COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

Bob S · Aug 26, 2017

Soyeong said:
Hello, I'm not sure how far back your last post is, but I didn't see it, sorry.

If you agree that our salvation is from sin and the that Torah was given to reveal what sin is, then it is not clear to me how you can say that the two are not connected.

I have stated over and over that morality is forever. All of the laws in the old covenant that pertain to how we treat our God and our fellow man deals with morals. First of all the 10 commandments were just the tip of the iceberg when it came to pointing our moral issues. It was not a complete set of commands. Secondly the 10cs contained a ritual command. It like the other Sabbaths , clothing, wearing of tassels, sideburns, health laws and etc. were ritual, judicial or just plain common sense. All those laws governed the way Israel was to live in Canaan. So you see Torah is not our guide for what sin is. We are not living in Canaan and the covenant was broken. There is no old covenant in force today. The new covenant has laws that govern Christians all over the World. It should be so easy to understand yet many try to incorporate the old into the new. The old was a bunch of laws to govern Israel, the new is the way all of those who accept Jesus as Savior and love one another will inherit the new Earth.

Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent from our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand, so repenting from our disobedience to the Law is an integral part of the Gospel. It's not like salvation was a new concept in the NT and no one had any idea what Jesus was talking about. The need for our salvation began with the Fall and the whole of the Bible is God's revealed plan of redemption. God did not switch plans half way through.

We have to remember Jesus was under Torah. If He was teaching the Jews He would refer to Torah. If He ever spoke to Gentiles He would have referred to The Noahide laws. Moses knew the plan of salvation because he was the one who spoke of how Abraham was saved. It never has and of course never will be by keeping Torah.

If you interpret Paul as teaching against obeying what God commanded, then the issue is not whether you are a follower of me or a follower of Paul, but whether you are a follower of God or whether you a follower of Paul.

Paul never spoke against the law and I hope you have not gleaned that from my posts. Paul taught that the law was until Jesus Gal 3:19. 2Cor3:7-11. Now all mankind is under the new covenant of Grace and love.

In Deuteronomy 13:4-5, the way that God instructed His chosen people to determine whether someone was a false prophet who was not speaking for Him was if they taught them against following what He had commanded, so if you think that Paul was doing that, then you should be quicker to regard him as a false prophet and to disregard what he said than to disregard what God commanded.

Hold on there partner, you are the one who will not recognize the scriptures we ask you to consider. They upset your apple cart.

However, Paul did no such thing, but rather in 2 Corinthians 3:6-11, he spoke about the New Covenant having much greater glory than the Old Covenant.

That is absolutely deceiving and you know it. He wrote that the 10 commandments lost their glory and were only temporary. They have faded away.

While we are not under the Old Covenant, we are still under the same God, who does not change.

Right, God does not change. He set the [plan of salvation into place when Adam sinned. The plan has taken many turns and has not been the same for all mankind. God had a plan for Israel and they failed. Jesus has a plan for all mankind and it will not fail. I believe what you are trying to tell us is that Torah was the ultimate set of laws that God gave only to Israel and we are to obey those laws. That just ain't so my friend. I don't believe you really believe that either. If you really did you would be keeping all the laws of Torah and not be making excuses for not.

God's righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:142), so too therefore are all of God's righteous laws (Psalms 119:160). If the way to act in accordance with God's righteousness changed when Christ came, then God's righteousness changed, but God's righteousness is eternal and does not change, and the same goes for God's other attributes.

Not so, the plan was made with changes in it and God has never changed the plan.

The Law can be perverted into legalistic list of does and don'ts according to the letter or it can be correctly taken as a guide for how to have an intimate relationship with God.

Where there is no law there is no sin. For the Israelites all the ritual keeping of days was law. Were the Gentiles sinning when they didn't keep the ritual laws given only to Israel. Are we Christians sinning because we do not observe ritual laws given only to Israel?

