Six Day Creation? No Way!

Oseas said:

You wrote: >>>God is living in heaven with those of us in the future right now. God is the Beginning and the End all at once. We can't look at creation through our perspective, Creation is told via God's perspective.<<<

Let me remember to you that JESUS is the Beginning and the End, the first and the last, the Alpha and Omega. The Most High and Almighty God, He has not beginning, neither ending, He is from Eternity to Eternity. Heaven is not the physical space of the Universe (sky), but celestial regions/places in Christ JESUS (Eph.1:v.3). There are several heavens, the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and the heaven of heavens. Furthermore, Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the Word of God, so that things which are seen WERE NOT MADE of things which do appear. In the beginning (IN JESUS) was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ALL THINGS were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made. (John 1:1&3)

The Most High and Almighty God is in the heaven of the heavens, but heaven is not the physical space of the Universe, but celestial places in Christ JESUS. The question is: Where do you think is the heaven of the heavens, if the Most High and Almighty "God is sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain,(the 1st,2nd,3rd), and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in"? Isaiah 40:v.21to23

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jhwatts said:

Since God is infinite and the age of his creation is only 6000 years, then the time passed would appear to only be a fraction of a second to Him. He however defined it as "old". It doesn't seem right, that to him the time that has passed was only a small fraction of time but yet he called it "old".

You are correct in looking at the genealogy of Christ in Luke. When we look at the genealogy we see that Adam was a son of God. Lets take a quick look at Genesis 6:2. What do we see that looks familiar in this verse? We see the sons of God. These are the generations from Genesis 5. Genesis 5 states that "This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him"

When in the creation narrative did God make man in his likeness? This occurred in Genesis 1:26. Closer inspection should be made in Genesis 1. Notice on many occasions throughout Genesis 1 he used the language to declare the things of this creation being "after his kind".

Lets now take a look at what creatures got on the ark.

Genesis 7: (14-15) 14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort. 15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

We see that these in verse 14 are "after his kind". God felt it was important enough to show that there is another group of creatures getting on the ark. We see that this group was identified by "wherein is the breath of life". Where have we heard in the creation narrative "the breath of life" ? In Genesis 2:7. We see this seems to indicate that the group that God stated that those "wherein is the breath of life" was made from the earth and the dust of the earth.

Here is a interesting piece of scripture in Ecclesiastes we should keep in mind.

Ecclesiastes 3: (18-21) 18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. 19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. 20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. 21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

The female offspring of those of the dust are the daughters of men (Genesis 6:2) and male are the sons of men. We now see what the union in Genesis 6 consisted of the sons of God(made in Gods Likeness) and the daughters of men(made of the dust).

Lets see, if I had a creation that purposely disobeyed me and I cursed them (Genesis 3:17). I could make a new creation in my likeness. I could rid the earth of them by a flood

Genesis 6:7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

We see however only those in Gods likeness exited the ark.

Genesis 8:19 Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark.

But wait, those of the "wherein is the breath of life" entered the ark. Why didn't they get off? The answer is in Genesis 6:21.

Those made from the dust of the earth are now gone and God said he will not curse the earth again.

Genesis 8:21 And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

I said all of that to show that those of the dust are made during the "generations of the heavens and the earth" (Genesis 2:4) and this creation occurred then, Genesis 1:1 and they are not a part of the creation week spoke about in Exodus. The creation week spoke about in Exodus corresponds to the generations of "in the likeness of God made he him" .(Genesis 1:2 - Genesis 2:3).

The "generations of the heavens and the earth" occurred in earths distant past before the deep was placed on the earth in Genesis 1:2. There is a time gap of a unknown time span before Genesis 1:2.

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Revealing Times said:

You do know just quoting scriptures is not a discussion. Its like me reading the bible, I have read the bible many times so when you only quote scriptures, I just skip it. I have bible study every week.

