GOD'S LAW (10 commandments) ARE FOREVER!

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LoveGodsWord

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You keep bringing up Colossians 2:14-17 as though it supports your position, but you're not really interacting with what I've said about it. The Colossians were keeping God's holy days in obedience to God's commands and they were being judged by those promoting human precepts and teachings, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body (Colossians 2:20-23), so Paul was writing the Colossians to encourage them not to let any man judge them for obeying what God has commanded.

Not just Colossians 2:14-17 but also Hebrews 8:1-5; 6-13; Hebrews 10:1-19; Hebrews chapters 9; 10; John 1:29; 1 Corinthians 5:6-7; Romans 2:28-29 which all refer to the ceremonial laws of Moses pointing to Jesus as being a shadows that were done away with at the cross. The other scriptures are in support of Colossians 2:14-17. You argument above is that the scriptures in Colossians 2:14-17 is only talking about judging others for keeping the ceremonial laws but you neglect the scriptures in verses 14 and 17.

Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

You interpret this verse as the handwriting of ordinances as being the sign that was posted on the cross by the Romans for the crime of Jesus which reads “King of the Jews” Question, if your interpretation is correct; how was this sign of Jesus crime “King of the Jews” an ordinance? How was this blotted out? How was it contrary to us? How is it a shadow of things to come in v17? None of the above makes any sense and you have no scripture support for your theory that Col 2:14 is referring to the Roman sign posted on the cross.

However, if you have an understanding of the Old and New Testament scriptures and the ceremonial laws of Moses and what is being referred to as shadows that pointed to Jesus as the scripture is talking about not only in Colossian 2 but in other parts of scripture everything falls into place.

(v14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances; The Greek meaning of the Word G5498 χειρόγραφον; cheirographon; which means; hand written manuscript, document, book which is combined with ordinance G1378 δόγμα dogma dog'-mah From the base of G1380; which means; civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical laws: The Greek meaning of handwriting of ordinances in V14 is a hand written book of civil, ceremonial and ecclesiastical laws. These laws, along with our sin is referred to in verse 14 that have been erased and are nailed to the cross. Our sins because we no longer need to provide animal sacrifices under the ceremonial laws of Moses for forgiveness. The ceremonial laws that pointed to Jesus because Jesus fulfilled these at His death, resurrection and new administration as our great high Priest in the Heavenly Sanctuary not made with hands of which the earthly was a copy.

Clearly the Roman sign of Jesus crime “King of the Jews” is not a ceremonial and ecclesiastical law written in a book.

Your focus is on verse 16 which is about judging others in relation to the ceremonial laws of Moses but you ignore verse 14 which clearly states that the ceremonial laws of Moses were nailed to the cross along with our sins and verse 17, which says that these ceremonial law were a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. These scriptures clearly link with other scriptures from the same writer here; Hebrews 8:1-5; 6-13; Hebrews 10:1-19; Colosians 2:14;17; Hebrews chapters 9; 10; John 1:29; 1Cor 5:6-7; Rom 2:28-29.

We are in the New Covenant now not the Old.

Hebrews 8:13,
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decays and waxes old is ready to vanish away.

Ok friend seems like we are going around in circles. So let’s agree to disagree. If you want to keep the ceremonial laws of Moses it is between you and God. I do not judge you. It is only God’s Word that judges us in the last days (John 12:47-48)
 
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LoveGodsWord

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There's no request for the stone tablets to be separate from the rest of the law. In referencing Deuteronomy as from God you also must conclude the law(s) not on the tablets are also from God or God made no such request. Deuteronomy would then be only words of Moses, not God. The priesthood also would be the doing of Moses and not God. You have a problem.

Deuteronomy 10:5
And I turned myself and came down from the mount, and put the tables in the ark which I had made; and there they be, as the LORD commanded me.

