What Exactly is the Mission of the Church?

Neogaia777 said:

That scripture can refer directly to people who think, or are, baptized born again Christians, or in the Old Covenant, those who claim to be law abiders, that he is "not well pleased" with many of them, and that, may be a nice way of putting it maybe...?

Also, the rock that followed them, if truly "all is one, but only one (God alone) is "all"" and he is in everything, and a part of everything, (which is what true omnipresence means), was the rock that followed them, also the pillar of cloud, or the pillar of (what they called) "fire" also...? cause those...? Actually it says, the "rock followed them" doesn't it...? But I think he (God) was in front of them, behind them, to their sides, very far, and yet very, very, very "near" (to and in everything) Also, most often now only manifesting itself as only a voice, none of that other stuff worked anyway...

Anyhow, just thinking...

God Bless!

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Wordkeeper said:

Yet baptism leads to being fed, even the children of believers benefit from being exposed to Scripture, that's the blessing of the covenant, the blessing that is denied to those who are not God's People:

1 Corinthians 12:1-5
1For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea; 2and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3and all ate the same spiritual food;4and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.5Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.

Although it's not the same as being made loyal, as v5 shows. No one can give faith, you have to want to be loyal. You can take a horse to the water, it can drink, be blessed, but you can't make it like what it drinks.

And the Berean way is also my way. I don't know how you differentiate the two.

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bbbbbbb said:

Well, all I can say it didn't work for me or for any of the others in my church that I knew who were baptized as infants. None of had a clue concerning what was in the Bible and only those of us who were converted by God's grace through faith had our spiritual eyes opened.


I have never been told to be loyal. Goodness I know plenty of folks here at CF who are loyal followers, usually of their church and its teaching. Is that what you mean?

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Neogaia777 said:

That scripture can refer directly to people who think, or are, baptized born again Christians, or in the Old Covenant, those who claim to be law abiders, that he is "not well pleased" with many of them, and that, may be a nice way of putting it maybe...?

Also, the rock that followed them, if truly "all is one, but only one (God alone) is "all"" and he is in everything, and a part of everything, (which is what true omnipresence means), was the rock that followed them, also the pillar of cloud, or the pillar of (what they called) "fire" also...? cause those...? Actually it says, the "rock followed them" doesn't it...? But I think he (God) was in front of them, behind them, to their sides, very far, and yet very, very, very "near" (to and in everything) Also, most often now only manifesting itself as only a voice, none of that other stuff worked anyway...

Anyhow, just thinking...

God Bless!

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Wordkeeper said:

There are many ways of saying what happens at baptism to candidates, but generally, it is an indication of leaving the world, give up serving it, depending on it for survival, to following God, because what the world offered was not attractive to them, and definitely not for the price asked:

Hebrews 11:8-13
8By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was going.9By faith he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise; 10for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God. 11By faith even Sarah herself received ability to conceive, even beyond the proper time of life, since she considered Him faithful who had promised. 12Therefore there was born even of one man, and him as good as dead at that, as many descendants AS THE STARS OF HEAVEN IN NUMBER, AND INNUMERABLE AS THE SAND WHICH IS BY THE SEASHORE.

13All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth.

.....
Do you get the impression that the trials Abraham went through were exercises God carried out to teach him to commit himself fully to Him, and that it took Abraham a little while to understand how much he had to commit (all!)? This is what Paul labelled “drinking from the Rock”. Even amongst the million Israelites that left Egypt and could so drink, only two adults entered the Promised Land, telling us they (the other Israelites) did not want to switch (repent) from depending on Egypt for poor returns, to depending on God for much better results, albeit at a higher price.

If you hadn’t experienced this drinking, it’s because the Gospel was never conveyed to you and your parents in terms of turning away from mammon, and to serving God.

1 Peter 4:12-19
12Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you, which comes upon you for your testing, as though some strange thing were happening to you; 13but to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing, so that also at the revelation of His glory you may rejoice with exultation. 14If you are reviled for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you.15Make sure that none of you suffers as a murderer, or thief, or evildoer, or a troublesome meddler; 16but if anyone suffers as a Christian, he is not to be ashamed, but is to glorify God in this name. 17For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18AND IF IT IS WITH DIFFICULTY THAT THE RIGHTEOUS IS SAVED, WHAT WILL BECOME OF THE GODLESS MAN AND THE SINNER? 19Therefore, those also who suffer according to the will of God shall entrust their souls to a faithful Creator in doing what is right.

