Critique of Postmillennialism and Amillennialism

Quasar92

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That is an interesting question coming from someone who rejects the literal and instead allegorizes, spiritualizes, twists and stretches the literal time statements of near, soon, at hand, & quickly into meaningless gibberish to suit his own paradigm.


show me from any of my posts that it is anything other than literal interpretation of prophecy, or of any other part of the Bible. Your attack on me personally reveals your inability to field a scripturally based argument supporting your own views in response to mine.


Quasar92
 
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Quasar92

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He is able to discuss it in a civil manner.....but you just refuse to answer his question and are skirting around it.

You said:

He stated:

In response to this you stated:

Which in no way provides a quote from the Nicene Council.

Can you provide a quote from the Nicene Council supporting your claim or not?


Meaningless opinion. Let me see some proof to verify them.


Quasar92
 
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jgr

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show me from any of my posts that it is anything other than literal interpretation of prophecy, or of any other part of the Bible. Your attack on me personally reveals your inability to field a scripturally based argument supporting your own views in response to mine.


Quasar92
Let's start at the beginning with your literal interpretation of Genesis 3:15.
 
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DeaconDean

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I find it funny that in all this discussion, people have ignored that there has already been at least one resurrection. That is, unless you believe that those saints who arose with Jesus, walked, talked, and were witnessed as having been there for 40 days after Jesus arose from the dead, then upon Jesus ascending up into heaven, they went back to their graves to wait for another resurrection.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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DeaconDean

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Postmillennialists teach that Christians will create a Golden Age on earth, gradually defeating the forces of evil. They believe they can help usher in a beautiful peaceful world of Christian dominance, and after that—Jesus Christ will return and establish His eternal kingdom. Considering the intense anti-Christian sentiments throughout the world, which continue to increase day by day, perhaps the Postmillennialists should reconsider their theology. Not only is their theory unrealistic and unattainable, it cannot be substantiated with Scripture.

Those who believe in Postmillennialism call themselves Reconstructionists, and also label it Dominion Theology. They generally do not interpret Scripture literally, which means that their interpretation of Scripture is greatly flawed.

Many who adhere to Postmillennialism teachings also accept certain ideas within Preterism, believing that many of the prophecies of the last days have already been fulfilled. The doctrine of Preterism denies the future literal fulfillment of key prophetic Scriptures—the Rapture, the Tribulation and the Lord’s Second Coming. It also rejects a literal millennial kingdom. The belief that Christians will someday establish a theocracy on earth is an inconceivable idea, especially in light of the growing worldwide hatred toward Bible-believing Christianity.

For the last one hundred years the influence of Christians has waned greatly. However, the power of the major false religions (Roman Catholicism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, New Age Spirituality) have increased significantly along with atheism and humanism. The popular accepted “politically correct” religions will merge into a one-world ecumenical religious system led by the False Prophet during the seven-year Tribulation.

The forces of darkness have strengthened their control over nations all throughout the world. A rapid movement in the last century was initiated, consolidating the power of Satan’s henchmen among governments worldwide—through the creation of numerous political and economic organizations. That intense effort is growing stronger in this century with no signs of slowing. A one-world government, economy and religion under the power of Satan is inevitable—just as the Bible teaches (Revelation chapters 13 and 17).

Amillennialism is a erroneous doctrine which denies that there will be a literal Rapture, a literal seven-year Tribulation and a literal millennial kingdom—over which Jesus Christ the Messiah will rule on earth for 1000-years.

Amillennialists teach that the 1000 years cited six times in Revelation 20 is a symbolic number. In the early 5th century, Augustine, a philosopher and theologian, wrote in his book The City of God that the book of Revelation “is a spiritual allegory.” He saw the millennial kingdom as being primarily the reign of Christ in the hearts of the faithful and that Christ’s reign on earth is spiritual in nature.