The problem is that you are focusing too much on who the Torah was given to and not enough on who it was given by. Do you agree that the Torah instructs how to walk in God's ways (Deuteronomy 8:6) and that as followers of God we should seek to walk in His ways? Are you part of God's chosen people, a holy nation, a royal priesthood, and a treasure of God's own possession (1 Peter 2:9-10)? If so, then you should seek to obey God's instructions for how to act as such instead of focusing on whether you live in Canaan. The way to do what is righteous is based on God's righteousness, not on where you happen to live.

I am focusing on what the law was really for. You are focused on believing the law was for salvation. It was not, it was to make Israel a Holy nation. It didn't work. Biblical Israel is defunct. The law is defunct because it could last only as long as the covenant lasted.

LoveGodsWord · Aug 26, 2017

Hi All,

It has been very busy here since I have been away nice to be back for a while. I just wanted to say however some of the comments I have read and accusation in some of those comments have been a little disappointing as they do not have any basis in truth. For that reason I am could not be bothered responding to some of those posts as I have shared enough scripture already and we will have to agree to disagree and let God's Word judge between us. It would be nice if people could address the post and share scripture rather then their opinions because only God's Word is truth and matters, not our own words and opinions over the Word of God.

I thought I would share my personal testimony again for those that are accusing me that I believe I am saved by the works of God's Law despite me telling them otherwise and for those that do not know me and have never heard my testimony I share this with you because it is what I believe and is only what I am sharing here in this OP.

This is my testimony.

When I first started reading God's Word, I believed that I needed to keep God's Law (10 commandments) for my salvation accepting the death and life of Jesus. I was very exacting in what I believed at the time and tried to be very strict in my observance to obey God's Law. I found after some time that the harder I tried the more I saw myself as a sinner going through a cycle of sinning, confessing and repenting the same old sins, until I was ready to give up in discouragement. I also saw myself on the inside. Sometimes I was outwardly never breaking God's Laws but in my thinking it was not a very nice place to be at all. Where was this love I was suppose to have for others. I knew deep down inside that I did not really love people like Jesus wanted me to.

What now? Reading God's Word Jesus is telling me even if I look on a woman to lust I have already committed adultery applying God's Law to my very thoughts? Ok here I lost all hope..... condemned as a sinner....... All my righteousness now was as it is plainly to be seen, filthy rags. I have finally given up all hope of trying to keep God's Law. There is finally nothing that I can do to save myself.

It was at this place for the very first time in my life I met Jesus. I could finally see that it was he who died on the cross for my sins and that I was the chiefest of sinners of whom Christ had come to save! I knew for the very first time in my life that Jesus had come into the world not to save the righteous but bring sinners to repentance. Before I was righteous (in my own eyes) but now I can see myself just how God sees me, sick with sin in need of a Savoir. The Law of God was my schoolmaster that brought me to the cross to meet Jesus for the first time. Here I was at the cross, all undone my complete dependence was no longer on what I could do, but was only on what God's Word says it would do. For the first time I had complete dependence on the Word of God to do what it says it would do and that Jesus was holding out His free gift of salvation to me all he wanted me to do was to believe His Word and it was mine. I saw for the very first time that I love Him because He first loved me.

Now I walk with him. His commandments that brought me to him are no longer his commandments. They are his promises and as I received Jesus I live in Jesus, by faith in his Word to do what it says it will do. Now I obey and follow him because I love him. He has made me free in Him and given me power to walk with him in newness of life. Now I follow the God of creation by faith and dependence on the Word only to do what it says it will do. I love Jesus and His Word. His Words are spirit and they are life! I worship Jesus every day. I follow His Word by faith and it is he that works in me as I believe His Word. For the very first time I am free in Him, He changes me day by day as I believe His Word.

LoveGodsWord · Aug 26, 2017

A counterfeit Gospel is out there. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation.

Why is God's Law important to helping someone to have faith in Christ alone?

