Clean and Un-clean Food

CherubRam · Sep 3, 2017

gadar perets said:
Leviticus 11:24-25

You are correct. I would think it would be a longer time frame.

Is there any penalty for eating forbidden meat?

Lulav · Sep 4, 2017

I personally think the kashrut laws were for before Messiah came.

I also believe that all of G-ds creations were created clean.

Heber Book List · Sep 4, 2017

gadar perets said:
So you are saying Abel had no right to eat or not eat the sacrifice he offered? It was his choice? Did he have a choice of offering YHWH a pig?

Adam's family did not need to know about clean and unclean "food" because meat was not given to eat until after the flood. However, I believe they were instructed about clean and unclean "sacrifices". That is why Abel offered a lamb and why Noach already knew about the distinction between clean and unclean.

You have not addressed Isaiah 66:15-17. Please do so.

Good morning, want do you want me to say about Isaiah - it is self evident, but is way ahead of the times we are debating.

Re your first comment, I don't know, but there seems to be a strong case for the view that there were few hard and fast rules, or was Cain a total idiot to not obtain, and bring before G_d, an animal? I assume that for him, an offering from the field, his livelihood, was justifiable, if he had not been told specifically what to sacrifice.

Re your second comment -we do not agree on that area - we are beginning to go round in circles

CherubRam · Sep 4, 2017

Is there any penalty for eating forbidden meat?

gadar perets · Sep 4, 2017

CherubRam said:
You are correct. I would think it would be a longer time frame.

Is there any penalty for eating forbidden meat?

The wages of sin is death, but the gift of Elohim is eternal life through Messiah Yeshua our Master. However, just because we can be forgiven through Yeshua doesn't mean we are free to continue in sin. We are called to turn away from sin in repentance and sin no more.

gadar perets · Sep 4, 2017

Heber Book List said:
Good morning, want do you want me to say about Isaiah - it is self evident, but is way ahead of the times we are debating.

Are you saying Isaiah 66:15-17 was already fulfilled or that it is way in our future? If it is an end-time prophecy, then it is very relevant to our discussion.

Re your first comment, I don't know, but there seems to be a strong case for the view that there were few hard and fast rules, or was Cain a total idiot to not obtain, and bring before G_d, an animal? I assume that for him, an offering from the field, his livelihood, was justifiable, if he had not been told specifically what to sacrifice.

I did not say Cain had to offer an animal. I said Abel knew to offer a clean animal.

Heber Book List · Sep 4, 2017

CherubRam said:
You are correct. I would think it would be a longer time frame.

Is there any penalty for eating forbidden meat?

I think part of the answer to that question is: whether a person knows that they must not? If you know you must not, then you must also know that you are sinning by doing so, and sincere repentance is required of you.

If someone genuinely doesn't know, then provision is made by the grace that came through Yeshua as he lay down his life. However, and it is a BIG however - even if you genuinely didn't know you were committing a sin, when it is made known to you, or you come to realise that it was sin (whatever the actual sin - not just what you are eating), it must then be repented of without delay. Grace doesn't cover known sins - only the genuinely unknown, or unrealised, sins.

Aseyesee · Sep 4, 2017

gadar perets said:
At the time Noah loaded the ark with food, the only food for both man and animals were plants.
in
Animal flesh was not given as food until they left the ark.

Yes, we could assume that, but what about those animals that have gestation period longer than one year which is about how long Noah was on the ark? Elephants, for example, carry their young for almost two years before they are born. Had Noah eaten one elephant upon exiting the ark, we would have no elephants today.

Also, I doubt YHWH called full grown animals to board the ark because of space limitation. One full grown elephant or dinosaur, for example, would take up an awful lot of room. Enough food was taken for the animals on the ark, not for all the animals that might be born on the ark. Also, t takes a male elephant, for example, at least ten years to start producing sperm.

It is obvious that seven pairs of clean animals were taken for sacrificing and for eating, but only two of each unclean animal because they were neither sacrificed, nor eaten.

A lot of times assumptions just lead to more assumptions, which end up as excuses to justify a position held that is not clearly laid out in scripture.

Paul said the law is spiritual, which basically for us means it's an internal truth that builds upon itself in the light of the purpose of God that was before the world was.

