Do you want to see Intelligent Design taught in universities and schools?

DennisTate · Aug 26, 2017

SBC said:
Just in brief - seems to me people of any age who is contemplating, leaning toward, dwelling on suicide should seek aid from someone skilled in dealing with such issues.
Personally I do not believe that is a School Teacher.

Suicide is simply a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Anger, is a perfectly normal behavior, stretched out of proportion, as if, it is abnormal.

Pharmaceutical Drugs, in the hands of the general population, is IMO are one of the WORST guarded items, by the one, they are issued to.

Street drugs - are compounds of death - is all a person needs to know about them.
And from there, a person can choose to take them or not. There are PRISON sentences for a person choosing to engage in such participation - WHY?

Alcohol ? Same thing. I could care less how much or how little a person drinks, or what they are doing while they drink.

Same as I do not care how much a person eats, or sleeps, or dances, or plays video games....

I am baffled why so many Americans call themselves FREE, while continuously soliciting the government to make Laws AGAINST Freedom.

God Bless,
SBC

Actually... this basic idea is really simple enough that parents could teach this at home in such a way that Atheistic Evolutionary Theory could be largely cancelled out at home.

AV1611VET · Aug 26, 2017

lesliedellow said:
The KJV borrowed the word Lucifer from the Latin Valuate version of the Bible,

And who did John Wycliffe borrow it from?

Isaiah 14:12 [Wycliffe Bible] A! Lucifer, that risedest early, how fellest thou down from heaven; thou that woundedest folks, felledest down (al)together into [the] earth. (O! Lucifer, who risedest up early, how thou hast fallen down from heaven; thou who hast wounded the nations, fell down to the ground.)

SBC · Aug 26, 2017

DennisTate said:
Actually... this basic idea is really simple enough that parents could teach this at home in such a way that Atheistic Evolutionary Theory could be largely cancelled out at home.

Agree - However fewer and fewer parents are actually setting their own childs FOUNDATION, which in fact is a Primary purpose God set the stewardship of children to the responsibility of the parents.

God Bless,
SBC

BNR32FAN · Aug 26, 2017

DennisTate said:
Good point... but you see I actually do believe that God in a real sense "evolved" and got better and better and better at creation over infinite time in the past.

And yes... I believe that Adam and Eve were created....... probably millions of years after the Covering Cherub known to Christians as Lucifer.

Are you implying is that He was not perfect to begin with? He can't be all knowing if He learned something new. Are you suggesting the bible is incorrect? That would be suggesting it isn't inspired by God.

lesliedellow · Aug 27, 2017

AV1611VET said:
And who did John Wycliffe borrow it from?

The same place.

DennisTate · Aug 27, 2017

SBC said:
Agree - However fewer and fewer parents are actually setting their own childs FOUNDATION, which in fact is a Primary purpose God set the stewardship of children to the responsibility of the parents.

God Bless,
SBC

That is an excellent question that does get to the core of the controversy.... .No.... .what I am suggesting is that the Word / Logos God of Abraham is so powerful... that God can actually give genuine freedom of choice both to humans....... and apparently to Covering Cherubs....... as well as the one third of the angels led by that former Covering Cherub.

That freedom of choice... includes the freedom to decide to disobey God and go off into relative darkness..... relative lack of light / truth / love.....

Apparently from what I have been able to read Covering Cherub Lucifer decided to go into darkness perhaps quite some time before the creation of Adam and Eve..... I am of the firm belief that a massive falling away occurred even before Genesis chapter 1......

The alternative to God being able to give angels and humans the genuine freedom to disobey and rebel........ is the highly repulsive possibility that God created Lucifer to become Satan????? God's rival????????????

I do not feel comfortable with that idea at all...........

My strong suspicion is that the fall of Covering Cherub Lucifer probably did not happen practically over night but....... I suspect that the change in the nature of pre-historic animals shows the progress over time of how Lucifer and his fallen angels became more and more and more competitive...... and predatory?!

DennisTate · Aug 27, 2017

I personally am of the belief that the visionary dream given to Pastor Rick Joyner back in 1995 was from God....... and gives us clues that we need at this time to do what must be done in these latter days.... There are some astonishing statements about Satan in his book The Vision. (The Vision is two books, The Final Quest and The Call, together).

The Call Rick Joyner

......“Satan has boasted since the cross that Jesus could redeem men but could not change them. During the times of the greatest darkness and evil that are about to come, His people will stand as a testimony for all time that He not only redeemed His people from sin, but He also removed sin from them. Through them, He will remove sin from the whole earth. He will now display to the whole creation the power of His new creation. He did not come just to forgive sin, but to save mankind from sin, and He is returning for a people who are without stain from the world. This will come to pass in the most difficult of times. “I was created to love the Lord and to love the earth, as were all people. I have loathed the sight of the world’s rivers becoming sewers. Even more have I loathed the sight of what has happened to the human mind. The philosophies of the human mind now filling the streams of human thought are as loathsome as the sewage filling the rivers. But the rivers of human thought will one day be pure again, just as the rivers of the earth. By this, for all time to come, it will be proven that good is stronger than evil.