Roman Catholicism gleaned a great deal from Augustine’s writings even to the point of sometimes being referred to as the “Father of Roman Catholicism.” His contributions to Catholic doctrine include his belief in the necessity of infant baptism, the perpetual virginity of Mary, and the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. All very disturbing blasphemous teachings. The Roman Catholic Church also claims to be the “kingdom of God on earth” and the “new Israel.” [1]

Amillennialism was adopted by the Roman Catholic Church and also by most of the Reformers who did not reject all of the unsound doctrines of the Church of Rome. A few of the early Church fathers of the first and second centuries believed in Amillennialism, but none of the writings of those few men have survived—so there is no definitive record of their beliefs except for references made in the writings of Justin Martyr (100-165 AD).

The vast majority of the early Church fathers taught that there would be a 1000-year millennial kingdom with Jesus at the helm. Only a small number of them rejected a literal kingdom: Clement of Alexandria, Caius, Origen and Dionysius. The latter two are considered to have been heretics. It was not until Augustine (354-430 A.D.) began to write on his views of eschatology that the belief in a spiritual, and not a literal millennial kingdom took hold.

The skewed teaching of Amillennialism does not make sense; it denies the literal fulfillment of Bible prophecy. It is inconceivable that God would fulfill all the prophecies of the Messiah’s First Coming in a literal manner, and then have most of the prophecies of His Second Coming fulfilled in an allegorical (spiritual) manner.

“Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever” (Hebrews 13:8).

One must ask who is more trustworthy concerning doctrine—the Roman Catholic Church which teaches Amillennialism and other extra-biblical doctrines, or Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, the Old Testament prophets, the Apostles and the early Church fathers?

The Reformers held onto Amillenialism when they split from the Roman Catholic Church just as they retained a number of other false doctrines, such as the teaching of purgatory. Amillennialists deny that the Antichrist will be a real man and they deny a literal Tribulation period. They do this by twisting the passage in Daniel that describes the Antichrist and the Tribulation (Daniel 9:25-27).

Amillennialists argue that the “anointed one, the prince” in verse 25 and the “anointed one” in verse 26 is Jesus (which is correct), but say that the “prince” in verse 26 refers to Titus. They also claim that the word “he” in verse 27 is Jesus who made a covenant with Israel at the beginning of His ministry and broke it after 3½ years. They say the “one that maketh desolate” in verse 27 was Titus.

Such an interpretation is clumsy and implausible. It is impossible by all rules of grammar for the word “he” in verse 27 to refer back to the “anointed one” of verses 25 and 26. The “he” in verse 27 can only refer back to the “prince” of verse 26 which clearly states, “the prince that shall come” (Antichrist).

Another insurmountable problem with this interpretation is that Jesus did not make a covenant with Israel when He began His ministry; Titus did not make a covenant with Israel, and neither did anyone else in the first century A.D. The Antichrist (“the man of sin”) who is prophesied to come in the future will make a covenant with Israel and later break it:

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God” (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 KJV).

“And after the threescore and two weeks shall the anointed one be cut off, and shall have nothing: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and even unto the end shall be war; desolations are determined” (Daniel 9:26 ASV).

“And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one that maketh desolate; and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall wrath be poured out upon the desolate” (Daniel 9:27 ASV).

The Church fathers who taught that there will be a literal millennial kingdom were Clement of Rome, Barnabas, Hermas, Polycarp, Ignatius, Papias, Pothinus, Justin Martyr, Melito, Hegisippus, Tatian, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Hippolytus, Apollinaris, Cyprian, Commodian, Nepos, Coracion, Victorinus, Methodius and Lactantius (Chafer, Lewis Sperry, Systematic Theology, Vol. 4, p. 271-274). At the Nicene Council, “318 bishops from all parts of the earth placed themselves on record” in believing in a literal millennial kingdom (Ibid., p. 275).

Additionally, at the Nicene Council, “318 bishops from all parts of the earth placed themselves on record” in believing in a literal millennial kingdom (Ibid., p. 275). The teaching of the Catholic Church on this matter is wrong. The Old Testament prophets, Jesus Christ, the Apostles and the early Church fathers are right that there will be a millennial kingdom.

