Are poor Christians lacking in faith?

~Cassia~ said:

So far no mention of poor in spirit inheriting the world ... interesting ...
Luke 6:20 simply has "blessed are the poor"; that Matthew adds "in spirit" is seen to be of great import. The phrase does not appear in the Old Testament, but Psalms 34:18 comes close. The phrase "poor in spirit" occurs in the Dead Sea Scrolls, and seems to have been an important notion to the Qumran community.
Matthew 5:3 - Wikipedia

Just throwing that out there for thought to chew on, but I have books on the Qumran community that I'll see if I can find anything as they were the Essene Jews who had nothing to do with the temple.

Click to expand...

The hermeneutic approach is called Pesher, “a term for commentary” in Hebrew, an interpretive method used in the Dead Sea Scrolls. It “quotes a passage and then interprets it in such a way that an event or idea has its fulfillment or meaning in the contemporary Qumran community. The assumption seems to have been that what was written in Scripture was intended specifically for the contemporary situation.”
W. Randolph Tate ~ Interpreting the Bible: a Handbook of Terms and Methods

The terms, “poor in spirit’’ and “poor,” are technical terms used only by the Essenes to describe themselves. “The Poor in Spirit” and “the Poor” signified that they had renounced all worldly possessions and ambitions so that they might be members of God’s lot, and the remnant of God’s chosen elect.

Mark 10:21, “go, sell what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” The follower who accepted that saying would have become poor for the sake of God’s Kingdom as would be the case of the Essenes.
ie: “Blessed are you Poor — who like the Essenes live only for God — for you already possess God’s Kingdom.”
James H. Charlesworth ~ Jesus Within Judaism: New Light from Existing Archaeological Discoveries

{You have not placed my support in greed or in wealth ... nor have you placed the inclination of the flesh as my refuge}
1QH 18.22-25
They are 'poor in grace' that is, the poor who have a share in God's grace. see 1Qm 14.7

And then there's Josephus
The Jewish War, Book II, Chapter 87
(8.3)
122 Since [they are] despisers of wealth—their communal stock is astonishing—, one cannot find a person among them who has more in terms of possessions. For by a law, those coming into the school must yield up their funds to the order, with the result that in all [their ranks] neither the humiliation of poverty nor the superiority of wealth is detectable, but the assets of each one have been mixed in together, as if they were brothers, to create one fund for all.

The Essenes would have interpreted Jesus' meaning when He said, "Blessed are the POOR in SPIRIT? He meant "VOLUNTARILY POOR" since Hebrew "ruah" can mean "willing" as well as "spirit." Revelation 2:9, Luke 18:22, Luke 4:18. Perhaps rightfully so.

The short answer is yet. Well would I can post 20 plus verses that 100% show GOD DOES and will. Any time you wonder about this.. ask GOD...just how FAR can your FAITH take you with YOUR FATHER! What ever you desire when you pray, what ever you ask the Father in my name, all things are possible to them that believe. If we know HE hears us..then we know we have the petitions we asked for. HIS will is HIS word. And.. if we doubt...let not that man think they will get anything from GOD.

And.. who has someone holding all the money if you have none. When I leave Colorado.. I dont just come back to Colorado.. I come back to my home. I can not add to nor take away.. yet.. Jesus..did in fact go back HOME at times..no? Yes.. you can make that as. NO HOME HE WAS POOR! Yet the lacked nothing..and.. after He rose.. go buy what..with what? pffft


Well I am no more right then anyone else but some SAY things if you read what they say. The REASON they give.. is not even written. Some lash out at other.. because they have more. And why do they? Whats the 1st thing they run to? It HAS to be of the devil.. not of God. THEY cant have more then ME!

Now myself.. I look for fruits. Now.. prosperity preachers. Now.. its not all the millions they have giving out.. or wow all the 3rd world nations they ARE in and helping. And then.. wow the thousands every month alone that come to Christ by them. Now.. I take that put that up side by side with SOME... that have no fruit what so ever. Ooh dont get silly on me lol. I am NOT here to speak for them nor defend them. So.. lets not LUMP every preacher that has money more then you or me ...ask not of God..

