Is it possible that there is only one God...... for everyone?

Tolworth John said:

I can't view video/utube etc do you have a written example.

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QUIZ SHOW or... "No, no, I mean the actual words on the page, see...?" NonStampCollector
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OK Welcome back.
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Both our contestants are giving it a red hot go tonight as we test their knowledge of the infallible,
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inerrant and non-contradictory word of god.
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And a couple of quality contestants we have tonight: Craig and Ken
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Craig in the lead so far, but let's see what happens In this next round
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I'll be asking a question and giving both of you a chance to respond,
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to see if you come up with the same answer. Ready Ken?
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You bet
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And Craig?
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Let's go
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OK, so turning to Yahweh's anger, for question 1. For ten points,
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How long does Yahweh's anger last?
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Yes, Ken
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Forever
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OK, it's a forever from Ken, Craig what do you think?
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I'm gonna go with not forever.
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Well you're both correct. 10 Points each. Yahweh's anger lasts both Not forever: Micah 7:18/Forever: Jer 17:4
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forever and NOT forever. Well done! Not forever: Micah 7:18/Forever: Jer 17:4
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Next question: Does Yahweh tempt people?
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Yes, Craig.
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No. He would never do that.
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OK, Ken? Do you agree with Craig?
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Well, Yahweh tempted Abraham, so it definitely is something he'd do.
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Well Ken you're right about that, so 10 points for you, (Genesis 22:1)
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and 10 points for you also Craig, (Genesis 22:1)
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because God cannot be tempted with evil, nor tempteth he any man (James 1:13).
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Question 3:
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Can salvation be attained by works?
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Yes Craig,
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No. A man is not justified by the works of the law, (Gal 2:16)
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but by the faith of Jesus Christ (Gal 2:16)
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OK, and Ken?
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Well I'm afraid Craig's correct, and I'm going to differ with him on this one,
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and instead go with what Jesus said, namely if you want to enter into life, (Matt 19:17, Luke 10:26-8)
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keep the commandments (Matt 25:41-46 and 16:27) (Matt 19:17, Luke 10:26-8)
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Yes, but a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law (Romans 3:28)
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You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone (James 2:24 )
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Both correct once again, somehow or other,
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and now for our final question for this round...
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What are the consequences of seeing Yahweh's face?
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Yes, Ken.
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death!
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Hmmm - Ken saying death, do you agree, Craig?
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I'm saying the preservation of life. (Gen 32:30)
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But there shall no man see me and live (Ex 33:20)
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And that's correct!
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But hang on, Jacob saw god face to face (Gen 32:30)
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And Abraham (Gen 12:7)
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Yes, and so did Moses (Ex 33:11)
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But no man hath seen god at any time (John 1:18)
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Except the seventy elders of Israel (Ex 24:9-11)
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And all the others too, and of course none of them did
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because no man hath seen nor can see god (1 Tim 6:16)
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10 points for everyone there, including me, I think, on that one.
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OK, onto the next round of questions.
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and it's our first speed round for the evening.
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No need to buzz in, just call out your answer as soon as I finish asking each question.
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30 seconds on the clock....
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your time starts - - NOW
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Does Yahweh delight in burnt offerings?
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YES/NO (Jer 7:22, Ex 20:24)
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Correct. (Jer 7:22, Ex 20:24)
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Is God the author of evil?
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YES/NO (Is. 45:7, 1 John 4:8)
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Correct (Is. 45:7, 1 John 4:8)
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According to Genesis, were humans created BEFORE the animals?
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YES/NO (Gen 2:18-9; Gen 1:25-7)
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Correct. (Gen 2:18-9; Gen 1:25-7)
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On the road to Damascus, did Paul's traveling companions hear the voice that spoke to Paul?
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YES/NO (Acts 22:9 , Acts 9:7)
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Correct. (Acts 22:9 , Acts 9:7)
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Will the Earth last forever?
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YES/NO (2 Peter 3:10 Ecc 1:4)
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Correct (2 Peter 3:10 Ecc 1:4)
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Is Jesus the only man to have ascended into heaven?
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YES/NO (2 Kings 2:11, John 3:13)
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Correct. (2 Kings 2:11, John 3:13)
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In old testament law, were children to be punished for the sins of their fathers?
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YES/NO (Deut 24:16 , Deut 5:9)
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Correct! (Deut 24:16 , Deut 5:9)
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OK, that's the end of our speed round
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Ken you must be exhausted after that.
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Oh, no, no, no. Just like our heavenly father, I never tire, and I never rest. (Is. 40:28)
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Oh, in that case, would you like to rest a minute?
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OK, sure,
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just like our heavenly father, that's what I always do when I get tired. (Is. 1:14 and 43:24)
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OK, in that case let's take a short break and well be back right after this message from our sponsors:
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And the writings do not contradict each other!
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No, there are no contradictions.
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All of these authors over such a long period of time...
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No, there's no contradiction here.
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They merely supplement each other.
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...are all saying the same thing.
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Ha, ha! So fancy that!. (Jer 52:12-13, 2 Kings 25:8-9)
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And now onto the next round, which is all about numbers.
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Not the old testament book, no no,
