Jesus is Jehovah's "holy servant"

Dartman · Sep 4, 2017

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
The Bible says we take off corruptible and put on incorruptible... flesh is corrupted why would we still have it.

Nope, you are confused.
We don't take off flesh, we take off mortality. Jesus is CLEARLY "flesh and bones", and he is clearly immortal!

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
Also there's not single verse that says we keep flesh and I mean we as in humans.

Of course there is;
Job 19:25-27 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: 26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: 27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.
And, 1 Cor 15 clearly discusses different kinds of bodies ... but they are STILL bodies! And, it is THIS BODY, that "puts on immortality", and that changes to be "incorruptible".

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
Also Jesus is the mediator even after ressurextion our God still has that connection he walked as a man but he's not a man anymore he simply carries the title as son now because he was manifested as the son on earth.

You are denying the words Paul used, and replacing them with your opinion.

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
Logically Paul would refence him as the man or savior just like he does as father, God, master... they are all just titles that represent what he has done and has manifested as.

Hogwash. This is pure speculation.

JESUS=G.O.A.T · Sep 4, 2017

Dartman said:
Nope, you are confused.
We don't take off flesh, we take off mortality. Jesus is CLEARLY "flesh and bones", and he is clearly immortal!
Of course there is;
Job 19:25-27 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: 26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: 27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.
And, 1 Cor 15 clearly discusses different kinds of bodies ... but they are STILL bodies! And, it is THIS BODY, that "puts on immortality", and that changes to be "incorruptible".

You are denying the words Paul used, and replacing them with your opinion. Hogwash. This is pure speculation.

1. How is quoting a bible verse being confused? In order to take off mortality you must take off flesh flesh dies and as job puts it rots in the grave that's even common sense even outside the bible.

2. verse 25 is just Job establishing confidence in the redeemer aka God btw JESUS is also referred too as the redeemer (not in this verse I'm just pointing that out that JESUS is called this in another one I can bring up if you request it). Verse 26 is Job pointing out how he expects to die he then goes on in verse 27 to say that although he will lie in the grave with his body decayed he will see God.

This is job hoping for life after death not describing the post life process.He also states that his body will be...decayed essentially in the text. (I took time to review the text before I made this reply, it's been a bit since I read this section)

3. i'm not replacing teh words of Paul i'm just pointing out that Paul sometimes references JESUS as JESUS, sometimes God, sometimes the man christ JESUS, sometimes the Father. IT's a fact that in his writings he doesn't reference one thing the same way here's one example.

Romans 8:9

“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”

King James Version (KJV)

Different titles for the same thing.

4. There is widespread dispute among theologians and people about whether or not people will even recognize each other in heaven... trust me you'll have an even harder time arguing that you know what type of bodies we will have. This is something that's disputed by everybody it's kind of like the whole tribulation stuff but 3 times worse...no agreement even among people in the same faiths.

Ronald · Sep 4, 2017

Dartman said:
You realize you're twisting these verses to mean Jesus is the Father ...... right??

No, He is the exact expression, radiance, glory and grace of the Father. As I quoted scriptures that require Him to have all the power, knowledge and presence that the Father has, what else can I say? If those scriptures don't do it for ya, I tried my best. Know this, that the majority of 2.3 billion accept the Tribune God. Imagine the tens of thousands of theologians all accept this concept for centuries upon centuries and YOU stand there and reject it.
Please tell me what church you attend at least, where you studied?

Dartman · Sep 4, 2017

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
1. How is quoting a bible verse being confused?

You didn't quote a verse, you gave an opinion.

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
In order to take off mortality you must take off flesh

No.
Those that are Christ's at his coming will be CHANGED ... they don't put off flesh, their mortal flesh becomes immortal flesh.

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
flesh dies and as job puts it rots in the grave that's even common sense even outside the bible.

Of course. But, the resurrection is the body being brought back to life.

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
2. verse 25 is just Job establishing confidence in the redeemer aka God btw JESUS is also referred too as the redeemer (not in this verse I'm just pointing that out that JESUS is called this in another one I can bring up if you request it). Verse 26 is Job pointing out how he expects to die he then goes on in verse 27 to say that although he will lie in the grave with his body decayed he will see God.

No, in his flesh he will see God. As a resurrected, immortal body.

