What is the "sacred secret", that Paul talks about, of God...?

Neogaia777 · Aug 25, 2017

What is the "sacred secret", that Paul talks about, of God...?

Paul said that it has to do with the cross or the death of Christ, the Son of God... But, I do not find anywhere that he specifically says what this (sacred secret) is or means...

He does say that it is foolishness to the world, but is God's power and strength to us who believe in and follow him (Christ) or in his ways...

So, what is the "sacred secret" of the cross, or life of, (and most importantly), death and resurrection of Christ...?

Comments...?

Peace,

God Bless!

W2L · Aug 25, 2017

I have never heard about this. Is there a scripture you can share, which can shed some light?

Neogaia777 · Aug 25, 2017

Mark 4:11 1 Corinthians 2:7 Ephesians 3:9 Colossians 1:27 Colossians 4:3 1 Timothy 3:16

There's more, but that is all I can find right now, the KJV says "mystery" but, I've been studying a translation that says "sacred secret"...

Revelation 10:7

God Bless!

timewerx · Aug 25, 2017

Also John 21:25

It's not included in the Bible obviously. Whey Jesus spoke in parables mean it isn't for everyone. Not all parables were included in the Bible for that would contradict its purpose because the Bible can be read by anyone.

These are things about the Kingdom of God that Jesus or the Holy Spirit reveals to a believer directly.

This means what I know, I cannot tell you. You must hear it from Christ or the Holy Spirit.

Neogaia777 · Aug 25, 2017

timewerx said:
Also John 21:25

It's not included in the Bible obviously. Whey Jesus spoke in parables mean it isn't for everyone. Not all parables were included in the Bible for that would contradict its purpose because the Bible can be read by anyone.

These are things about the Kingdom of God that Jesus or the Holy Spirit reveals to a believer directly.

This means what I know, I cannot tell you. You must hear it from Christ or the Holy Spirit.

It's pretty simple really, "what is the mystery of the cross (the life, death, burial, resurrection) of Christ"?, is basically what I'm asking...

I know the question, and feel like I (kind of) know the answer, but am having trouble putting it into words...

God Bless!

Catherineanne · Aug 25, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
What is the "sacred secret", that Paul talks about, of God...?

Paul said that it has to do with the cross or the death of Christ, the Son of God... But, I do not find anywhere that he specifically says what this (sacred secret) is or means...

He does say that it is foolishness to the world, but is God's power and strength to us who believe in and follow him (Christ) or in his ways...

So, what is the "sacred secret" of the cross, or life of, (and most importantly), death and resurrection of Christ...?

Comments...?

Peace,

God Bless!

If Paul told us what it was it wouldn't be a secret any more, would it?

Catherineanne · Aug 25, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
It's pretty simple really, "what is the mystery of the cross (the life, death, burial, resurrection) of Christ"?, is basically what I'm asking...

I know the question, and feel like I (kind of) know the answer, but am having trouble putting it into words...

God Bless!

The mystery of the cross is that God does not behave towards us like we might expect, he behaves like a condemned criminal.

Neogaia777 · Aug 25, 2017

Catherineanne said:
The mystery of the cross is that God does not behave towards us like we might expect, he behaves like a condemned criminal.

How does he behave like a condemned criminal toward us...?

Neogaia777 · Aug 25, 2017

Catherineanne said:
If Paul told us what it was it wouldn't be a secret any more, would it?

I think it's in there, in fact, I'm pretty sure of it... And I think that Paul and many disciples and apostles knew it, and that it is in there, and is not unknowable...

And this seems to important to our faith, we should know this, and if we don't, I think there is something wrong or off with us...

God Bless!

Hidden In Him · Aug 25, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
Mark 4:11 1 Corinthians 2:7 Ephesians 3:9 Colossians 1:27 Colossians 4:3 1 Timothy 3:16

There's more, but that is all I can find right now, the KJV says "mystery" but, I've been studying a translation that says "sacred secret"...

Revelation 10:7

Good Heavens!

That would be a lot to explain, but for starters "mystery" is actually the better translation. It's not really that God was keeping secrets from anyone, but that accurate prophetic understand of how things would eventually unfold was a mystery hidden in Him, which only those through the revelations given by the Holy Spirit would be able to understand.

Mark 4:11, 1 Corinthians 2:7 - These two are about the mystery of the kingdom. The Parable of the Sower addresses how the kingdom would grow in the earth, and in 1st Corinthians Paul deals with the mystery of who would and would not reign when the coming kingdom was finally established (this world's rulers would be deposed, and replaced by the saints of God. 1 Corinthians 2:6-9 relates to Daniel 7:27).