Toss them out so to speak. I live in Colorado. Just a town home we own. Very small. Am I now not of GOD because to millions in this world I live like a KING! WHAT are you looking at? Are you really going to judge someone based on FLESH..and then KNOWING you dont know the heart and then say what only a GOD can say? I will NOT touch that. They dont sin against me.. I will love them help them pray for them. They know JESUS as lord. And my sin TODAY is no less the what ever sin they or you do.

W2L said:

Are poor Christians lacking in faith? Or perhaps do they just not give money to God? The bible says if we give then it will be given to us.

So why are there so many Christians who are poor, and why are so many unbelievers so rich?

Click to expand...

The promises of Deuteronomy 28:1-14 are available to all but they are conditioned on one being obedient according to God's requirements, that are clearly stated. A person enjoying the many blessings of Deuteronomy 28:1-14 could not help but be prosperous in many ways. Of course, those blessings are available to those who exercising faith so faith is part of the answer. It is also important to be familiar with the Word to know that De. 28 even exists and that the blessings are available to who ever will appropriate them.

CGL1023 said:

The promises of Deuteronomy 28:1-14 are available to all but they are conditioned on one being obedient according to God's requirements, that are clearly stated. A person enjoying the many blessings of Deuteronomy 28:1-14 could not help but be prosperous in many ways. Of course, those blessings are available to those who exercising faith so faith is part of the answer. It is also important to be familiar with the Word to know that De. 28 even exists and that the blessings are available to who ever will appropriate them.

Click to expand...

You forgot to mention that the curses of the Law are equally valid and that God never intended His law to be abused by Gentiles who were never part of that covenant.

If you wish to be under the Law then you must obey all of it, all 613 commandments, before you can hope to gain God's blessing. If you break even one commandment James says that you are guilty of breaking all of the commandments.

bbbbbbb said:

You forgot to mention that the curses of the Law are equally valid and that God never intended His law to be abused by Gentiles who were never part of that covenant.

If you wish to be under the Law then you must obey all of it, all 613 commandments, before you can hope to gain God's blessing. If you break even one commandment James says that you are guilty of breaking all of the commandments.

Click to expand...

And then the only way to forgiveness for breaking one of the commandments of the Mosaic Covenant is animal sacrifice at the altar of the temple...which no longer exists.

RDKirk said:

And then the only way to forgiveness for breaking one of the commandments of the Mosaic Covenant is animal sacrifice at the altar of the temple...which no longer exists.

Click to expand...

Precisely, which is why it is vain to imagine that any of the blessings of the Old Covenant can be claimed by those who have no ability to meet its terms.

Dear W2L. Are poor Christians lacking in faith ? Sadly there are many people lacking in faith, whether rich or poor. Jesus told us in Matthew 22: 35-40: " The first and great Commandment is; Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: love thy neighbour as thyself." In verse 40 we are told: On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. God is LOVE, and God wants loving sons and daughters.
The Bible tells us: give up all selfish wishes and desires, ask God for Love and share all Love and Compassion with all neighbours. (neighbour is all we know and all we meet) Love is what God wants from us, Love for God and love for our neighbour. Jesus died that we might live, and Jesus is THE WAY. Love is very catching, and in Mathew 7; 7-10: we are told: Ask and you shall be given. We keep asking for Love, then thank God and share all love and joy and compassion with all around us. God will see our loving and caring, and God will BLESS us greatly. Love is our great weapon, and Satan and his followers will run away from love. Let us try to follow God`s words to us, and start loving and caring. Love will soon change us. I say this with love, W2L. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.( whether rich or poor)

I'm technically considered poor but I don't lack faith. I mean I have struggles sometimes because I screw up and what not. But I never cease prayer about healing and other changes. Now I do not tithe, I used to though. I still want to tithe but it is literally impossible for me to tithe right now. For reasons to complex to put into one post.

Does this mean I lack faith in God? Well no. Though I do realize tithes doesn't mean I'm going to become super rich. Is so everyone would do it. God knows I want to tithe and I hope He understands. I can say I did notice a slight change in things when I did tithe. But at the time I was also single.

An additional reason so many American (at least) Christians are poor is because they disregard this warning:

Pro_22:7 The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.

As well as disregarding founding father, Ben Franklin who quoted Shakespear in saying, "Neither a lender nor borrower be".

99% of Americans who buy a home do so on a 30 year mortgage (15 year for the few who know a little better). As long as the monthly payment is manageable for their budget they do not think past that point not realizing that a $100,000 home will end up costing them $400,000. This is bad stewardship. And it is not only homes, they buy many other things through revolving credit that continues the usurious interest fees that bankrupts them and leaves them in debt.