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
3. i'm not replacing teh words of Paul i'm just pointing out that Paul sometimes references JESUS as JESUS, sometimes God, sometimes the man christ JESUS, sometimes the Father. IT's a fact that in his writings he doesn't reference one thing the same way here's one example.

Romans 8:9

“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”

King James Version (KJV)

Different titles for the same thing.

No. Different titles for similar things. Jesus was given the spirit of God, which altered Jesus' own spirit. We can have God's spirit, by acquiring the spirit of Christ... since Christ subjected his own spirit to his God's spirit.

Dartman · Sep 4, 2017

Ronald said:
Dartman said:

You realize you're twisting these verses to mean Jesus is the Father ...... right??

Click to expand...

No, He is the exact expression, radiance, glory and grace of the Father. As I quoted scriptures that require Him to have all the power, knowledge and presence that the Father has, what else can I say? If those scriptures don't do it for ya, I tried my best. Know this, that the majority of 2.3 billion accept the Tribune God. Imagine the tens of thousands of theologians all accept this concept for centuries upon centuries and YOU stand there and reject it.

Since you don't have Scripture to prove your theory, your trying for "majority rules"????
Matt 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Ronald said:
Please tell me what church you attend at least, where you studied?

That's not relevant. What's relevant is, do I accept the "Jesus" actually PREACHED by the apostles.
The trinity is NEVER ..... EVER ..... PREACHED by the apostles.

Dartman · Sep 4, 2017

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
Lastly though if you can't handle scripture just say so... I didn't bomb you with scriptures I posted 5 scriptures

All 5 of which were taken out of context and distorted to such an extent, that EACH would require a separate post, just to untangle.
I have attempted to correct your errors on a couple, and will be happy to continue with each, but not all at once.
By the way, you STILL have not addressed Isa 42:1-8, with Acts 4 from the OP.

JESUS=G.O.A.T · Sep 4, 2017

Dartman said:
You didn't quote a verse, you gave an opinion.
No.
Those that are Christ's at his coming will be CHANGED ... they don't put off flesh, their mortal flesh becomes immortal flesh.

Of course. But, the resurrection is the body being brought back to life.

No, in his flesh he will see God. As a resurrected, immortal body.

No. Different titles for similar things. Jesus was given the spirit of God, which altered Jesus' own spirit. We can have God's spirit, by acquiring the spirit of Christ... since Christ subjected his own spirit to his God's spirit.

1. All I said was corruptible becomes incorruptible.

Then like you I voiced my opinion (becuase no one has the answer) about what bodies post death will be like.

2. not human flesh is what i'm saying though it seems as if you're suggesting the flesh remains...if you weren't then I misunderstood you. I believe we will have a body post death as most... but what that body is idk I just know for sure it's not human flesh based off the bible.

3. mmm.... not the human body though the bible mentions how someone who passes away ends up resting with the Lord in the meantime before he returns for his people. Now how they go from that position to resurrect the bible doesn't really say but it never indicates that the flesh they died with is risen up as well so it's not safe to conclude that's the case. Like I mentioned already it's pointless in us arguing a topic though that even people who know the Word to a insane standard like Matthew Woodward for example can't fully answer.

4. The verse never uses any of the typical terms associated with resurrect in the bible such as resurrect ironically, rise, ascend to heaven or none of that. Job was clearly saying that even in his grave or even in his dead flesh he would see JESUS. HE says yet in my flesh as in the flesh he has on the one with the worms.

5. JESUS was given the fullness of the Spirit of God btw. And no the Spirit of God is the same thing as the Spirit of Christ, or the Spirit of the Father etc. just different titles. I'll show you an example of this in the gospels if you request it.

JESUS=G.O.A.T · Sep 4, 2017

Dartman said:
All 5 of which were taken out of context and distorted to such an extent, that EACH would require a separate post, just to untangle.
I have attempted to correct your errors on a couple, and will be happy to continue with each, but not all at once.
By the way, you STILL have not addressed Isa 42:1-8, with Acts 4 from the OP.

I wasn't talking to you I was talking to the other person in that reply and k i'll address those.