Deuteronomy 31:24-26

24, And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, 25, That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, 26, Take this book of the law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

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LoveGodsWord

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The law of Moses, also called the law of God (Nehemiah 8:18) was not nailed to the cross. Our death penalty is what was nailed to the cross. Christ being the fulfillment or revelation of God's holy days does not mean that they are gone and no longer observed. We can fully observe them now in light of the full revelation, through Messiah, of God's holy days in Leviticus 23

There is a distinction between what God does and what is done through mankind. What God does is forever (Ecc 3:14). God's Law is in reference to His Work. The 10 commandments were not the work of man they were the work of God himself, written by God with His own finger on two tables of stone. Spoken by God himself to His people and held separate from the ceremonial laws of Moses because they were the work of God himself. These were only documented in the book of Moses but God's Law was indeed the work of God and as such God's Law aka the 10 commandments. Obviously the 10 commandments being the work of God himself written on tables of stone and spoken by God is different to the laws of Moses that where written in a book and kept separate from God's Law (Exodus 20:1-17; Exodus 31:18; Exodus 31:18; 32:16; Deuteronomy 10:5; 31:25)

Yes our death penalty was indeed nailed to the cross:oldthumbsup: This also included the ceremonial laws of Moses that pointed to Jesus which were shadows of things to come. It is not referring to God's Law which have never been shadows and are forever (see Colosians 2:14;17; Hebrews 8:1-5; 6-13; Hebrews 10:1-19; Hebrews chapters 9; 10; John 1:29; 1Cor 5:6-7; Rom 2:28-29; Ecc 3:14).

The Messiah taught from the law, to obey Deuteronomy 6:4-5 and Leviticus 19:18 (you can't do these while also ignoring the rest of God's commands). These 2 commands are the foundation of the Torah & Prophets; all the commands hang on them Matthew 22:34-40

Yes I agree:oldthumbsup: These are talking about God's Law aka the 10 commandments not the ceremonial laws of Moses that were shadows pointing to Jesus.

If the law of God, aka the law of Moses was "nailed to the cross" then why would he even be teaching stuff from the law of God (Genesis-Deuteronomy)?

The ceremonial laws of Moses are not God's 10 commandments aka the Law of God. The ceremonial laws of Moses were a shadow of things to come we are in the New Covenant now. See above...

If the law that he was teaching from is gone, then those commands are no longer valid, as they come from the law of Moses/law of God

You seem to be mixed up and do not know the difference between the New Covenant and the Old covenant and the ceremonial laws of Moses which were shadows pointing to Jesus and God's Laws (aka 10 commandments) which are forever (Ecc 3:14). Once again..

We are in the New Covenant now not the Old.

Hebrews 8:13,
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decays and waxes old is ready to vanish away.

Please also see see Colosians 2:14;17; Hebrews 8:1-5; 6-13; Hebrews 10:1-19; Hebrews chapters 9; 10; John 1:29; 1Cor 5:6-7; Rom 2:28-29).

In Christ Always!
 
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Bob S

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The 10 commandments were not the work of man they were the work of God himself, written by God with His own finger on two tables of stone. Spoken by God himself to His people and held separate from the ceremonial laws of Moses because they were the work of God himself.
That is an absolute untruth LGW. I do not trust your posts and this statement is absurd. All of Torah was the work of God. God wrote some and Moses finished God's word by dictating it. You are trying to make a distinction to bolster your false teaching of Col2. Reader beware! Paul even writes that the 10 commandments are the ministry of death. Read it for yourselves. 2Cor3:7-11
 
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LoveGodsWord

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That is an absolute untruth LGW. I do not trust your posts and this statement is absurd. All of Torah was the work of God. God wrote some and Moses finished God's word by dictating it. You are trying to make a distinction to bolster your false teaching of Col2. Reader beware! Paul even writes that the 10 commandments are the ministry of death. Read it for yourselves. 2Cor3:7-11

Really? So according you God's Law (the 10 commandments) are the work of man when God's Word says God made them without man? This is what God's Word says not me. God's Law is in reference to His Work. The 10 commandments were not the work of man they were only the work of God himself, written by God with His own finger on two tables of stone. Spoken by God himself to His people and held separate from the ceremonial laws of Moses because they were the work of God himself. Obviously the 10 commandments being the work of God himself written on tables of stone and spoken by God is different to the laws of Moses that where written in a book and kept separate from God's Law (Exodus 20:1-17; Exodus 31:18; Exodus 31:18; 32:16; Deuteronomy 10:5; 31:25; Ecc 3:14).

Where are your scriptures?

<Staff edit>

In Christ Always!
 