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Oseas said:

O you are discussing about God's creation and you just skip Scriptures. In truth you are not lying. When you say that God is the beginning and the End you are skipping Scriptures. Scriptures say, and I confirm the Word of God, that JESUS is the beginning and the ending, the first and the last, the Alpha and Omega. The Most High and Almighty God has not beginning, neither ending, He is from Eternity to Eternity

You said "We can't look at creation through our perspective, Creation is told via God's perspective".
How could you understand Creation via God's perspective if you ignore Scriptures, the book of the LOrd, as you said?
As I said, Heaven is not the physical space of the Universe (sky), but celestial places in Christ JESUS (Eph.1:v.3). There are several heavens, the 1st, 2nd, 3rd heaven, and the heaven of heavens. By the way, the Apostle Paul knew a man in Christ which was caught up to the third heaven. The Most High and Almighty God is in the heaven of the heavens, and the question is, I repeat: Where do you think is the heaven of the heavens, if the Most High and Almighty "God is sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain,(the 1st,2nd,3rd), and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in"? Isaiah 40:v.21to23

Well, what man knows the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knows no man, but the Spirit of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

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Oseas said:

Let us analize the biblical verse:
Could our God Father say: I will make a man in my image, after my likeness? No, no. Why not? Let us see: God is an invisible being. God is Spirit. What is His image? What is His likeness? How would be the image of a man in this case? Again, Let us see: God is the Word, the Word is God. By the context of creation, What would be the image of the Word? What would be His likeness in this primary context of creation? It would be, let us say, impossible to make a man of the invisible God only.

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Oseas said:

Notice that the previous plan of GOD was to create man in the sixth day of the week, by the way, on the eve of His day of rest, the seventh Day, certainly He would had a hard work to make it and it would be the last work to do, right?

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Oseas said:

What would GOD need to do in that first moment, for to make a man in the sixth Day in His image and likeness? God would need to make first a likeness of Himself, a likeness of the Invisible God. Here is the GREAT MYSTERY for us to interpret it together. Without His likeness was impossible to create man in His image. Who would be His likeness? JESUS, yes, JESUS is the likeness of God Almighty, of course. Only JESUS, yes. (John 14:8-9) 8- Philip saith unto JESUS, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto Philip: Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

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Oseas said:

Here is the MYSTERY. To create man GOD would need, in first place, to make TWO great works: to make be born the person of JESUS and also to make be born the person of the Comfort, the Spirit of Truth, the Holy Spirit, each One in a pre-dertermined Day of the week. First JESUS and after, the person of the Comfort, the Spirit of Truth, the Holy Spirit.

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Oseas said:

And when or in which Days of the week these works would happen? In accord GOD's plan, JESUS would be born in the fourth Day of the week (Gen. 1:v.16 and Col.1:15-20) 15 Who is the image of the invisible God (John 14:v.8-11), the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him: 17 And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist.

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Oseas said:

For better understanding, it is important to know that JESUS was born around 2,000 years ago, ie. 4,000 years after the first Adam, the earthly Adam of he beginning of creation. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. How will be man in the kingdom of God? (Luke 20:35-36 has the answer)

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Oseas said:

There are three that bear record in heaven (heaven is not the physical space of the Universe, but celestial places in Christ JESUS (Eph.1:v.3), the Father (God Father-God is an invisible Spirit), the Word,(JESUS, the Word made flesh) and the Holy Spirit (who is not a ghost, much less a holy ghost, as is written in the Bible of English language, he is a person as JESUS also is, he has a name that no man knows, but he himself(Rev.19:v.12) he is the Comfort, the Paraclete) : and these three are One, three distincts persons and they work as whether were only One.

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Revealing Times said:

Yes sir, glad to answer what can to anyone. For starters the Wilkenson probe mapped the whole universe measuring the Microwave background of the universe. I will give hint at what the WMAP Satellite was/did and then move on from there so I can give you a little background on it. You can read whats boxed in by the pluses or skip it. Some will enjoy it I am sure. I will speak about Quantum Fluctuations below:

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WMAP takes a direct image of the remnant glow of the early universe. This light has been losing energy and stretching out over the last 13.75 billion years, so by the time it reached the WMAP probe in its orbit between the Earth and the sun, the light was detectable as meters-long microwaves.

