Sons of the Devil Believe in Jesus

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 28, 2017

~Cassia~ said:
Who's end shall be according to their works ... works are what is to be burnt. 1 Corinthians 3:13-15 .
They are those who do not know that they are naked, poor and blind.

Of course you mean spiritually blind?

Mat 15:14
let them alone, guides they are -- blind of blind;
and if blind may guide blind, both into a ditch shall fall.'

Mat 23:
15
'Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
16
'Woe to you, blind guides! who are saying, 'Whoever may swear by the Sanctuary, it is nothing,
but whoever may swear by the gold of the Sanctuary -- is debtor!'

Reve 3:17 is the only verse in the bible that uses all 3 of those words and I view it symbolizing the corrupt Jewish Priesthood and Rulers that Jesus railed against in the NT....

Rev 3:17
“Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing'—
and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked—

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

LUKE 16:19
"There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day."

.....................................................

thetruth0 · Aug 28, 2017

-V- said:
No, they don't contradict. God loves everyone, even His enemies. And I don't see where you get Satan having salvation from.

you can't be serious. I just showed you how they contradict, unbelievable. You refuse to see the truth.

Citizen of the Kingdom · Aug 28, 2017

LittleLambofJesus said:
Of course you mean spiritually blind?

Mat 15:14
let them alone, guides they are -- blind of blind;
and if blind may guide blind, both into a ditch shall fall.'

Mat 23:
15
'Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
16
'Woe to you, blind guides! who are saying, 'Whoever may swear by the Sanctuary, it is nothing,
but whoever may swear by the gold of the Sanctuary -- is debtor!'

Reve 3:17 is the only verse in the bible that uses all 3 of those words and I view it symbolizing the corrupt Jewish Priesthood and Rulers that Jesus railed against in the NT....

Rev 3:17
“Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing'—
and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked—

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

LUKE 16:19
"There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day."

.....................................................

Yes, spiritually blind ... not at all like the poor puppy in your siggy

In Philadelphia the authority is in the hands of the Holy Spirit but in Laodocea the authority is in the hands of the layman. - laity custom/opinions. There the opinion of the majority rules. Whereas brotherly love, in the context of spiritual truth, has only truth according to the substance beyond the shadow.

The fraternity of believers in Philadelphia are one in Christ. Laodocea leaves Christ outside. Opening the door to fellowship with Him is a great experience. I think it's one that all overcomers experience.

I don't think anyone but a Philadephian can backslide to a Laodocean. Most are in a Sardis state. Just the appearance of life, but still under a pastorial system. Philadelphia was the only one that could be considered 'hot'rather than cold or lukewarm as are the \Laodoceans.

Revelation 3:20-21
Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.
To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.

No matter what the situation of the church the main thing that Rev 2-3 points to is Who Christ is. It's only in knowing Him that the remedy for any church situation exists. That is what the Revelation to the churches is and without it the church, corporately and individually, will not stand.

-V- · Aug 28, 2017

thetruth0 said:
you can't be serious. I just showed you how they contradict, unbelievable. You refuse to see the truth.

You gave YOUR INTERPRETATION which makes them contradictory. This supposed "contradiction" seems to be based on nothing than your idea that God does not love His enemies. I don't see any support of such an idea, particularly in light of Jesus' teaching of Matthew 5:44, for example, or that God *is* love (1 John 4:8, 1 John 4:16). If God *is* love, then by definition, He loves everyone.

thetruth0 · Aug 28, 2017

-V- said:
You gave YOUR INTERPRETATION which makes them contradictory. This supposed "contradiction" seems to be based on nothing than your idea that God does not love His enemies. I don't see any support of such an idea, particularly in light of Jesus' teaching of Matthew 5:44, for example, or that God *is* love (1 John 4:8, 1 John 4:16). If God *is* love, then by definition, He loves everyone.

GOD is not love. HE loves. Love is a virtue, are you therefore saying that GOD is a Virtue? HE is the Supreme Spirit Being, who loves.

Now you are presupposing based on your interpretation of what you think. I didn't give you an opinion, i gave you the scriptures. Tell me, why did Apostle James say that Friendship with the world is enmity with GOD, if GOD so loved the world. Both Apostles were taught and walked with the one true GOD, yet both are saying different things.

Then you have the parable of the wheats and the tares, which reveals that there is those which were sown while the father was away. Next we have the words of Isaiah the Prophet which were repeated by the GOD in HIS incarnate Manifestation to reveal that the Pharisees were the ones which were hearing and did not understand with their hearts, or they would be converted and HE would heal them. Next we have John 8:44 where the GOD told them specifically that they are of their father the devil. Which is why i said, unless you think salvation is for the devil too, then how can those which were called his children be saved?