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bugkiller

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The law of Moses, also called the law of God (Nehemiah 8:18) was not nailed to the cross. Our death penalty is what was nailed to the cross. Christ being the fulfillment or revelation of God's holy days does not mean that they are gone and no longer observed. We can fully observe them now in light of the full revelation, through Messiah, of God's holy days in Leviticus 23
Since when is written ordinances, death penalty? Col 2:14
The Messiah taught from the law, to obey Deuteronomy 6:4-5 and Leviticus 19:18 (you can't do these while also ignoring the rest of God's commands). These 2 commands are the foundation of the Torah & Prophets; all the commands hang on them Matthew 22:34-40
Teaching from the law is much different than teaching the law or requiring its observance.
If the law of God, aka the law of Moses was "nailed to the cross" then why would he even be teaching stuff from the law of God(Genesis-Deuteronomy)?
That was the current Scripture of the Jews. Yes many in fact most Jews do not recognize the NT as Scripture. I think some people calling themselves chose to accept only parts of the NT making it nothing more than a quote source rather than believing it in totality.
If the law that he was teaching from is gone, then those commands are no longer valid, as they come from the law of Moses/law of God
Nothing from the OT is from Jesus.

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bugkiller

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That is an absolute untruth LGW. I do not trust your posts and this statement is absurd. All of Torah was the work of God. God wrote some and Moses finished God's word by dictating it. You are trying to make a distinction to bolster your false teaching of Col2. Reader beware! Paul even writes that the 10 commandments are the ministry of death. Read it for yourselves. 2Cor3:7-11
Why would anyone trust his posts? If what he posted the levitical priesthood is a creation of Moses. Without the levitical priesthood the law can not operate.

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bugkiller

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Really? So according you God's Law (the 10 commandments) are the work of man when God's Word says God made them without man? This is what God's Word says not me. God's Law is in reference to His Work. The 10 commandments were not the work of man they were only the work of God himself, written by God with His own finger on two tables of stone. Spoken by God himself to His people and held separate from the ceremonial laws of Moses because they were the work of God himself. Obviously the 10 commandments being the work of God himself written on tables of stone and spoken by God is different to the laws of Moses that where written in a book and kept separate from God's Law (Exodus 20:1-17; Exodus 31:18; Exodus 31:18; 32:16; Deuteronomy 10:5; 31:25; Ecc 3:14).

Where are your scriptures?

If you can't show them then for the claims you make then why do you not believe God's Word? As for me I must follow the Word of God because I love Jesus. Do you love Jesus Bob?

In Christ Always!
Is the levitical priesthood a creation of Moses? Is the Tabernacle a creation of man or ordered by God? What about the sacrificial system to atone for sin? Yeppers everything except the 10 Cs are the sole creation of Moses. ;)

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bugkiller

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The law is for the wicked, not the Christian. the christian is righteous just like Abraham and kind David, yet they sinned. So what righteousness did they have? It can't be righteousness of the law. This law came through the hands of a murder.
Correct the law is for the wicked -

8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; I Tim 1

To say the law is for the righteous is using it unlawfully.

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bugkiller

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I agree. The certificate of death is what was nailed to the cross. That is what Colossians 2:14 is talking about: our death sentence
When is a penalty an ordinance. If a penalty is against us so is whatever authorized the penalty which would be a written ordinance. The execution of the ordinance's penalty is not an ordinance.

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bugkiller

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Lol. Bob S has already stated the law exist's to make us conscious of sin.
Righteousness of observing the law can only exist if the penalty for transgression exists. The Christian has a saviour from their sin/ transgression of the law. Christ paid the believers penalty
Without the penalty of sin in place, the ministry of death and condemnation is abolished. For the penalty of sin is death. No penalty, no ministration of death and condemnation. No righteousness of observing the law.
Simple, even a child could understand it
No because redemption was promised in the Garden. The law came much later, in fact 430 years after Abraham and because of sin.

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bugkiller

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Well if the law got abolished you CANNOT be conscious of sin

Through the law we become conscious of sin rom3:20

Paul used present, not past tense.

If you stole, committed adultery, bore false witness, coveted you must be conscious you commit sin.

This is ridiculous
Did someone say the law was annihilated?