WMAP launched June 30, 2001, with the goal of sensing subtle temperature differences in the cosmic microwave background, the glow of the first atoms to release their radiation 380,000 years after the Big Bang. Since then, it has provided the most accurate measurement of the age of the universe, proved the existence of dark energy, showed that just 4 percent of the universe is made of ordinary matter and supported the idea that the universe inflated from sub-atomic scale to the size of a soccer ball in its first trillionth of a second. "It's gone way beyond what I imagined, things I didn't even think about at the time," said cosmologist Charles Bennettof Johns Hopkins University, WMAP's principal investigator.

Before WMAP, much of the universe's history was a blank book. Astronomers had some idea that the universe started with a Big Bang sometime between 8 billion and 20 billion years ago, and rapidly expanded after that. But they had very little notion of exactly when, or exactly how. "WMAP added an extraordinary amount in terms of nailing things down," Bennett said. Astronomers now know that the universe is 13.75 billion years old, give or take 0.11 billion years, a measurement that was recognized in the Guinness Book of World Records as the "most accurate measure of the age of the universe."
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So the universe has been mapped out, its kind of like Radar seeing planes, its there, its really there, but its not exactly a picture per se. So when this WMAP showed the Darkness that the bible showed, it hit me, God is always correct, He is NEVER WRONG, we just can not in this present age understand his understandings in full. So the Picture in post 201, that is a real, mapped out picture of the universe, not just some hypothetical drawing. And everything in it matches what God said happened in Genesis. The NIGHT/Darkness was first, there was DARK AGES/Darkness upon the Deep, even where the Scriptures say and God moved upon the face of the water, and God said let there be Light.......Light has to be reflected off of something or the only light there is is a Beam of light, thus I think water is what God uses to reflect light in the universe, that just a hunch, but just look at the scriptures, God spoke about the waters, then commanded the light to come forth. We know that light has to be reflected to be seen, that is not in question. There would be beams of light, but it wouldn't light up its surroundings.

We have the Universe mapped out. We can also see light from Millions of light years away, so right of the bat we have to understand that Day in Genesis stands for something other than an Earth day, or God supernaturally created the world in a short span but made it to look like its old, and God doesn't need to do that since He is living in ALL TIME AT ONCE. He doesn't have to wait, and there is no need for God to change the order of things to deceive man, that just is not fathomable. So the universe testifies that is is Millions of years old, thus Billions of years old via all the information we have.

As per the Quantum Fluctuations, this Scientist says he can prove God exists in 5 Minutes, he he says the Universe is 13.7 Billion years old, instead of me telling you WHAT/WHO Quantum Fluctuations is allow his 5 Minute Video to tell you.

This is getting a little long so I will make another post.

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Sapiens said:

Hello again!

Thank you for your well-written response.

I am unfortunately left unconvinced. Perhaps you will tell me it is because of my ignorance in the field, but I hardly see how seeing some particles of light or whatever in the present can tell you how old the universe is... Much less how it was formed in the course of time. If you yourself possess the understanding, then I would appreciate you vulgarizing it for me. (Or if you know of a good website that explains it)

I also watched the video. The man seems to be a nice person. However, I fail to see the relevance of his argument. The laws of nature could not have preceded the universe, and, even if they did, it would be pure speculation to posit that they have. All we need to know is that the universe began to exist, that it cannot create itself and that it has a cause of its existence outside of itself which is itself uncreated and eternal. That is of course God. In any case, the laws of nature were themselves created by God for this universe, so...

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Revealing Times said:

I don't need to see someone "Quoting Scriptures" without making an intelligent argument for himself. I am a Preacher, I know the scriptures brother. That's the point. Pasting a bunch of scriptures without making a point means very little.

I know others like this, they are Post tribbers (which is dead wrong) and they think by posting scriptures it makes their point, which it doesn't because they seemingly do not understand that which they post. POINT BEING: Just because someone post a scripture, doesn't mean that scripture agree with their point of view.

IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation the Church returns with Jesus (See Rev. 19), but they think by posting that scripture it creates a point that can't be defeated.

Make an argument brother, you will learn much more from back and forths when you make an actual argument on a subject.

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Oseas said:

O you make an intelligent argument for yourself, you are a preacher and you, brother, know Scriptures and that's the point, right? Then you should know what the Lord will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent He will frustrate. So, where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? I know also Scriptures. The Scriptures explain Scriptures. I work with the Word of God, exclusively. I know not word more powerful than the Word of God, believe-me.

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Oseas said:

The Apostle Paul warned: 2The.2:3to12
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (man of sin? son of perdition? Do you know who is this satanic Wicked, which will manifest himself in Israel very soon as a messiah? JESUS spoke about him (John.5:43) , about this IMPOSTOR, an usurper.)
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

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Oseas said:

You wrote: >>>IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation the Church returns with Jesus (See Rev. 19), but they think by posting that scripture it creates a point that can't be defeated.<<<
O Rev. 19 speaks about a warrior and he judges and make war, yes, he makes war against the dragon, and against the Beast and against the false prophet, by the way, from the mouth of this satanic trinity come out three unclean spirits like frogs, they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of THIS great DAY of God Almighty.
And he has a name written that no man knew, but he himself, however the believers call him erroneously of JESUS. Pure invention of the theologians.

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Sapiens said:

I am unfortunately left unconvinced. Perhaps you will tell me it is because of my ignorance in the field,

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jhwatts said:

God is not invisible but we simply cannot look upon Him with our earthly form.

Exodus 33: (18-23) 18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory. 19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy. 20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. 21 And the Lord said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock: 22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: 23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

Moses looked at the back of God and so he must be visible.
What you are calling the previous plan is the post.
You do know the mind of God and therefore what you are proposing is a pure assumption.
Again, speculation. You are simply assuming God needs to two great works.
Jesus existed before the world was and not created on the fourth day. Proverbs 8: (22-32)
The Trinity.
Your theology is fragmented and full of speculation and has very little Bible support. You show no real coherent connection between the scriptures you point out.

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Revealing Times said:

Again, 1. The Universe is mapped out. 2. We understand the speed of Light and we can see how old the universe is by looking at the Stars light/distance from earth.



I have read them, you just don't quite seem to be grasping what is written there, (as I didn't for 30 years) the 400 million years happened first, then the stars started forming, and they formed for 9.2 BILLION YEARS and then the sun (a Star) came forth with its planets via a cloud of dust (Nebula) and thus our sun was created 9.2 Billion years after the Big Bang. So the 400 million years of Darkness happened way before our sun and earth was formed.

As per the the earth being created before the sun, that is NOT POSSIBLE, that comes from humans misunderstanding what God is speaking about in Gen. 1 when he says the SEASONS were created, I really don't see how people can actually believe that the sun Earthand moon weren't created at the same time via a Nubela. Stars are still forming, so we can see how it works in real time. God set the Seasons via the earth and moon. The moon has a dark side that never sees the light, if you lived there would there even be a sun? Yes, but it would be something you knew nothing about, and thus God choose not to give light unto that side of the moon, whereas at one time, before it became our moon, no doubt it received sunlight. So things changed when our earth and the moon clashed/hit each other. Google that.



All of it is literal, the Hebrew language at that time had only 4000 or so words, we have 500,000 in the English language, so they used words for many things, and YOWM was used for a "period of time" among about 50 other things, that's just the way it was. The original meaning of Yowm is "To be Hot" so the first day was about the stars forming, the Evening (Darkness) and the Light (Stars).



The stars were not created after earth that is just a misunderstanding many have about what the Fourth Day means and how they wrote back in that day and time, it is not like our modern writings. Just look at at Genesis 2, they repeat the Creation of man, did God create man again? NO, of course not. And on day four God did not create the stars again. Here is how it went down, IMHO.

