If Reincarnation is true then Jesus was sacrificed for no good

cloudyday2 · Sep 4, 2017

Robban said:
Not all by a long shot will or need be reincarnated, it is about the soul having to come back into a beforehand prepared body.
For a purpose.

What percentage are reincarnated? Is it a very rare thing or somewhat common?

Robban · Sep 4, 2017

cloudyday2 said:
What percentage are reincarnated? Is it a very rare thing or somewhat common?

What percentage I cannot say, it is decreed from the heavens,
Cannot say how common either, the soul itself has no remberence of before.

Just as when we are born into this world we remember nothing of before.

One story goes like this,
Just before a Jewish soul comes into this world,
it knows Torah fully, then just before being born an angel smacks it on the mouth
so it forgets.

Another Lazarus · Sep 4, 2017

ananda said:
I sought the biblical god for 30 something years; I can't say he ever revealed himself to me during that time.

You cannot expect God to reveal Himself directly to you because nobody can see God alive, he will perish by His Mighty.
Exodus 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

Therefore God has spoken through the prophets and Bible.

Noxot · Sep 4, 2017

ananda said:
I have no reason to go back in time to see a Buddha.

How so? The foundation of Buddhism is completely different from Christianity's.

Buddhism is based primarily on the Buddhist Teachings which can be verified by the disciple's own phenomenological experiences in the here-and-now. Christianity is based primarily on faith in an alleged historical person and his alleged acts, which cannot be verified by the disciple in the here-and-now.

maybe the common understanding of christianity is like what you say it is but in reality there is plenty of other ways to see it and plenty of things you could attempt in it to see if it worked or not, but I think you would be fine on the path you are already on. you said you had been at it for 30 years so something was obviously not going well.

but it is weird that you would have done it for 30 years and not known the depths of it. I bet lots of christians are like that. it must be a biological thing. some people do what they do because it happened to be what was set before them or what snared them.

Rajni · Sep 4, 2017

Another Lazarus said:
God doesnt reveal Himself to mankind that dont seek Him in humility.

Paul might have a different take on that.

In addition, we have the following:

Isaiah 65:1
"I permitted Myself to be sought by those who did not ask for Me; I permitted Myself to be found by those who did not seek Me. I said, 'Here am I, here am I,' To a nation which did not call on My name.

Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.

Noxot · Sep 4, 2017

RayJeena said:
Paul might have a different take on that.

In addition, we have the following:

Isaiah 65:1
"I permitted Myself to be sought by those who did not ask for Me; I permitted Myself to be found by those who did not seek Me. I said, 'Here am I, here am I,' To a nation which did not call on My name.

Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.

it implies both a knowing and a not knowing. there is no contradiction, only expansion after expansion after expansion. how long does it take to properly understand an infinite being?

miknik5 · Sep 4, 2017

ananda said:
I've heard no witnesses.

Yes you have
Many times

miknik5 · Sep 4, 2017

Noxot said:
why can't you? is it because your empiricism is just sensual experience? lol sorry could not resist.

Yes, that's why sir.
Because my flesh also was made aware of the TRUTH when HE opened the eyes and ears (of my heart) to THE TRUTH...

That is why.

Because
John 3:8 and 1John 2:27 are TRUTH...

The hit over the head/on the road to damascus event which Paul experienced?

I also have experienced.

Do I rely on my flesh anymore?

Nope.

That was a one time/instant conversion.
Now I walk by FAITH

And not by sight.

miknik5 · Sep 4, 2017

ananda said:
I sought the biblical god for 30 something years; I can't say he ever revealed himself to me during that time.

You are like Thomas.
Blessed are those who have not seen and believe.

miknik5 · Sep 4, 2017

Noxot said:
why can't you? is it because your empiricism is just sensual experience? lol sorry could not resist.

Sorry, Noxot...I initially thought your post was to me.

miknik5 · Sep 4, 2017

ananda said:
Sadly, I don't know who revealed the gospel, nor could I verify its claims for myself.

You know THE GOSPEL..

Sadly, you don't believe it because you base validation of its claims on your lower carnal senses.

miknik5 · Sep 4, 2017

Robban said:
Not all by a long shot will or need be reincarnated, it is about the soul having to come back into a beforehand prepared body.
For a purpose.

Tanach does not shout it out but there are allusions to it.

Great works of literature should not be read,
they should be studied.

Ye seek scripture?

John 5

miknik5 · Sep 4, 2017

cloudyday2 said:
It seems to me that the Jews must not have believed in reincarnation, because the Transfiguration in the Gospels highlights Moses and Elijah (and Jesus). Elijah rode a chariot to heaven instead of dying, and apparently there is a tradition in Judaism that Elijah will return. I have read that the odd story of God burying Moses is actually designed to counter a less-orthodox belief that Moses ascended to heaven, so that would explain his presence at the Transfiguration. Jesus was probably seen as another figure who ascended to heaven - Enoch the Son of Man.

