Genuine Question

Sidl02 said:

So here's a question for you. It's not meant to cause offence and it's something I would appreciate a well thought out response too.

I'm sure you've been faced with this scenario on many occasions when challenged about your faith. Let me just make one thing clear, I'm an atheist. Having said that, I respect anyone's beliefs and if it draws comfort for those that believe then I'm pleased for them.

But here's my question. So my 30 year old friend...a beautiful, intelligent, dignified, mother to a 10 year old girl and everything that's right about a human being, is dying of cancer. She's battled for 7 years but the end is near and she has a maximum of 6 months to live. She has struggled, suffered (along with her daughter and wonderful mother) throughout this dreadful disease. She has been dignified and stoic, she even put herself through university and gained a 1st despite her condition and treament.

Now what possible explanation could your faith provide me with to justify how cruel and unfair this is? When there are peadophiles and murderers who get to carry out their lives in full. Why is she made to suffer a long, drawn out and painful death? What possible explanation can you offer to her daughter to have to witness such a dreadful and traumatic end to her mothers life?? Something she will spend the rest of her life trying to come to terms with?

And please, don't say that 'god works in mysterious ways'. That's a cop out. Or he 'takes the good ones for a reason'. Well if that's the case then why not just take them? Why let her and her family go through the worst pain and unimaginable suffering? It's a fair question and in respect to her, it warrants a justifiable explanation.
I often hear 'pray for her'. Pray for her???? What am I praying for exactly??? To whom am I begging for leniency when it comes to her drawn out and torturous death??? 'Please god would you be so kind as to not let this beautiful human being lose her life and her body be ravaged by a disease that will slowly and painfully kill her for all her loved ones to witness and that every night she goes to bed with the only hope that it takes her quickly. I'd be ever so grateful to you'. Seriously??

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Welcome to CF.

It seems to me that the correct answer will not be satisfying to you. But, you might try and read the following book:

"Surprised by Suffering: The Role of Pain and Death in The Christian Life" by R.C. Sproul

"And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose." ~ Romans 8:28

Sidl02 said:

So here's a question for you. It's not meant to cause offence and it's something I would appreciate a well thought out response too.

I'm sure you've been faced with this scenario on many occasions when challenged about your faith. Let me just make one thing clear, I'm an atheist. Having said that, I respect anyone's beliefs and if it draws comfort for those that believe then I'm pleased for them.

But here's my question. So my 30 year old friend...a beautiful, intelligent, dignified, mother to a 10 year old girl and everything that's right about a human being, is dying of cancer. She's battled for 7 years but the end is near and she has a maximum of 6 months to live. She has struggled, suffered (along with her daughter and wonderful mother) throughout this dreadful disease. She has been dignified and stoic, she even put herself through university and gained a 1st despite her condition and treament.

Now what possible explanation could your faith provide me with to justify how cruel and unfair this is? When there are peadophiles and murderers who get to carry out their lives in full. Why is she made to suffer a long, drawn out and painful death? What possible explanation can you offer to her daughter to have to witness such a dreadful and traumatic end to her mothers life?? Something she will spend the rest of her life trying to come to terms with?

And please, don't say that 'god works in mysterious ways'. That's a cop out. Or he 'takes the good ones for a reason'. Well if that's the case then why not just take them? Why let her and her family go through the worst pain and unimaginable suffering? It's a fair question and in respect to her, it warrants a justifiable explanation.
I often hear 'pray for her'. Pray for her???? What am I praying for exactly??? To whom am I begging for leniency when it comes to her drawn out and torturous death??? 'Please god would you be so kind as to not let this beautiful human being lose her life and her body be ravaged by a disease that will slowly and painfully kill her for all her loved ones to witness and that every night she goes to bed with the only hope that it takes her quickly. I'd be ever so grateful to you'. Seriously??

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I get the feeling she is bound for Heaven. People who suffer like that on Earth. Eternal life is a long time and I pray that she will be united with God. Prayers.

I'm not sure that We can give you an answer you would accept. The bottom line is that this is not the world God intended. Sometimes he acts to mitigate the evil, pain and suffering and sometimes He does not. I do not know why that is nor,I think, does anyone else.
On the other hand does your lack of faith or belief in God offer her even the hope or comfort of a life to come? It seems to me that neither faith nor non-faith have a satisfactory answer. But faith offers hope; No-faith can not even do that
God Bless
Jax

Sidl02 said:

So here's a question for you. It's not meant to cause offense and it's something I would appreciate a well thought out response too.

