Is it better to never have been born then to live with the possibility of going to hell?

Polar Bear Quest

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I can't help but think about the fact that the majority of people who have ever lived (and I'm not talking 51% to 49%, the margin is MUCH wider) have gone to or are going to hell. Hell is eternal torment that one cannot escape.

So how is it not better to have never lived at all then to live?

We've all heard the saying "life isn't fair." God even states in the book of Exodus "I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and show compassion to whom I show compassion." Now of course he's an all perfect God but even when I try to think "it all balances out" it appears God shows favoritism.

I've been reading the books of Samuel and 2 Samuel the last few days and King David is a genocidal maniac who literally raids & plunders cities of people killing all the men, women, and children so they don't squeal on him.

1 Samuel 27:8-9
8Now David and his men went up and raided the Geshurites and the Girzites and the Amalekites; for they were the inhabitants of the land from ancient times, as you come to Shur even as far as the land of Egypt.9David attacked the land and did not leave a man or a woman alive, and he took away the sheep, the cattle, the donkeys, the camels, and the clothing.

On top of all this King David has his camp raided and it appears like an opportunity for him to learn a lesson, but not only does he or his men not lose their property or their families lives, they GAIN possessions.

1 Samuel 30:18-20
18So David recovered all that the Amalekites had taken, and rescued his two wives. 19But nothing of theirs was missing, whether small or great, sons or daughters, spoil or anything that they had taken for themselves; David brought it all back. 20So David had captured all the sheep and the cattle which the people drove ahead of the other livestock, and they said, “This is David’s spoil.”

I say this to say when we're born we can't decide or know who we're going to be born as, we might be born in 2017 with video games and working air conditioning. Or we could be born as one of the Geshurites that David slaughtered with no remorse thousands of years ago. We could be born mentally retarded or a super genius, who knows.

To add to all this, all this constant debate amongst Christians about how is one saved. There's the classic works vs. faith debate but there's also the guys who believe the law isn't dead, or you have to get baptized. Heck the Calvinist's believe we're all predestined to a fate. So even among Christians how many are going to heaven?

So is it better to have never been born then to live with the high possibility of going to hell forever?
 

Hieronymus

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Hell is not forever, it's where life ends forever.
The 2nd death is not life (in hell).
Unfortunately this is considered controversial theology, but you might want to check out "Rethinking hell" for a sound Biblical case for conditional immortality (as in John 3:16) and the and the problems with the Biblical case for an 'eternal soul' and eternal life without Christ.
 
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Polar Bear Quest

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Hell is not forever, it's where life ends forever.
The 2nd death is not life (in hell).
Unfortunately this is considered controversial theology, but you might want to check out "Rethinking hell" for a sound Biblical case for conditional immortality (as in John 3:16) and the and the problems with the Biblical case for an 'eternal soul' and eternal life without Christ.
Hell is spelled out clearly in the Bible, even old church fathers taught hell, it's a legit biblical doctrine.

Revelation
And there were open books, and one of them was the book of life. And the dead were judged according to their deeds, as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds.

14Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire. 15And if anyone was found whose name was not written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
 
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FireDragon76

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The majority of people ever born are in the same position that you or me are in- God loves them and he is merciful.
 
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FireDragon76

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Your question exposes the problem of sin and its pervasiveness. It's not just a moral failing, it is the brokenness and apparent absurdity of the universe in which we live.

"Better to never have been born?"... that's actually exposes a grain of truth. Bearing children is an awesome responsibility in such an existence defined by sin, suffering, and brokenness. Perhaps many people take it too lightly.
 
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Aseyesee

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I can't help but think about the fact that the majority of people who have ever lived (and I'm not talking 51% to 49%, the margin is MUCH wider) have gone to or are going to hell. Hell is eternal torment that one cannot escape.

So how is it not better to have never lived at all then to live?

We've all heard the saying "life isn't fair." God even states in the book of Exodus "I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and show compassion to whom I show compassion." Now of course he's an all perfect God but even when I try to think "it all balances out" it appears God shows favoritism.

I've been reading the books of Samuel and 2 Samuel the last few days and King David is a genocidal maniac who literally raids & plunders cities of people killing all the men, women, and children so they don't squeal on him.

1 Samuel 27:8-9


On top of all this King David has his camp raided and it appears like an opportunity for him to learn a lesson, but not only does he or his men not lose their property or their families lives, they GAIN possessions.

1 Samuel 30:18-20


I say this to say when we're born we can't decide or know who we're going to be born as, we might be born in 2017 with video games and working air conditioning. Or we could be born as one of the Geshurites that David slaughtered with no remorse thousands of years ago. We could be born mentally retarded or a super genius, who knows.

To add to all this, all this constant debate amongst Christians about how is one saved. There's the classic works vs. faith debate but there's also the guys who believe the law isn't dead, or you have to get baptized. Heck the Calvinist's believe we're all predestined to a fate. So even among Christians how many are going to heaven?

So is it better to have never been born then to live with the high possibility of going to hell forever?