1. Big Bang 380,000 years of afterglow.
2. Stars start forming after 400 Million years of Darkness
3. After 9.2 Billion years the Sun and its Planets all formed at once.
4. More stars formed after the Sun and moon were created, and are still forming !!

The confusion with day four kind of amazes me. Its very apparent that God is speaking how He formed the Seasons, Days, Months and Years, its all about God dividing the Day from the Night. Its not about creating light again, its about dividing it proportionally, creating seasons

There is one part of your next to last question that I want to answer in another post....The why the Universe has to be the Size it is, thus the age it is etc. etc. I think it is amazing WHY God had to create the Universe the EXACT SIZE it is. Remember, 13.7 Billion years to you is a long time, to God, as soon as He created the Universe, He was living in its finished product.

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Revealing Times said:

This is by Richard Deem......All Credit to him, but this answers your question as to why the Universe is the Size it is, and thus the age it is.

Size of the Universe
The universe is immense in size. If God created the universe why would He make it so big and massive? It turns out that the laws of physics require the universe to be the size it is in order for stars and galaxies (and humans) to exist.....................by Rich Deem

Size of the Universe: Isn't it Too Large to Have Been Created by God for Humanity?

The large size of the universe is often said to be an argument against the existence of the God of Christianity. If the purpose of God were to create a place for humans to live, why didn't God just create one star and one planet? Isn't the existence of trillions of galaxies a complete waste? Doesn't the huge size and mass of the universe suggest that humans are just a cosmic accident among the numerous habitable planets?

God's purpose for the universe
The argument that the universe is too large to have been created by God implies a knowledge of God's purposes in creating the universe. Skeptics tend to assume that Christianity claims that the universe was created to give humans a nice place to live. What does a universe look like that requires free will choice? First, there is a requirement for cause and effect. Since we live in such a universe, we tend to assume that cause and effect is a given. However, time, a necessary component of cause and effect, is a construct of this universe, and began at the initiation of the Big bang. So, the immense size of the universe demonstrates God's power and authority.

Universe size matters!
Besides spiritual reasons, there are also physical constraints on the minimum (and maximum) mass of the universe. The universe could not have been much smaller than it is in order for nuclear fusion to have occurred during the first 3 minutes after the Big Bang. Without this brief period of nucleosynthesis, the early universe would have consisted entirely of hydrogen. Without helium (comprising ~24% of the matter in the universe), heavy element production in stars is not possible, so that no rocky planets would have ever existed in the entire history of the universe.

Likewise, the universe could not have been a much more massive than it is, or life would not have been possible. If the universe were just one part in 10/59 more massive, the universe would have collapsed before life was possible. Since there are only 10/80 baryons in the universe, this means that an addition of just 10/21 baryons (at 1.67x10−27 kg/baryon equals 1.7 mg of matter - equal to a GRAIN OF SAIND) would have made life impossible! The universe is exactly the size it must be for life to exist at all.

One more Grain of Sand and our Universe would have collapsed. The Universe is the exact size it needs to be and thus it needs to be 13.7 Billion years old, you are looking at things in our construct of "space time", God is not subject to those constraints, he lives in all time at once. So Go did not have to wait on the universe to be created, He spoke it and lived in its finished product at the same time.

God is living in heaven with those of us in the future right now. God is the Beginning and the End all at once. We can't look at creation through our perspective, Creation is told via Gods perspective.

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Revealing Times said:

The LORD will destroy the Wise is a very telling thing you are saying, because you assume true wisdom is evil and I don't because Solomon was wise as were the Prophets, you miss the whole point of the passage. God is saying I will destroy the WISE MEN "who do not trust in me".... just because you post that scripture has ZERO BEARING where I get my Wisdom from. You think you are using it as a weapon against people, but I have been of the Holy Spirit well over 30 years, my wisdom comes from God, and just because you post that scripture doesn't mean that is where you get your wisdom from is of God, it might be, and it might not be, I don't know you, but I do understand you do not understand what that passage means if you think because you posting it means the Universe is 6000 years old. You can posts scriptures until you are blue in the face, and its not going to change the fact that the universe is 13.7 Billion years old and if you think its 6000 years old then you just missed the boat my friend.