I'm sure you've been faced with this scenario on many occasions when challenged about your faith. Let me just make one thing clear, I'm an atheist. Having said that, I respect anyone's beliefs and if it draws comfort for those that believe then I'm pleased for them.

But here's my question. So my 30-year-old friend...a beautiful, intelligent, dignified, mother to a 10-year-old girl and everything that's right about a human being, is dying of cancer. She's battled for 7 years but the end is near and she has a maximum of 6 months to live. She has struggled, suffered (along with her daughter and wonderful mother) throughout this dreadful disease. She has been dignified and stoic, she even put herself through university and gained a 1st despite her condition and treatment.

Now, what possible explanation could your faith provide me with to justify how cruel and unfair this is? When there are pedophiles and murderers who get to carry out their lives in full. Why is she made to suffer a long, drawn out and painful death? What possible explanation can you offer to her daughter to have to witness such a dreadful and traumatic end to her mother's life?? Something she will spend the rest of her life trying to come to terms with?

And please, don't say that 'god works in mysterious ways'. That's a cop out. Or he 'takes the good ones for a reason'. Well if that's the case then why not just take them? Why let her and her family go through the worst pain and unimaginable suffering? It's a fair question and in respect to her, it warrants a justifiable explanation.
I often hear 'pray for her'. Pray for her???? What am I praying for exactly??? To whom am I begging for leniency when it comes to her drawn out and torturous death??? 'Please god would you be so kind as to not let this beautiful human being lose her life and her body being ravaged by a disease that will slowly and painfully kill her for all her loved ones to witness and that every night she goes to bed with the only hope that it takes her quickly. I'd be ever so grateful to you'. Seriously??

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First, let me express how sorry I am that this is happening.

Also, I have wondered the same thing for a very similar reason. 14 years ago a childhood friend of mine, who had been born with and battled significant health problems throughout his life, died suddenly of an illness he could not fight off. Why then had this little boy, this poster-child of innocence, this shining example of gentleness, kindness, maturity, courage, lose after having suffered so, for so long?

The answer that at last came to me after years of pondering, praying, and studying possible answers to the question is that he (and I suspect your friend) was molded by the struggles he endured, he was who he was, because of having gone through all that he had, and that person that he was, was who he was meant to be, who he needed to be in order to touch and influence the people he met in the way they were meant to be touched, just as our friends were molded by their struggles those around them were molded by watching them. Thus, bringing all even tangencialy involved just a bit closer to being who we are meant to be.

I know you're too upset about this to understand what you're reading or consider it seriously. I've been there as I explained in my comment above. I've been you. I've watched a friend who I admired as a wonderful example of everything that is right and good in the world and who I loved as a brother fight for his life against a potentially fatal illness and die. So believe me I do understand.

I don't think you'll accept this answer but I'm still going to give you what I know to be the truth. Every single person on the planet plays some role, however small, in a plan so big and complex we can't begin to see the whole picture. When their role is complete, God removes them from our fallen messed up world into a future of eternal peace. Sometimes that role includes suffering, and often when it does the source of that suffering is what God uses to take them home. Yes, it sucks for the people left behind, yes when it is slow and painful it is difficult to watch. But we are forever changed by the people around us, shaped by watching others we care about deal with pain and hardship. But that is how God works, he uses us to shape each other and when the task we are made for is complete He takes us home.

Tldr version... why do bad things happen to good people?

Mark 10:18 - "No one is good - except God alone"

Sidl02 said:

As much as I appreciate and value your responses I feel the usual non commital standard response has been given. You don't feel you can give me an answer I would accept? Why would I not accept a genuine and plausible answer? And why do you not know why god sometimes mitigates evil and sometimes not. If you know he does then why do you not understand why? Surely he has been able to explain why? He's done some rather miraculous things according to the bible so why can't he provide you with an answer to his inability to mitigate evil whenever it arises? Why can't he mitigate the evil that is happening to my beautiful and kind friend? To say sometimes he does and sometimes he doesn't is representative of the lack of a definite answer to something quite simple that is consistently proferred up by way of responding to something you cannot justify. Along the lines of 'god works in mysterious ways'. What mysterious ways are those exactly?? Letting children and young people die a slow and torturous death from cancer? He can put two of every species in a boat but he can't mitigate the evil of a disease slowly killing my friend and her 11 year old daughter having to watch. Seriously?
She doesn't want prayers. She wants to live to watch her daughter grow up. Watch her graduate, get married, become a grandparent. With all due respect your prayers to somebody who has failed to mitigate this particular evil is unwanted and frankly insulting

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Your reaction to our posts upholds our concern. You seek some pat simplistic answer that does not exist. But I notice you did not address my question. What can your atheism offer her? Can you offer her any hope? Any comfort? Any thing beyond a short painful, pointless life?
Lets hear your answers if you have any.
God Bless
Jax

I don't think this is a time for a debate. I've been in the same headspace as the op and a very similar situation. Desperate for answers but too emotionally raw to look the truth in the face.