Wouldn't it have better that God never created you seeing the choice to do so was his all along ...
 
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Adstar

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Ys indeed it would be better not to be born then to live and be destined to the Eternal lake of Fire..

Mark 14:KJV
21 "The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born."
 
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Sarah G

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Ys indeed it would be better not to be born then to live and be destined to the Eternal lake of Fire..

Mark 14:KJV
21 "The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born."
That's why eternal conscious torment makes no sense. God would be a sadist to create beings that are doomed to suffer an eternal lake of fire and the Bible says that God is love (1 John 4:8).
 
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Adstar

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That's why eternal conscious torment makes no sense. God would be a sadist to create beings that are doomed to suffer an eternal lake of fire and the Bible says that God is love (1 John 4:8).

It makes no sence to you....
It does not sit well with you...

But God is Perfect and His Word is Pefect...
Have Faith in his Word.. Believe Him..

God loves us.. But to have a relationship with Him We must love Him back.. Those who reject the love of god shall not have an eternal relationship with Him..
 
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Aseyesee

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It makes no sence to you....
It does not sit well with you...

But God is Perfect and His Word is Pefect...
Have Faith in his Word.. Believe Him..

God loves us.. But to have a relationship with Him We must love Him back.. Those who reject the love of god shall not have an eternal relationship with Him..

If you only love those who love you what have you done ... does God require more of us then he does himself ...
 
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Rajni

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If you only love those who love you what have you done ... does God require more of us then he does himself ...
Exactly.

The bible even criticizes the inclination to love only those who love us.
 
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SkyWriting

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So is it better to have never been born then to live with the high possibility of going to hell forever?

Jesus was careful with His answers that The Father prefers that all are saved.
It's not a numbers or odds game.
 
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Noxot

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it's weird that we are not to love satan but we are to love satan. maybe Gods hate is love too.

to have never been born is something we have always had because before we existed we were still inside of God.
 
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Aseyesee

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Exactly.

The bible even criticizes the inclination to love only those who love us.

Everything came out of love ... and if you can see the end, everything is this from the beginning.
 
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Rajni

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To add to all this, all this constant debate amongst Christians about how is one saved. There's the classic works vs. faith debate but there's also the guys who believe the law isn't dead, or you have to get baptized. Heck the Calvinist's believe we're all predestined to a fate. So even among Christians how many are going to heaven?
This right here is probably the biggest red-flag regarding the hell doctrine. Usually, if something has any basis in reality, there’s a pretty much monolithic consensus on the best approach to it.

But with the hell concept, everyone’s got a different idea as to what one must do to avoid it. Opinions shouldn’t be all over the map over something that critical if it were even real to begin with.
 
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SkyWriting

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This right here is probably the biggest red-flag regarding the hell doctrine. Usually, if something has any basis in reality, there’s a pretty much monolithic consensus on the best approach to it.

But with the hell concept, everyone’s got a different idea as to what one must do to avoid it. Opinions shouldn’t be all over the map over something that critical if it were even real to begin with.

The only way into Hell is to reject God's Holy Spirit outright.
All other Sins are forgiven if you ask.
 
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SkyWriting

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Hell is eternal torment that one cannot escape.

It's not someone tormenting you. It's you tormenting you.
It seems like you could forgive yourself, but I guess not.
 
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If you only love those who love you what have you done ... does God require more of us then he does himself ...

He requires us to Believe Him.. And believe His Atonement covers us for the times we fail to be the loving person we should be.. If we acknowledge all His ways as good and truth and trust 100% in the Atonement He secured for our salvation.. We can acknowledge our failure to live up to His perfect will and thank Him with joy for His Work on the cross that wins for us our salvation..

People get all worked up and worried about their performance in doing Gods will. And if they are continuously falling short ( And Everyone Does fall short ) they worry about their salvation being lost.. This sometimes leads them to try to interpret Gods Message in a way to make it say something it does not so that they can better perform the compromised cut down version of Gods word..

But this is a terrible mistake.. firstly our salvation is not based on how good we are.. How well we perform up to His standards.. His standards are there to make it clear to us that we are always falling short of living up to His standards and thus that sets us up to embrace the Atonement He has secured for our salvation.. Secondly cutting and manipulating the teachings of God to make them more do-able is also terrible thing to do.. Both actions are denying Gods will..

So people should totally embrace and accept the ultra high standards of Jesus as being true and good without any compromise. And people should have 100% confidence in the gift of salvation Jesus secured for us on the cross.. That's where safety is for us..Eternal security :D
 
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Tolworth John

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So how is it not better to have never lived at all then to live?
How do you know this?
King David is a genocidal maniac
You have a problem as God said that David is a man after his own heart.
David acted to defend the people God had chosen, he used the common methods of war of his time. We may not like what he did, but have you or I a zeal for God as great as David's?

constant debate amongst Christians about how is one saved

There is no debate about how to get saved. The bible is crystal clear that we are saved by faith in Jesus's death and resurrection.
 
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