Clarifying the Word of Faith movement

now faith said:

Faith is up to the individual Our ability to have faith is up to God, but our will to
Throughout the New Testament, Christ shows his approval of those who moved in Faith.
Hebrews: 11. 5. By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6. But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Many things have been given to us from God to live in victory,yet many people do not believe.

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Can faith be produced by man? That I think is the crucial question to be answered first.

Didaskalos said:

If you are looking for someone to make sense of the doctrine of the trinity you will not find it here... or anywhere else. The final phrase of any discussion is "the doctrine is a mystery... it is beyond our ability to understand." If that be so... I am not sure there is any way to write a mystery down on paper. It, after all, is a mystery. Some actually go so far as implying "We do not understand God.... and if you do you are a heritic. We do not understand Him... and we demand that you not understand Him either!"

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Sounds good Dids... When we enter heaven, we will (then) know "all things", even as we are known.

God the Father conceived it. Jesus spoke it. And the Holy Spirit was the power that performed it (Andrew Wommack).

One of the great statements of the Old Testament from (Deuteronomy 6:4) says, "The Lord our God is one Lord." We do not have three Gods, but one God, clearly identifiable as three persons. This is a great mystery, which has not been adequately explained. Scriptures reveal the truth of the Trinity, but make no attempt to explain it. We simply accept this revelation as it is, until we know all things, even as we are known (1 Corinthians 13:12).

scottmcc2 said:

In post 21 I mentioned this:
Lose a loved one? I have not studied that but I believe God will keep my loved ones from harm because I have authority in Jesus name. John 14:14

As I was reading the Bible the other day this verse stood out:
Luke 11:21 ""When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed." NASB

When we are fully armed. Using the armour of God. Ephesians 6:10 Helmet of salvation, breastplate of righteousness, girded with truth, shoes with the prep of the gospel of peace, sword of the Spirit and shield of faith. And all prayer. And in Romans 13:12 we have the armour of light. When we are using these we are able to protect those who God has given to us. Ask this forum of Word of Faith how these work. (I'm not using the Word of Faith badge, so I can't teach here.) 2 Corinthians 10:3-6; and other verses.

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Hi scottmcc2, You (also) said this in (Post 21).... "I am not completely word of faith." Here is what I usually say... "I am (fully) WoF but.... (do not) believe 100% in what SOME... within WOF teach." (subject to change)

Is there (really) much, if any... difference between what we both quoted? I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer but aren't we (really) saying the same thing?

In my opinion... (No One) is completely word of faith. So, what is it that says you can't teach here? If you notice... I am the only one that uses the (forum voted in)... Word of faith badge. Some years ago (probinson), a WOF member designed and created this badge icon that would simply recognize us as WOF believer. During that time this is the "one" out of several unanimously chosen by forum membership. It is not necessary or required to use it. I love it and use it in honor of the designer who created it.

I added subject to change in my WOF statement above. I don't like the word "fully WOF" (sounds arrogant). I am a WOF believer, teacher, and exhorter... but I do not agree with every WOF teaching (regardless who is the teacher).

So, what this amounts to is... Since your not (completely) WOF and I (don't agree) with everything WOF teaches... Can either or neither one of us teach here? (my poor English).

I look at it this way. God led US here... "For a time such as this" (Esther 4:14)

So, what do we do?.... teach on!

Si_monfaith said:

Can faith be produced by man? That I think is the crucial question to be answered first.

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Good question...

Faith is based on the Knowledge of God... His gift to us. How to pray to receive the knowledge of God? (Ephesians 1:15-23). Believe that you receive, and watch faith begin to be produced in your life.

How is faith produced? Not by man. It is part of the fruit of God’s Holy Spirit. (Galatians 5:22-23) “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."

hhodgson said:

Good question...

Faith is based on the Knowledge of God... His gift to us. How to pray to receive the knowledge of God? (Ephesians 1:15-23). Believe that you receive, and watch faith begin to be produced in your life.

How is faith produced? Not by man. It is part of the fruit of God’s Holy Spirit. (Galatians 5:22-23) “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."

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Knowledge of God is given as a free gift. Prayer does not earn it.

Both the knowledge and faith are free gifts. Can man please God using His free gifts?

God is pleased with us only because He chooses to be pleased with us and not because of the free gifts which He gives.

Si_monfaith said:

Knowledge of God is given as a free gift. Prayer does not earn it.

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Praise God monfaith. I am blessed to be able to respond to your post.
Those who don't have knowledge are destroyed. Hosea 4:6
My people go into exile for a lack of knowledge. Isaiah 5:13
"An ox knows its owner, And a donkey its master's manger, But Israel does not know, My people do not understand." Isaiah 1:3

Yes knowledge is given to us freely. Matthew 10:8 The gift is the Bible and the Holy Spirit who teaches it. Just as we received Christ for salvation, we also walk the same way. Colossians 2:6 We received salvation by grace through faith. Ephesians 2:8,9 We live by grace through faith.

Should we pray for knowledge (Ephesians 1:18)? How do we overcome sin in our life (Romans 8:13)? Do we set rules (Colossians 2:21-23)? NO!! Instead of rules we set our mind on the Spirit of God and use the Scripture to walk in grace through faith. It is the Spirit that enlightens our mind to the truth of the Scripture for today (John 14:26). It is the Spirit that shows the way. The way of faith. The way of no fear (Philippians 4:6-9). It is the prayer that connects our mind to the Spirit to walk through hell (Psalms 23:4; Jude 1:23) without fear (John 11:40), but in faith.

Si_monfaith said:

Both the knowledge and faith are free gifts. Can man please God using His free gifts?

