German Parliament Approves Same-Sex Marriage

Gene2memE said:

Please, please, please let it be Australia. We've got a nearly useless postal vote on the subject coming up - cost to taxpayers $122 million - because our Prime Minister is being held hostage on social issues by the conservative/lunatic end of his political party.

I like you Malcom, I really do, but this is something you should have really manned up about.

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I live in Australia and as a Christian and even though I am opposed to same sex marriage, I am against the postal vote.

SkyWriting said:

18 Bible verses about Love Your Neighbour - Knowing Jesus
25 Important Bible Verses About Loving Your Enemies - Bible Reasons

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Thank you. I do have gay friends and have neighbours that are that way too. I do love them. We as Christians can't change them, only God can transform them.

dude99 said:

Thank you. I do have gay friends and have neighbours that are that way too. I do love them. We as Christians can't change them, only God can transform them.

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If they are already with a partner, God would make up rules and forbid them separating or taking new partners that Christians would approve of.

And you'd want to look down their pants or up their skirts, just to make sure new partners were suitable. Oh, and check for any sexual operations either one might have had. Oh and be sure they were both interested and able to reproduce first.

BigDaddy4 said:

Uh, no. "Basic Christianity" does not include government. Jesus didn't live, die, and resurrect to be in government.

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Lets check scripture on that:

Isaiah 9:6
For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Romans 13:1
Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

Psalm 22:28
For the kingdom is the LORD'S And He rules over the nations.

1 Chronicles 29:12
"Both riches and honor come from You, and You rule over all, and in Your hand is power and might; and it lies in Your hand to make great and to strengthen everyone.

2 Chronicles 20:6
and he said, "O LORD, the God of our fathers, are You not God in the heavens? And are You not ruler over all the kingdoms of the nations? Power and might are in Your hand so that no one can stand against You.

Psalm 9:7-8
But the LORD abides forever; He has established His throne for judgment, And He will judge the world in righteousness; He will execute judgment for the peoples with equity.

Exodus 18:21
"Furthermore, you shall select out of all the people able men who fear God, men of truth, those who hate dishonest gain; and you shall place these over them as leaders of thousands, of hundreds, of fifties and of tens.

Desk trauma said:

Where do you find support for democratic governance in the Bible? Especially when the will of the people is contrary to biblical law?

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The last post #44 German Parliament Approves Same-Sex Marriage

SkyWriting said:

The last post #44 German Parliament Approves Same-Sex Marriage

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Not a single word from those verses says a word about democratic government nor that the government should follow the will of the public if it's counter to biblical law.

Desk trauma said:

Not a single word from those verses says a word about democratic government nor that the government should follow the will of the public if it's counter to biblical law.

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Democracy:
Exodus 18:21
"Furthermore, you shall select out of all the people able men who fear God, men of truth, those who hate dishonest gain; and you shall place these over them as leaders of thousands, of hundreds, of fifties and of tens.

John 19:11
Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above. Therefore he who delivered me over to you has the greater sin.”

Judges 21:25
In those days there was no king in Israel. Everyone did what was right in his own eyes.



Law:
Romans 13:1-7
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.

Higher courts, Lower courts:
Exodus 18:26
And they judged the people at all times. Any hard case they brought to Moses, but any small matter they decided themselves.

SkyWriting said:

Lets check scripture on that:

Isaiah 9:6
For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Romans 13:1
Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

Psalm 22:28
For the kingdom is the LORD'S And He rules over the nations.

1 Chronicles 29:12
"Both riches and honor come from You, and You rule over all, and in Your hand is power and might; and it lies in Your hand to make great and to strengthen everyone.

2 Chronicles 20:6
and he said, "O LORD, the God of our fathers, are You not God in the heavens? And are You not ruler over all the kingdoms of the nations? Power and might are in Your hand so that no one can stand against You.

Psalm 9:7-8
But the LORD abides forever; He has established His throne for judgment, And He will judge the world in righteousness; He will execute judgment for the peoples with equity.

Exodus 18:21
"Furthermore, you shall select out of all the people able men who fear God, men of truth, those who hate dishonest gain; and you shall place these over them as leaders of thousands, of hundreds, of fifties and of tens.

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Yes, let's check Scripture. None of the above addresses why Jesus came. Here are some to consider:

John 3:17 - God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

Matt 20:28 - just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.

Luke 4:18 - The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed

Luke 4:43 - But he said, "I must preach the good news of the kingdom of God to the other towns also, because that is why I was sent."