Ephesians 3:9, Colossians 1:27, Colossians 4:3, 1 Timothy 3:16 - These four deal with the mystery of Christ in us, our hope of glory. This is a different matter than "the mystery of the cross," i.e. how He died for the sins of humanity. The mystery in view in Ephesians and Colossians is how the door would be opened for the Gentiles to be made part of the body of Christ, such that Gentiles and Jews together became one body through the outpouring of the Holy Spirit (Colossians 1:21-29; Ephesians 2:11-22).

Revelation 10:7 - This deals more with the mystery of the fulfillment of ALL things, the culmination of the complete work of God as prophesied from the beginning. It is an all-emcompassing reference to the entire mystery of God laid down from the foundations of the earth.

Neogaia777 · Aug 25, 2017

Hidden In Him said:
Good Heavens!

That would be a lot to explain, but for starters "mystery" is actually the better translation. It's not really that God was keeping secrets from anyone, but that accurate prophetic understand of how things would eventually unfold was a mystery hidden in Him, which only those through the revelations given by the Holy Spirit would be able to understand.

Mark 4:11, 1 Corinthians 2:7 - These two are about the mystery of the kingdom. The Parable of the Sower addresses how the kingdom would grow in the earth, and in 1st Corinthians Paul deals with the mystery of who would and would not reign when the coming kingdom was finally established (this world's rulers would be deposed, and replaced by the saints of God. 1 Corinthians 2:6-9 relates to Daniel 7:27).

Ephesians 3:9, Colossians 1:27, Colossians 4:3, 1 Timothy 3:16 - These four deal with the mystery of Christ in us, our hope of glory. This is a different matter than "the mystery of the cross," i.e. how He died for the sins of humanity. The mystery in view in Ephesians and Colossians is how the door would be opened for the Gentiles to be made part of the body of Christ, such that Gentiles and Jews together became one body through the outpouring of the Holy Spirit (Colossians 1:21-29; Ephesians 2:11-22).

Revelation 10:7 - This deals more with the mystery of the fulfillment of ALL things, the culmination of the complete work of God as prophesied from the beginning. It is an all-emcompassing reference to the entire mystery of God laid down from the foundations of the earth.

I'm more interested in the last one you mentioned...

The cross is the answer to it/that, and Jesus life, death, burial and resurrection, how he had to die to fix a problem with all creation, I just can't quite explain it/that though... Though I'd really like to be able too... I know it's in me, by the word of God it has been implanted in me...

Need to think...

God Bless!

Hidden In Him · Aug 25, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
I'm more interested in the last one you mentioned...

The cross is the answer to it/that, and Jesus life, death, burial and resurrection, how he had to die to fix a problem with all creation

I don't wanna seem unnecessarily contrary with you, Neogaia, but the mystery of what happened on the cross and thereafter was only one of several mysteries discussed in the NT, and therefore only a part of what is being referred to in Revelation 10:7. The mystery revealed by Christ's crucifixion, death, burial, and resurrection was how God predestined for the harrowing of Hell to take place, and how the way would be opened for the righteous dead to finally enter Heaven, and the Presence of a Holy God. Until that time, the saints had to remain in the Paradise side of Sheol, awaiting the time when the True Lamb of God would be sacrificed for the sins of humanity.

But the mystery (if you can call it that) of how our God will "fix the problem with all creation" would indeed have to do with Revelation 10:7, in that it primarily has to do with the coming of God's righteous judgments, i.e. the Battle of Armageddon and treading down the wicked in the winepress of His wrath, and the casting of the wicked into "the fiery furnace" (i.e. the Lake of Fire) by the angels of His vengeance.

Neogaia777 · Aug 25, 2017

Hidden In Him said:
I don't wanna seem unnecessarily contrary with you, Neogaia, but the mystery of what happened on the cross and thereafter was only one of several mysteries discussed in the NT, and therefore only a part of what is being referred to in Revelation 10:7. The mystery revealed by Christ's crucifixion, death, burial, and resurrection was how God predestined for the harrowing of Hell to take place, and how the way would be opened for the righteous dead to finally enter Heaven, and the Presence of a Holy God. Until that time, the saints had to remain in the Paradise side of Sheol, awaiting the time when the True Lamb of God would be sacrificed for the sins of humanity.

But the mystery (if you can call it that) of how our God will "fix the problem with all creation" would indeed have to do with Revelation 10:7, in that it primarily has to do with the coming of God's righteous judgments, i.e. the Battle of Armageddon and treading down the wicked in the winepress of His wrath, and the casting of the wicked into "the fiery furnace" (i.e. the Lake of Fire) by the angels of His vengeance.

I don't find anything you just said unnecessarily contrary with me, actually quite the opposite, thank you for your reply and explaining...

I agree completely and actually do understand what you are saying (believe it or not)...

Excellent post...

Peace,

God Bless!