Credit is your reputation. A good reputation is admonished in the Scriptures, but your best credit reputation comes when you use credit cards like cash, zero balancing and paying off the debt each month. It is one thing to have a good reputation, it is another to be a servant to the lender.

It is still my sincere belief that there are no poor people, much less Christians, in the United States of America. If you really want to understand true poverty go to a third-world country. Even a second-world country such as China has truly poor people. Poverty, for Americans, is a state of mind.

James 4:1 What is the source of quarrels and conflicts among you? Is not the source your pleasures that wage war in your members? 2 You lust and do not have; so you commit murder. You are envious and cannot obtain; so you fight and quarrel. You do not have because you do not ask. 3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend it on your pleasures. 4 You adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5 Or do you think that the Scripture speaks to no purpose: “He jealously desires the Spirit which He has made to dwell in us”? 6 But He gives a greater grace. Therefore it says, “God is opposed to the proud, but gives grace to the humble.” 7 Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. 8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9 Be miserable and mourn and weep; let your laughter be turned into mourning and your joy to gloom. 10 Humble yourselves in the presence of the Lord, and He will exalt you.

NothingIsImpossible said:

I'm technically considered poor but I don't lack faith. I mean I have struggles sometimes because I screw up and what not. But I never cease prayer about healing and other changes. Now I do not tithe, I used to though. I still want to tithe but it is literally impossible for me to tithe right now. For reasons to complex to put into one post.

Does this mean I lack faith in God? Well no. Though I do realize tithes doesn't mean I'm going to become super rich. Is so everyone would do it. God knows I want to tithe and I hope He understands. I can say I did notice a slight change in things when I did tithe. But at the time I was also single.

Click to expand...

The verse quoted most often is bring your tythes into the storehouse and see if God will bless them. The context is God complaining that they were bringinh the lame and the maimed. Spiritual aspect of that would be giving your best (it doesn't specify money) to God and not insincere half efforts.

W2L said:

When i started this thread i was thinking of widows and orphans who live in poverty, in other countries. I see them on TV, digging in trash dumps and living in shacks.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reminder. This is quite true in many parts of the world. For those Christians who do suffer persecution which leads to intense poverty, this is exactly what Jesus promised the faithful believer's life would be like.

John 16:33 These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world.”

Sigh.

bbbbbbb said:

You forgot to mention that the curses of the Law are equally valid and that God never intended His law to be abused by Gentiles who were never part of that covenant.

If you wish to be under the Law then you must obey all of it, all 613 commandments, before you can hope to gain God's blessing. If you break even one commandment James says that you are guilty of breaking all of the commandments.

Click to expand...

Gal 3:13 states:
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”.

It is better to read all of Galatians 3 for the full message to the New Covenant believer. Under it, the blessings remain available while the curses are no longer an issue by Christ's atoning sacrifice.

CGL1023 said:

Gal 3:13 states:
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”.

It is better to read all of Galatians 3 for the full message to the New Covenant believer. Under it, the blessings remain available while the curses are no longer an issue by Christ's atoning sacrifice.

Click to expand...

Are all of the blessings available? Do Christians, as many churches have asserted, now have the right to evict Israel from Palestine and set up a Christian nation in its place?

W2L said:

Are poor Christians lacking in faith? Or perhaps do they just not give money to God? The bible says if we give then it will be given to us.

So why are there so many Christians who are poor, and why are so many unbelievers so rich?

Click to expand...

There is really no way to explain that. Just as there has to be winners and losers, first place and last place.

Job 34:19
Yet He is not partial to princes,
Nor does He regard the rich more than the poor;
For they are all the work of His hands.

Matt 5:45
that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven.
For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.

LUKE 16:
19 "There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day.
20 "But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores."

Rev 3:17
“Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy and have need of nothing'—
and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked—

Rev 13:16
He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads,

bbbbbbb said:

Thanks for the reminder. This is quite true in many parts of the world. For those Christians who do suffer persecution which leads to intense poverty, this is exactly what Jesus promised the faithful believer's life would be like.

John 16:33 These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world.”

Click to expand...

You would have to be a very sic puppy not to take consolation in that. Thanks for the reminder.