Because it is only through the Law of God (10 commandments) that any of us have a knowledge of what sin is (1John 3:4; Romans 3:20; 24). If we do away with God's Law we have no knowledge of sin. If we have no knowledge of sin we have no need of a savior. If we have no need of a savior we have no salvation. If we have no salvation we are lost. "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law." (Romans 2:12).

God's Law shows us that we are sinners in need of a savior. God's Law was given to us that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God (Romans 3:19). It shows us that we are sinners and cannot save ourselves from this disease that we have within us so that we can by Faith lay hold of the promises of God's Words so that Jesus can save us from our sins. Jesus did not come to save the righteous (those that think they do not need saving) but sinners (those that know their need of saving) (Matthew 9:12-13; Mark 2:17; Luke 5:32) God's Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ. It will be the basis of the judgement where we will all be accountable to God.

The Law of God is the only way of showing us who we truly are, sinners in need of a Savior and in this condition we can see for the first time Him who loved us and washed us in His own blood and by faith only lay hold of the promises of Gods Word. (2 Peter 1:4) It is here as we believe God, that he changes us from living a life of breaking God's Law to a life of walking with him. It is through the operation of God through Love because he first loved us that we follow Jesus not for salvation but because of love. Love is the fulfilling of God's Law in us who walk not after the flesh (carnal sinful mind) but after the spirit and why Jesus says to his followers, "If you love me keep the commandments" (John 14:15).

People cannot see that this is the operation of God in the believer and assume God's people believe they are saved by their works, when in fact Jesus is saving us from our sins to walk in newness of life in fulfillment of His new Covenant promise (Hebrews 8:10-12)...... Gods Sheep hear His Voice salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's Law (1 John 3:4) whosoever is living in sin has neither seen him nor known him (1 John 3:6)

If any of us have unrepentant sin in our lives it is not too late to turn to God however none of us know when our time on earth is over. Maybe today? Maybe tomorrow? Who knows, but when that time comes if we have unrepentant sin in our life we will be lost. God is not willing that any of us should perish but that all of us should be saved and come to know him.

Isaiah 55:6-7,
Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

In Christ Always!

stuart lawrence · Aug 26, 2017

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi All,

It has been very busy here since I have been away nice to be back for a while. I just wanted to say however some of the comments I have read and accusation in some of those comments have been a little disappointing as they do not have any basis in truth. For that reason I am could not be bothered responding to some of those posts as I have shared enough scripture already and we will have to agree to disagree and let God's Word judge between us. It would be nice if people could address the post and share scripture rather then their opinions because only God's Word is truth and matters, not our own words and opinions over the Word of God.

I thought I would share my personal testimony again for those that are accusing me that I believe I am saved by the works of God's Law despite me telling them otherwise and for those that do not know me and have never heard my testimony I share this with you because it is what I believe and is only what I am sharing here in this OP.

This is my testimony.

When I first started reading God's Word, I believed that I needed to keep God's Law (10 commandments) for my salvation accepting the death and life of Jesus. I was very exacting in what I believed at the time and tried to be very strict in my observance to obey God's Law. I found after some time that the harder I tried the more I saw myself as a sinner going through a cycle of sinning, confessing and repenting the same old sins, until I was ready to give up in discouragement. I also saw myself on the inside. Sometimes I was outwardly never breaking God's Laws but in my thinking it was not a very nice place to be at all. Where was this love I was suppose to have for others. I knew deep down inside that I did not really love people like Jesus wanted me to.

What now? Reading God's Word Jesus is telling me even if I look on a woman to lust I have already committed adultery applying God's Law to my very thoughts? Ok here I lost all hope..... condemned as a sinner....... All my righteousness now was as it is plainly to be seen, filthy rags. I have finally given up all hope of trying to keep God's Law. There is finally nothing that I can do to save myself.