It intrigues me that an "atheist" would go out of his way to post a question like this on a Christian forum, so I suspect that the question says more about you than it does about the challenge you've thrown down for Christians to give you a satisfactory answer. Now, an agnostic trying to make sense of a situation like this, would be highly likely to bring his struggle onto this kind of forum, but an atheist? No. Atheists are absolutely certain that there is no God, so the question posed could simply be interpreted as a provocative bit of trolling. If not, this might be more about your own spiritual struggles than you want us to think.

You are offering a moral equivalence argument in your use of paedophiles and murderers as a comparison for your noble friend. These comparisons have no role to play in the question of whether God exists or not. As a Christian I have no duty to explain to an atheist why these kind of injustices happen. An agnostic might be open to the explanations offered, but an atheist? Why waste my energy?

It might be, however, that in calling yourself an atheist you mislabel yourself. You are, after all, a seeker after truth, or you wouldn't be asking this great moral question (unless of course, you are a troll, in which case I won't be satisfying you with an explanation you have no intention of hearing). If you are genuinely wrestling with this moral dilemma and would genuinely wish to understand the mystery of God's relationship with mankind, you might open your mind by reading the Bible from the beginning. If not, there is a very enlightening book called "Message of the Living God" by Peter Lewis,which I dare you to get hold of and read.
In the meantime, the God who speaks to us says: "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, and my ways are not your ways" God is indeed a mystery, and as soon as we start applying our own moral standard on him, we have failed to understand his nature and his purposes for the world he loves and gave his Son for.
Now, instead of lazily asking Christians to answer the question you think we cant possibly answer (we can, believe me), go and do some work - find out the answer yourself. That is, of course, if your question is genuine.

Sidl02 said:

So here's a question for you. It's not meant to cause offence and it's something I would appreciate a well thought out response too.

I'm sure you've been faced with this scenario on many occasions when challenged about your faith. Let me just make one thing clear, I'm an atheist. Having said that, I respect anyone's beliefs and if it draws comfort for those that believe then I'm pleased for them.

But here's my question. So my 30 year old friend...a beautiful, intelligent, dignified, mother to a 10 year old girl and everything that's right about a human being, is dying of cancer. She's battled for 7 years but the end is near and she has a maximum of 6 months to live. She has struggled, suffered (along with her daughter and wonderful mother) throughout this dreadful disease. She has been dignified and stoic, she even put herself through university and gained a 1st despite her condition and treament.

Now what possible explanation could your faith provide me with to justify how cruel and unfair this is? When there are peadophiles and murderers who get to carry out their lives in full. Why is she made to suffer a long, drawn out and painful death? What possible explanation can you offer to her daughter to have to witness such a dreadful and traumatic end to her mothers life?? Something she will spend the rest of her life trying to come to terms with?

And please, don't say that 'god works in mysterious ways'. That's a cop out. Or he 'takes the good ones for a reason'. Well if that's the case then why not just take them? Why let her and her family go through the worst pain and unimaginable suffering? It's a fair question and in respect to her, it warrants a justifiable explanation.
I often hear 'pray for her'. Pray for her???? What am I praying for exactly??? To whom am I begging for leniency when it comes to her drawn out and torturous death??? 'Please god would you be so kind as to not let this beautiful human being lose her life and her body be ravaged by a disease that will slowly and painfully kill her for all her loved ones to witness and that every night she goes to bed with the only hope that it takes her quickly. I'd be ever so grateful to you'. Seriously??

Click to expand...

Sidl02 said:

So here's a question for you. It's not meant to cause offence and it's something I would appreciate a well thought out response too.

I'm sure you've been faced with this scenario on many occasions when challenged about your faith. Let me just make one thing clear, I'm an atheist. Having said that, I respect anyone's beliefs and if it draws comfort for those that believe then I'm pleased for them.