JESUS=G.O.A.T · Sep 4, 2017

Dartman said:
All 5 of which were taken out of context and distorted to such an extent, that EACH would require a separate post, just to untangle.
I have attempted to correct your errors on a couple, and will be happy to continue with each, but not all at once.
By the way, you STILL have not addressed Isa 42:1-8, with Acts 4 from the OP.

Oh that's rather simple.

JESUS humbled himself as a servant below angels just as he manifested himself as a man hence the titles "man christ JESUS" , "servant", "lord", "son," "God", here's one verse that kind of breaks this down iroincally in isaiah.

Isaiah 9:6King James Version (KJV)
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace

So yeah I mean JESUS has a lot of titles the name JESUS embodies everything in that one name, Jehovah, Lord, Master, I am, Mighty God, etc all based on his qualities, manifestations, and roles.

Also JESUS is declared as creating heaven and Earth as well just to address that first part of isiah 42

Colossians 1:15-17King James Version (KJV)
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Dartman · Sep 4, 2017

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
1. All I said was corruptible becomes incorruptible.

Then like you I voiced my opinion (becuase no one has the answer) about what bodies post death will be like.

Jesus proved what bodies post resurrection are like. He is "flesh and bones".

2. not human flesh is what i'm saying though it seems as if you're suggesting the flesh remains...if you weren't then I misunderstood you. I believe we will have a body post death as most... but what that body is idk I just know for sure it's not human flesh based off the bible.[/quote]I think you are confusing "human" with "mortal". Jesus is still "human", he is still a "man". He is an immortal man, the very first of God's new creation.

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
3. mmm.... not the human body though the bible mentions how someone who passes away ends up resting with the Lord in the meantime before he returns for his people.

Where???

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
4. The verse never uses any of the typical terms associated with resurrect in the bible such as resurrect ironically, rise, ascend to heaven or none of that.

Only Jesus "ascended to heaven"!

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
Job was clearly saying that even in his grave or even in his dead flesh he would see JESUS. HE says yet in my flesh as in the flesh he has on.

Nope. Job was saying even though his body was consumed by worms, he would see God/Jehovah/YHVH in a flesh body.

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
5. JESUS was given the fullness of the Spirit of God btw.

Yes.

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
And no the Spirit of God is the same thing as the Spirit of Christ, or the Spirit of the Father etc. just different titles.

No.
Jesus' spirit BECAME the same as his God's, because he "learned obedience". God's spirit is not altered by anyone.
Luke 2:40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.

Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

Heb 5:8-9 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

JESUS=G.O.A.T · Sep 4, 2017

Dartman said:
Jesus proved what bodies post resurrection are like. He is "flesh and bones".

2. not human flesh is what i'm saying though it seems as if you're suggesting the flesh remains...if you weren't then I misunderstood you. I believe we will have a body post death as most... but what that body is idk I just know for sure it's not human flesh based off the bible.

I think you are confusing "human" with "mortal". Jesus is still "human", he is still a "man". He is an immortal man, the very first of God's new creation.

Where???

Only Jesus "ascended to heaven"!

Nope. Job was saying even though his body was consumed by worms, he would see God/Jehovah/YHVH in a flesh body.

Yes.
No.
Jesus' spirit BECAME the same as his God's, because he "learned obedience". God's spirit is not altered by anyone.
Luke 2:40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.

Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

Heb 5:8-9 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;[/QUOTE]

1. What verse are you referring to here? If it's the one I think you are there's an important thing to point out about it. But I would like you to quote it just incase i'm thinking of the wrong one.

2. John 3:13 sets the stage for what I mentioned in regards to being with the lord as well as revelations 20:13

Verses about being with the Lord Luke 16:22-23, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, 2 corinthians 5:1-10,

3.That's my point since only JESUS ascended into heaven it's logical to assume Job's not referring to having another body...becuase we don't receive that body until we ascend. Not to mention the fact Job was simply expecting to die in this passage... he wasn't teaching a lecture about the afterlife.

4. Luke 2:40 and Luke 2:52 are referring to the 100% human flesh not the 100% deity. The flesh which housed the Word and fullness of the Godhead had to grow and mature. Hebrews 8 refers to the suffering of JESUS in the flesh and verse 9 the perfection of the Godhead within. JESUS in the flesh had to grow and mature and fast and learn but the Godhead was always developed it was always perfect. God is always perfect and always ready but he experienced what it was like to be man and that required growth, maturity, and submission of the flesh.