It was at this place for the very first time in my life I met Jesus. I could finally see that it was he who died on the cross for my sins and that I was the chiefest of sinners of whom Christ had come to save! I knew for the very first time in my life that Jesus had come into the world not to save the righteous but bring sinners to repentance. Before I was righteous (in my own eyes) but now I can see myself just how God sees me, sick with sin in need of a Savoir. The Law of God was my schoolmaster that brought me to the cross to meet Jesus for the first time. Here I was at the cross, all undone my complete dependence was no longer on what I could do, but was only on what God's Word says it would do. For the first time I had complete dependence on the Word of God to do what it says it would do and that Jesus was holding out His free gift of salvation to me all he wanted me to do was to believe His Word and it was mine. I saw for the very first time that I love Him because He first loved me.

Now I walk with him. His commandments that brought me to him are no longer his commandments. They are his promises and as I received Jesus I live in Jesus, by faith in his Word to do what it says it will do. Now I obey and follow him because I love him. He has made me free in Him and given me power to walk with him in newness of life. Now I follow the God of creation by faith and dependence on the Word only to do what it says it will do. I love Jesus and His Word. His Words are spirit and they are life! I worship Jesus every day. I follow His Word by faith and it is he that works in me as I believe His Word. For the very first time I am free in Him, He changes me day by day as I believe His Word.

You continually state a person can only be in a saved state if they observe the law. If you are in a saved state you are righteous before God. If you are not in a saved state you are not righteous before God. Therefore to you, being righteous hinges on observing the law despite your protestations to the contrary. And you say the basis of the christians judgement us observing the law.
It would be so much simpler if you just plainly stated what an sda member stated in another thread, rather than try and go all round the houses seeking to deny your true belief. He stated, and I quote:
A Christians justification is observing the TC.

That is your justification also, as we are well aware

stuart lawrence · Aug 26, 2017

LoveGodsWord said:
A counterfeit Gospel is out there. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation.

Why is God's Law important to helping someone to have faith in Christ alone?

Because it is only through the Law of God (10 commandments) that any of us have a knowledge of what sin is (1John 3:4; Romans 3:20; 24). If we do away with God's Law we have no knowledge of sin. If we have no knowledge of sin we have no need of a savior. If we have no need of a savior we have no salvation. If we have no salvation we are lost. "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law." (Romans 2:12).

God's Law shows us that we are sinners in need of a savior. God's Law was given to us that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God (Romans 3:19). It shows us that we are sinners and cannot save ourselves from this disease that we have within us so that we can by Faith lay hold of the promises of God's Words so that Jesus can save us from our sins. Jesus did not come to save the righteous (those that think they do not need saving) but sinners (those that know their need of saving) (Matthew 9:12-13; Mark 2:17; Luke 5:32) God's Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ. It will be the basis of the judgement where we will all be accountable to God.

The Law of God is the only way of showing us who we truly are, sinners in need of a Savior and in this condition we can see for the first time Him who loved us and washed us in His own blood and by faith only lay hold of the promises of Gods Word. (2 Peter 1:4) It is here as we believe God, that he changes us from living a life of breaking God's Law to a life of walking with him. It is through the operation of God through Love because he first loved us that we follow Jesus not for salvation but because of love. Love is the fulfilling of God's Law in us who walk not after the flesh (carnal sinful mind) but after the spirit and why Jesus says to his followers, "If you love me keep the commandments" (John 14:15).

People cannot see that this is the operation of God in the believer and assume God's people believe they are saved by their works, when in fact Jesus is saving us from our sins to walk in newness of life in fulfillment of His new Covenant promise (Hebrews 8:10-12)...... Gods Sheep hear His Voice salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's Law (1 John 3:4) whosoever is living in sin has neither seen him nor known him (1 John 3:6)

If any of us have unrepentant sin in our lives it is not too late to turn to God however none of us know when our time on earth is over. Maybe today? Maybe tomorrow? Who knows, but when that time comes if we have unrepentant sin in our life we will be lost. God is not willing that any of us should perish but that all of us should be saved and come to know him.

