Is there a place at the table for white men?

OldWiseGuy said:

Why would people have kids they can't afford to feed.

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Would one Liberal please answer this question is a reasonable and intellectually honest way?

jimmyjimmy said:

Would one Liberal please answer this question is a reasonable and intellectually honest way?

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Their heads are not working correctly.

OldWiseGuy said:

The political table that is. If privileged middle class white men are responsible for the problems of minorities and the poor is there room for well-meaning white men at the table of political discussion. Or are we not welcome there? Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and other activists want a place for minorities at the economic table along with white folks, but do the white folks have to empty their pockets onto the table, and then shut their mouths as well?

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This explains why you and I have no place at the table:

RDKirk said:

Their heads are not working correctly.

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It's a result of some type of brain damage? Is that your position?

Jordan Peterson understands and explains the roots of the problem discussed in this thread.

OldWiseGuy said:

"All" "those" who lost their incomes but kept having kids anyway and are now on welfare because of it.

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Or they have children and lost their incomes, OR they are human beings that have a desire for families.

What the hell kind of a Christian sees a person in poverty, trying to live a life of love, family and decency; whose poverty is largely an effect of systemic circumstance—and decides to blame and put that person down.

Shame on you.

You want someone to attack I'll point you to the usurers profiteering on poverty and misery on Wallstreet.

But no, right wingers love to shame the powerless—go back to reading the gospels.

What you're asking assumes something extremely unchristian—it's assuming that family life, community, love, and so on are commodities, things which one can "afford" or not, a privilege of those who have money.

The question should be why is the richest country in the world organized in such a way to where millions are excluded to the point to where they will have to forgo the most natural and important and sacred aspects of life.

I'm sure it makes you feel good to trash poor people; I wonder what kind of person thinks that way—not someone who is trying to follow Christ seriously.

Folks, please remember to keep the discussion civil; I'd hate to have to get out a mod hat...

jimmyjimmy said:

Jordan Peterson understands and explains the roots of the problem discussed in this thread.

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Jordan Peterson believes in the welfare state. And poor people generally are not college educated and are thus not really that interested in Focualt and the postmodern philosophers. There was poverty before post-modernism by the way.

By the way; YOU (market fundamentalist right wingers) are the real post-modern nihilists: you are the ones saying society has no obligation to the poor and vulnerable.

BTW, this is why People don't want ... not white People ... but People who use social problems as a way to individually blame the poor.

If generals are talking about how to win a war, and someone says "well the soldiers just need to be braver and less scared", that's not useful for anything and it doesn't address the question.

If the city Council is talking about how to raise Money for Schools, if someone comes in and says "well People in Our city are just stingy and they should be more generous and give more Money" ... that person is pointless to the discussion.

If you, as an individual, have someone in Your life making bad decisions, then it's Your Place to help that person With advice and know his circumstance and give him direction. IF you are part of a society, and that society is talking about the social problem of poverty, the question at hand is what can society do to minimize poverty .... "poor People should be less lazy" is not even addressing the question, "don't have kids" is not addressing the issue, it's just blaming individual People (whose circumstances you DO NOT know, and have no WAY of knowing) where it is NOT Your Place, and ignoring the actual obligation of the society to deal With that issue.

That's why People don't want you at the table.

it's not about being "white".

Now IF Your position is, which I suspect is actually the case, "I don't want to be held responsible for the least of those in my society; I have no obligation to the society I am a part of.", then make that case, be honest With what Your saying; don't instead try and shame the most vulnurable in society pretending you are doing so in response to the social issue of poverty.

jimmyjimmy said:

It's a result of some type of brain damage? Is that your position?

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Well, the city exposes them to bad water and bad air from childhood.

But what I mean is Romans 12 has not happened for them, or for the American society around them, and where they are is the result.

It is obvious that many have a distorted view of what "love" is. To many on the Left, love is nothing more than empathy and pity, and I think it's because they are convinced of the victimhood of the "poor"; therefore they treat them strictly as such.

Empathy is certainly important, but it is useless in puling someone out of a ditch. When pulling someone from a ditch, to them it feels to them as though you are trying to rip their arm out of its socket, and they may even cry out in pain as you pull them to safety. Let your immediate reaction to those cries stop you, and you fail to rescue them. Letting pity for temporary discomfort guide you, and you never do anything of value or help anyone else to.

jimmyjimmy said:

It is obvious that many have a distorted view of what "love" is. To many on the Left, love is nothing more than empathy and pity, and I think it's because they are convinced of the victimhood of the "poor"; therefore they treat them strictly as such.