Bottomline: being loyal to God results in entering “rest”, favor with God, temporal safety for Abraham and Joshua, spiritual fulfilment for New Covenant believers.

Hebrews 4:1-11
1Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it. 2For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard.

3For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said,

“AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH,

THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST,”

although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.

4For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: “AND GOD RESTED ON THESEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS”; 5and again in this passage, “THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.”6Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,

7He again fixes a certain day, “Today,” saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before,

“TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,

DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS.”

8For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that. 9So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. 10For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.11Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.

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bbbbbbb said:

I had no such impressions at my baptism as I was, at most, two months old at the time.

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Wordkeeper said:

Well the offer was made to the Old Covenant believers for a lesser blessing and to New for a superior one and it still stands.

As the Ethiopian eunch was informed, the Promised Land was healed by the stripes of the sin offering, so the "Rest" is a better Rest.

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The blood of the high priest has special value. In agreement with this principle, Zech. 3 uses all the symbolism of a defiled human high priest Joshua and then speaks mysteriously of the Branch in connection with which “I will remove the sin of this land in a single day” (Zech. 3:9).

The Shadow of Christ in the Law of Moses

Any Eastern Orthodox believer will tell you that baptised infants are special, enjoying benefits but immune from cursing, like those under 21 in the Exodus. It means if your parents had understood the Gospel, you would have been exposed to more of God's demonstrations of His ability and faithfulness.

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bbbbbbb said:

Well, my parents did not understand the Gospel, but didn't want me in hell if I died, so they had me baptized. I did not seem to be immune from cursing, but then I can't recall anyone who cursed me until later in life.

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Wordkeeper said:

Assuming you agree the Gospel is the announcement of the healing of the Land, you won't be fed from the Rock until you are presented with the choice of opting for Egypt or the Promised Land.

Acts 8:26-39
26But an angel of the Lord spoke to Philip saying, “Get up and go south to the road that descends from Jerusalem to Gaza.” (This is a desert road.) 27So he got up and went; and there was an Ethiopian eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure; and he had come to Jerusalem to worship, 28and he was returning and sitting in his chariot, and was reading the prophet Isaiah. 29Then the Spirit said to Philip, “Go up and join this chariot.” 30Philip ran up and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and said, “Do you understand what you are reading?” 31And he said, “Well, how could I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

32Now the passage of Scripture which he was reading was this:
“HE WAS LED AS A SHEEP TO SLAUGHTER;
AND AS A LAMB BEFORE ITS SHEARER IS SILENT,
SO HE DOES NOT OPEN HIS MOUTH.

33“IN HUMILIATION HIS JUDGMENT WAS TAKEN AWAY;
WHO WILL RELATE HIS GENERATION?
FOR HIS LIFE IS REMOVED FROM THE EARTH.”

34The eunuch answered Philip and said, “Please tell me, of whom does the prophet say this? Of himself or of someone else?” 35Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. 36As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?” 37[And Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”] 38And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him. 39When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; and the eunuch no longer saw him, but went on his way rejoicing.

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bbbbbbb said:

The gospel of Jesus Christ has nothing whatsoever to do with "the healing of the land" so your assumption that I agree with you is erroneous.

I Corinthians 15:1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.


3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me. 11 Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

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Wordkeeper said:

Here's where the Land is healed:

1 Corinthians 15:3
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,

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bbbbbbb said:

That's nonsense. Christ died for our sins, not the sins of "the Land".

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Wordkeeper said:

What does striving to enter the Promised Land have to do with the promise given to Abraham?

Why is there this mysterious disconnect?

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bbbbbbb said:

We are talking about the gospel are we not?

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Wordkeeper said:

God told Abraham thet the world would be blessed through His seed:
Genesis 22:18
18"In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice."

God forgets about His mission here?
Exodus 3:13-17
13Then Moses said to God, “Behold, I am going to the sons of Israel, and I will say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you.’ Now they may say to me, ‘What is His name?’ What shall I say to them?” 14God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM”; and He said, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” 15God, furthermore, said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is My name forever, and this is My memorial-name to all generations. 16“Go and gather the elders of Israel together and say to them, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, has appeared to me, saying, “I am indeed concerned about you and what has been done to you in Egypt. 17“So I said, I will bring you up out of the affliction of Egypt to the land of the Canaanite and the Hittite and the Amorite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite, to a land flowing with milk and honey.”’

