COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word
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Steve Petersen
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Who ever suggested heaven was attained by obeying the OC? The OC never says that!
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stuart lawrence
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I made the statement you responded to, solely because the op believes the basis of the christians judgement is obeying the TC.
I pointed out no one could attain to heaven on that basis under the OC, let alone the new one
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Steve Petersen
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As to eternal salvation, I would agree. But with respect to rewards, I would disagree. Keeping the commandments is probably the basis for reward in the World to Come.
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stuart lawrence
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I agree, in respect of works we do will bring rewards:
They are not the basis on which heaven is attained
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stuart lawrence
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And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because he is my disciple, I tell you the truth, he will certainly not lose his reward
Matt10:42
Matt10:42
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The true Gospel of Jesus is forgiveness and salvation from sin because the wages of sin is death but God so loved our world that he gave his only son to die on our behalf that if we would just believe His Word (all of it) we should not die for the sins that we have done (Romans 6:23; John 3:16). God does not force anyone to believe His Word. We can choose to believe God or not the decision is ours but the Word of God will judge us in the last days (John 12:47-48). Form Genesis to Revelations the judgements of God have only ever been given to mankind on the basis of unrepentant sin which is the transgression of God's Law (1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; 7:7; Galatians 3:24).
Unfortunately, some people just refuse the believe God's Word that the judgement is coming and sin which is the transgression of God's Law (10 commandments) is the cause of it.
Psalms 1:5
Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
Psalms 9:8
And he shall judge the world in righteousness, he shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness.
Ecclesiastes 12:14
For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
Matthew 12:36,
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
John 9:39,
And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind
Acts 17:31,
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Romnas 2:5-6,
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
2 Corinthians 5:10,
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Hebrews 9:27,
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Hebrews 10:26-27,
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
James 2:8-13,
8, If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:
9, But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12, So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13, For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoice against judgment.
2 Peter 2:9
The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
2 Peter 3:7,
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
1 Peter 4:17,
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
Jude 1:14-15,
Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him
Rev 14:7 Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
What is righteousness?
Psalms 119:172,
My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are “righteousness”.
Hebrew meaning righteousness צדק tsedeq tseh'-dek From H6663; the right (natural, moral or legal) morally and legally right; righteous צדּיק tsaddı̂yq tsad-deek' From H6663; just: - just, lawful, righteous (man).
Greek meaning righteousness δικαιοσύνη dikaiosunē dik-ah-yos-oo'-nay From G1342; equity (of character or act); specifically (Christian) justification: - righteousness.
righteous δίκαιος dikaios dik'-ah-yos From G1349; equitable (in character or act); by implication innocent, holy (absolutely or relatively): - just, meet, right (-eous)
So from God’s Word we have the definition of righteousness. God says the definition of “righteousness” according to His Word is his 10 commandments The Hebrew and Greek meaning of righteousness is to be morally and legally right; lawful character of act, innocent and holy.
Psalms 119:142,
Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
Psalms 9:8
And he shall judge the world in righteousness, he shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness.
Act 17:31
Because he hath appointed a day, in which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Ecclesiastes 12:13-14
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
As sin is the transgression of God's Law if we knowingly continue to break any one of them we are in danger of the Judgement. This includes the 4th commandment which is the 7th Day Sabbath which is a tradition of man breaking the commandments of God. (Matthew 15:3-9; James 2:8-12)
In Christ Always
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Old and New; Saved by Faith
God's people in the Old Covenant were only ever saved in the same way that we are saved in the New Covenant and that has only ever been by Faith in God's Word.
Gal 3:2,
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:6, Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Gal 3:7, Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Gal 3:8, And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Gal 3:9, So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Gal 3:14, That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Gal 3:16, Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:17, And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Hab 2:4, Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
Rom 4:16, Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Rom 4:17, As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rom 4:18, Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
Rom 4:19, And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:
Rom 4:20, He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21, And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22, And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Heb 11:4, By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Heb 11:5, By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Heb 11:7, By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Heb 11:8, By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Heb 11:9, By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Heb 11:10, For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Heb 11:11, Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
Heb 11:17, By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
Heb 11:18, Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
Heb 11:19, Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
Heb 11:20, By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
Heb 11:21, By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
Heb 11:22, By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
Heb 11:23, By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
Heb 11:24, By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
Heb 11:25, Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
Heb 11:26, Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
Heb 11:27, By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
Heb 11:28, Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
Heb 11:29, By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
Heb 11:30, By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
Heb 11:31, By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
Heb 11:32, ¶ And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
Heb 11:33, Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
Heb 11:34, Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
Heb 11:35, Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
Heb 11:36, And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
Heb 11:37, They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
Heb 11:38, (Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
Heb 11:39, And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
You get the picture I pray
God's Blessings
God's people in the Old Covenant were only ever saved in the same way that we are saved in the New Covenant and that has only ever been by Faith in God's Word.