Aseyesee · Sep 4, 2017

Heber Book List said:
I think part of the answer to that question is: whether a person knows that they must not? If you know you must not, then you must also know that you are sinning by doing so, and sincere repentance is required of you.

If someone genuinely doesn't know, then provision is made by the grace that came through Yeshua as he lay down his life. However, and it is a BIG however - even if you genuinely didn't know you were committing a sin, when it is made known to you, or you come to realise that it was sin (whatever the actual sin - not just what you are eating), it must then be repented of without delay. Grace doesn't cover known sins - only the genuinely unknown, or unrealised, sins.

This would make the sacrifice of God not a once and for all.

Heber Book List · Sep 4, 2017

gadar perets said:
Are you saying Isaiah 66:15-17 was already fulfilled or that it is way in our future? If it is an end-time prophecy, then it is very relevant to our discussion.

I did not say Cain had to offer an animal. I said Abel knew to offer a clean animal.

Sorry, I thought I was clear on both issues:

Isaiah was writing long after Noach, not at, or before his times, so it is not relevant to our time frame.

You didn't. I was passing the comment that Cain must have been really stupid to NOT obtain an animal for G_d - presumably he knew from the same source as Abel, what was required.

Heber Book List · Sep 4, 2017

Aseyesee said:
This would make the sacrifice of God not a once and for all.

A sacrifice OF G_d? I take it you do not mean that G_d was sacrificed?

This subject is moving away from the OP of this thread - I'll start another thread for it.

Aseyesee · Sep 4, 2017

Heber Book List said:
A sacrifice OF G_d? I take it you do not mean that G_d was sacrificed?

This subject is moving away from the OP of this thread - I'll start another thread for it.

The whole focus of scripture is a son by whom a father is revealed by, by the father revealing himself in him. So to me, clean and unclean, and why two become (a verse or two later) a seven and two, as what goes into the ark become more clearly defined are to this same one end.

gadar perets · Sep 4, 2017

Aseyesee said:
The whole focus of scripture is a son by whom a father is revealed by, by the father revealing himself in him. So to me, clean and unclean, and why two become (a verse or two later) a seven and two, as what goes into the ark become more clearly defined are to this same one end.

Aseyesee · Sep 4, 2017

gadar perets said:

One way God speaks to us is in picture form, a tree, a son, a mountains, a land that you are no longer a strange in, or a land that would spew you out much like the end of not being hot or cold.

gadar perets · Sep 4, 2017

Aseyesee said:
One way God speaks to us is in picture form, a tree, a son, a mountains, a land that you are no longer a strange in, or a land that would spew you out much like the end of not being hot or cold.

And, so ...? Please be explicit in what your point is.

visionary · Sep 4, 2017

CherubRam said:
Is there any penalty for eating forbidden meat?

abomination... end result...
Isaiah 66:17
They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord.

CherubRam · Sep 4, 2017

gadar perets said:
Are you saying Isaiah 66:15-17 was already fulfilled or that it is way in our future? If it is an end-time prophecy, then it is very relevant to our discussion.

If I remember correctly, Isaiah 66 was a late addition to Isaiah. Some late chapters were added to the bible by the Hellenistic Jews.

Jeremiah 8:8
“‘How can you say, “We are wise, for we have the law of the Lord,” when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?

CherubRam · Sep 4, 2017

Three things the Jews did to the scriptures, they altered parts that mention the Messiah, they added the festivals to the last days, they placed themselves in charge of everything.

CherubRam · Sep 4, 2017

visionary said:
abomination... end result...
Isaiah 66:17
They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord.

Yes, but that verse contradicts other parts of the bible.
Matthew 15
10 Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen and understand. 11 What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.

gadar perets · Sep 4, 2017

CherubRam said:
If I remember correctly, Isaiah 66 was a late addition to Isaiah. Some late chapters were added to the bible by the Hellenistic Jews.

Jeremiah 8:8
“‘How can you say, “We are wise, for we have the law of the Lord,” when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?

You can throw the chapter out if you want, but I certainly won't. It is incredibly rich in truth and is undoubtedly inspired and not the mere words of men.

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