I think you get the idea. No mention of being a government figure in any of his purpose statements.

Desk trauma said:

Not a single word from those verses says a word about democratic government nor that the government should follow the will of the public if it's counter to biblical law.

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Deuteronomy 22:20-21 states:
But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the harlot in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

Please follow the will of the public.

Leviticus 10-11 states:
And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you: They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination

Keep your job at Red Lobster.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 states:
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

"Allow" women to speak anywhere.
Better yet, speak unto women just as you would have women speak unto you.

BigDaddy4 said:

I think you get the idea. No mention of being a government figure in any of his purpose statements.

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Jesus not being a government figure? I have no dispute with your findings.

dude99 said:

I live in Australia and as a Christian and even though I am opposed to same sex marriage

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Then don't do it.
Nobody should ever interfere with your choice on who to marry!



Mathew 7: 12 (The N.T.)
A. In everything then,
B. do unto others
C. as you would have them do unto you.
D. For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets. (The O.T.)

SkyWriting said:

Jesus not being a government figure? I have no dispute with your findings.

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Then why are you arguing that "basic Christianity" includes government?? Being a Christian means one is following Jesus. And if Jesus was not a government figure, then how does being a Christian include government?

SkyWriting said:

Deuteronomy 22:20-21 states:
But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the harlot in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

Please follow the will of the public.

Leviticus 10-11 states:
And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you: They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination

Keep your job at Red Lobster.

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OT rules for the nation of Israel. Not for every government in the world.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 states:
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

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"Allow" women to speak anywhere.
Better yet, speak unto women just as you would have women speak unto you.

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How is the government involved in local church policy?

BigDaddy4 said:

Then why are you arguing that "basic Christianity" includes government?? Being a Christian means one is following Jesus. And if Jesus was not a government figure, then how does being a Christian include government?

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I covered that with 20 scriptural references.
You are correct that none required that Jesus be an elected official
who I'm supposed to follow, I guess?

SkyWriting said:

If they are already with a partner, God would make up rules and forbid them separating or taking new partners that Christians would approve of.

And you'd want to look down their pants or up their skirts, just to make sure new partners were suitable. Oh, and check for any sexual operations either one might have had. Oh and be sure they were both interested and able to reproduce first.

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Any homosexual relation

SkyWriting said:

Then don't do it.
Nobody should ever interfere with your choice on who to marry!



Mathew 7: 12 (The N.T.)
A. In everything then,
B. do unto others
C. as you would have them do unto you.
D. For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets. (The O.T.)

Click to expand...

SkyWriting said:

Then don't do it.
Nobody should ever interfere with your choice on who to marry!



Mathew 7: 12 (The N.T.)
A. In everything then,
B. do unto others
C. as you would have them do unto you.
D. For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets. (The O.T.)

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By legalizing same-sex “marriage,” the State becomes its official and active promoter. Those that are opposed to same sex marriage can loose their jobs. Also opposing views of same sex marriage is cracked down on. It not just the state will intervene in the secular society but within the churches as well. Also there are already countries in Europe where churches are forced to conduct gay marriages. Gay Danish couples win right to marry in church

Nithavela said:

There are some people on christian forums who think that god personally ordains the leader of every nation. So logically, what looks to us like democracy is actually a theocracy in the truest sense of the word.

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I don't know who the "some people" are or what their beliefs are, but as Christians, we are subject to God's authority and, according to the Bible in Romans 13, all governing authorities are established by God. As such, we as Christians are to subject ourselves to those authorities. If you want to call that a theocracy, so be it.

But that still is not the reason Jesus came here, lived, died, and was resurrected. The subject was "basic Christianity" and Jesus in government is not a part of that.

SkyWriting said:

I covered that with 20 scriptural references.
You are correct that none required that Jesus be an elected official
who I'm supposed to follow, I guess?

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Your 7 references did not support the point you were trying to make.

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN said:

People get afraid when people have to treat LBGT with respect. So they wont be able to harass and bully them. And they cant refuse to do business with them.

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QFT. Certain people who are against SSM are no longer being allowed to use their religious beliefs as an excuse to justify their biased views and discrimination against homosexuals and other LGBT. I'm also glad to see that many of these people are being held legally accountable and are facing tougher consequences for discriminating against homosexual couples because of SSM. It's truly pathetic that in our modern advanced world, homosexuals and other LGBT still have to fight for equal rights.

BigDaddy4 said:

OT rules for the nation of Israel. Not for every government in the world.

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The nation of Israel is now all Believers.