Who then, really can be saved (go to heaven)...? Is it many or few...?

Neogaia777 · Aug 25, 2017

"Who then, really can be saved (go to heaven)...?" "Is it many or few...?"

The apostles asked Jesus this, and Jesus came up with a very creative way of saying he "Did not know" the answer to that question, but was up to and with the Father God alone...

Matthew 19:25-26 Mark 10:26-27 Luke 18:26-27

So, if even Jesus did not know and was not sure, what makes us think we can know...?

Jesus "hoped" that it would be many, but didn't really know this for sure, and did not know it through his entire ministry...

We would do well to keep that in mind when examining his words in the four gospels, or in the NT, cause the apostles and disciples did not know this (the ones being honest about it) either... But, they had a "hope" that it would be many, rather than few, but, just "did not know' for sure, that being up to the Father God alone...

Comments...?

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · Aug 25, 2017

If it was many, then all well and good, but, if it was few, or very few, I think Jesus hoped to move God, the Father into it being more, by what he and his followers were doing...

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · Aug 25, 2017

I think Jesus could see, by the OT, and the Law, that not very many, if any could or would be saved, go to Heaven, or be spared...

I think this motivated him, and the fact that prophecy was upon him as being "The One" so to speak, motivated him, and knowing that he was "The One" to try and change it... But, it would be up to the Father alone no matter what he did and he knew that, I think...

God Bless!

timewerx · Aug 25, 2017

One thing Jesus said that many believers will not be saved:

Matthew 7:22-23
Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Neogaia777 · Aug 25, 2017

timewerx said:
One thing Jesus said that many believers will not be saved:

Matthew 7:22-23
Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Those playing around with the supernatural, yes...

But that is certainly not everybody or even "most people"...

God Bless!

timewerx · Aug 25, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
Those playing around with the supernatural, yes...

But that is certainly not everybody or even "most people"...

God Bless!

From the same chapter:

Matthew 7:14
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Neogaia777 · Aug 25, 2017

timewerx said:
From the same chapter:

Matthew 7:14
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Then there is John 3:16, which seems to imply many (all believers) will be saved...

Truth is that there is scripture to support that both many and also few will be saved...

God Bless!

timewerx · Aug 25, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
Then there is John 3:16, which seems to imply many (all believers) will be saved...

Good point!

But do most Christians actually believe?

John 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Neogaia777 · Aug 25, 2017

timewerx said:
Good point!

But do most Christians actually believe?

John 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

I think there are quite a few (many) people in the world that are doing that, though it is becoming less and less as time goes on I think...

But, I get your point, your basically saying, "what does it mean to believe?, Believe what?, how much?, what?, that kind of thing, I have had similar questions...

I do not think Jesus is talking about supernatural works, but rather more like caring for the poor, widows, orphans, those in jail, or who have fallen on hard times, or who have had hard lives, and doing things for them, that kind of thing... (the sheep basically) (who believe and do good) (Matthew 25:32-40)

And there are quite a few believers that do do that still, (but, becoming less)...

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · Aug 25, 2017

Jesus couldn't come to us and say, "Most of you will be saved", or we would not try to do or be better, he kind of had to make us think that it would be few, so we would try and make efforts to do and be better...

Whereas, if he told us, or led us to believe, it would only be very few, it would kind of "slap" us in a way, and wake us up... And it would just lead to a better humanity if he led us to believe it would only be few, even if that is not what he said, or was actually saying...

At any rate, I don't think he knew, and I wonder if we can know or not...?

It may be a big mistake thinking you can know, or not, I don't know...?

God Bless!

timewerx · Aug 25, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
At any rate, I don't think he knew, and I wonder if we can know or not...?

It may be a big mistake thinking you can know, or not, I don't know...?

God Bless!

I think you misunderstood the context of the verses you provided.

Because in Matthew 7:14, Christ knew how many will be saved and it's only few.

ClementofA · Aug 25, 2017

Matthew wrote "few" finding it (7:13-14). Paul says "many" will (Rom.5:18-19). Who is wrong? How to harmonize?

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just."

Answer:

Matthew was speaking in the present tense (not final destiny)

Paul was speaking in the future tense (final destiny).

Also Paul was teaching universalism. The "many" in v.19 is a Hebraism meaning all. Just as Jesus says He would give His life a ransom for "many" (Mk.10:45) which Paul says is "all" people (1 Tim.2:4-6).

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

Neogaia777 · Aug 25, 2017

timewerx said:
I think you misunderstood the context of the verses you provided.