There is a clear separation between those which are saved, and those which are unsaved and cannot be saved because the word does not abide in them. Why? why does the Word not abide in them if salvation is for the world? This was said even before the crucifixion of the GOD in HIS incarnate manifestation, so before the atonement. Thus, if it is only because the atonement has been fulfilled, then why did HE single out tares over wheats before hand?

Furthermore, HE speaks of HIS elect. My Sheep know my voice and they follow me. Revealing that there is the people which are not HIS sheep. Those people are tares.

This proves that John 3:16 is not written according to what Apostle John Actually said, because the people that put the bible together, are also the same people which killed the apostles, hijacked the church and began preaching a counterfeit Gospel.

-V- · Aug 28, 2017

thetruth0 said:
GOD is not love. HE loves. Love is a virtue, are you therefore saying that GOD is a Virtue? HE is the Supreme Spirit Being, who loves.
Now you are presupposing based on your interpretation of what you think.

John disagrees, as he says twice flat out, "GOD IS LOVE". I'll take John's word over yours.

Funny how YOU are supposedly just "giving the Scriptures", and I'M just giving my interpretation. But YOU are the one claiming John is wrong, as I simply quoted what he wrote twice, "God is love".

This proves that John 3:16 is not written according to what Apostle John Actually said, because the people that put the bible together, are also the same people which killed the apostles, hijacked the church and began preaching a counterfeit Gospel.

LOL! I'll never understand how there's people who claim to be Christians, but then argue so emphatically for the Bible (the supposed basis of their faith) being consistently wrong about this or that, being a forgery, full of errors, a counterfeit, just the words of men, etc.

If you're going to start from a position that the Bible is so errant, then we really have completely dissimilar faiths and religions; too dissimilar to have a meaningful conversation on this topic. You have a nice day.

Wordkeeper · Aug 28, 2017

-V- said:
So, John 3:16 is nonsense?

Whoever stays loyal to Him will not perish but have everlasting life.

You can be loyal to persons.

You can believe (have cognitive agreement) with facts.

-V- · Aug 28, 2017

Wordkeeper said:
Whoever stays loyal to Him will not perish but have everlasting life.

That's nice. But John says those who believe in Him will have everlasting life. You seem to claim that such an idea - believing in someone, as John wrote - is nonsense.

Wordkeeper · Aug 28, 2017

-V- said:
That's nice. But John says those who believe in Him will have everlasting life. You seem to claim that such an idea - believing in someone, as John wrote - is nonsense.

Find me a definition of believe related to persons.

-V- · Aug 28, 2017

Wordkeeper said:
Find me a definition of believe related to persons.

You're dodging. You quoted a source claiming that believing in a person is "nonsense". John says that those who "believe in [Jesus]" will be saved. Either John is nonsense, or your source's claim is errant.

Wordkeeper · Aug 28, 2017

-V- said:
You're dodging. You quoted a source claiming that believing in a person is "nonsense". John says that those who "believe in [Jesus]" will be saved. Either John is nonsense, or your source's claim is errant.

Actually John wrote:

Οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν κόσμον, ὥστε τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ ἔδωκεν, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται, ἀλλ’ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον.

Pistis in the Ancient Near East meant loyalty.

Quote
Perhaps the single greatest issue of theology in the present day is our understanding of “faith”. I will argue here that “loyalty” is the best translation of it and that, as such, it is totally inseparable from works and essentially means the same thing.

Outside of the Bible, what is the Greek word for faith (pistis) used to mean? We're in luck... the first century Jewish historian Josephus uses it in his writings.

In his autobiography, Jospehus describes a time when he was the leader of a small army, and another group had tried to kill him. Josephus captures the enemy leader and says to him “repent and have faith in me hereafter” (Life 110). What Josephus clearly means by this is “become part of my army, and obey my commands.”

Later he speaks of a city that had turned against him, which after he has forced them into submission again, he rebukes them for revolting “from their faith in me” (Life 167). Again, he's speaking of their loyalty to him.

What exactly is the quality that Josephus is getting at? Think about his usage of the word in an army and the concept of soldiers following their leader. What is the relationship between a soldier and their commanding officer like? The solider is loyal and trusting, he follows his superiors' commands, when the captain leads the charge into battle the soldier is right there behind him following in his footsteps. The concept is one of “followingness”, obedience to orders, loyalty, faithfulness, allegiance etc. English is really missing a word to describe this quality of a soldier... the quality of “followingness”.

Theo Geek: The Meaning of Faith

-V- · Aug 28, 2017

Wordkeeper said:
Actually John wrote:

Οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν κόσμον, ὥστε τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ ἔδωκεν, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται, ἀλλ’ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον.

Pistis in the Ancient Near East meant loyalty.

Ok, so things like lexicons:
Genesis 1:1 (KJV)
and basically every translation ever* are all wrong?