“The Lord did not go to the cross just to redeem, but also to restore. He walked the earth as a man to show mankind how to live. He will now reveal Himself through His chosen ones to show them who they were created to be. This demonstration will not just come through power, but through love. He will give you power because He is all powerful, and power is also a revelation of Him. Even so, He uses His power because of love and so must you. Even His judgments come because of love. When you send them forth, it must be because of love. Even His final judgment of the earth will be His final mercy.”

I looked at Adam, Abel, Lot and Jonah as they stood together. I knew that it would take forever to understand the depths of the revelation of the great gospel of God that each of their lives represented. Adam’s disobedience made the way for Abel’s obedience, whose blood still speaks as a harbinger of salvation. Righteous Lot could not save a city, while an unrighteous Jonah could. Like the four gospels, there seemed to be no end to the understanding that could be learned from them. This, too, was my call.

The Door
(Pastor Rick Joyner, The Call)

I am of the belief that the freedom of ancient Patriarchs, martyr's and Prophets being able to give a message in a visionary dream to Pastor Rick Joyner indicates that we have entered what Jews term the Age of Messiah / Moshiach when:

Isaiah 30:20, 21

"And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall see thy teachers:

"And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left."

SBC · Aug 27, 2017

DennisTate said:
That is an excellent question that does get to the core of the controversy.... .No.... .what I am suggesting is that the Word / Logos God of Abraham is so powerful... that God can actually give genuine freedom of choice both to humans....... and apparently to Covering Cherubs....... as well as the one third of the angels led by that former Covering Cherub.

That freedom of choice... includes the freedom to decide to disobey God and go off into relative darkness..... relative lack of light / truth / love.....

Agree.

Apparently from what I have been able to read Covering Cherub Lucifer decided to go into darkness perhaps quite some time before the creation of Adam and Eve..... I am of the firm belief that a massive falling away occurred even before Genesis chapter 1......

Agree. The fall of Lucifer, was during the creation of the earth. At First, He being elated and then He being ( almost jealous it seems ), thinking He was "BEST" equipped to be, and should be the Supreme ruler over the earth.

The alternative to God being able to give angels and humans the genuine freedom to disobey and rebel........ is the highly repulsive possibility that God created Lucifer to become Satan????? God's rival????????????

Without an alternative ie; opposite to Love and Goodness; there is no option of choice.

I do not feel comfortable with that idea at all...........

God created the knowledge of what IS GOOD, and what IS EVIL.
Created "things" get to make their own choices of which to embrace.

My strong suspicion is that the fall of Covering Cherub Lucifer probably did not happen practically over night but....... I suspect that the change in the nature of pre-historic animals shows the progress over time of how Lucifer and his fallen angels became more and more and more competitive...... and predatory?!

Concerning Lucifer - I would say, like "overnight", being a small time-frame. Since if you trust the creation of the earth was One day; and Lucifer was shouting "oooh yeah", and before it was complete, Lucifer was already thinking how what he was seeing, "he should Control".

My Perspective concerning choice is:
God created holy things - ie angels and their estate - ie heaven
God created good things - mankind and their estate - ie earth

And that what God created "holy and good" - He absolutely LOVES.

And a LOVE is not TRUE LOVE - if it is FORCED, without an option of the created "thing" itself to choose to LOVE, or choose to REJECT LOVE of God and REJECT LOVING God.

God does not want to receive from His creations; a superficial forced LOVE.
There can be NO TRUE LOVE given to God, if it IS forced, thus Every created angel and Every created man MUST decide for themselves IF and What they choose to LOVE or NOT.

A created thing (angel or mankind) WITHOUT knowledge of what IS Holy and what IS Good, and what IS Unholy and what IS not good - has not the knowledge necessary to make an informed choice.

The Lesson is;
God exclusively is Supreme Power.
Any created being; angel or mankind, receives the extent of "their" power, from God.

And what that individual created being DOES with the Power given him from God; IS a highly determining factor; IF they are USING that Power to glorify and exalt God or glorify and exalt themselves.

And the Lesson repeatedly reveals throughout history -
No "thing" (angel or mankind) has Power without it being given them but via God.
No "thing" (angel or mankind) is sustained without Power.

And no matter how many times "mankind" is "given or takes credit" for its Strength, it is always because of God providing the Power.

And when "mankind" rejects giving the "credit" to God - "mankind" experiences a "downfall", a defeat, a hardship, an effect of hardships, toil, worry, and ultimately; separation from God,

God Bless,
SBC

DennisTate · Aug 27, 2017

SBC said:
Agree.