Empathy is certainly important, but it is useless in puling someone out of a ditch. When pulling someone from a ditch, to them it feels to them as though you are trying to rip their arm out of its socket, and they may even cry out in pain as you pull them to safety. Let your immediate reaction to those cries stop you, and you fail to rescue them. Letting pity for temporary discomfort guide you, and you never do anything of value or help anyone else to.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. Terry Pratchett

jimmyjimmy said:

Would one Liberal please answer this question is a reasonable and intellectually honest way?

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I am not a liberal, but could be as easy as how humans were able to not go extinct, an innate desire to multiply and less means for certain groups to practice birth control.

jimmyjimmy said:

It is obvious that many have a distorted view of what "love" is. To many on the Left, love is nothing more than empathy and pity, and I think it's because they are convinced of the victimhood of the "poor"; therefore they treat them strictly as such.

Empathy is certainly important, but it is useless in puling someone out of a ditch. When pulling someone from a ditch, to them it feels to them as though you are trying to rip their arm out of its socket, and they may even cry out in pain as you pull them to safety. Let your immediate reaction to those cries stop you, and you fail to rescue them. Letting pity for temporary discomfort guide you, and you never do anything of value or help anyone else to.

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You telling poor People that they are poor because they deserve to be poor, and that because of that they don't deserve a Family life is not "pulling them out of the ditch".

Here's my point.

There's a Maxim "give a man a Fish he eats for a day, teach a man to Fish he eats for a Lifetime", it's good as far as it goes. But I would add this "make sure the lake is open to all, make sure he has Access to Fishing Equipment and perhaps a boat, and when you see a People hungry rather than yell at them and Call them lazy, without knowing what their circumstances are; make sure that the lake hasn't been privitized and cut off from them and that they haven't lost access to their boats".

It's not "pity" or "empathy", although those Things do come into play, it's a recognition of my obligation as a Christian and a member of a community, and a recognition of the obligation of a community to organize itself in a way that benefits everyone and especially the most vulnurable.

My view of what "love" is comes from the gospel ... period.

"The meaning of life is found in the adoption of personal responsibility." - Jordan Peterson

OldWiseGuy said:

The political table that is. If privileged middle class white men are responsible for the problems of minorities and the poor is there room for well-meaning white men at the table of political discussion. Or are we not welcome there? Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and other activists want a place for minorities at the economic table along with white folks, but do the white folks have to empty their pockets onto the table, and then shut their mouths as well?

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Much of the speech from the Left can be explained as virtue signaling. They proudly gather and display their picket signs declaring, "I'm against poverty", or, "I'm against racism", as if anyone were not against poverty or racism. Their self-congratulatory "resistance" is based on doing nothing more than to Balme others for problems. That is far too easy, and it ignores that fact that evil is not something that is found only in political opponents. Evil is common to mankind.

They create opposition where there is none, and they also engage in Phariseeism while doing so in such a public manner. The fact that their displays are loud and public goes directly against Christ's commands to pray, and give in secret. Doing these things in order to be seen as good, as righteous, ignores the grace of God in Christ.

OldWiseGuy said:

God also said,
Proverbs 24:27
Prepare thy work without, and make it fit for thyself in the field; and afterwards build thine house.

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Within he context of a society that puts the needs of the poor first. Remember the reason (according to Jeremiah) that the Jews were taken to Babylon, it was ignoring the Jubilee, according to Ezekiel the reason Sodom was destroyed was their societies disregarding the wellbeing of the poor and vulnerable.

Proverbs 24:27 is personal advice, good advice; not social policy.

jimmyjimmy said:

Much of the speech from the Left can be explained as virtue signaling. They proudly gather and display their picket signs declaring, "I'm against poverty", or, "I'm against racism", as if anyone is not against poverty or racism. Their self-congratulatory "resistance" is based on doing nothing more than to Balme others for problems. That is far too easy, and it ignores that fact that evil is not something that is found only in political opponents. Evil is common to mankind.

They create opposition where there is none, and they also engage in Phariseeism while doing so in such a public manner. The fact that their displays are loud and public goes directly against Christ's commands to pray, and give in secret. Doing these things to be seen as good, as righteous, ignores the grace of God in Christ.

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You're partially right and partially wrong—the left that gets media attention are the loud idiots, but there are many in the broader left doing great work in silent.

Just like many conservative evangelicals are doing great work for the poor which the media ignores; and rather focuses on what gets people riled up.