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we're going to test your understanding of the actual
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numerical values of integers in the bible.
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First to buzz in, and here's Question 1:
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How many valiant men drew the sword for Israel, as counted by Joab?
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Ken?
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800,000? (2 Sam 24:9)
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Correct, (2 Sam 24:9)
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and 1.1 million would also have been correct there (1 Chron 21:5)
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Question 2: How many horseman did David take with him when...
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Ken?
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700? (2 Sam 8:4)
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700 is correct and so is 7,000, either way (1 Chron 18:4)
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a much of a muchness really, (1 Chron 18:4)
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question 3:
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How much did David pay for the threshing floor?
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Yes, Craig?
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I think, 500 shekels of gold?
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Oooh, no, sorry Craig, it was 600 shekels, (1 Chron 21:25)
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Ken what would you have said? (1 Chron 21:25)
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Hmmm, I was leaning towards just 50 shekels but that (-) seems...
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Well you would have been correct, (2 Sam 24:24)
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it was 50 shekels AND 600 shekels.
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Now, question 8:
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The chief of King David's captains killed 800 men in one encounter. (2 Sam 23:8)
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This figure, 800, is also equal to How many?
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Ken?
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700?
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Ooohhh, sorry Ken, The correct answer is 300. (1 Chron 11:11)
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You'll be kicking yourself for a week, won't you?
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I knew it!
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OK, next question.
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When is a thief, two thieves?
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Yes, Craig,
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Ooh, well there were two theives crucified with Jesus,...
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Yes, you're on the right track...
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Did... did they both revile Jesus or did only one of them?
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Well, both are correct depending on which gospel you're reading! (Luke 23:39-42, Mark 15:32, Matt 27:44)
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It's just like how many blind men Jesus healed near Jericho (Mark 10:46, Matthew 20:30).
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it was two AND it was one. (Mark 10:46, Matthew 20:30 and Luke 18:35).
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So let's move onto the final question in this round. It's multiple choice, so listen carefully.
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Think of a single historical event that featured two men standing, Matt 28:2, Mark 16:5, Luke 24:4, John 20:12
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that were actually two men sitting, which was in fact one man sitting, Matt 28:2, Mark 16:5, Luke 24:4, John 20:12
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and in actual fact was one angel descending from heaven and causing an earthquake. Matt 28:2, Mark 16:5, Luke 24:4, John 20:12
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Was this non-contradictory singular event witnessed by
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a) one woman, (John 20:1)
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b) two women, (Matthew 28:1)
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c) three women, (Mark 16:1) or
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d) an unknown number of women numbering at least five (Luke 24:10)?
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Ken?
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All of the above!
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CORRECT! (John 20:1; Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:1; Luke 24:10)
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Ha, ha! Congratulations Ken, (John 20:1; Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:1; Luke 24:10)
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an excellent answer given that all of the historically accurate
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accounts of the day of Jesus resurrection agree with each other perfectly,
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and would CERTAINLY stand up in court as being reliable testimony.
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It's time for our second speed round now,
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looking to see who'll be going home and who'll be advancing
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good luck both of you,
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In this round I'm going to name a crime, and you need to be the
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first to buzz in with the punishment as originally demanded by The LORD God, (Exodus 34:6)
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merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth. (Exodus 34:6)
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Ready, players? 60 seconds on the clock this time. Hands on buzzers....
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What was Yahweh's originally designated punishment for......
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Fortune telling?
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Ken?
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Death. (Lev 20:27)
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Correct. Hitting a parent?
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Ken?
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Death (Ex 21:15)
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Correct. Cursing a parent?
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Craig?
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Death (Lev 20:9)
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Yes. Not listening to a priest?
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Ken?
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Death. ( Deut 17:12)
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Correct. Following another religion?
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Craig?
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Death. (Ex 22:20)
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Yes. Adultery?
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Craig?
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Death (Lev 20:10)
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Correct. Not seeking the lord god of Israel?
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Ken?
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Death (2 Chron 15:12-13).
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Correct. Fornication?
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Ken?
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Prison?
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No, sorry the correct answer is Death (Lev 21:9)
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Dammit
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Prophesying falsely?
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Craig?
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Death (Zech 13:3)
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Correct, bonus points if you can tell us who has to kill the false prophet?
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His or her parents.
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Very good. Homosexuality?
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Craig?
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Death (Lev 20:13)
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Yes. Blasphemy?
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Ken?
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Death. (Lev 24:10-16)
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Correct. Working on the sabbath?
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Craig?
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Death (Ex 31:12-15)
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Yes. Having a few people in your town worship another god?
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Craig?
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Death
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More information...
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Death for the entire town
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.... a little more....