Agree. The fall of Lucifer, was during the creation of the earth. At First, He being elated and then He being ( almost jealous it seems ), thinking He was "BEST" equipped to be, and should be the Supreme ruler over the earth.

Without an alternative ie; opposite to Love and Goodness; there is no option of choice.

God created the knowledge of what IS GOOD, and what IS EVIL.
Created "things" get to make their own choices of which to embrace.

Concerning Lucifer - I would say, like "overnight", being a small time-frame. Since if you trust the creation of the earth was One day; and Lucifer was shouting "oooh yeah", and before it was complete, Lucifer was already thinking how what he was seeing, "he should Control".

My Perspective concerning choice is:
God created holy things - ie angels and their estate - ie heaven
God created good things - mankind and their estate - ie earth

And that what God created "holy and good" - He absolutely LOVES.

And a LOVE is not TRUE LOVE - if it is FORCED, without an option of the created "thing" itself to choose to LOVE, or choose to REJECT LOVE of God and REJECT LOVING God.

God does not want to receive from His creations; a superficial forced LOVE.
There can be NO TRUE LOVE given to God, if it IS forced, thus Every created angel and Every created man MUST decide for themselves IF and What they choose to LOVE or NOT.

A created thing (angel or mankind) WITHOUT knowledge of what IS Holy and what IS Good, and what IS Unholy and what IS not good - has not the knowledge necessary to make an informed choice.

The Lesson is;
God exclusively is Supreme Power.
Any created being; angel or mankind, receives the extent of "their" power, from God.

And what that individual created being DOES with the Power given him from God; IS a highly determining factor; IF they are USING that Power to glorify and exalt God or glorify and exalt themselves.

And the Lesson repeatedly reveals throughout history -
No "thing" (angel or mankind) has Power without it being given them but via God.
No "thing" (angel or mankind) is sustained without Power.

And no matter how many times "mankind" is "given or takes credit" for its Strength, it is always because of God providing the Power.

And when "mankind" rejects giving the "credit" to God - "mankind" experiences a "downfall", a defeat, a hardship, an effect of hardships, toil, worry, and ultimately; separation from God,

God Bless,
SBC

Wow!

Great answer!

I have to run to church but I wanted to leave you with a link to a discussion where I get into my theory that one of the things that God had in mind at the creation of Adam and Eve.... .was the restoration of as many fallen angels as possibly can be restored.........
I believe that Leviticus 16:10 gives the name for the fallen, son of G-d / King of the Watchers, Azazel.... .who...... similar to the King of Nineveh I suspect..... or to General Abner.... or to the Apostle Paul is destined to be the first major fallen angel to return to God with his whole heart.......

and divide the kingdom of Satan.....

and cause it to FALL?!?!

(I would not blame anybody for thinking my theory is overly optimistic)?!

Yom Kippur/The Rapture connection?!

My dad, Robert Tate died on January 1, 1990. He had NOT given his heart to Rabbi Jesus/Yahushua so far as I knew.

Around that time I ran into the near death experience accounts through an article in Psychology Today. As I read several books by Dr. Raymond Moody I went into something of a philosophical/theological crisis as I encountered evidence that the "soul sleep" doctrine that I had been taught by evangelist Garner Ted Armstrong and his dad had almost certainly been terribly in error!

I had been fasting on Yom Kippur since the late 1970's and I had always wondered what this verse could possibly mean:

Leviticus 16:10RSV)

"but the goat on which the lot fell for Aza'zel shall be presented alive before the LORD to make atonement over it, that it may be sent away into the wilderness to Aza'zel."(Leviticus 16:10RSV)

In a nutshell I have came to strongly suspect that Azazel is the fallen angel who will be somewhat like General Abner who brought the ten tribes over to King David or to Rav Shaul/Paul who repented of persecuting Christians and followers of God.

I suspect that when the fallen angel Azazel returns to the God of Abraham with his whole heart...when Yom Kippur is completely fulfilled....then a major step will have been taken toward the ushering in of a truly new era of worldwide peace where even the eating habits of wild animals like lions will be altered!

Matthew 12)

"And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?"

CrystalDragon · Aug 27, 2017

BNR32FAN said:
Are you implying is that He was not perfect to begin with? He can't be all knowing if He learned something new. Are you suggesting the bible is incorrect? That would be suggesting it isn't inspired by God.

God seemed to learn things even in the Bible.

SBC · Aug 27, 2017

DennisTate said:
Wow!
Great answer!

God is great and always near to fill us with what we ask for.

I have to run to church but I wanted to leave you with a link to a discussion where I get into my theory that one of the things that God had in mind at the creation of Adam and Eve.... .was the restoration of as many fallen angels as possibly can be restored.........