Gal 3:2,
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:6, Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Gal 3:7, Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Gal 3:8, And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Gal 3:9, So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Gal 3:14, That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Gal 3:16, Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:17, And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Hab 2:4, Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
Rom 4:16, Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Rom 4:17, As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rom 4:18, Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
Rom 4:19, And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:
Rom 4:20, He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21, And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22, And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Heb 11:4, By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Heb 11:5, By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Heb 11:7, By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Heb 11:8, By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Heb 11:9, By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Heb 11:10, For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Heb 11:11, Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
Heb 11:17, By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
Heb 11:18, Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
Heb 11:19, Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
Heb 11:20, By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
Heb 11:21, By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
Heb 11:22, By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
Heb 11:23, By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
Heb 11:24, By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
Heb 11:25, Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
Heb 11:26, Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
Heb 11:27, By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
Heb 11:28, Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
Heb 11:29, By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
Heb 11:30, By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
Heb 11:31, By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
Heb 11:32, ¶ And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
Heb 11:33, Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
Heb 11:34, Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
Heb 11:35, Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
Heb 11:36, And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
Heb 11:37, They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
Heb 11:38, (Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
Heb 11:39, And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
You get the picture I pray
God's Blessings
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stuart lawrence
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I prefer to just concentrate in one or two scriptures and give explanation of them, rather than just copy pasting huge chunks selectively if the letter.
You correctly quote:
Sin is the transgression of the law.
Therefore I am sure you will agree. If we observe the law we do not commit sin, if we fail to observe the law, we do commit sin:
Therefore, no one will be declared righteous/ justified in his sight by observing the law/ not committing sin. Rather through the law we become conscious of sin.
Rom3:20
Now according to you, if a person transgresses the law/ commits sin they can no longer be in a saved state, therefore they are no longer righteous before God. So you are saying, your rightstanding/ righteousness before God hinges on observing the law.
Once again, Paul disagrees with you.
Your christianity is a world away from my understanding of christianity.
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stuart lawrence
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You don't understand the NC, nor the core message of the person who wrote half the books of the NT. Copy pasting selectively much of the letter proves nothing I am afraid. I'm sure the Pharisees of Jesus day could have done the same, if computers had been available to them
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stuart lawrence
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I'm afraid, people who just copy paste selectively huge amounts of the letter, do so, for they cannot discern the true spiritual message contained in the letter. Hence the huge amount of copy pasting. They cannot do exegesis of what they quote, so......
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My posts are mine from God's Word. Just because there is many scriptures presented only confirms what I am sharing with you and others. I love God's Word so I share it because it proves what I believe. If you say that I do not understand the NC please by all means share your scriptures. I have shared mine above. Also please also show me from my testimony linked here how it is not NC? If you cannot do any of the above it just shows me that you are judging me for something that you are guilty of (Romans 2:1). I have to go out for now. Hope you have a great day. Happy to chat more latter.
In Christ!
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stuart lawrence
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Note the core terms of the NC, the foundation upon which it stands:
I will write my laws in their minds and place them on their hearts
THEN HE ADDS
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more.
Heb10:16&17
Note which comes first!
You only get a saviour from sin because the law has been placed in your most inward parts.
What is in your heart, you in your heart want to follow. It is part of who you are. Part of your DNA if you like.
Gone is the opportunity to sin in ignorance. Gone is the opportunity to happily sin without conscience. Wilfully go against the law in your heart and your conscience MUST be seered. You will have no rest, and no peace until you come before your Father in Heaven and ask his forgiveness for your folly.
You come as a child does to a loving parent. You don't repent because you fear hell if you do not, but because you have grieved the Spirit who dwells in you, you love God and want your peace back.
The law in your heart cuts out the licence to sin.
But not everyone who goes to church has been truly born again of the spirit. There are wolves among the sheep
I will write my laws in their minds and place them on their hearts
THEN HE ADDS
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more.
Heb10:16&17
Note which comes first!
You only get a saviour from sin because the law has been placed in your most inward parts.
What is in your heart, you in your heart want to follow. It is part of who you are. Part of your DNA if you like.
Gone is the opportunity to sin in ignorance. Gone is the opportunity to happily sin without conscience. Wilfully go against the law in your heart and your conscience MUST be seered. You will have no rest, and no peace until you come before your Father in Heaven and ask his forgiveness for your folly.
You come as a child does to a loving parent. You don't repent because you fear hell if you do not, but because you have grieved the Spirit who dwells in you, you love God and want your peace back.
The law in your heart cuts out the licence to sin.
But not everyone who goes to church has been truly born again of the spirit. There are wolves among the sheep
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stuart lawrence
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I have provided scripture, and explained scripture( 1john3:4&rom3:20&heb10:16&17)
I repeat, I don't just selectively quote the letter, what I quote I am willing and able to explain
Do you think I couldn't reel off the letter if I was using a computer and wanted to?
You don't have an in depth conversation that way, considering and contemplating what is quoted. Just a scripture quoting contest. it's shallow in my view.
And to be honest, I dont see anyone else in this thread just reeling off huge chunks of the letter. There's been some very good explanations of what has been quoted in my view
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stuart lawrence
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Whoever heard of a minister who preached a sermon, solely by reciting the literal.letter. He has to explain what he quotes.
I'm not a minister, but anyone who would like to be must be able to do more than simply reel off huge chunks of the letter itself
I'm not a minister, but anyone who would like to be must be able to do more than simply reel off huge chunks of the letter itself
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stuart lawrence
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I mean, Mormons, jws and Muslims quote the letter of the Bible at length to support their errant views
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stuart lawrence
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And I've just shown you in a post how your beliefs are not NC.
Post 810
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