Just as we have to deny the flesh and be baptized and fast he did these also.

Dartman · Sep 4, 2017

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
Oh that's rather simple.

JESUS humbled himself as a servant below angels just as he manifested himself as a man hence the titles "man christ JESUS" , "servant", "lord", "son," "God", here's one verse that kind of breaks this down iroincally in isaiah.

Isaiah 9:6King James Version (KJV)
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace

So yeah I mean JESUS has a lot of titles the name JESUS embodies everything in that one name, Jehovah, Lord, Master, I am, Mighty God, etc all based on his qualities, manifestations, and roles.

Your attempted explanation fails on several counts.
1) Isa 9:6 explains a name Jesus will be called, it isn't a series of titles.
2) This does NOTHING to explain Jesus as a promised servant of Jehovah's.
3) Jehovah is clearly the Creator of heaven and earth, and all that dwell on it.

Jesus=G.O.A.T said:
Also JESUS is declared as creating heaven and Earth as well just to address that first part of isiah 42

No, he is not. Jesus is ONLY credited with creating the "cosmos" in which Paul and the apostles lived, and in which we live. Jesus is NEVER declared as the creator described in Genesis, that is ALWAYS Jehovah;

Colossians 1:15-17
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Paul is explaining that Jesus, the "firstborn of every creature" and "creature" is a CREATED THING!!!
Jesus is the "firstborn from the dead"
And, has created "thrones, dominions, principalities and powers"... both heaven and earth.... things that ARE .. (present tense to Paul's writing) .... NOT the original creation of heaven and earth!
We know from Isa 42, and Acts 4, that Jehovah/YHVH God created THOSE things, and that Jesus is HIS (Jehovah/YHVH God's) servant!

Sorry, your convoluted efforts have failed.
Do you want to try again?

Dartman · Sep 4, 2017

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
Dartman said:

I think you are confusing "human" with "mortal". Jesus is still "human", he is still a "man". He is an immortal man, the very first of God's new creation.

Where???

Only Jesus "ascended to heaven"!

Nope. Job was saying even though his body was consumed by worms, he would see God/Jehovah/YHVH in a flesh body.

Yes.
No.
Jesus' spirit BECAME the same as his God's, because he "learned obedience". God's spirit is not altered by anyone.
Luke 2:40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.

Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

Heb 5:8-9 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Click to expand...

1. What verse are you referring to here? If it's the one I think you are there's an important thing to point out about it. But I would like you to quote it just incase i'm thinking of the wrong one.

2. John 3:13 sets the stage for what I mentioned in regards to being with the lord as well as revelations 20:13

Verses about being with the Lord Luke 16:22-23, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, 2 corinthians 5:1-10,

3.That's my point since only JESUS ascended into heaven it's logical to assume Job's not referring to having another body...becuase we don't receive that body until we ascend. Not to mention the fact Job was simply expecting to die in this passage... he wasn't teaching a lecture about the afterlife.

4. Luke 2:40 and Luke 2:52 are referring to the 100% human flesh not the 100% deity. The flesh which housed the Word and fullness of the Godhead had to grow and mature. Hebrews 8 refers to the suffering of JESUS in the flesh and verse 9 the perfection of the Godhead within. JESUS in the flesh had to grow and mature and fast and learn but the Godhead was always developed it was always perfect. God is always perfect and always ready but he experienced what it was like to be man and that required growth, maturity, and submission of the flesh.

Just as we have to deny the flesh and be baptized and fast he did these also.

Your formatting is making it VERY hard to give an orderly reply.

JESUS=G.O.A.T · Sep 4, 2017

Dartman said:
Your attempted explanation fails on several counts.
1) Isa 9:6 explains a name Jesus will be called, it isn't a series of titles.
2) This does NOTHING to explain Jesus as a promised servant of Jehovah's.
3) Jehovah is clearly the Creator of heaven and earth, and all that dwell on it.