FenderTL5 · Aug 25, 2017

In Orthodoxy, we still reference the mystery or mysteries.
The Eucharist is often referenced as 'the mystery of Christ' in the ancient prayers and liturgical services. The real presence of Christ in the Eucharist celebration is the 'mystery' that Orthodoxy leaves as just that, a mystery.

Neogaia777 · Aug 25, 2017

FenderTL5 said:
In Orthodoxy, we still reference the mystery or mysteries.
The Eucharist is often referenced as 'the mystery of Christ' in the ancient prayers and liturgical services. The real presence of Christ in the Eucharist celebration is the 'mystery' that Orthodoxy leaves as just that, a mystery.

Yes, that's another one I'd like to understand more...

God Bless!

FenderTL5 · Aug 25, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
Yes, that's another one I'd like to understand more...

God Bless!

I had a much longer response.. but didn't know how far you wanted to explore this thought. So a shorter response is: the Greek mysterion (usually in plural mysteria) "secret rite or doctrine," from mystes was translated in the Vulgate as sacramentum (Latin). Which is where the word 'Sacraments' came from in the Latin church.

Phantasman · Aug 25, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
What is the "sacred secret", that Paul talks about, of God...?

Paul said that it has to do with the cross or the death of Christ, the Son of God... But, I do not find anywhere that he specifically says what this (sacred secret) is or means...

He does say that it is foolishness to the world, but is God's power and strength to us who believe in and follow him (Christ) or in his ways...

So, what is the "sacred secret" of the cross, or life of, (and most importantly), death and resurrection of Christ...?

Comments...?

Peace,

God Bless!

There are many questions the Orthodox way cannot answer. This is only one.

I can only offer my perspective, rather than a guess most others offer.

That is the gospel of him whom they seek, which he has revealed to the perfect through the mercies of the Father as the hidden mystery, Jesus the Christ. Through him he enlightened those who were in darkness because of forgetfulness. He enlightened them and gave them a path. And that path is the truth which he taught them. For this reason error was angry with him, so it persecuted him. It was distressed by him, so it made him powerless. He was nailed to a cross. He became a fruit of the knowledge of the Father. He did not, however, destroy them because they ate of it. He rather caused those who ate of it to be joyful because of this discovery.- Gospel of Truth

So who are the perfect?

Matthew:
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Flesh=imperfect. Spirit=perfect.

The books of gnosis came through Pauls teachings. Wiki says:

Clement of Alexandria records that his followers said that Valentinus was a follower of Theudas, and that Theudas in turn was a follower of St. Paul the Apostle.[5] Valentinus said that Theudas imparted to him the secret wisdom that Paul had taught privately to his inner circle, which Paul publicly referred to in connection with his visionary encounter with the risen Christ (Romans 16:25; 1 Corinthians 2:7; 2 Corinthians 12:2-4; Acts 9:9-10), when he received the secret teaching from him.[citation needed] Such esoteric teachings were downplayed in Rome after the mid-2nd century.[6]

The books of Clement (1 and 2) can be read at Early Christian Writings.

The Orthodox believe that there is no (hidden/secret) knowledge. But there are too many instances (by Jesus and Paul) that says there is.

We each need to decide for ourselves, or you can let men decide for you.

Personally, I found gnosis to answer all the questions the Orthodox way doesn't, and why the questions keep coming up from generation to generation.

Neogaia777 · Aug 25, 2017

FenderTL5 said:
I had a much longer response.. but didn't know how far you wanted to explore this thought. So a shorter response is: the Greek mysterion (usually in plural mysteria) "secret rite or doctrine," from mystes was translated in the Vulgate as sacramentum (Latin). Which is where the word 'Sacraments' came from in the Latin church.

Perhaps instead of sharing it in this thread, you could post your thoughts on that in this one:

Communion, what does it mean? What is the bread and the wine?

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · Aug 25, 2017

1 Corinthians 1:18

"The (mystery of the) (message of the) cross if foolishness to the nations (secular world) (those headed for destruction), but to we who are being saved, it is the very power of God..."

PeaceJoyLove · Aug 27, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
I think it's in there, in fact, I'm pretty sure of it... And I think that Paul and many disciples and apostles knew it, and that it is in there, and is not unknowable...

And this seems to important to our faith, we should know this, and if we don't, I think there is something wrong or off with us...

God Bless!

The mind of man cannot perceive the things of the spirit...they are revealed to those whom the Son chooses to reveal them...which has to do with where we are perceiving from. God asked Adam, "where art thou, who told you and have you eaten?" Finding out who we are IN Christ takes us back to the beginning...if we have become blind that we might see. John 9:41

John 16:13 ...the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak...

1 Corinthians 2:10 These things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.
verse 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Luke 10:22 All things have been entrusted to Me by My Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son, and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him.

What is the "sacred secret", that Paul talks about, of God...?

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