But here's my question. So my 30 year old friend...a beautiful, intelligent, dignified, mother to a 10 year old girl and everything that's right about a human being, is dying of cancer. She's battled for 7 years but the end is near and she has a maximum of 6 months to live. She has struggled, suffered (along with her daughter and wonderful mother) throughout this dreadful disease. She has been dignified and stoic, she even put herself through university and gained a 1st despite her condition and treament.

Now what possible explanation could your faith provide me with to justify how cruel and unfair this is? When there are peadophiles and murderers who get to carry out their lives in full. Why is she made to suffer a long, drawn out and painful death? What possible explanation can you offer to her daughter to have to witness such a dreadful and traumatic end to her mothers life?? Something she will spend the rest of her life trying to come to terms with?

And please, don't say that 'god works in mysterious ways'. That's a cop out. Or he 'takes the good ones for a reason'. Well if that's the case then why not just take them? Why let her and her family go through the worst pain and unimaginable suffering? It's a fair question and in respect to her, it warrants a justifiable explanation.
I often hear 'pray for her'. Pray for her???? What am I praying for exactly??? To whom am I begging for leniency when it comes to her drawn out and torturous death??? 'Please god would you be so kind as to not let this beautiful human being lose her life and her body be ravaged by a disease that will slowly and painfully kill her for all her loved ones to witness and that every night she goes to bed with the only hope that it takes her quickly. I'd be ever so grateful to you'. Seriously??

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What about your sins? (Romans 3.23)

Is anyone exempt from being sinful and from the effect of sin on the human race?

Sorry about your friend; what we all need to be is ready through faith in the Saviour in order to face eternity.

Sidl02 said:

As much as I appreciate and value your responses I feel the usual non commital standard response has been given. You don't feel you can give me an answer I would accept? Why would I not accept a genuine and plausible answer? And why do you not know why god sometimes mitigates evil and sometimes not. If you know he does then why do you not understand why? Surely he has been able to explain why? He's done some rather miraculous things according to the bible so why can't he provide you with an answer to his inability to mitigate evil whenever it arises? Why can't he mitigate the evil that is happening to my beautiful and kind friend? To say sometimes he does and sometimes he doesn't is representative of the lack of a definite answer to something quite simple that is consistently proferred up by way of responding to something you cannot justify. Along the lines of 'god works in mysterious ways'. What mysterious ways are those exactly?? Letting children and young people die a slow and torturous death from cancer? He can put two of every species in a boat but he can't mitigate the evil of a disease slowly killing my friend and her 11 year old daughter having to watch. Seriously?
She doesn't want prayers. She wants to live to watch her daughter grow up. Watch her graduate, get married, become a grandparent. With all due respect your prayers to somebody who has failed to mitigate this particular evil is unwanted and frankly insulting

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I can understand your frustration and anger, but I don't think you're listening to the responses with an open mind. Your posts indicate that you've already decided that whatever a Christian offers you will reject.

As a matter of interest - why do you think Christians should be able to give a definitive answer to this question? Demanding that they should understand the intentions and thought processes of their deity removes the wonder and mystery any god should inspire. I used to think the same - surely God wouldn't let his happen, and if he does surely those who believe in God must know why it is allowed. But the more I thought about it, the more I realised what an unfair question it is.

I watched my father-in-law die from cancer a couple of years ago. It wasn't fun and there was a lot of pain, but there was also a lot of love and understanding. I hope you can find some peace and that the positive memories you have of your friend can sooth the hurt and anger.

As my kiwi wife would say - Kia kaha. Be strong. That's what your friend and her daughter need more than anything.

Hello @Sidl02. I am very sorry to hear about what has happened to your friend. I believe God can heal your friend. I believe that God wants to answer your questions. I do not want what I write to upset you. Concerning why it is you do not believe in Jesus Christ, there may be some assumptions about certain things that you make. To get the answers that God wants to give you, you will have to seek God. What you have been through is painful. God is there waiting for you to seek after Him. An unbeliever does not believe that God’s ways are higher. God’s ways are good, but unbelievers do not believe God's ways are good. Unbelievers do not have hope. I am not trying to upset you. Joy is not a way to pass the time. Joy is something that happens when the desires of the heart are met. Unbelievers do not have joy. Believers may not always have a smile on their face. In this life believers go through trials and distress.

Realize that believers are able to do and say things they should not. Not everyone who claims to be a Christian is a believer.

