Joel Osteen

JackRT said:

Paul made his living as a tent maker. In fact, all rabbis supported themselves.

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YOu misread Paul if you think that. Paul said he was an exception, and that all the other apostles made their living from the gospel.

Dave-W said:

YOu misread Paul if you think that. Paul said he was an exception, and that all the other apostles made their living from the gospel.

1 Corinthians 9:14
So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel.​

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I was not speaking of apostles. I spoke only of Paul and of rabbis in general.

ThatRobGuy said:

"he's not rich because he's the pastor of that mega-church, he's rich because of his books and other appearances".

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I never said that

As far as I'm concerned Osteen is just another snake oil salesman pretending to be a member of the clergy. After Joel said there was too much flooding at his church people went to his church and the interior, what was visible from the outside, was pretty dry. Apparently it turns out--from what I've gathered--parts of the parking garage and basement areas were flooded. After social media called him out on it, he then opened the church; and then claimed that the church was never closed in the first place.


-CryptoLutheran

paul1149 said:

I never said that

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No, another poster did...

Here was their quote:
Just for note here, Joel Osteen does not collect a salary for ministry per himself. He says his fortune is entirely made up of book sales revenue. He collects no salary from Lakewood.

ThatRobGuy said:

No, another poster did...

Here was their quote:
Just for note here, Joel Osteen does not collect a salary for ministry per himself. He says his fortune is entirely made up of book sales revenue. He collects no salary from Lakewood.

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Without his ministry, his book sales would be minimal. It is hard in my mind to separate the two.

ThatRobGuy said:

No, another poster did...

Here was their quote:
Just for note here, Joel Osteen does not collect a salary for ministry per himself. He says his fortune is entirely made up of book sales revenue. He collects no salary from Lakewood.

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I would suggest, then, that the better way to go would have been to respond to him rather than me.

...I don't care for the man and reject his prosperity gospel....but I would ask those who are obviously enjoying the virtual stoning (on twitter, facebook, etc): What have you done to help those in Houston?

If I was him. I would have locked and boarded up my house, church doors and evacuated. I cant blame him on anything. Since we don't really know what's true. As a conservative family told me .There were plenty warnings about this. . These people were idiots for not evacuating earlier.

I don't care what anyone says, I like Joel Osteen. I just think he's a genuinely good person, regardless.

wing2000 said:

...I don't care for the man and reject his prosperity gospel....but I would ask those who are obviously enjoying the virtual stoning (on twitter, facebook, etc): What have you done to help those in Houston?

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Yeah. Joel is human like everyone else. I think his intentions are usually very good.

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN said:

If I was him. I would have locked and boarded up my house, church doors and evacuated. I cant blame him on anything. Since we don't really know what's true. As a conservative family told me .There were plenty warnings about this. . These people were idiots for not evacuating earlier.

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They asked those who refused to leave, to please write their S.S. numbers on their forearms with a sharpie, if that's any kind of indication of a warning... I'd say it is.

...But still, you can't blame people for going with their personal conscience, or those who were just incapable.

ViaCrucis said:

As far as I'm concerned Osteen is just another snake oil salesman pretending to be a member of the clergy. After Joel said there was too much flooding at his church people went to his church and the interior, what was visible from the outside, was pretty dry. Apparently it turns out--from what I've gathered--parts of the parking garage and basement areas were flooded. After social media called him out on it, he then opened the church; and then claimed that the church was never closed in the first place.

-CryptoLutheran

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So thousands of people should have flocked there through potentially inaccessable roads, putting their own lives in danger to do so, to a building that was seeing flooding, during a hurricane that was pouring more rain, which could have flooded the building more, which could have put those thousands of lives at risk even further...???

Not to mention the preparations needed to temporarily house such a large number of people. Perhaps they learned from Katrina and the Superdome issues. Food, beds, clean water, bathroom facilities, power failures, rapes, dangerous weapons, security issues, etc. And they had a day to prepare before Katrina hit, unlike the Compaq Center.

Trapped in the Superdome: Refuge becomes a hellhole

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN said:

If I was him. I would have locked and boarded up my house, church doors and evacuated. I cant blame him on anything. Since we don't really know what's true. As a conservative family told me .There were plenty warnings about this. . These people were idiots for not evacuating earlier.

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No, there really wasn't enough warning. It was less than a week when the forecasts realized that Harvey would hit hurricane strength before hitting the Gulf Coast, and only about two days when the forecasts updated to reflect that Harvey would become a major hurricane. Worse, some of the same roads that people from Houston would take were already congested with the people evacuating further south, where the hurricane actually was going to make a direct hit. Typically, when they make these types of decisions, they've known about the potential of a hurricane hitting for over a week, with the only question where it will hit and how big it will be -- they have days to make a decision on evacuation and three or four days after they give the order before the storm will hit.

Even then, the forecasts still only showed Houston would get 10-20" of rain. Less than two days is not enough time to evacuate a city of 6 million. And there were no predictions that showed the amount of rain Houston actually received. The decision whether or not to evacuate was a tough one, one made on very incomplete information, and is much easier to criticize after the fact.

I'm not going to judge Joel Osteen, particularly if true that the basement was flooding and it was largely inaccessible. That will be between him and God.