Postmillennialists and Amillennialists use the same method of study. They insert into the text a meaning that is simply not there. They make the text say what they want it to say, rather than accepting what the text itself says.

Common sense and careful biblical exegesis cannot support a mythical spiritual utopia (an allegorical millennial kingdom), and the other flawed teachings that Postmellinialists and Amillennialists embrace as truth. When the Rapture takes place, those who hold to those positions will be shocked.

By Kit R, Olsen


Quasar92

And you have only scratched the surface.

You should read the "post-trib" view on the Great Tribulation period. Any "rapture" that might happen, will happen "post-trib".

In one sentence, it does not matter whether your saved or not, you will endure the Great Tribulation, Christians and non-Christians.

The innocent will be punished right along with the guilty.

There is no "bema seat" judgment, there is only the Great White Throne judgment in which not only will your works be tried then, you'll also be judged as to whether or not your name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life.

I have been told this exact same stuff over and over in another thread.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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Erik Nelson

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Postmillennialists teach that Christians will create a Golden Age on earth, gradually defeating the forces of evil. They believe they can help usher in a beautiful peaceful world of Christian dominance, and after that—Jesus Christ will return and establish His eternal kingdom. Considering the intense anti-Christian sentiments throughout the world, which continue to increase day by day, perhaps the Postmillennialists should reconsider their theology. Not only is their theory unrealistic and unattainable, it cannot be substantiated with Scripture.

Those who believe in Postmillennialism call themselves Reconstructionists, and also label it Dominion Theology. They generally do not interpret Scripture literally, which means that their interpretation of Scripture is greatly flawed.

Many who adhere to Postmillennialism teachings also accept certain ideas within Preterism, believing that many of the prophecies of the last days have already been fulfilled. The doctrine of Preterism denies the future literal fulfillment of key prophetic Scriptures—the Rapture, the Tribulation and the Lord’s Second Coming. It also rejects a literal millennial kingdom. The belief that Christians will someday establish a theocracy on earth is an inconceivable idea, especially in light of the growing worldwide hatred toward Bible-believing Christianity.

For the last one hundred years the influence of Christians has waned greatly. However, the power of the major false religions (Roman Catholicism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, New Age Spirituality) have increased significantly along with atheism and humanism. The popular accepted “politically correct” religions will merge into a one-world ecumenical religious system led by the False Prophet during the seven-year Tribulation.

The forces of darkness have strengthened their control over nations all throughout the world. A rapid movement in the last century was initiated, consolidating the power of Satan’s henchmen among governments worldwide—through the creation of numerous political and economic organizations. That intense effort is growing stronger in this century with no signs of slowing. A one-world government, economy and religion under the power of Satan is inevitable—just as the Bible teaches (Revelation chapters 13 and 17).

Amillennialism is a erroneous doctrine which denies that there will be a literal Rapture, a literal seven-year Tribulation and a literal millennial kingdom—over which Jesus Christ the Messiah will rule on earth for 1000-years.

Amillennialists teach that the 1000 years cited six times in Revelation 20 is a symbolic number. In the early 5th century, Augustine, a philosopher and theologian, wrote in his book The City of God that the book of Revelation “is a spiritual allegory.” He saw the millennial kingdom as being primarily the reign of Christ in the hearts of the faithful and that Christ’s reign on earth is spiritual in nature.

Roman Catholicism gleaned a great deal from Augustine’s writings even to the point of sometimes being referred to as the “Father of Roman Catholicism.” His contributions to Catholic doctrine include his belief in the necessity of infant baptism, the perpetual virginity of Mary, and the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. All very disturbing blasphemous teachings. The Roman Catholic Church also claims to be the “kingdom of God on earth” and the “new Israel.” [1]

Amillennialism was adopted by the Roman Catholic Church and also by most of the Reformers who did not reject all of the unsound doctrines of the Church of Rome. A few of the early Church fathers of the first and second centuries believed in Amillennialism, but none of the writings of those few men have survived—so there is no definitive record of their beliefs except for references made in the writings of Justin Martyr (100-165 AD).