No, he is not. Jesus is ONLY credited with creating the "cosmos" in which Paul and the apostles lived, and in which we live. Jesus is NEVER declared as the creator described in Genesis, that is ALWAYS Jehovah;

Colossians 1:15-17
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Paul is explaining that Jesus, the "firstborn of every creature" and "creature" is a CREATED THING!!!
Jesus is the "firstborn from the dead"
And, has created "thrones, dominions, principalities and powers"... both heaven and earth.... things that ARE .. (present tense to Paul's writing) .... NOT the original creation of heaven and earth!
We know from Isa 42, and Acts 4, that Jehovah/YHVH God created THOSE things, and that Jesus is HIS (Jehovah/YHVH God's) servant!

Sorry, your convoluted efforts have failed.
Do you want to try again?

They haven't failed...they have simply failed to persuade you but i'm not surprised... from what I can tell you're probably and older individual (this is a compliment just based off the way you present things) and it's impossible to convince people at a certain point. There are many studies that point towards a certain age in which you're sort of....stuck with whatever views you have. That's why it's hard to convince pastors for example to change even false pastors for example becuase most pastors are 40 and up.

Your uh... claim of my uh..idk how to put it your claim that my attempt fails fails on many counts.

1. Isaiah 9:6 presents titles/names that are all encompassed within this name aka JESUS even though the buildup is towards that mighty name. Such as the fact that he is God and will continue to be the mighty God as JESUS christ. You're looking at it from just a front to back perspective instead of both ways.

2. It does it shows that servant is simply a title he came to serve and reach the lost, he humbled himself as a servant remember?

3. And Jehovah is clearly JESUS

Philippians 2:8

“And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.”

Conclusion: JESUS chose to humble himself and be obedient he didn't have to he did it himself.

4. Eh you would have a ok argument there about JESUS not being the original creator if this portion of the scripture didn't exist and if that applied to heaven and earth and visible and invisible which has this statement before it. I posted the whole scripture but really I was emphasizing the past tense portion the one before the section you highlighted in red.

For by him all things were (past tense) created

ANd yep the flesh was created i'm not disputing that. JESUS manifested himself as a body or creature that was created.

JESUS=G.O.A.T · Sep 4, 2017

Dartman said:
Your formatting is making it VERY hard to give an orderly reply.

tbh I just use the format to help me out but I'll consider you in the next one.

Dartman · Sep 4, 2017

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
They haven't failed...they have simply failed to persuade you but i'm not surprised... from what I can tell you're probably and older individual (this is a compliment just based off the way you present things) and it's impossible to convince people at a certain point. There are many studies that point towards a certain age in which you're sort of....stuck with whatever views you have. That's why it's hard to convince pastors for example to change even false pastors for example becuase most pastors are 40 and up.

All you need to do is, provide VERSES that actually explain your theory.
So far, you have not.

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
Your uh... claim of my uh..idk how to put it your claim that my attempt fails fails on many counts.

1. Isaiah 9:6 presents titles/names that are all encompassed within this name aka JESUS even though the buildup is towards that mighty name. Such as the fact that he is God and will continue to be the mighty God as JESUS christ. You're looking at it from just a front to back perspective instead of both ways.

No.
You are merely trying to make the verse say WAY more than it actually says.
This is understandable, since you have a theory that VERY simply is NEVER ..... EVER .... explained, preached, taught or stated in the Scriptures!

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
2. It does it shows that servant is simply a title he came to serve and reach the lost, he humbled himself as a servant remember?

You are trying to deny what the text ACTUALLY STATES!

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
3. And Jehovah is clearly JESUS

Philippians 2:8

“And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.”

Conclusion: JESUS chose to humble himself and be obedient he didn't have to he did it himself.

1) You start with an error that is NEVER stated in the text!
2)Jesus "humbled himself" during his ministry! THAT'S when he behaved as a servant, and obeyed unto death!

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
4. Eh you would have a ok argument there about JESUS not being the original creator if this portion of the scripture didn't exist...

For by him all things were (past tense) created

So? There is ZERO indication that is before Jesus resurrection! Matt 28:18 was stated YEARS before Col 1!
What we KNOW is, Jesus is a CREATURE! Jesus was dead, and God "cannot die".
What we KNOW is, Jesus created "thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers".
What we KNOW is, Jehovah created Jesus, and heaven and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is.

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
ANd yep the flesh was created i'm not disputing that. JESUS manifested himself as a body or creature that was created.