Isaiah 55:6-7,
Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

In Christ Always!

BTW
As you wish to be judged according to your observance of the law, there is only one pass mark. 100 percent perfectobedience to the letter that kills/ the ministry of death and condemnation:

For whoever keeps the whole law yet stumbles at JUST ONE POINT is guilty of breaking all of it
James2:10

As you are not sinless in your flesh, you have stumbled where the law is concerned, and are therefore guilty of breaking ALL of it

stuart lawrence · Aug 26, 2017

It's a fantasy world to tell someone they can only be in a saved state/ righteous if they observe the law, but they are not righteous by observing the law.
Who are people trying to kid?

stuart lawrence · Aug 26, 2017

The TC are an inflexible law. There is no pass mark of obedience to them that can entitle you to enter heaven based on obedience to them. Perfectly obey them or stand guilty before them.

LoveGodsWord · Aug 26, 2017

GOD”S LAW WRITTEN ON THE HEART

1 John 3:4
Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. (see also Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; Galatians 3:24)

Hebrews 8:10-12,
10, For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11, And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: 12, for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. (also Jeremiah 31:33-34; Heb 10:16-17)

Eze 36:26-27,
26, A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27, And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

John 3:3-7,
3, Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4, Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5, Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6, That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7, Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Rom 8:12-14,
12, Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13, For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14, For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Romans 8:1-4,
1, There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2, For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3, For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4, That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

1 John 3:9-10,
9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

John 8:31-36,
31, Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32, And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33, They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how says thou, Ye shall be made free? 34, Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever commits sin is the servant of sin. 35, And the servant abids not in the house for ever: but the Son abides ever. 36, If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

The New Covenant is about the need for being born again and walking in the Spirit because we are sinners and all we can do without Jesus in our life is sin. The good news is that we have a Savior that wants to save us ans free us from the power of sin in our lives.

I am sure all would agree that if someone is a born again christian by faith in God's Word through the operation of God in our lives we will not murder, steal or commit adultery etc because God has changed our hearts to love him and to follow him. This is indeed is the new covenant experience spoken of in Jer 31:31-34; Eze 36:26-27; Heb 8:10-12; 10:16-17.

So now under the new covenant when God changes our heart things have changed; God's commandments are no longer his commands to us but his promises to us as we believe God and have faith in his Words to do what they say they will do. It is through faith and the operation of God in us as we walk in the Spirit (faith in God's Word) that we now Love God and our neighbor. Now if we Love God (changed heart)

if we love God we will not steal
if we love God we will not murder
if we love God we will not commit adultery
if we love God we will not lie
if we love God we will honour our parents
if we love God we will not covet
if we love God we will have no other gods except our God who loves us
if we love God we will not make unto any idols
if we love God we will not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain
if we love God we will Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy as he asked us to!

God’s Law (10 commandments) through love have always been central to both the Old and the New Covenant because it represents God's character of love. It is only by the operation of God as we have Faith in His Word that God changes our hearts so that we can love him and love our neighbor that we can walk in his ways because all of us are sinners in need of salvation. This is why Jesus says its only if you love me we can keep hid commandments and abide in His love (John 14:15; John 15:10)

Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
Psa 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
Psa 51:13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
Love is the fulfilling of the God’s Law. I love Jesus and want to follow Him how about you?

In Christ Always!

LoveGodsWord · Aug 26, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
It's a fantasy world to tell someone they can only be in a saved state/ righteous if they observe the law, but they are not righteous by observing the law. Who are people trying to kid?