The vast majority of the early Church fathers taught that there would be a 1000-year millennial kingdom with Jesus at the helm. Only a small number of them rejected a literal kingdom: Clement of Alexandria, Caius, Origen and Dionysius. The latter two are considered to have been heretics. It was not until Augustine (354-430 A.D.) began to write on his views of eschatology that the belief in a spiritual, and not a literal millennial kingdom took hold.

The skewed teaching of Amillennialism does not make sense; it denies the literal fulfillment of Bible prophecy. It is inconceivable that God would fulfill all the prophecies of the Messiah’s First Coming in a literal manner, and then have most of the prophecies of His Second Coming fulfilled in an allegorical (spiritual) manner.

“Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever” (Hebrews 13:8).

One must ask who is more trustworthy concerning doctrine—the Roman Catholic Church which teaches Amillennialism and other extra-biblical doctrines, or Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, the Old Testament prophets, the Apostles and the early Church fathers?

The Reformers held onto Amillenialism when they split from the Roman Catholic Church just as they retained a number of other false doctrines, such as the teaching of purgatory. Amillennialists deny that the Antichrist will be a real man and they deny a literal Tribulation period. They do this by twisting the passage in Daniel that describes the Antichrist and the Tribulation (Daniel 9:25-27).

Amillennialists argue that the “anointed one, the prince” in verse 25 and the “anointed one” in verse 26 is Jesus (which is correct), but say that the “prince” in verse 26 refers to Titus. They also claim that the word “he” in verse 27 is Jesus who made a covenant with Israel at the beginning of His ministry and broke it after 3½ years. They say the “one that maketh desolate” in verse 27 was Titus.

Such an interpretation is clumsy and implausible. It is impossible by all rules of grammar for the word “he” in verse 27 to refer back to the “anointed one” of verses 25 and 26. The “he” in verse 27 can only refer back to the “prince” of verse 26 which clearly states, “the prince that shall come” (Antichrist).

Another insurmountable problem with this interpretation is that Jesus did not make a covenant with Israel when He began His ministry; Titus did not make a covenant with Israel, and neither did anyone else in the first century A.D. The Antichrist (“the man of sin”) who is prophesied to come in the future will make a covenant with Israel and later break it:

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God” (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 KJV).

“And after the threescore and two weeks shall the anointed one be cut off, and shall have nothing: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and even unto the end shall be war; desolations are determined” (Daniel 9:26 ASV).

“And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one that maketh desolate; and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall wrath be poured out upon the desolate” (Daniel 9:27 ASV).

The Church fathers who taught that there will be a literal millennial kingdom were Clement of Rome, Barnabas, Hermas, Polycarp, Ignatius, Papias, Pothinus, Justin Martyr, Melito, Hegisippus, Tatian, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Hippolytus, Apollinaris, Cyprian, Commodian, Nepos, Coracion, Victorinus, Methodius and Lactantius (Chafer, Lewis Sperry, Systematic Theology, Vol. 4, p. 271-274). At the Nicene Council, “318 bishops from all parts of the earth placed themselves on record” in believing in a literal millennial kingdom (Ibid., p. 275).

Additionally, at the Nicene Council, “318 bishops from all parts of the earth placed themselves on record” in believing in a literal millennial kingdom (Ibid., p. 275). The teaching of the Catholic Church on this matter is wrong. The Old Testament prophets, Jesus Christ, the Apostles and the early Church fathers are right that there will be a millennial kingdom.

Postmillennialists and Amillennialists use the same method of study. They insert into the text a meaning that is simply not there. They make the text say what they want it to say, rather than accepting what the text itself says.

Common sense and careful biblical exegesis cannot support a mythical spiritual utopia (an allegorical millennial kingdom), and the other flawed teachings that Postmellinialists and Amillennialists embrace as truth. When the Rapture takes place, those who hold to those positions will be shocked.