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and the livestock.... err..
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and put the entire town to the torch so that the town is a ruin forever
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Correct (Deut 13:13-16)
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and just in time too, very nearly running out of time (Deut 13:13-16)
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there with both of our contestants showing an admirable familiarity with scripture so far tonight,
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OK making a final check of our scores here now,....
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OK, but look, rather than trust logic or the immoral practice of basing decisions
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solely upon verifiable evidence,
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I'm just going to pray for a minute and ask the Lord who our winner is tonight...
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Yes, look - I'm getting a strong inner conviction and taking it on faith that...
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KEN is our winner!!
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which means that we'll say goodbye to Craig here.
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Any thoughts on that decision Craig?
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Oh, look, it's an excellent choice, Bill,
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I've always trusted faith over objective reasoning because
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without faith, logic is just a fallible human construct or something.
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Yes, but you don't leave empty handed.
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What earthly treasures have we got stored up for our runner-up, Frank?
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Well, for our runner up today it's a huge house upon the rock!
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Oh NO!!! I'm rich! Woe unto me? (Luke 6:24)
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Hey, come on, riches are a blessing! (Psalm 12:1-3)
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Either way, Craig, you be sure to sell that new possession of yours (Luke 18:22, 12:33 and 14:33).
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and give to the poor (Luke 18:22, 12:33 and 14:33).
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Or perhaps you could take the example of the early christian church,
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who got together as a community, (Acts 2:44-5, Acts 4:34-7)
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sold what they owned, (Acts 2:44-5, Acts 4:34-7)
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and shared the proceeds amongst themselves communally. (Acts 2:44-5, Acts 4:34-7)
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How do you feel about communism now, teabaggers?
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Oh - yes Craig?
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It's an immoral atheist plot invented by Barack Obama and Josef Stalin to take over our country?
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Correct. Ha, ha!
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Time for a quick break, and we'll be right back with Ken in our solo challenge round
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There's another supossed contradiction
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supossed contradictions in the bible
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supossed contradiction
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this is one of those alleged contradictions
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not a contradiction at all
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the harmony among the gospels
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so called factual discrepancy
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no contradiction
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supposed contradictions in the bible
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lends historical credibility to the accounts
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Now solo challenge round, there are 8 questions, and you have to get them ALL correct.
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Here we go, question 1.
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Did the temple curtain rip before or after Jesus died? (Mark 15:37-8, Luke 23:45-6)
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Ummm... yes. (Mark 15:37-8, Luke 23:45-6, Matt 27:50-51)
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Correct. (Mark 15:37-8, Luke 23:45-6, Matt 27:50-51)
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Who put the gorgeous purple robe on Jesus,
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Herod's soldiers or Pilate's soldiers?
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Yes, they did.(Luke 23:11, Matt 27:27-8, John 19:1-2)
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Correct.(Luke 23:11, Matt 27:27-8, John 19:1-2)
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Did Jesus curse the fig tree before
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or after driving the merchants from the temple?
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Ummm... before or after? (Matt 21:12, 17-19 , Mark 11:12-17)
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Correct, (Matt 21:12, 17-19 , Mark 11:12-17)
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either one will do, so good answer there.
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Should homosexuals be killed or exiled? (1 Kings 15:11-12, Lev 20:13)
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Definitely.
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Correct.
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Given that Quirinius became the governor of Syria nine years after King Herod's death,
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was Jesus born during the reign of Herod,
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or during the governorship of Quirinius?
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Uhmm... Uhmm... Both? (Luke 2:1, Matt 2:1, Wikipedia)
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Miraculously, yes. (Luke 2:1, Matt 2:1, Wikipedia)
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You're doing very well.
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When the women arrived at Jesus tomb, was the tomb opened or closed? (Matt 28:2 , Luke 24:2)
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Yes, it was.
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Correct.
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Did Judas die by hanging himself, or by falling over in a field and
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having his midsection burst open spilling his guts everywhere?
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Yes, that's right. (Acts 1:18 , Matt 27:5)
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Correct, and our final question (Acts 1:18 , Matt 27:5)
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Is God the author of confusion? (1 Cor 14:33)
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No!! (1 Cor 14:33)
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Correct! (1 Cor 14:33)
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The authors of confusion are the people who misrepresent
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the bible and try to make it appear as though parts of it contradict each other!!!
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I know, right?
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Don't those people have anything better to do?
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They must hate god so much!
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Oh, congratulations, Ken, well done,
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an excelent achievement,
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and now, your prize. Are you ready?
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You've won...
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a lifetime of believing a promise of something for which there's no evidence
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and that you won't actually get until after you're dead!
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In fact,... there's pretty much no good reason at all to expect it's even remotely real
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but please,
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just take our word for it and live the rest of your life imaging it and feeling happy
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and by the way,
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you don't actually deserve it anyways so make sure you feel a bit unworthy too.
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How about that?
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Isn't that the sort of thing that we all want?
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So congratulations once again, Ken.
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Thanks for watching everybody.
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And we'll see you again next time.
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Bye, bye.