Not according to ANY preaching in the Scriptures. This is a hodge-podge of pagan theories mixed with a handful of Scriptures taken out of context.
Jesus didn't "manifest himself".
Jesus "came forth" unto Jehovah in Bethlehem, just like Jehovah foretold from of old, from everlasting;
Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

JESUS=G.O.A.T · Sep 4, 2017

Dartman said:
All you need to do is, provide VERSES that actually explain your theory.
So far, you have not.
No.
You are merely trying to make the verse say WAY more than it actually says.
This is understandable, since you have a theory that VERY simply is NEVER ..... EVER .... explained, preached, taught or stated in the Scriptures!

You are trying to deny what the text ACTUALLY STATES!

1) You start with an error that is NEVER stated in the text!
2)Jesus "humbled himself" during his ministry! THAT'S when he behaved as a servant, and obeyed unto death!

So? There is ZERO indication that is before Jesus resurrection! Matt 28:18 was stated YEARS before Col 1!
What we KNOW is, Jesus is a CREATURE! Jesus was dead, and God "cannot die".
What we KNOW is, Jesus created "thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers".
What we KNOW is, Jehovah created Jesus, and heaven and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is.

Not according to ANY preaching in the Scriptures. This is a hodge-podge of pagan theories mixed with a handful of Scriptures taken out of context.
Jesus didn't "manifest himself".
Jesus "came forth" unto Jehovah in Bethlehem, just like Jehovah foretold from of old, from everlasting;
Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

1. I've provided the verses you've just ignored them

2. Look man I know I tend to extend or explain a verse beyond just what it says. But i'm literally just telling you what the verse says. But i'm not emphasizing or extending here...the verse literally says that he will be called the prince of peace, God, the Father....idk how else to help you here. I"m trying but that theory in which the age keeps you from opening up is just hindering my message.

Maybe if I just...show you that this prophecy was fulfilled that JESUS is the name but he's referred to as other things maybe that will help you.

JESUS being refered to other things

1. God is the Father (Malachi 2:10

1A. JESUS is the father (Isiah 9:6, John 14:5-9)

1B. JESUS is honored as the father 5:23

2. JESUS will be called God as indicated in Isiah 9:6

2A. JESUS ends up being called God in Titus 2:13, John 20:28, Col 2:9

2C. JESUS claimed to be God John 8:24, John 8:56-59

You then proceed to claim I deny the text about the servant when I don't. The text says he served and he was a servant i'm not disputing that. All i'm saying is that's a role he played while manifested on Earth so later when it's utilized it's as a title to represent how he humbled himself as a servant. You claim I am adding to the text by suggesting JESUS was already humbling himself as a servant even pre his ministry. Before you post something...read the whole section man.

Philippians 2:7King James Version (KJV)
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Conclusion: He manifested himself as a servant and made himself of no reputation.

Response to argument about JESUS not being the original creator

I'm not sure what a portion of scripture being manifested before another has to do with anything, and i'm not sure how it helps you if one scripture is seemingly saying something (at first glance anyway to the natural eye) different than the one you utilized.

It seems you can't address this verse... you keep saying we know that Jehovah created heaven and Earth but we know that JESUS created heaven and Earth as well. Not to mention image as in the exact copy,likeness and reflection of the deity of God. So JESUS must be JEhovah right? Or is the bible just hypocritical?

Colossians 1:15-17King James Version (KJV)
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Not to mention JESUS is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent just...like....God

Dartman · Sep 4, 2017

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
1. I've provided the verses you've just ignored them

Nope. If you can find any text I have ignored, I will be happy to discuss it with you, but I don't think I have missed a single one you posted in response to me.
Now, I most certainly HAVE corrected your attempted interpretation OF those verses ..... but I have NOT "ignored" them.

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
2. Look man I know I tend to extend or explain a verse beyond just what it says. But i'm literally just telling you what the verse says. But i'm not emphasizing or extending here...the verse literally says that he will be called the prince of peace, God, the Father....idk how else to help you here. I"m trying but that theory in which the age keeps you from opening up is just hindering my message.

No, it does NOT!!
The verse SAYS "his NAME will be called"...... NOT "he will be called". Hebrew names FREQUENTLY included these kinds of phrases!!
You have misinterpreted this text SO MANY TIMES you now THINK you are actually QUOTING it!