By Kit R, Olsen


Quasar92

I understand, that "Preterism" means "most of Revelations has already occurred (even in the 1st century AD)" -- not that it denies a literal Christian Conqueror (Rev 19) and Millennium (Rev 20), but that it identifies the physical manifestations of the same in (say) Christian emperor Constantine and the Christian Byzantine empire, which already lasted a thousand years (4th-15th centuries AD). Preterism can accommodate a literal interpretation of Scripture... and would (say) identify ours as the literal End Times (Rev 20:7-9)... also explaining the decline of Christianity which you observe.

I think that confusion arises, because many note the qualitative similarities of the "Second Coming of Christ" (Rev 19) and the "First Coming of The LORD" (Rev 20). Quantitatively, however, Christ gets a thousand years, a "Biblical Day". The LORD gets eternity, all time Biblical & otherwise.
 
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BABerean2

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Who are the "two witnesses" in Revelation 11:3-6 ? Moses, Elijah and Enoch are the most likely candidates for Revelation's two witnesses, with most scholars believing the two witnesses are Moses and Elijah.

The Book of Revelation is a book of symbols.

We know the lamb is not an animal, but instead is a symbol of Christ.

We know the dragon is not a giant flying lizard, but instead is a symbol of Satan.

The identity of the two witnesses is revealed by Paul and Christ in the New Testament.


Rev 11:4  These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
 

Rom 11:24  For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? 


Rev 1:20  The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. 


Based on the words of Paul and Christ, the two witnesses are a symbol of the New Covenant Church.


Confirmed by Pastor Carl Gallups of Hickory Hammock Baptist Church:

 
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victorinus

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Based on the words of Paul and Christ, the two witnesses are a symbol of the New Covenant Church.
not exactly -
the olive tree is the state -
the candlestick is the church
-and-
there are two each -
history has two examples of church and state working together
- the byzantine empire
- the holy roman empire
 
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Quasar92

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Let's start at the beginning with your literal interpretation of Genesis 3:15.


I prefer remaining on the subject of this thread. If you want to talk about another subject, then start a new thread.


Quasar92
 
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Adstar

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Postmillennialists teach that Christians will create a Golden Age on earth, gradually defeating the forces of evil. They believe they can help usher in a beautiful peaceful world of Christian dominance, and after that—Jesus Christ will return and establish His eternal kingdom.

Wrong Wrong Wrong.. The writer of this has mixed the doctrine called ""Dominionism"" into Post millennialism .. They are two separate doctrines..

I believe in the 1000 year kingdom of the rule of Jesus and His saints which will start on the day of His second coming.. But i totally reject Dominion-ism theology which is a doctrine that pushes the belief that Christians should seize worldly power and establish the rule of Christianity to prepare the way of the return of Jesus.. This doctrine is totally false and is shown to be false by the prophecies of the end times just before the return of Jesus.. Christianity will not be ruling anything during the end times.. Christians will in fact be being hunted down and beheaded during those times..

So please do not mix up different doctrines and call them one and the same.. They are not..
 
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Quasar92

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And you have only scratched the surface.

You should read the "post-trib" view on the Great Tribulation period. Any "rapture" that might happen, will happen "post-trib".

In one sentence, it does not matter whether your saved or not, you will endure the Great Tribulation, Christians and non-Christians.

The innocent will be punished right along with the guilty.

There is no "bema seat" judgment, there is only the Great White Throne judgment in which not only will your works be tried then, you'll also be judged as to whether or not your name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life.

I have been told this exact same stuff over and over in another thread.

God Bless

Till all are one.