Agreed, the same as people trying to say that people are in a saved state if they have unrepentant sin in their lives while professing to be a Christian.

stuart lawrence · Aug 26, 2017

LoveGodsWord said:
GOD”S LAW WRITTEN ON THE HEART

1 John 3:4
Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. (see also Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; Galatians 3:24)

Hebrews 8:10-12,
10, For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11, And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: 12, for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. (also Jeremiah 31:33-34; Heb 10:16-17)

Eze 36:26-27,
26, A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27, And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

John 3:3-7,
3, Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4, Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5, Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6, That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7, Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Rom 8:12-14,
12, Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13, For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14, For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Romans 8:1-4,
1, There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2, For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3, For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4, That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

1 John 3:9-10,
9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

John 8:31-36,
31, Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32, And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33, They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how says thou, Ye shall be made free? 34, Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever commits sin is the servant of sin. 35, And the servant abids not in the house for ever: but the Son abides ever. 36, If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

The New Covenant is about the need for being born again and walking in the Spirit because we are sinners and all we can do without Jesus in our life is sin. The good news is that we have a Savior that wants to save us ans free us from the power of sin in our lives.

I am sure all would agree that if someone is a born again christian by faith in God's Word through the operation of God in our lives we will not murder, steal or commit adultery etc because God has changed our hearts to love him and to follow him. This is indeed is the new covenant experience spoken of in Jer 31:31-34; Eze 36:26-27; Heb 8:10-12; 10:16-17.

So now under the new covenant when God changes our heart things have changed; God's commandments are no longer his commands to us but his promises to us as we believe God and have faith in his Words to do what they say they will do. It is through faith and the operation of God in us as we walk in the Spirit (faith in God's Word) that we now Love God and our neighbor. Now if we Love God (changed heart)

if we love God we will not steal
if we love God we will not murder
if we love God we will not commit adultery
if we love God we will not lie
if we love God we will honour our parents
if we love God we will not covet
if we love God we will have no other gods except our God who loves us
if we love God we will not make unto any idols
if we love God we will not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain
if we love God we will Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy as he asked us to!

God’s Law (10 commandments) through love have always been central to both the Old and the New Covenant because it represents God's character of love. It is only by the operation of God as we have Faith in His Word that God changes our hearts so that we can love him and love our neighbor that we can walk in his ways because all of us are sinners in need of salvation. This is why Jesus says its only if you love me we can keep hid commandments and abide in His love (John 14:15; John 15:10)

Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
Psa 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
Psa 51:13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
Love is the fulfilling of the God’s Law. I love Jesus and want to follow Him how about you?

In Christ Always!

Why quote the NC? You don't believe it!

Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more.
Yet you say, you cannot be in a saved state if you commit sin/ transgress the law

stuart lawrence · Aug 26, 2017

LoveGodsWord said:
Agreed, the same as people trying to say that people are in a saved state if they have unrepentant sin in their lives while professing to be a Christian.

If only you understood the NC.
How can I explain.
Think of the person you love the most in this world. Let's call them x. Though you love x dearly, you will not act perfectly at all times to x. Humans don't do they. When you offend or upset x, do you shrug your shoulders and walk away, vowing never to tell them you are sorry for offending them? Or, as surely as night follows day, will you ask their forgiveness for how you acted toward them? For in your heart you love them and want to please them

Think about it

LoveGodsWord · Aug 26, 2017

Seems like there is some confusion by some here as well as to what the Torah actually is. I would like to suggest that everyone that professes to be a Jew or a Christian is a Torah observer. So why do I say this?

What does the Word Torah mean?
Torah (Hebrew) also called "Pentateuch from the Greek" is the first five books of the Bible which include, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. These are also called the book of Moses as they were written by Moses.