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While looking for that please provide the evidence that Jesus did not rise from the dead.

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Tolworth John said:

I was expecting some solid arguments. If that is all you have you have no grounds for rejecting Christianity.

Christianity stands on the historical evidence that Jesus rose from the dead. So if you left Christianity that is something you should have a view on.

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ananda said:

I'm an atheist against Christianity. I am not. I am agnostic, like the OP.

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Tolworth John said:

Effectivly what is the difference.
One say there is no God the other says I don't know, but unless one is actively investigating whether there is a God or not. Then effectivly an agnostict is an atheist.

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You have no proof you say, yet you have the bible with four accounts of Jesus's life, death and resurrection.

If Jesus is God then you have to aline your world view with his world view, rather than seek to impose it on him.

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Tolworth John said:

"The Bible's accounts is not proof." I'm sorry to correct you but four indepentdant reports written within the life time of eyewitness is proof of Jesus's life, trial, exceution and resurrection.

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The book of Luke is regarded by historians as tottaly accurate on historical facts.
No historian seriously doubts the facts about Jesus and about his resurrection they use weasel words to avoid having to comment on the fact of the resurrection.

may I suggest you look at the web site, 'coldcasechristianity' where a detective used his training to examine the gospels and was convinced that they were accurate, reliable accounts by witnesses. The same sort of statements he used to gain convictions in coldcases.

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ananda said:

Accounts supposedly written ~30-60 years after the alleged fact is hardly proof.