The Scriptural order of end time events refute you:

Scriptural proof for the pre-trib rapture of the Church

The Scriptures are crystal clear where Jesus will meet His Church, in 1 Thess.4:17: "After that, we who are still alive and are left, WILL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. And so we will be with the Lord forever." In the FIRST of His TWO comings, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16, yet to take place, confirming Jn.14:2-3, 28! From where the Church is seen in heaven BEFORE the tribulation begins, in Rev.4:1-2. Where Jesus used John to symbolically represent the Church. Confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8! Where the Church is seen in heaven later, at the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus. While the tribulation is taking place on earth, recorded in Rev.19:7-8. From where Jesus will return to the earth in the SECOND, of His TWO comings, yet to take place, WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in 19:14, confirming Zech.14:4-5 and Acts 1:6; 1:11; 2:29-30 and 15:16! From which the above Scriptures leave no other options!

The difference between the pre-trib rapture of the Church, as delineated above, and the SECOND coming of Jesus are the following facts:

1. Jesus returns to the earth in His second coming, recorded in Zech.14:4-5 and in Acts 1:11.

2. No one meets Jesus in the sky when He returns in His second coming, recorded in Rev.19:14, as they will when He returns for the first time, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16!.

3. Jesus will return from the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in heaven, in His second coming, to the earth, with His Church, recorded in Rev.19:14, He came for in His first coming, in the clouds of the sky, seven years before, recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28, 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.

4. No one returns to the present heaven at Jesus second coming to the earth, because He has come to establish His 1,000 year reign on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, as recorded in Acts 1:6; 2:29-30; 15:16; Zech.6:12-13 described in Ez.40-47 and Rev.20:6. In addition to the present heaven and earth being destroyed and will pass away, as recorded in 2 Pet.3:7 and in Rev.21:1.


Quasar92

r
 
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Quasar92

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The Book of Revelation is a book of symbols.

We know the lamb is not an animal, but instead is a symbol of Christ.

We know the dragon is not a giant flying lizard, but instead is a symbol of Satan.

The identity of the two witnesses is revealed by Paul and Christ in the New Testament.


Rev 11:4  These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
 

Rom 11:24  For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? 


Rev 1:20  The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. 


Based on the words of Paul and Christ, the two witnesses are a symbol of the New Covenant Church.


Confirmed by Pastor Carl Gallups of Hickory Hammock Baptist Church:

I find it funny that in all this discussion, people have ignored that there has already been at least one resurrection. That is, unless you believe that those saints who arose with Jesus, walked, talked, and were witnessed as having been there for 40 days after Jesus arose from the dead, then upon Jesus ascending up into heaven, they went back to their graves to wait for another resurrection.

God Bless

Till all are one.


To avoid confusion, Erik, reference I make to the resurrections, are the only two general resurrections recorded in the Bible.

And may God Bless you too.


Quasar92
 
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BABerean2

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To avoid confusion, Erik, reference I make to the resurrections, are the only two general resurrections recorded in the Bible.

And may God Bless you too.


Quasar92

The two different types of resurrections are found explained by Christ, below.


Joh 5:24  "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. (This is the first resurrection found in John chapter 5. It is spiritual. )


Joh 5:25  Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 



Joh 5:26  For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 



Joh 5:27  and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.

(He is the judge, at the bodily resurrection of the dead.)
 


Joh 5:28  Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 


Joh 5:29  and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
 (This is the second resurrection in John 5. It is of the body.)




Joh 5:30  I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me. 



The timing is found below.

Rev 11:15  Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!" 

Rev 11:16  And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, 

Rev 11:17  saying: "We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, The One who is and who was and who is to come, Because You have taken Your great power and reigned.
 
Rev 11:18  The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth." 


Revelation chapter 12 begins with a review of Church history, including the birth and death of the man-child, who will rule with a rod of iron. Based on Psalm 2, this is Christ.

This proves that the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.
Rather, it is a series of overlapping visions given to the Apostle John.


Confirmation of this principle is found by Christ returning in Revelation 16:15-16 and also returning in chapter 19.


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Quasar92

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The Book of Revelation is a book of symbols.

We know the lamb is not an animal, but instead is a symbol of Christ.

We know the dragon is not a giant flying lizard, but instead is a symbol of Satan.