This passage proves you are not called to Prophecy it would seem, which is actually my calling. And John 5:43 is not about the Anti-Christ at all. In Matthew 24 Jesus gave us all of the signs we would see before his Second Coming. Verses 1-6 are about the time from Jesus until the 70 AD Destruction. Verses 7-13/14 is about the time from 70 AD until the Rapture. And verses 14/15-27 is about the Tribulation. That is why Jesus mentions false christs/false prophets three times. In verse 5, in verse 11 and in verse 24.

The John 5:43 scripture is speaking about the false christs before 70 AD, the Pharisees though rightly that Rome was the Fourth Beast so they were looking for the "Little Horn" to come forth and therefore they expected the Messiah to show up and save them, thus they put forth messiahs quite a few times and that is what Jesus mean by that Scripture....John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

This was the Pharisees who rejected Christ Jesus accepting false messiahs just before Rome destroyed the Temple and the City of Jerusalem.

I point this out because they few I know who think that scripture is an end time scripture think that Israel accepts this false messiah as their messiah when they do no such thing. They accept Jesus as their Messiah see Malachi 4:5-6, Zechariah 12:10 and 13:1)

The supposed falling away from the faith is no such thing, it is the DEPARTURE OF THE CHURCH which the first seven English translations stated it was. There is NO MENTION of faith in the whole passage, but there is a mention of the rapture, the GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO CHRIST.



The Church is in Heaven and RETURNS with Christ Jesus. The other points are obvious !!

Again you posting scriptures proves noting unless you make coherent points.

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Revealing Times said:

The LORD will destroy the Wise is a very telling thing you are saying, because you assume true wisdom is evil and I don't because Solomon was wise as were the Prophets, you miss the whole point of the passage. God is saying I will destroy the WISE MEN "who do not trust in me".... just because you post that scripture has ZERO BEARING where I get my Wisdom from. You think you are using it as a weapon against people, but I have been of the Holy Spirit well over 30 years, my wisdom comes from God, and just because you post that scripture doesn't mean that is where you get your wisdom from is of God, it might be, and it might not be, I don't know you, but I do understand you do not understand what that passage means if you think because you posting it means the Universe is 6000 years old. You can posts scriptures until you are blue in the face, and its not going to change the fact that the universe is 13.7 Billion years old and if you think its 6000 years old then you just missed the boat my friend.

>>>The LORD will destroy the Wise is a very telling thing you are saying, because you assume true wisdom is evil and I don't ...<<<
Oh you said me: "I don't need to see someone "Quoting Scriptures" without making an intelligent argument for himself. I am a Preacher, I know the scriptures brother. That's the point."
And I said unto you: O you make an intelligent argument for yourself, you are a preacher and you, brother, know Scriptures and that's the point, right? Then you should know what the Lord will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent He will frustrate.
My reply was adressed direct to you, yourself, in response to your arrogance. And now you are trying to get off by the tangent saying that "I assume that the true wisdom given to Solomon and Prophets is evil and you not", when in fact it is the contrary of what you are saying, your wisdom is evil and will be destroyed by the Lord, and not the wisdom of Solomon and the prophets. Once you are twisting my words, saying that I said what I did not say, such spirit is evil really, from where comes your evil wisdom.

>>>...because Solomon was wise as were the Prophets, you miss the whole point of the passage.<<<
No, I do not miss the point of the passage, my message was adressed direct to you, yourself, in response to your arrogance.

>>>God is saying I will destroy the WISE MEN "who do not trust in me".... just because you post that scripture has ZERO BEARING where I get my Wisdom from.<<<

I know your arrogant spirit and I know where you get your wisdom from. Oh, whence then comes wisdom? and where is the place of intelligence? The fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is intelligence. Remember: The Lord will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. Oh cease you from man, whose breath is in your nostrils: for wherein are you to be accounted of ? Stop trusting in mere humans, who have but a breath in their nostrils, why hold them in esteem?