God shows that He is God by giving prophecies in The Bible which have been fulfilled, are being fulfilled and will be fulfilled. There are many signs that God has given to you so that you can know He is there and that He is God.

I have been through many painful things in my life. The way I see people has changed. All have fallen short of the glory of God. I have fallen short. I have done horrible things. No man can earn eternal life. No man can get to heaven and avoid the wrath of God by works. Nobody is good but God. God is holy and just. The only way for a man to be saved is by believing in Jesus Christ. Once he has done that then someday he will enter heaven because he was saved by grace through faith. The only thing the man had to do to be saved was believe in Jesus Christ. At one instant in time he had to believe in Jesus and once he is saved he can never lose his salvation. When someone becomes a believer their heart changes. There is a confession of sins that takes place in the heart when a person is saved. I believe a person must choose to hate sin and they must believe that Jesus Christ is God. They must also believe that Jesus Christ is The Son of God, that Jesus died on the cross to save them from the punishment for sins, that Jesus was buried and that Jesus was resurrected and that Jesus now lives. They must believe that there is only one God and that He exists in Three Persons. They must believe that God is perfect, holy, good and without sin. Once the person is saved, Jesus keeps them saved. After a person has been saved they do not have to do anything to stay saved. Jesus Christ is The only Savior. Jesus Christ loves you. I will pray that your friend is healed.

Sidl02 said:

Why would it intrigue you Drake50 that an atheist you take the time to post here and raise the questions that I have?
Are you afraid you can't answer them? Or you find a perfectly justifiable excuse by accusing me of trolling?

I raised a perfectly acceptable question, which the other forum members have been polite enough and respectful enough to provide their answers too along with their own painful experiences. I am delighted that they found god. I am delighted that in doing so it has brought them comfort. I respect everyone's beliefs and appreciate them taking the time to reply in the manner with which they have.

But the problem is with people like yourself. Unable to provide a satisfactory response so write it off as you not wanting to waste your time to respond to an 'atheist' or that I'm a troll. This is the fundamental problem with religion. Why can't we all discuss and raise these types of issues, irrespective of our own personal beliefs???

Yes I'm an atheist. I believe in scientific evolution. Does that make me less of a person than you? I happen to be a kind and caring human being. Someone who would help anyone. Listen to anyone. Support anyone. I don't care what their beliefs are and I'm not like this because of god, or because I want a ticket to heaven. I do it because I'm a human being and I care.

To watch my friend dying in this way surely warrants me questioning your faith. When I'm told to pray for her. That God works in mysterious ways. I have a right to be angry. A right to raise my question. I don't mean to insult anyone. I'm hurting. I don't understand how god could make my beautiful and kind friend suffer this way.

That doesn't make me a troll.

Thank you though to all of you for responding in the best way you felt you were able. I appreciate it very much xx

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I think he questions why you're even bothering for an answer or why a Christians view even concerns you, if you're an avowed atheist, its hard to understand you're way of thinking.

Maybe you're upset about your friend and want to be angry at something, you're post seems to have "angry tones" (though a lot can be misunderstood on forums, I admit, as its just words/type on a screen.

Also you seem to be angry at God, but you don't believe in God, so if you don't believe why does it matter to you what Christians think, also to an atheist its just the cycle of life, it happens, its nature, its irrelevant who is "good" or "bad", its hard luck and just the way it is, we have defects like cancer in our genes, evolutions bred it into us. But instead you're angry at a God you refuse to believe in.

Also, like most non-believers, you concentrate your efforts on this life, its the be all and end all, its so unfair "good" people have their life cut short by tragedy.

However there is an eternity on offer, in which death can be the victory, not the defeat, we fear death because there is no trust in God or no belief in God what so ever, but there is no fear with Christ and no fear when you trust in God, only victory.

Why is it unfair? We lose a life we've only gotten from God in the first place, so who are we, to be so arrogant as to tell God what is fair and unfair, the only reason we exist to be able to be angry at the way the world is, is because God allowed us to live in the first place.

There is pain and suffering, its true, but with that also comes free will.

Why do non-believers, who reject God and those we do not truly follow God, feel that God is unfair, they have no faith in God, so why does God owe them something (especially considering God doesn't even "owe" those who truly follow him anything as well), its irrelevant how "good" you are if you reject God and you reject Jesus Christ, who was crucified and then raised. You seem to feel that its unfair that God does not save those who do give their life to the Lord.

If you ask me, God shows human beings more mercy than we deserve, the way we act and treat each other, if we all got wiped out we'd deserve it, but God, shows us mercy and grace, rather than punishment.