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
You then proceed to claim I deny the text about the servant when I don't. The text says he served and he was a servant i'm not disputing that. All i'm saying is that's a role he played while manifested on Earth so later when it's utilized it's as a title to represent how he humbled himself as a servant. You claim I am adding to the text by suggesting JESUS was already humbling himself as a servant even pre his ministry. Before you post something...read the whole section man.

Philippians 2:7King James Version (KJV)
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Conclusion: He manifested himself as a servant and made himself of no reputation.

Response to argument about JESUS not being the original creator

I'm not sure what a portion of scripture being manifested before another has to do with anything, and i'm not sure how it helps you if one scripture is seemingly saying something (at first glance anyway to the natural eye) different than the one you utilized.

It seems you can't address this verse... you keep saying we know that Jehovah created heaven and Earth but we know that JESUS created heaven and Earth as well. Not to mention image as in the exact copy,likeness and reflection of the deity of God. So JESUS must be JEhovah right? Or is the bible just hypocritical?

Colossians 1:15-17King James Version (KJV)
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Not to mention JESUS is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent just...like....God

The things Jesus created are listed by Paul; thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers! These things were created BY HIS MINISTRY AND HIS DEATH, BURIAL AND RESURRECTION.

JESUS=G.O.A.T · Sep 4, 2017

Dartman said:
Nope. If you can find any text I have ignored, I will be happy to discuss it with you, but I don't think I have missed a single one you posted in response to me.
Now, I most certainly HAVE corrected your attempted interpretation OF those verses ..... but I have NOT "ignored" them.

No, it does NOT!!
The verse SAYS "his NAME will be called"...... NOT "he will be called". Hebrew names FREQUENTLY included these kinds of phrases!!
You have misinterpreted this text SO MANY TIMES you now THINK you are actually QUOTING it!

The things Jesus created are listed by Paul; thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers! These things were created BY HIS MINISTRY AND HIS DEATH, BURIAL AND RESURRECTION.

1. was heaven, Earth...and the visible and invisible created by his death, burial, and resurrection? Stop avoiding the question... you know what i'm focusing on, that portion of the verse.

2. His name is who he is, he is JESUS so I don't get your point.

Also even if lets say your theory was true (which I don't' understand but lets say it applies) ... can you explain the verses I mentioned??

JESUS being refered to other things

1. God is the Father (Malachi 2:10

1A. JESUS is the father (Isiah 9:6, John 14:5-9)

1B. JESUS is honored as the father 5:23

2A. JESUS ends up being called God in Titus 2:13, John 20:28, Col 2:9

2C. JESUS claimed to be God John 8:24, John 8:56-59

3. we will just have to beg to disagree on who's ignoring scriptures

Dartman · Sep 4, 2017

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
1. was heaven, Earth...and the visible and invisible created by his death, burial, and resurrection? Stop avoiding the question... you know what i'm focusing on, that portion of the verse.

The text NEVER states Jesus created heaven, and earth!! It states he created "thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers" that are IN heaven and earth. You need to read more carefully!

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
2. His name is who he is, he is JESUS so I don't get your point.

Is everyone named Michael you know like God? That's what the name means. Hebrew names had meaning;
Isa 8:3 And I went unto the prophetess; and she conceived, and bare a son. Then said Jehovah unto me, Call his name Maher-shalal-hash-baz.... which means "He has made haste to the plunder!

According to Isa 9:6 Jesus will be called; Pele’Yow’eets’EelGibowrAbiy’adSarShaalowm

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
Also even if lets say your theory was true (which I don't' understand but lets say it applies) ... can you explain the verses I mentioned??

Of course!

JESUS being refered to other things

1. God is the Father (Malachi 2:10) ........ Yes.

1A. JESUS is the father (Isiah 9:6, John 14:5-9).....he is not, you are grossly misinterpreting.

1B. JESUS is honored as the father 5:23 .... Of course! Since the Father sent him!

2A. JESUS ends up being called God in Titus 2:13, John 20:28, Col 2:9 ....he is not, you are grossly misinterpreting.

2C. JESUS claimed to be God John 8:24, John 8:56-59 .. Never, you are grossly misinterpreting, exactly like the Jews that rejected Jesus misunderstood.

Jesus is Jehovah's "holy servant"

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