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ananda said:

Unfortunately, I cannot say that the standards taught & used by historians or detectives are my standards. When it comes to my ultimate concerns in life, I require direct knowledge

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ananda said:

Mathematics & logic are methodologies which attempt to conceptualize universal truths. Truth is simply truth. Love is an expression of attachment and greed. None of the above are either fallible or infallible in and of themselves, as none of them are created by mankind, but are simply truths which we apprehend regarding reality itself.

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Tolworth John said:

Fact the romans destroyedJerusalem in AD 70, this is not mentioned anywhere in the NT, so all the NT was written by then. The latest anything could have been written is before the revoult that brought the roman armies down on Jerusalem.
That your memory and mine is poor says nothing about the memories of those trained to use their memories.
That the writers frequently say there are witnesses living who can confirm what they say is evidence of the reliability of the NT.

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Interesting a detective can examine the evidence in a murder case and bring an accused to court and based on the evidence obtain a conviction and you say what he has to say on the bible is irrelevent.

You are saying that even if there is a God with moral standards you will not believe or respond unless Gods moral code is your moral code.

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Chriliman said:

The purpose of giving meaning to words is so we who objectively exist can agree on what they objectively mean.

If accurate mathematics is not fallible, then by definition, it is infallible(not fallible) if you adhere to the agreed objective meaning of the words fallible and infallible. If you don't adhere to the agreed objective meaning, then we won't come to an agreement here.

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ananda said:

I have no way of confirming all of this for myself, unfortunately

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ananda said:

No, I'm saying that an allegedly infallible, almighty deity who uses fallible methods cannot be infallible himself

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Tolworth John said:

So no one can provide you with evidence because you cannot yourself verivie it.
try reading this article:-
12 Historical Facts - Gary Habermas
Please note the author has a list of over 2000 historians, both Christian and nonchristian who have written about the resurrection and who believe Jesus lived and died etc.

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And yet again it is you who determines the rules.
Why can a God not use what ever method that he decides to use?

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ananda said:

Reality is objective, but language used to point to that Reality is fluid.

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ananda said:

Language is useful when it points to Reality which can know and apprehend for ourselves - this is how early Buddhism uses language; this is also the language of mathematics, or logic.

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ananda said:

If language suggests an alleged reality which we cannot know or apprehend directly (e.g. the alleged resurrection of Jesus, or the wizardry of Harry Potter), then that language becomes practically useless - this is how Christianity and faith-based religions uses language.

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Chriliman said:

It's only fluid if you don't agree upon an objective meaning for the words being used. If objective beings agree upon the actually meaning of words, then language is no longer fluid(having whatever meaning you fancy)

And objectively agree upon. If there's a disagreement about what a word means then one or the other(or both) is wrong, they can't both be right.

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Logically, the entire idea behind Jesus being resurrected from the dead is so all can be able to know him through personal, verifiable experience at any time, since he's immortal. So it's simply untrue that the living Christ cannot be known or apprehended directly. If He's immortally alive, then he can be known.

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ananda said:

That's the problem with language I'm highlighting. It's subjective.

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ananda said:

How have you personally verified the existence of an independent, intelligent, almighty being named "Jesus"?

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Chriliman said:

It is subjective, but once the correct meaning is conveyed objectively(from one objective being to another), it becomes objective. The correct objective meaning can be determined using accurate logic.

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Through the comprehension of what he objectively teaches in Scripture, summed up as 'love God and others', and through what He has made in creation. God is a relationship of objectively existing beings who lovingly agree about what's actually true. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The driver of meaningful existence is relationship.

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ananda said:

Something that is seen as objective does not make it independently Real. It could simply exist in the two beings' minds, like the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

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ananda said:

None of that tells me that you personally and directly met an independent, intelligent, almighty being named "Jesus". You are pointing to some qualities evident in the world around us (like relationship, or love), and jumped to the conclusion that it was all created by "God" or "Jesus". I could just as well jump to the conclusion that Ahura-Mazda created those qualities.

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Dave RP said:

God may judge us on belief of Jesus but I genuinely think that any god will give a lot more slack than that, but we'll see.

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