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LoveGodsWord

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Is the levitical priesthood a creation of Moses? Is the Tabernacle a creation of man or ordered by God? What about the sacrificial system to atone for sin? Yeppers everything except the 10 Cs are the sole creation of Moses. ;) bugkiller

Friend,
Our opinions do not mean anything with God. Only God's Word is important. I have never said the ceremonial laws of Moses were not inspired by God. Only that they were written by Moses and part of the Old Covenant. They are not Gods Law written by God (aka 10 commandments) that were the work of God himself that are forever (Ecc 3:14). It was the ceremonial laws of Moses that were nailed to the cross along with our sins because Jesus is the true Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world and this is what the ceremonial laws of Moses all pointed to. (Colosians 2:14;17; Hebrews 8:1-5; 6-13; Hebrews 10:1-19; Hebrews chapters 9; 10; John 1:29; 1Cor 5:6-7; Rom 2:28-29). God''s Law however (10 commandments are forever. This includes the 7th day Sabbath which is one of the 10 (Ex 20:1-17; James 2:8-12)
 
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bugkiller

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Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to abolish the law
Did you miss -

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. LK 24

or -

11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood. Heb 7

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bugkiller

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Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to abolish the law
Did you miss -

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. LK 24

or -

11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood. Heb 7

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bugkiller

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Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to abolish the law
Did you miss -

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. LK 24

or -

11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood. Heb 7

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bugkiller

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The law of sin and death got abolished. The ministration of death and condemnation got abolished. It requires the penalty for sin to be in place. Christ died to pay the believers penalty. He did not die to remove what was written in the moral law.
Proven by the fact, if you transgress, nine of the TC as written you will be conscious you sin by doing so
What administers death?

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bugkiller

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I completely agree that we are under the New Covenant, but we are nevertheless still under the same God, whose holiness is eternal, which means that the way to act in accordance with His holiness is also eternal. The ceremonial laws are essentially God's instructions for how to act in accordance with His holiness, so the only way for them to be done away with is for God's holiness to be first done away with. In Deuteronomy 13:4-5, the instructions that God gave to Israel for how to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for Him is if they teach against obeying what God had commande them, even if they perform signs and wonders, so if Jesus did away with ceremonial laws, then Jews who are following God's instruction are correct in rejecting him as their Messiah, and Christians who teach what Jesus did that are one of the biggest reasons why Jews have rejected Jesus as their Messiah.
Did Jeremiah say anything about God's holiness in 31?
A relationship with Jesus is the goal of obeying the Law for righteousness for everyone who has faith (Romans 10:4), so all of it points towards Jesus, and that is why the Law was correctly obeyed in the OT, and why we should continue to obey them in the NT. To fulfill the law means to cause God's will as made known in the Law to be obeyed as it should be, and so Christ fulfilled the Law six times in Matthew 5 by teaching how to correctly obey it. In Galatians 5:14, it says that loving your neighbor fulfills the entire Law, so everyone since Moses who has loved their neighbor has fulfilled the entire Law, which means that it does not refer to something unique that Jesus did, but to obeying it as it should be, as is reflected in other Jewish literature. In Galatians 6:2, it says that bearing one another's burdens fulfills the Law of Christ, which again does not refer to doing away with it, but to obeying it as it should be. In Romans 15:18-19, it says that Paul fulfilled the Gospel, which doesn't mean he did away with it, but rather it means that he caused the Gentiles to be obedient to it in word and in deed as it should be.
No because Jesus is the end of the law for righteousness. Jesus is not the beginning or continuance of the law.
You keep bringing up Colossians 2:14-17 as though it supports your position, but you're not really interacting with what I've said about it. The Colossians were keeping God's holy days in obedience to God's commands and they were being judged by those promoting human precepts and teachings, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body (Colossians 2:20-23), so Paul was writing the Colossians to encourage them not to let any man judge them for obeying what God has commanded. It is not clear to me how you can say that you absolutely agree with that crosses were not used as a means of disposing of the laws and that what was written on crosses were not the laws themselves, but the violations of the law, and then turn around and say that the cross was used as a means of disposing of ceremonial laws themselves. The Bible says nothing about the cross doing away with God's holiness or the way to act in accordance with it. There is no law whatsoever that was done away with on the cross because Christ did not give himself to free us from the Law, but to pay our penalty for transgressing to the Law and to free us from living in transgression of it (Titus 2:14). In John 1:29, it does not say that he came to take away the Law, but to take away our transgressions of it. In 1 Corinthians 5:6-7, it does not say that we are free to keep the old yeast, but that we must get rid of it. In Romans 2:26-29, it says that the way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to the Mosaic Law and that Gentiles who obey the Law will condemn Jews who break the Law.
Interacting with Col 2 or taking your view of it?
 
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