Jesus tells as that we are to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God (Matthew 4:4)
All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable (2 Timothy 3:16)

God bless

stuart lawrence · Aug 26, 2017

LoveGodsWord said:
GOD”S LAW WRITTEN ON THE HEART

1 John 3:4
Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. (see also Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; Galatians 3:24)

Hebrews 8:10-12,
10, For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11, And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: 12, for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. (also Jeremiah 31:33-34; Heb 10:16-17)

Eze 36:26-27,
26, A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27, And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

John 3:3-7,
3, Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4, Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5, Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6, That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7, Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Rom 8:12-14,
12, Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13, For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14, For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Romans 8:1-4,
1, There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2, For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3, For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4, That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

1 John 3:9-10,
9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

John 8:31-36,
31, Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32, And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33, They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how says thou, Ye shall be made free? 34, Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever commits sin is the servant of sin. 35, And the servant abids not in the house for ever: but the Son abides ever. 36, If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

The New Covenant is about the need for being born again and walking in the Spirit because we are sinners and all we can do without Jesus in our life is sin. The good news is that we have a Savior that wants to save us ans free us from the power of sin in our lives.

I am sure all would agree that if someone is a born again christian by faith in God's Word through the operation of God in our lives we will not murder, steal or commit adultery etc because God has changed our hearts to love him and to follow him. This is indeed is the new covenant experience spoken of in Jer 31:31-34; Eze 36:26-27; Heb 8:10-12; 10:16-17.

So now under the new covenant when God changes our heart things have changed; God's commandments are no longer his commands to us but his promises to us as we believe God and have faith in his Words to do what they say they will do. It is through faith and the operation of God in us as we walk in the Spirit (faith in God's Word) that we now Love God and our neighbor. Now if we Love God (changed heart)

if we love God we will not steal
if we love God we will not murder
if we love God we will not commit adultery
if we love God we will not lie
if we love God we will honour our parents
if we love God we will not covet
if we love God we will have no other gods except our God who loves us
if we love God we will not make unto any idols
if we love God we will not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain
if we love God we will Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy as he asked us to!

God’s Law (10 commandments) through love have always been central to both the Old and the New Covenant because it represents God's character of love. It is only by the operation of God as we have Faith in His Word that God changes our hearts so that we can love him and love our neighbor that we can walk in his ways because all of us are sinners in need of salvation. This is why Jesus says its only if you love me we can keep hid commandments and abide in His love (John 14:15; John 15:10)

Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
Psa 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
Psa 51:13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
Love is the fulfilling of the God’s Law. I love Jesus and want to follow Him how about you?

In Christ Always!

The TC do NOT by a long way cover every aspect of loving others. If they did, love thy neighbour as thyself would not have been needed to be an OT law.
Jesus said, the law hung on loving God and loving your neighbour as yourself. He did NOT say the law hung on the TC

stuart lawrence · Aug 26, 2017

Under the NC, the law God desires you to follow is transferred from an external law written on tablets of stone to an internal law written in tablets of human hearts( 2cor3:3) in this sense you have been born again. No longer do you seek to live as you naturally desire to live, but as God wants you to live, for the law is in your heart.
Humans CANNOT go against how is in their heart to act without their conscience being seered. And they will have no rest, or peace until they do what they need to do to have peace restored in their life.
I'm afraid, just reciting the partial letter, without understanding the practical outworking of the covenant the Christian is under, is wandering around in semi( at least) darkness. You cannot see properly where you are going

stuart lawrence · Aug 26, 2017

Incidentally, no one under the OC could attain heaven on the basis of obeying the TC, let alone the new one.

Steve Petersen · Aug 26, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
Incidentally, no one under the OC could attain heaven on the basis of obeying the TC, let alone the new one.

Where in the Torah is life after death in heaven even mentioned? It is not a concern of the Torah.

stuart lawrence · Aug 26, 2017

Steve Petersen said:
Where in the Torah is life after death in heaven even mentioned? It is not a concern of the Torah.

No one went to heaven to dwell with God when they died under the OC.

Steve Petersen · Aug 26, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
No one went to heaven to dwell with God when they died under the OC.

What does this have do to with my question?

stuart lawrence · Aug 26, 2017

That includes Elijah!

stuart lawrence · Aug 26, 2017

Steve Petersen said:
What does this have do to with my question?

I'm not sure what your question has to do with the post you responded to

COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

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