God created life, so he can take it away, how "fair" it is, is irrelevant, God does not have to made everything suit our human nature or make he world operate the way we want it too, human beings have become arrogant in this regard, we feel we can lecture God on morals, ethics, Good and evil, right and wrong, good and bad, life and death, when we can't, we have no right to such arrogance!

Sidl02 said:

As much as I appreciate and value your responses I feel the usual non commital standard response has been given. You don't feel you can give me an answer I would accept? Why would I not accept a genuine and plausible answer? And why do you not know why god sometimes mitigates evil and sometimes not. If you know he does then why do you not understand why? Surely he has been able to explain why? He's done some rather miraculous things according to the bible so why can't he provide you with an answer to his inability to mitigate evil whenever it arises? Why can't he mitigate the evil that is happening to my beautiful and kind friend? To say sometimes he does and sometimes he doesn't is representative of the lack of a definite answer to something quite simple that is consistently proferred up by way of responding to something you cannot justify. Along the lines of 'god works in mysterious ways'. What mysterious ways are those exactly?? Letting children and young people die a slow and torturous death from cancer? He can put two of every species in a boat but he can't mitigate the evil of a disease slowly killing my friend and her 11 year old daughter having to watch. Seriously?
She doesn't want prayers. She wants to live to watch her daughter grow up. Watch her graduate, get married, become a grandparent. With all due respect your prayers to somebody who has failed to mitigate this particular evil is unwanted and frankly insulting

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I've found that pretty often here with many, unfortunately.

I'm so sorry to hear this is happening. *hugs*

As for an answer, I feel like it only really causes problems of questions if we go with the assumption that God is all good. And with things like that happening, the Old Testament, etc it seems more to me that God is not all-good, but morally ambiguous as the Old Testament portrayed him as.

I'm still confused as to why an atheist doesn't understand why God (who he doesn't believe exists) should allow or not allow something to happen.

How can God be responsible for something if he doesn't exist?

Sidl02 said:

Why would it intrigue you Drake50 that an atheist you take the time to post here and raise the questions that I have?
Are you afraid you can't answer them? Or you find a perfectly justifiable excuse by accusing me of trolling?

I raised a perfectly acceptable question, which the other forum members have been polite enough and respectful enough to provide their answers too along with their own painful experiences. I am delighted that they found god. I am delighted that in doing so it has brought them comfort. I respect everyone's beliefs and appreciate them taking the time to reply in the manner with which they have.

But the problem is with people like yourself. Unable to provide a satisfactory response so write it off as you not wanting to waste your time to respond to an 'atheist' or that I'm a troll. This is the fundamental problem with religion. Why can't we all discuss and raise these types of issues, irrespective of our own personal beliefs???

Yes I'm an atheist. I believe in scientific evolution. Does that make me less of a person than you? I happen to be a kind and caring human being. Someone who would help anyone. Listen to anyone. Support anyone. I don't care what their beliefs are and I'm not like this because of god, or because I want a ticket to heaven. I do it because I'm a human being and I care.

To watch my friend dying in this way surely warrants me questioning your faith. When I'm told to pray for her. That God works in mysterious ways. I have a right to be angry. A right to raise my question. I don't mean to insult anyone. I'm hurting. I don't understand how god could make my beautiful and kind friend suffer this way.

That doesn't make me a troll.

Thank you though to all of you for responding in the best way you felt you were able. I appreciate it very much xx

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God is no respecter of persons, why would he go out of his way to appease a non believer ? What can you offer or do for God ? Nothing . God loves every one and has set the table for all willing to partake . We all have a purpose in God, we all have a ministry no matter how small . How do you know that your ministry was to minister for this person or that but because of your failure they suffer from your neglect and you suffer eternal damnation, there will be an accounting for all . We all fall short but he allows us to share his goodness and his kingdom . There is serious skin in the game and it is not cheap but it is free through Christ .. Were you planning on not ever dying in the flesh ? Have you set your own date for death ? Don't you see that God has made a way for both believers in Jesus and Atheists ? There will be no unwelcomed in Heaven . At least for now you can be glad of that . I pray the Lord urges and nudges you to a possible change of heart and that you're able to get out of your own way enough to ponder Jesus and find salvation . But each generation since Jesus resurrection including myself comes from non-belief to belief, those that are saved .. Some don't but the numbers will add up in the End with or without . To be chosen you must first choose .