The identity of the two witnesses is revealed by Paul and Christ in the New Testament.


Rev 11:4  These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
 

Rom 11:24  For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? 


Rev 1:20  The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. 


Based on the words of Paul and Christ, the two witnesses are a symbol of the New Covenant Church.


Confirmed by Pastor Carl Gallups of Hickory Hammock Baptist Church:



We are told in the Scriptures who the two witnesses in Rev.11:3 are. When Jesus is transfigured into His kingdom, in Mt.17:1-4, it is Moses and Elijah who appear with Him, as follows:


Mt.17: "1After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves.2There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.

4Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.”



>>>Who are the "two witnesses" in Revelation 11:3-6? Moses, Elijah and Enoch are the most likely candidates for Revelation's two witnesses, with most scholars believing the two witnesses are Moses and Elijah. In Matthew 17, when Jesus took Peter, James, and John to the mount and was transfigured in front of them, Moses and Elijah appeared with Him. Enoch was not there. The transfiguration can be seen as a picture of the coming of the two witnesses--Moses and Elijah.

Malachi 4:5 predicts that Elijah will come as one of the two witnesses: "See I will send you the prophet Elijah before the great and dreadful day of the Lord comes." Elijah was taken up into heaven by a whirlwind and chariot of fire (see 2 Kings 2:9-11); he did not physically die. Likewise, Moses, did not die a normal death. The Bible tells us that God preserved Moses' body (see Deuteronomy 34:5,6; Jude 9). The accounts of their deaths further corroborate the selection of Moses and Elijah as the two witnesses.

The powers given these two witnesses in Revelation 11:3-6, are the very same ones they were each given during their lifetime. The power to shut up the sky so it didn't rain was given to Elijah in 1 Kings 17:1. Moses was given the power to turn water into blood, in Exodus 7:17.<<<

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Quasar92

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Wrong Wrong Wrong.. The writer of this has mixed the doctrine called ""Dominionism"" into Post millennialism .. They are two separate doctrines..

I believe in the 1000 year kingdom of the rule of Jesus and His saints which will start on the day of His second coming.. But i totally reject Dominion-ism theology which is a doctrine that pushes the belief that Christians should seize worldly power and establish the rule of Christianity to prepare the way of the return of Jesus.. This doctrine is totally false and is shown to be false by the prophecies of the end times just before the return of Jesus.. Christianity will not be ruling anything during the end times.. Christians will in fact be being hunted down and beheaded during those times..

So please do not mix up different doctrines and call them one and the same.. They are not..


Postmillennialism from another source:

What is postmillennialism?

Postmillennialism is an interpretation of Revelation chapter 20 which sees Christ's second coming as occurring after the “millennium,” a golden age or era of Christian prosperity and dominance. The term includes several similar views of the end times, and it stands in contrast to premillennialism (the view that Christ’s second coming will occur prior to His millennial kingdom and that the millennial kingdom is a literal 1000-year reign) and, to a lesser extent, amillennialism (no literal millennium).

Postmillennialism is the belief that Christ returns after a period of time, but not necessarily a literal 1000 years. Those who hold this view do not interpret unfulfilled prophecy using a normal, literal method. They believe that Revelation 20:4-6 should not be taken literally. They believe that “1000 years” simply means “a long period of time.” Furthermore, the prefix “post-” in “postmillennialism” denotes the view that Christ will return after Christians (not Christ Himself) have established the kingdom on this earth.

Those who hold to postmillennialism believe that this world will become better and better—all evidence to the contrary notwithstanding—with the entire world eventually becoming “Christianized.” After this happens, Christ will return. However, this is not the view of the world in the end times that Scripture presents. From the book of Revelation, it is easy to see that the world will be a terrible place during that future time. Also, in 2 Timothy 3:1-7, Paul describes the last days as “terrible times.”

