That would be a form of universalism.
Anyone who even superficially reads the Bible realizes that though it says Christ paid for the sins of the world, it also says one must repent and believe the gospel message. That is not universalism.That would be a form of universalism.
That's right and that is why I have spent years researching this subject.
Excellent post.No it's not, Hammster. It's your failure to accept that Jesus provided a propitiatory sacrifice for the whole world but only those who accept Jesus by grace through faith are saved.
Your theology does not allow for human beings who reject Jesus' propitiation for them. That's one of the deficiencies in your system -- as well as ULI in TULIP.
Your TULIP Calvinism stumbles over the truth of free will that started at the beginning of time when God gave Adam and Eve the choice of eating or not eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Your hard-headed Calvinism will not allow you to include, Joshua 24:14-15 and mean what it states:
“Now therefore fear the Lord and serve him in sincerity and in faithfulness. Put away the gods that your fathers served beyond the River and in Egypt, and serve the Lord. 15 And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the Lord, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”
I have addressed this situation in my article, Choose does not mean choice! Joshua 24:15.
Your Calvinism stumbles over 'choice' and thus cannot handle the content of 1 John 2:2 (ESV), "He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world".
Oz
I get kind of tired of hearing the same old thing of "misrepresenting Calvinism", because every time I ask or see others ask there is never a straight answer given to show how such misrepresentation is occurring. But I would appreciate if you would explain how the OP misrepresents Calvinism.I can only conclude that you are either a slow Lerner or had poor teachers because your OP misrepresents Calvinism.
Now, a wise man would ask how, and a fool would continue in ignorance to charge ahead after being told something like that.
No. Just because everyone could does not mean everyone would. He made a way anyone could go. That does not mean we don't get to decide. Calvinist doctrine seems to claim that it was decided for us.That would be a form of universalism.
Well, that is the link to the actual source. The quote is by Dave Hunt. The link is to The Berean Call ministry founded by Dave Hunt. Posted today August 24, 2017 by The Berean Call. If it's from an article or book of Dave Hunt's you'll have to do the research on the site to find it.Meaning the actual source. Not a site with a quote.
Not poking eyes I just like to see quotes in context.
Excellent post.
If someone's car breaks down in front of a church and that person goes in, hears the gospel, and gets saved, what determined salvation? The car manufacturer who made junky vehicles? The person for hearing the gospel and deciding to believe?.. Or The God who knew the exact way to unlock that person's mind to the message of salvation and created the exact circumstance for them to hear the message of salvation? In the long chain of causes and effects, there is One who is sovereign over all.
besides condemning millions to eternal damnation with no hope
It is a libel on the character of God to suggest that billions will go to hell simply because God didn’t want them in heaven
God loves the whole world
He sent His Son to redeem the whole world
He wants the whole world to be saved
"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
I really think the worst thing about Calvinism, T.U.L.I.P., or "Doctrines of Grace" (which is an oxymoron and misuse of the word grace), besides condemning millions to eternal damnation with no hope, is the way this theology slanders the character of God.
August 24, 2017
Hunt, Dave
It is a libel on the character of God to suggest that billions will go to hell simply because God didn’t want them in heaven—not because I have made this judgment, but because the Bible itself tells me in the clearest of terms that God loves the whole world, He sent His Son to redeem the whole world, and He wants the whole world to be saved. All other verses about election must take this fact into account.
"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
—1 John:2:2
Apples of Gold - August 24
What does a "propitiation" do? And, if it was done for the "whole world", in the sense that David Hunt means, what would that imply?
Just trying to think it through...
I really think the worst thing about Calvinism, T.U.L.I.P., or "Doctrines of Grace" (which is an oxymoron and misuse of the word grace), besides condemning millions to eternal damnation with no hope, is the way this theology slanders the character of God.
August 24, 2017
Hunt, Dave
It is a libel on the character of God to suggest that billions will go to hell simply because God didn’t want them in heaven—not because I have made this judgment, but because the Bible itself tells me in the clearest of terms that God loves the whole world, He sent His Son to redeem the whole world, and He wants the whole world to be saved. All other verses about election must take this fact into account.
"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
—1 John:2:2
Apples of Gold - August 24
Yeah, Calvinism is pretty out there in left field. Not sure how people can actually buy this type of belief, but yet they do somehow. The problem is that Calvinism seeks to paint God in a bad light (that is not true).
...
That's basically my point.That's outrageously audacious of you Hammster to be so prideful as to say that Dave Hunt, who now is at home with the Lord, is a convinced Calvinist.
Dave Hunt was promoted to glory on April 5, 2013. He now knows what the Bible said is true, not that only Calvinism or only Arminianism is true.
Oz
Sorry, but Jesus didn't "provide" a satisfaction of God's wrath. The verse doesn't say He provided a propitiatory sacrifice. It says He is the propitiation. So any failure to understand what's clearly written is on you.No it's not, Hammster. It's your failure to accept that Jesus provided a propitiatory sacrifice for the whole world but only those who accept Jesus by grace through faith are saved.
Your theology does not allow for human beings who reject Jesus' propitiation for them. That's one of the deficiencies in your system -- as well as ULI in TULIP.
Your TULIP Calvinism stumbles over the truth of free will that started at the beginning of time when God gave Adam and Eve the choice of eating or not eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Your hard-headed Calvinism will not allow you to include, Joshua 24:14-15 and mean what it states:
“Now therefore fear the Lord and serve him in sincerity and in faithfulness. Put away the gods that your fathers served beyond the River and in Egypt, and serve the Lord. 15 And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the Lord, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”
I have addressed this situation in my article, Choose does not mean choice! Joshua 24:15.
Your Calvinism stumbles over 'choice' and thus cannot handle the content of 1 John 2:2 (ESV), "He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world".
Oz
I never said it was. You are moving the goalposts. Let's stick with propitiation, shall we? Or we can talk about "world". Either is good.Anyone who even superficially reads the Bible realizes that though it says Christ paid for the sins of the world, it also says one must repent and believe the gospel message. That is not universalism.