>>>You think you are using it as a weapon against people, ...<<<

I do not think what you think that I think, nor I am using a weapon against people, absolutely, what I am doing is to separate the tares from the wheat.

>>>... but I have been of the Holy Spirit well over 30 years, my wisdom comes from God, ...<<<

I know the Holy Spirit, who is not a ghost, much less a holy ghost as is written in the Bible of English language, he is a person and has a name written that no man knows, but he himself, in the other hand I must tell unto you that the number 30 is the number of the betrayers of the Lord JESUS.

>>>... and just because you post that scripture doesn't mean that is where you get your wisdom from is of God, it might be, and it might not be, ... <<<

Friend, that may be aplied also for you, no?

>>>I don't know you, but I do understand you do not understand what that passage means if you think because you posting it means the Universe is 6000 years old.<<<

I did not write or say it anywhere, nor did such a thought ever occur to me. Again you're saying I said what I did not say, that's too bad. I never said or meant that the Universe is 6,000 years old, you're making this up. What I say is that the restoration of all things in accord the plan of God revealed in Genesis is 6.000 years old or six Days of God's work (one Day with the Lord is as a thousand years), Based in the Word of God, the source of the truth, on God's six days of creation and one day of rest (a total of seven days) plus the Scriptures that teach that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years (Psalm 90:4; II Pet. 3:8; Heb. 4:4) so mankind will go through six God days of 1,000 years each (a total of 6,000 years) plus a Millennium of 1,000 years rest (now a total of 7,000 years). This has nothing to do with age of the Universe.

>>>You can posts scriptures until you are blue in the face, and its not going to change the fact that the universe is 13.7 Billion years old <<<

Oh friend, you can posts scriptures until you are blue in the face, and its not going to change the fact that the Universe is much much more than 13,7 billion years old.
The weak and fragile man must discover more capable sources for measuring hundreds of billions of years to measure the age of the Universe. The Most High God is from Eternity to Eternity, if you try to write the number of an Eternity, you will die before. You have only heard to speak of Him, but you do not know Him.

>>>...and if you think its 6000 years old then you just missed the boat my friend.<<<

I do not think what you think I think. You are very wise in conjectures, evasives, presumptions, twisting my words. That's very ugly.

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Sapiens said:

I don't see how starlight would tell you that the universe is billions of years old... Moreover, in Genesis 1:16, God explicitly creates the stars. After the earth. After the sun and moon. The earth God created on day 3 is our earth. Grass and stuffs grows on it God says. Let's put aside the worldy and humanly ideas for a moment and consider what God himself is saying please.

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Sapiens said:

It doesn't speak of Billions of years, nor of nubelas, nor of Big Bangs. Of course it's possible for God to create the earth and grass before the sun... Nor only is it, but that's what God himself claims to have done...

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Sapiens said:

So what meaning does YOWM have in Exodus 20:9-11? God, yes God, makes a comparison between the timeframe of his creation of the world with the weekdays and the sabbath. Is he using the same word for two completely different measures of time? It sure doesn't look like it!!! "The same way I did this... Indeed in 6 days..." (paraphrasing the verses). He seems to be talking about the same thing here.

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Sapiens said:

No disrespect, but that's indeed all I think it is: your opinion. It doesn't matter that it isn't the same kind of writing or that man's creation is told again but in more details in chapter 2... You have to prove the order mentionned in chapter 1 is not at all what it is... Earth is created first, then the sun and moon, and then the stars. Why mix the order??? He even says the days...

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Sapiens said:

Ok. Everything you quoted takes for granted the Big Bang happened and that's exactly what I DON'T believe... I think God created things just the way He wanted them... The problem with the Big Bang theory is exactly this: it works with natural processes.

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Sapiens said:

No. God made it like He wanted it. There was no mistake possible. It didn't require billions of years of weird accidents and interactions of matter, energy and whatnot. Free will, cause and effect, and time do not require the Big Bang in order to exist... So mentioning that in relation to the BB theory was irrelevant. Life either. He made it like it had to be to work...