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Yes, we please God with the gifts given to us. Hebrews 11:6 We live in hope (Romans 8:24,25) as we walk in grace through faith with the hope of the power of God meeting our need and other peoples needs (Jude 1:23) as we establish the Kingdom of God further.

Si_monfaith said:

God is pleased with us only because He chooses to be pleased with us and not because of the free gifts which He gives.

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God is please with us because we decide to have faith for the impossible. Mark 11:22-25; Hebrews 11:6

Does God have pleasure with people that are not walking in faith?

scottmcc2 said:

Praise God monfaith. I am blessed to be able to respond to your post.
Those who don't have knowledge are destroyed. Hosea 4:6
My people go into exile for a lack of knowledge. Isaiah 5:13
"An ox knows its owner, And a donkey its master's manger, But Israel does not know, My people do not understand." Isaiah 1:3

Yes knowledge is given to us freely. Matthew 10:8 The gift is the Bible and the Holy Spirit who teaches it. Just as we received Christ for salvation, we also walk the same way. Colossians 2:6 We received salvation by grace through faith. Ephesians 2:8,9 We live by grace through faith.

Should we pray for knowledge (Ephesians 1:18)? How do we overcome sin in our life (Romans 8:13)? Do we set rules (Colossians 2:21-23)? NO!! Instead of rules we set our mind on the Spirit of God and use the Scripture to walk in grace through faith. It is the Spirit that enlightens our mind to the truth of the Scripture for today (John 14:26). It is the Spirit that shows the way. The way of faith. The way of no fear (Philippians 4:6-9). It is the prayer that connects our mind to the Spirit to walk through hell (Psalms 23:4; Jude 1:23) without fear (John 11:40), but in faith.



Yes, we please God with the gifts given to us. Hebrews 11:6 We live in hope (Romans 8:24,25) as we walk in grace through faith with the hope of the power of God meeting our need and other peoples needs (Jude 1:23) as we establish the Kingdom of God further.



God is please with us because we decide to have faith for the impossible. Mark 11:22-25; Hebrews 11:6

Does God have pleasure with people that are not walking in faith?

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So are you going to say, "I produced faith and believed and so I have earned the place wherein God is pleased with me"?

Si_monfaith said:

So are you going to say, "I produced faith and believed and so I have earned the place wherein God is pleased with me"?

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A car has an engine and gears. The car could be in park but the engine won't do anything until it is put in gear. God gives us faith 2 Peter 1:1 Faith won't profit us if we don't use it. Mark 11:22 God is pleased when we use the faith God has given us. Just as the man with talents was blessed for using the talents he was given. Matthew 25:14-30

scottmcc2 said:

A car has an engine and gears. The car could be in park but the engine won't do anything until it is put in gear. God gives us faith 2 Peter 1:1 Faith won't profit us if we don't use it. Mark 11:22 God is pleased when we use the faith God has given us. Just as the man with talents was blessed for using the talents he was given. Matthew 25:14-30

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When faith (assurance of salvation) is given by the Lord, man cannot refrain from thinking and confessing about the Lord. Such is the power of His assurance.

A person (in contrast to the mentally challenged) who knows the sense of power that accompanies driving cannot refrain himself from revving.

To say, "I confessed and so I was saved and God was pleased", appears to betray ignorance about the power of the freely given assurance.

This is just the same as saying, "I revved and so the car moves & my dad was pleased".

So rather than confess what we did to please God, we could say how powerful was the assurance He gave us.

Si_monfaith said:

Can faith be produced by man? That I think is the crucial question to be answered first.

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Faith comes as a result of a spiritual revelation into our spirit by Christ. We cannot generate faith on our own. What many people call faith is merely mental assent, which is good for the renewal of your mind... but it is not faith as defined by the NT.

Didaskalos said:

Faith comes as a result of a spiritual revelation into our spirit by Christ. We cannot generate faith on our own. What many people call faith is merely mental assent, which is good for the renewal of your mind... but it is not faith as defined by the NT.

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Very true.

Spirit of Pentecost said:

What exactly is the Word of Faith movement? Are they Charismatic or not? Trinitarian or not?

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I just now found this thread and thought I'd offer my thoughts. Most of what you read and hear from WoF critics is wrong. They make some valid points here and there, but most of them are driven by a cessationist or Reformed theological agenda rather than an honest and objective analysis of the teaching.

If you really want to know what the WoF movement is and what it believes, read Kenneth Hagin's books. He was the leader of the movement and the core beliefs can be found in his writings. Not everybody agrees with everything he taught, but on the issues of faith, healing, confession, prosperity, and the ministry of the Holy Spirit I think there's pretty much widespread agreement in the movement.

WoF teaches that physical healing is part and parcel of the gospel, and that Isaiah 53:4,5 show us that it's included in the atonement. It teaches that believing God's Word, confessing it, and acting on it brings corresponding results, and that there is no biblical faith apart from the revealed will of God in the Word of God. WoF is Charismatic, and essentially follows the views of the Assemblies of God denomination in that regard. It is also Trinitarian, and holds to the other essential doctrines of the Christian faith like original sin, justification by faith, the second coming, a literal heaven and hell, repentance from dead works ... etc.

WoF critics like to cherry pick quotes from people in the movement (usually somebody besides Kenneth Hagin who basically made a mess of what he taught) and present that as what the movement believes and teaches. By the way, Benny Hinn is NOT WoF! WoF critics love to take things that he says and does and present them as representative of the movement, but he renounced WoF teaching in 1993. By his own admission his influences were primarily Catholicism and Kathryn Kuhlman, and he returned to those roots after trying to teach WoF in the 1980s. Anybody who says he's WoF is either ignorant or lying ... perhaps both.

Welcome back Simon !