Those who hold to postmillennialism use a non-literal method of interpreting unfulfilled prophecy, assigning their own meanings to words. The problem with this is that when someone starts assigning meanings to words other than their normal meaning, a person can decide that a word, phrase, or sentence means anything he wants it to mean. All objectivity concerning the meaning of words is lost. When words lose their meaning, communication ceases. However, this is not how God has intended for language and communication to be. God communicates to us through His written word, with objective meanings to words, so that ideas and thoughts can be communicated.

A normal, literal interpretation of Scripture rejects postmillennialism and holds to a normal interpretation of all Scripture, including unfulfilled prophecy. We have hundreds of examples in Scripture of prophecies being fulfilled. Take, for example, the prophecies concerning Christ in the Old Testament. Those prophecies were fulfilled literally. Consider the virgin birth of Christ (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23). Consider His death for our sins (Isaiah 53:4-9; 1 Peter 2:24). These prophecies were fulfilled literally, and that is reason enough to assume that God will continue in the future to literally fulfill His Word. Postmillennialism fails in that it interprets Bible prophecy subjectively and holds that the millennial kingdom will be established by the church, not by Christ Himself.

Recommended Resource: The Moody Handbook of Theology by Paul Enns

Source: gotquestions.org


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The two different types of resurrections are found explained by Christ, below.


Joh 5:24  "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. (This is the first resurrection found in John chapter 5. It is spiritual. )


Joh 5:25  Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 



Joh 5:26  For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 



Joh 5:27  and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.

(He is the judge, at the bodily resurrection of the dead.)
 


Joh 5:28  Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 


Joh 5:29  and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
 (This is the second resurrection in John 5. It is of the body.)




Joh 5:30  I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me. 



The timing is found below.

Rev 11:15  Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!" 

Rev 11:16  And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, 

Rev 11:17  saying: "We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, The One who is and who was and who is to come, Because You have taken Your great power and reigned.
 
Rev 11:18  The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth." 


Revelation chapter 12 begins with a review of Church history, including the birth and death of the man-child, who will rule with a rod of iron. Based on Psalm 2, this is Christ.

This proves that the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.
Rather, it is a series of overlapping visions given to the Apostle John.


Confirmation of this principle is found by Christ returning in Revelation 16:15-16 and also returning in chapter 19.


.


There is no such thing as spiritual resurrections. Nor are you about to concoct any from the Scriptures! If that were so, every believer Jesus RAISED to heaven spiritually, in 2 Cor.5:6-8, since their physical death, from Pentecost to the present day, would be a spiritual resurrection, numbering in the multi millions!

A resurrection is of a dead physical body, raised from the grave. As such, there is only ONE kind of resurrection referred yo in the Bible; a physical one.


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There is no such thing as spiritual resurrections.

Joh 5:24  "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 


When a person passes from death to life, what would you call it?

John 5:24
(CJB)  Yes, indeed! I tell you that whoever hears what I am saying and trusts the One who sent me has eternal life -- that is, he will not come up for judgment but has already crossed over from death to life!

(ESV)  Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

(Geneva)  Verely, verely I say vnto you, he that heareth my worde, and beleeueth him that sent me, hath euerlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but hath passed from death vnto life.

(GW)  I can guarantee this truth: Those who listen to what I say and believe in the one who sent me will have eternal life. They won't be judged because they have already passed from death to life.

(LITV-TSP)  Truly, truly, I say to you, the one who hears My word, and believes the One who has sent Me, has everlasting life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

(KJV)  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

(KJV+)  Verily,G281 verily,G281 I sayG3004 unto you,G5213 (G3754) He that hearethG191 myG3450 word,G3056 andG2532 believethG4100 on him that sentG3992 me,G3165 hathG2192 everlastingG166 life,G2222 andG2532 shall notG3756 comeG2064 intoG1519 condemnation;G2920 butG235 is passedG3327 fromG1537 deathG2288 untoG1519 life.G2222


(NKJV)  "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

(YLT)  'Verily, verily, I say to you—He who is hearing my word, and is believing Him who sent me, hath life age-during, and to judgment he doth not come, but hath passed out of the death to the life.


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