I would disagree. And Why:

Angels were all created "HOLY". (unlike mankind who was created "VERY GOOD")

An Angel, just as mankind, has freewill to make choices.
Angels who "choose" to reject God, can not die, but shall forever be separated from God, and forever experience "purification" ie fire.

A man however, was never "created" holy, and MUST die, to become "born again" via Gods Seed or "elect to not make that choice".

One who chooses to become born of Gods Seed, is choosing to FOREVER be changed, and FOREVER Kept changed into Holiness. Our choice includes us giving God Power over our spirit, to rebirth our spirit, and to forever Keep our spirit true and faithful to Him.

[QUOTEI believe that Leviticus 16:10 gives the name for the fallen, son of G-d / King of the Watchers, Azazel.... .who...... similar to the King of Nineveh I suspect..... or to General Abner.... or to the Apostle Paul is destined to be the first major fallen angel to return to God with his whole heart.......[/QUOTE]

Paul was not an angel. Paul was a Roman, Jewish Pharisee, expert in the Law of Moses, who like many Jews, could not accept Jesus, whom they saw as a regular lowly man, void of appearing like thee glorious God, thus concluding He must then NOT be God.
However that is not to say, Paul did not have great faith in God because He did, and was specifically chosen, because of his belief in God, and his (IMO) unusual background; being both a Jewish Pharisee AND a Roman; chosen to preach to primarily Gentiles; while having to withstand Jewish backlash.

When the Lord called on Paul - there was ZERO hesitation by Paul to serve the Lord.
Even when Jesus' own disciples, Jews and Gentiles were an adversity to Paul - he perserveried.

Acts 9
[3] And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
[4] And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
[5] And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
[6] And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

Acts 9
[15] But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
[16] For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

God Bless,
SBC

Go Braves · Aug 27, 2017

No, I don't want that to be taught, except maybe in a religious class or something.

DennisTate · Aug 27, 2017

CrystalDragon said:
God seemed to learn things even in the Bible.

Yes...... after Abraham went up to the point of nearly sacrificing Isaac....... then...... God knew how Abraham would teach his children and children's children.

CrystalDragon · Aug 28, 2017

DennisTate said:
Yes...... after Abraham went up to the point of nearly sacrificing Isaac....... then...... God knew how Abraham would teach his children and children's children.

And he said multiple times "Now I know", etc. it seemed in the early days of the Israelites God wasn't seen as all-knowing, or all-powerful (he and the Israelites couldn't defeat an army due to the opponents having iron chariots).

AV1611VET · Aug 28, 2017

CrystalDragon said:
And he said multiple times "Now I know", etc. it seemed in the early days of the Israelites God wasn't seen as all-knowing, or all-powerful (he and the Israelites couldn't defeat an army due to the opponents having iron chariots).

Evidently your pope didn't get the memo, did he?

Exodus 14:24 And it came to pass, that in the morning watch the LORD looked unto the host of the Egyptians through the pillar of fire and of the cloud, and troubled the host of the Egyptians,
Exodus 14:25 And took off their chariot wheels, that they drave them heavily: so that the Egyptians said, Let us flee from the face of Israel; for the LORD fighteth for them against the Egyptians.

ViaCrucis · Aug 28, 2017

Science classes should teach science.

-CryptoLutheran

ladodgers6 · Sep 6, 2017

Monk Brendan said:
I have no problem with ID. I believe it myself. But if you want to have ID taught in schools, then you either have to get a majority of people in each state to change the law saying that Darwin MUST be taught, or you must have enough money to build schools all around the country that will teach ID (but they will still have to teach Darwin--that's the law). Either way, it will beggar all of the churches, all of the rich donors, etc. I do not have that money. Do you?

Change what Law? We do not need money, sir. We have the truth! And we need to challenge colleges, and be heard on ID. This is how we change it. By sharing the truth! Because even Darwin converted on his death bed and recanted his own view!

Go Braves · Sep 6, 2017

ladodgers6 said:
Change what Law? We do not need money, sir. We have the truth! And we need to challenge colleges, and be heard on ID. This is how we change it. By sharing the truth! Because even Darwin converted on his death bed and recanted his own view!

You don't have the truth. It's a myth created & circulated by creationists that Darwin recanted on his death bed, and a silly one at that. Science needs to continue to be taught in science classes, so you can challenge colleges as much as you please to teach ID instead, but reputable ones won't.

ViaCrucis · Sep 6, 2017

AV1611VET said:
And who did John Wycliffe borrow it from?

The Vulgate.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis · Sep 6, 2017

ladodgers6 said:
Because even Darwin converted on his death bed and recanted his own view!

PRATT.

-CryptoLutheran

Do you want to see Intelligent Design taught in universities and schools?

Can God learn or in a sense "evolve?"

Absolutely not..... this is blasphemy!

Yes....

No.....

God always knew everything about everything....and has no need to learn.

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