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Sapiens said:

I appreciate the effort though, but you have to admit this is not very convincing...

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Papias said:

Yes,that's exactly the case. There is a huge difference between arguing in favor of what the experts say and arguing against what the experts say. That's why Revealing Times has a huge pile of evidence supporting him, and you don't.

If you are arguing against the experts in a field that requires a lot of work to understand all the evidence, then you either have done all that work, or you are likely suffering from the Dunning kruger effect. Think of it - these scientists (most of whom are believers), have studied for years, then done research often for decades, as well as checking the work of others and having their work checked by peer-review. And along comes some bloke on the internet, with practically no understanding even of how the work is done, and says "I am unfortunately left unconvinced. "?!?!! Talk about arrogance.

It's a lot like the case here:

"Hi honey, I'm home!"
"Oh dear, I've been so worried about you- did the doctor have the biopsy results?"
"Yeah, he says I've got stage IV lung cancer, but I am unfortunately left unconvinced. "
"But, didn't he have not just the biopsy results, but also the DNA sequence from the tumor cells, as well as the radiographic data and blood results?"
"sure - but I don't fully understand all that, and I haven't been through medical school, so it all doesn't sway me."
"But didn't he also run it all past Drs Brown and Chahandrakan?"
"Yeah, but that doesn't increase my understanding, of course, so why would that make me more convinced?"
Well, dear, because they are experts too, and know what the data mean. They've spent years to understand the biology involved."
"Experts, shmexperts - I don't see anything about lung cancer, doctors of oncology, medical school, biopsies, DNA, radiography, nor blood proteins in by Bible, and even worse, Dr Chahandrakan worships demons, so I can't accept anything she says, and so I am unfortunately left unconvinced. "
"but our holy scripture was written during the bronze age, dear - it's God communicating to people at the time - in their worldview, none of those things exist - of course God would speak to them at their level and not include any of that."
"Oh, I think they could have understood it. And the scriptures are pretty clear - there is no mention of cancer at all - diseases are most often caused by demons!"
"Maybe it's a demon causing the cancer? In any case, what did the doctor say was next?"
"He said that I needed to start chemotherapy next week - but that's not in the Bible either, so I'll be fasting instead. I don't understand fully how chemo is supposed to work, so it must not work."​

In Christ-

Papias

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Revealing Times said:

The video was not fully perceived by you then. Here was his argument, and either you cut it a bit short or didn't grasp it.

Laws of Nature/Set of Forces called Quantum Fluctuations

1. Not Physical
2. Acts on the Physical
3. Created the Physical from Nothing
4. Predates the Universe

This ABOVE is the very definition of the Biblical God.

So this Quantum Fluctuations as Science calls it, is the Laws of Nature or a Set of Forces or.................. GOD !!

He's telling you that Scientists have Discovered God and DON'T REALIZE IT.

1. God is a Spirit (Not Physical)
2. God Created the Universe (Physical Worlds)
3. God Created the Universe from Nothing (He spoke it into existence)
4. God PREDATES the Universe (That's what the Bible says, God is Eternal).

Pictures don't lie, we can see babies in wombs the same way and planes on Radar, so that is on you brother. The light is reaching our earth from Millions of miles away. Meaning we can not be a young earth. Its just not really even debatable.

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Revealing Times said:

Ir seems you miss the forest for the trees. The Big Bang PROVES GOD !!!

In the 1800's the Scientists all believed the universe was "Eternal" and thus had no need of being "CREATED" by a God of the Bible. Then two Scientists heard the ECHO of the Big Bang, and thus the Scientists all had to ADMIT the Universe had a Beginning { In the Beginning, God Created the Heavens and the Earth}.

So you are arguing against that which proves God said Let there be Light !! I don't get your argument, at all.

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Revealing Times said:

You are wrong, and you will see you are wrong n Heaven. You do not even get that the Big Bang PROVES God brother. You really should study more on this subject.

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Revealing Times said:

O am not here to convince you, but to speak truth to power.

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