If the early Christian Jews had believed in reincarnation, why would the Transfiguration story highlight these three figures that ascended to heaven instead of dying? What's the big deal if every soul goes to heaven and later returns? ... That's just my opinion of course.

No. Your opinion is wrong.

Elijah and Moses are Elijah and Moses.

They are not someone else and they have not borrowed someone else's spirit.

GOD does not recycle souls.
All souls are HIS...

Steve Petersen · Sep 4, 2017

If X is true then Y can't be true. This assumes that it is only possible for X OR Y to be true, that the propositions are mutually exclusive. It neglects the possibility that NEITHER is true. But since you have painted yourself into the position the Y is MUST be true, X CANNOT be true. Can't you see how you have stacked the argument?

miknik5 · Sep 4, 2017

Please reread the story of Elijah and the interaction between Elijah and Elisha before and after Elijah was "taken up"...

It's a picture of CHRIST.

GOD knows our limited humanity.
HE knows we need lower visible signs to understand the HIGHER and INVISIBLE truths which can only be known by and through HIS SPIRIT.

And HE graciously throughout HIS WRITTEN WORD...hid HIS SON in HIS WORD
So that when the fullness of time would come, when the BODY which HE had prepared before the foundation before the world ever was, might come forth, we would look back and bring to remembrance (and understanding) that ALL ALONG...GOD spoke of and pointed us to HIS SON.

THE TESTIMONY of JESUS

IS

THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY

Every word of scripture
Every priest, prophet, judge, king

Were shadows pointing to all the REALITIES of THE TRUTH found in HIS SON.

miknik5 · Sep 4, 2017

cloudyday2 said:
What percentage are reincarnated? Is it a very rare thing or somewhat common?

None

miknik5 · Sep 4, 2017

Robban said:
What percentage I cannot say, it is decreed from the heavens,
Cannot say how common either, the soul itself has no remberence of before.

Just as when we are born into this world we remember nothing of before.

One story goes like this,
Just before a Jewish soul comes into this world,
it knows Torah fully, then just before being born an angel smacks it on the mouth
so it forgets.

yes, because children are fresh from HIS PRESENCE and haven't weathered the storms and interferences of this life which press on children to move further from the TRUTH rather than remaining in it...

But a child is NOT a reincarnated soul.

The last will be first and the first will be last
Just as the parable of the workers in the vineyard who were called into HIS vineyard are told to "work" the ones who come in at the last hour, who worked for the salvation of the souls of his brothers/sisters...will be first.

Because they are fresh and pure having just come into HIS PRESENCE
While those who came in at the early hours weathered the storms of life, and are at the end of the procession looking weatherworn...will be last.

And HE is right and just that those who are babes should be first.

The thief on the cross?

He was better than any who heard the GOSPEL preached who have to weather the storms and trials of this life which cause deception and try to deter us from following on THE NARROW PATH which leads to LIFE.

HE doesn't change.
We do.

And the GOSPEL is preached now to the living.
Not to the dead...

miknik5 · Sep 4, 2017

Steve Petersen said:
If X is true then Y can't be true. This assumes that it is only possible for X OR Y to be true, that the propositions are mutually exclusive. It neglects the possibility that NEITHER is true. But since you have painted yourself into the position the Y is MUST be true, X CANNOT be true. Can't you see how you have stacked the argument?

No I don't
When GOD reveals HIMSELF.
it will be ONE TRUTH and ONE TESTIMONY only...

Regardless of what a man wants to reason by the standards of the world to be "truths"

Steve Petersen · Sep 4, 2017

miknik5 said:
No I don't
When GOD reveals HIMSELF.
it will be ONE TRUTH and ONE TESTIMONY only...

Regardless of what a man wants to reason by the standards of the world to be "truths"

What if that revealed truth is different than what you believe it is? I'll wager that isn't even a possibility for you is it?

Robban · Sep 4, 2017

miknik5 said:
yes, because children are fresh from HIS PRESENCE and haven't weathered the storms and interferences of this life which press on children to move further from the TRUTH rather than remaining in it...

But a child is NOT a reincarnated soul.

The last will be first and the first will be last
Just as the parable of the workers in the vineyard who were called into HIS vineyard are told to "work" the ones who come in at the last hour, who worked for the salvation of the souls of his brothers/sisters...will be first.

Because they are fresh and pure having just come into HIS PRESENCE
While those who came in at the early hours weathered the storms of life, and are at the end of the procession looking weatherworn...will be last.

And HE is right and just that those who are babes should be first.

The thief on the cross?

He was better than any who heard the GOSPEL preached who have to weather the storms and trials of this life which cause deception and try to deter us from following on THE NARROW PATH which leads to LIFE.

HE doesn't change.
We do.

And the GOSPEL is preached now to the living.
Not to the dead...

Pay attention,
I did not say a child is a reincarnated soul.

If Reincarnation is true then Jesus was sacrificed for no good

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