture made on our part? I have to ask because the verse wasnt stated, or directly quoted.

Will God suffer emotionally for eternity for those in hell?

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