The point is that the Gospel is meant for a future time, and the information in the Old Testament is meant to guide the believers of that future time, so that they will know what the terms and conditions are, the requirements and the benefits:

1 Corinthians 10:6
6Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved.

1 Corinthians 10:11
Now these things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come.

So if someone comes and tells you that the Gospel is:

To believe in Jesus, believe that He is the person who can fix it so that you get to go to Heaven, and in so believing, go to Heaven (for which there is no evidence in the OT),

Or

The good place to be in is the Promised Land, in Christ, an environment where death, separation from God, that occured in the first Adam is absent, has been healed, where eternal life, knowing God, being in union with Him is present, so that those who are there can be blessed and be a blessing to the world, entered through drinking from the Rock, accessed through baptism, for which truth the evidence is in the OT:

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We may return to the same conclusion that we reached before: the sacrifice of animals is inadequate to achieve final cleansing, nor can it cleanse anything more than the copies of heavenly things. Then who will bring the definitive sacrifice? A man must do it. A similar point is made indirectly in Num. 35:33-34: “Do not pollute the land where you are. Bloodshed pollutes the land, and atonement cannot be made for the land on which blood has been shed, except by the blood of the one who shed it. Do not defile the land where you live and where I dwell, for I, the LORD, dwell among the Israelites.” When a man had shed blood, the man must die. But there is one exception, when the blood of the death of the high priest releases a manslaughterer to return home (Num. 35:25-28). The blood of the high priest has special value. In agreement with this principle, Zech. 3 uses all the symbolism of a defiled human high priest Joshua and then speaks mysteriously of the Branch in connection with which “I will remove the sin of this land in a single day” (Zech. 3:9).

The Shadow of Christ in the Law of Moses


Isaiah 53:1-12
1Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
4Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
7He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8By oppressiona and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.b
9He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makesc his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11After he has suffered,
he will see the light of lifed and be satisfiede ;
by his knowledgef my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,g
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,h
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

Acts 8:26-39
26But an angel of the Lord spoke to Philip saying, “Get up and go south to the road that descends from Jerusalem to Gaza.” (This is a desert road.) 27So he got up and went; and there was an Ethiopian eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure; and he had come to Jerusalem to worship, 28and he was returning and sitting in his chariot, and was reading the prophet Isaiah. 29Then the Spirit said to Philip, “Go up and join this chariot.” 30Philip ran up and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and said, “Do you understand what you are reading?” 31And he said, “Well, how could I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

32Now the passage of Scripture which he was reading was this:

“HE WAS LED AS A SHEEP TO SLAUGHTER;
AND AS A LAMB BEFORE ITS SHEARER IS SILENT,
SO HE DOES NOT OPEN HIS MOUTH.
33“IN HUMILIATION HIS JUDGMENT WAS TAKEN AWAY;
WHO WILL RELATE HIS GENERATION?
FOR HIS LIFE IS REMOVED FROM THE EARTH.”

34The eunuch answered Philip and said, “Please tell me, of whom does the prophet say this? Of himself or of someone else?” 35Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. 36As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?” 37[And Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”] 38And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him. 39When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; and the eunuch no longer saw him, but went on his way rejoicing.

2 Kings 17:24-28
24The king of Assyria brought men from Babylon and from Cuthah and from Avva and from Hamath and Sepharvaim, and settled them in the cities of Samaria in place of the sons of Israel. So they possessed Samaria and lived in its cities. 25At the beginning of their living there, they did not fear the LORD; therefore the LORD sent lions among them which killed some of them. 26So they spoke to the king of Assyria, saying, “The nations whom you have carried away into exile in the cities of Samaria do not know the custom of the god of the land; so he has sent lions among them, and behold, they kill them because they do not know the custom of the god of the land.”

27Then the king of Assyria commanded, saying, “Take there one of the priests whom you carried away into exile and let him go and live there; and let him teach them the custom of the god of the land.” 28So one of the priests whom they had carried away into exile from Samaria came and lived at Bethel, and taught them how they should fear the LORD.

Which Gospel would you believe is more likely the true Gospel?

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bbbbbbb said:

This gospel -

I Corinthians 15:1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.


3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me. 11 Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

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Wordkeeper said:

What is the good part of that good news?

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bbbbbbb said:

you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you

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Wordkeeper said:

So God made Adam ready for Heaven and he got off the bus?

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