Because in Matthew 7:14, Christ knew how many will be saved and it's only few.

It could be many also...

Matthew 19:25-26 Mark 10:26-27 Luke 18:26-27

And other scriptures that I don't feel like digging up right now...

Neogaia777 · Aug 25, 2017

What if a person believes as best they can but is not very knowledgeable or has not had the chance in life to be or become very knowledgeable or just isn't very smart spiritually, and does not grasp spiritual things very easily, but professes to believe and lives their life being as good as they know how to be for Christ, and is what we might call, a "babe" in the faith, and will always be a babe in the faith, and perhaps cannot be or become more than a babe in the faith...

Are they Christ's...? Do they belong to him...? Are they his, or are they saved and on their way to heaven when they die, or not...?

I know a lot, A LOT of people like this... There all around me everywhere... And, I wonder about them, cause I am concerned and care about them... Are they saved or on their way to heaven...?

God Bless!

timewerx · Aug 25, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
And other scriptures that I don't feel like digging up right now...

So why are you asking if some answers you don't want to look at?

timewerx · Aug 25, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
What if a person believes as best they can but is not very knowledgeable or has not had the chance in life to be or become very knowledgeable or just isn't very smart spiritually, and does not grasp spiritual things very easily, but professes to believe and lives their life being as good as they know how to be for Christ, and is what we might call, a "babe" in the faith, and will always be a babe in the faith, and perhaps cannot be or become more than a babe in the faith...

Are they Christ's...? Do they belong to him...? Are they his, or are they saved and on their way to heaven when they die, or not...?

I know a lot, A LOT of people like this... There all around me everywhere... And, I wonder about them, cause I am concerned and care about them... Are they saved or on their way to heaven...?

God Bless!

This simply means God is not #1 in their lives.

You can be a "babe" for a while but at least you're doing something to know more. God sees the passion and we can't deceive God by simply declaring He is #1 in our lives. Our passions in life will show.

Neogaia777 · Aug 25, 2017

timewerx said:
This simply means God is not #1 in their lives.

You can be a "babe" for a while but at least you're doing something to know more. God sees the passion and we can't deceive God by simply declaring He is #1 in our lives. Our passions in life will show.

Not true of all of them... In fact I would say that some of them are even "more saved" (if there is such a thing) than some others with more knowledge than they... Some of them certainly seem to "better people" than some of us...

And some are not even capable of "knowing more", what about them...? I see some of them sticking to a simple truth that seems to evade some of us...

God Bless!

timewerx · Aug 25, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
Not true of all of them... In fact I would say that some of them are even "more saved" (if there is such a thing) than some others with more knowledge than they... Some of them certainly seem to "better people" than some of us...

And some are not even capable of "knowing more", what about them...? I see some of them sticking to a simple truth that seems to evade some of us...

God Bless!

Not every expression of religion is the truth. A lot things being done in church is simply a waste of time.

The mainstream/orthodox view of a "good Christian" may not be the truth.

Neogaia777 · Aug 25, 2017

timewerx said:
Not every expression of religion is the truth. A lot things being done in church is simply a waste of time.

The mainstream/orthodox view of a "good Christian" may not be the truth.

I'm not even talking about "church people"... But people who claim to believe in God of Love, and that God is Love, and showing in their life that they are walking in that love...

Some of the ones I know actually think many church people, and the churches are "evil", or at the very least corrupt and lost, and are the blind leading the blind, and Churches and church people just "rub them the wrong way", and something just seems off or wrong, perhaps even evil about it/them (church and church people)... Most of the people I am talking about don't go to church (or anymore, for those that did, or were raised in it, or use too)...

But, seem to walking in and following love much better than many so-called Christians are...

God Bless!

timewerx · Aug 25, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
I'm not even talking about "church people"... But people who claim to believe in God of Love, and that God is Love, and showing in their life that they are walking in that love...

Some of the ones I know actually think many church people, and the churches are "evil", or at the very least corrupt and lost, and are the blind leading the blind, and Churches and church people just "rub them the wrong way", and something just seems off or wrong, perhaps even evil about it/them (church and church people)... Most of the people I am talking about don't go to church (or anymore, for those that did, or were raised in it, or use too)...

But, seem to walking in and following love much better than many so-called Christians are...

God Bless!

I know what you're talking about.

This is why I have left my denomination. I don't belong to any denomination anymore.

Who then, really can be saved (go to heaven)...? Is it many or few...?

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