To put a different spin on things, Mattress Mack deserves lots of attention. He owns a couple of large furniture stores and has opened them as shelters -- letting people sit, eat, and sleep on his merchandise; and it isn't the first time he's done it. Here is a link to an ABC video about what he, though it does mention some others, is doing.

JackRT said:

Paul made his living as a tent maker. In fact, all rabbis supported themselves.

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But they still received food and goods for their pastoral services. What do you think they did with all the goats, bulls, lambs and birds they sacrificed to God? They certainly ate them. Also, Paul was not a rabbi, but he was a Pharisee. He worked as a tent maker because that was his family's trade. Regarding receiving a living from preaching, I have no problem with it, in moderation. I would suggest that Mr. Osteen share his millions with those in Houston that need it.

Maren said:

No, there really wasn't enough warning. It was less than a week when the forecasts realized that Harvey would hit hurricane strength before hitting the Gulf Coast, and only about two days when the forecasts updated to reflect that Harvey would become a major hurricane. Worse, some of the same roads that people from Houston would take were already congested with the people evacuating further south, where the hurricane actually was going to make a direct hit. Typically, when they make these types of decisions, they've known about the potential of a hurricane hitting for over a week, with the only question where it will hit and how big it will be -- they have days to make a decision on evacuation and three or four days after they give the order before the storm will hit.

Even then, the forecasts still only showed Houston would get 10-20" of rain. Less than two days is not enough time to evacuate a city of 6 million. And there were no predictions that showed the amount of rain Houston actually received. The decision whether or not to evacuate was a tough one, one made on very incomplete information, and is much easier to criticize after the fact.

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Thanks. I tried to tell this relative that they didn't have enough warning. He said they had at least a week, That over 50'' inches of rain would be poured on them. But he's very hard headed.

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN said:

Thanks. I tried to tell this relative that they didn't have enough warning. He said they had at least a week, That over 50'' inches of rain would be poured on them. But he's very hard headed.

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I live in Houston and watched it closely. It was thought Harvey, like most tropical storms that hit the Yucatan, would fizzle out after it hit land. Instead, it crossed the Yucatan peninsula and started to strengthen once it hit the Gulf, which in itself was a surprise. And then it strengthened much quicker than any of the models suggested.

On Tuesday of last week, we knew Harvey was going to hit the Texas Gulf coast, likely somewhere between Corpus Christi and just south of Galveston, and would bring rain. It wasn't until Wednesday morning of last week that the National Hurricane Center started issuing advisories for the Gulf Coast, and at that point Harvey was a Tropical Depression -- not even a Tropical Storm. It wasn't until late Wednesday night or Thursday, the day before landfall, that they upgraded the predictions that Harvey may become a major hurricane before landfall; and they started forecasting 20" of rain for the Houston area. On Friday morning, the day the storm started, the estimates were upgraded, 20-30" were now expected for Houston.

And if he is one of those that is claiming some Democratic conspiracy, that they wanted people in harms way to create a bigger scene of disaster, let him know that in Harris County (the county Houston is in) is run by a Republican, Ed Emmett, who fully agreed with the mayor of Houston that citizens should shelter in place, and not evacuate.

Hidden In Him said:

Yeah. I heard about that. Only I'm not so quick to judge. I'm no fan of how much Osteen collects as "salary" for ministry. I'm quite frankly opposed to anyone taking money for ministry. But I'm not real keen on jumping quickly to get behind the sources cited in the link.

For one, you have this guy, who lists as a "genderqueer."

Then you have what appears to be a misread (maybe deliberate, maybe not) of what Osteen actually stated on Facebook. As one link provided states:

Over the weekend, a message posted to the Lakewood Church Facebook page said that church was "inaccessible due to severe flooding." The post included information on rescue and shelter resources available in other parts of the city.

The article then follows this with:

But critics quickly took to social media questioning whether the building had been significantly impacted by the storm and calling on the church to do more for those affected by the flooding.

Osteen's Facebook post never actually says the building itself was impacted. It says it was inaccessible, meaning you may not have been able to get there due to street flooding during the time he released the post.

I certainly have no idea for sure, and again, I'm no big fan of the example Osteen sets for the body of Christ when it comes to finances. He's certainly no apostle Paul. But I think I'd still give him the benefit of the doubt before the guy above. Like some gays, this guy may have a real vendetta out for anyone proclaiming themself to be Christian.

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Isn't the real point here why isn't the true body of Christ condemning and exposing Osteen rather than leaving it to the world? Osteen is doing and has done big damage to the true testimony of Christ and the Gospel. This is exactly why Paul said their mouths need to be shut and they need to be stopped. But yet we have a pansy compromised form of self serving Christianity that says...oh brother don't judge him...bah. Osteen is a wolf, he fits the description to a T. When the wolf sees danger coming he flees, or in this case closes his doors and hides in his mansion. Anyone attending his church, buying his books, and feeding this wolf is accountable personally for creating him.

Dave-W said:

YOu misread Paul if you think that. Paul said he was an exception, and that all the other apostles made their living from the gospel.

1 Corinthians 9:14
So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel.​

Click to expand...

Paul did not say he was an exception, he said he was the EXAMPLE. BTW, Paul points out that others with him did the same.

Acts 20:

30Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. 32And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified. 33I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel. 34Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me. 35I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.