* at Biblegateway.com , for example, not a single one of their 56 English translations says "whoever is loyal" at John 3:16

Wordkeeper · Aug 28, 2017

-V- said:
Ok, so things like lexicons:
Genesis 1:1 (KJV)
and basically every translation ever* are all wrong?

* at Biblegateway.com , for example, not a single one of their 56 English translations says "whoever is loyal" at John 3:16

Andrew, TheoGeek, is a well respected lexicographer. Lexicons are word lists recording the usage of a word both in Biblical and secular texts. The Josephus quotes show the usage in Jesus's time, as they were contemporaries.

Quote
In the Gospel of John, Jesus says "Believe in me" often. In the other gospels he doesn't do this. What's going on?

Firstly, I wish to make the point once again that pistis "believe" ought to be rendered "faithful" or similar, and has notions of allegiance and faithfulness rather than intellectual belief. Further evidence on this subject has recently come to my attention: The second century AD writer Arrian of Nicomedia, twice writes in his biography of Alexander the Great that certain people remained "pistis" to Darius (Darius was their king), and the Loeb English translation renders this "loyal to Darius", which is clearly what is meant in the context. (Anabasis III.21.4 & III.23.7)

How are we to make sense of "be loyal to me" in the mouth of Jesus? Why is it in John and not the other gospels? The answer I think, is that it is in the other gospels, it's simply worded slightly differently: as "follow me".

One of the things I think Jesus was intentionally doing during his ministry was forming a movement/group/sect/cult around himself. He and his disciples recruited followers into this movement and we see in the gospels in the form of Jesus asking people to "follow me".

So why does John have "be loyal to me" rather than "follow me"? Part of the answer is probably that Jesus spoke in Aramaic and the gospels are written in Greek, and the gospel authors used slightly different Greek words in their translation.

However, I would go further and suggest that here the Gospel of John is being anachronistic. ("Anachronistic" means not keeping proper account of time differences, eg reading an ancient text with modern assumptions, importing your own meanings into an ancient writing etc) Jesus in his own day would have want people to physically follow him around and/or actually join a movement physically led by him. For later Christians this would obviously be impossible. Their equivalent of "following" Jesus was to be loyal to his name and cause. They could not physically follow him, but they could be loyal, committed and faithful to him. And so, the writer of John, understanding this as what Jesus would have said to the Christians of the writer's time, records Jesus as saying "be loyal to me" rather than "follow me" to those around him. This is a fairly basic anachronism, which the Gospel of John is recognised to be particularly prone to.

Theo Geek: "Believe in me" in the Gospel of John

Blade · Aug 28, 2017

"If you abide in my word"...this is what He was telling those that believed Him. The ones He was just talking to. Then about "slave" that has no part in the family. But.. if the Son..sets you free..you are free indeed...then on and on ..about being Abrahams seed..which was true.

It says above.. "they didnt understand Him.. then we keep reading.. to THOSE that believed. Believed what? What He was just talking about. I think.. some are making this into something its not. Any sacrifice done before Jesus did what? Nothing but cover sin. Never took away did away with. ALL was still there.

But to WHOM was He talking to? Your trying to kill me...they were of their father the devil. Those were the ones He was talking to about being of there father the devil.. not the ones that believed on Him. Yet.. all left Him when He was taken and went to the Cross.

Oseas · Aug 28, 2017

~Cassia~ said:
Who's end shall be according to their works ... works are what is to be burnt. 1 Corinthians 3:13-15 . They are those who do not know that they are naked, poor and blind.

What I say unto you, I say unto all.

Confirming what was stated in my previous message, I call Rev. 22:v.15 : For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. (Dogs? Who are them? Isaiah 56:10to12 KJV reveals who are them: 10 His watchmen are BLIND: they are all IGNORANT, they are all dumb DOGS, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber. 11 Yea, they are greedy DOGS which can never have enough, and THEY ARE SHEPHERDS/PASTORS that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter. 12 Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant. (Yeah, the DOGS will be cast out to be burn with everlasting fire. THE EVERLASTING SPIRIT OF GOD ALMIGHTY IS A DEVOURING FIRE.

The disciples of JESUS came unto Him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. JESUS answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the Devil; The enemy that sowed them is the Devil; the harvest is the END OF THE WORLD; and the REAPERS are the angels. (Angels? By the way, John the Baptist was an angel, He was born by prophecy: Isaiah 40:3to8 and Malachi 4:5-6) As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the END OF THE WORLD. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them INTO A FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

The quesions is: Who among us will dwell with the devouring fire? who among us will dwell with everlasting burnings?The prophet Isaiah reveals who will dwell with the devouring fire. Is.33:14to24

Sons of the Devil Believe in Jesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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