The new covenant

stuart lawrence said:

I would like to hear people's views on the following concerning the New Covenant. Though it is repeated from Jeremiah 31:31-34, the writer of hebrews obviously feels this is the essence of it:

This is the covenant I will make with them after that time says the Lord
I will write my laws in their minds
And place them on their hearts
Then he adds
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more
Heb10:16&17

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I think the New Covenant is great!

stuart lawrence said:

I would like to hear people's views on the following concerning the New Covenant. Though it is repeated from Jeremiah 31:31-34, the writer of hebrews obviously feels this is the essence of it:

This is the covenant I will make with them after that time says the Lord
I will write my laws in their minds
And place them on their hearts
Then he adds
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more
Heb10:16&17

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The New Covenant is what the Mosaic Covenant was originally intended to be. There are many verses that describe the Mosaic Covenant as being a marriage between God and His chosen people, such as with God describing Himself as her husband in Jeremiah 31:32 and with Israel's unfaithfulness being described as adultery, which eventually got so bad that God wrote the Northern Kingdom a certificate of divorce. So the Mosaic Covenant is about God wanting an intimate relation with His people and instructing them how to grow in this relationship. However, they did not end up with the covenant that God originally wanted. That covenant was based upon the condition that they would hear and obey God's voice (Exodus 19:5), but upon hearing God's voice, they wanted a different covenant where God would speak to Moses and they would listen to him instead, which God nevertheless agreed to. So this is exactly like a man proposing to his girlfriend, her agreeing, and then on her wedding day deciding that she only wanted to interact with her husband through a mediator, which he nevertheless agreed to. While Moses was a great man, he was not omnipresent, so this was less than ideal and quickly led to problems that would not have happened if the people had been listening to God's voice. It became necessary for Moses to write down God's instructions for how to walk in God's ways in lieu of the people being instructed by God's voice as a nation of priests. In the New Covenant, man will again have this intimate relationship with God where we will hear God's voice teach us how to walk in God ways and will not need to be instructed by other men in regard to how to have this relationship with God.

As I mentioned in, Jeremiah 3:1-14, God wrote the Northern Kingdom a certificate of divorce, yet he continued to call for her to return to him. However, there was a serious problem with this because according to Deuteronomy 24:1-4, a wife could not return to her original husband after she had been divorced and been with another, so it was a mystery how God would accomplish this. This is the point that Paul was getting at in Romans 7:1-4, where we have died to the law of our husband through the death of Christ so that we might be free to belong to another, to him whom God raised from the death that we might bear fruit for God. So the Mosaic and New Covenants are about God's marriage, divorce, and remarriage to Israel.

Thank God, our Father, for the New Covenant, Which is Y'shua, Jesus Christ our Lord. Without it, none of us would be getting back home to our Father.

stuart lawrence said:

I would like to hear people's views on the following concerning the New Covenant. Though it is repeated from Jeremiah 31:31-34, the writer of hebrews obviously feels this is the essence of it:

This is the covenant I will make with them after that time says the Lord
I will write my laws in their minds
And place them on their hearts
Then he adds
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more
(Heb.10:16 & 17)

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'This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord,
I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.'
(Heb 10:16-17)

Hello @stuart lawrence,

This verse is being quoted by Paul (a Hebrew believer) to Hebrew believers.

'And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation;
even as our beloved brother Paul also
according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things;
in which are some things hard to be understood,
which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest,
as they do also the other scriptures,
unto their own destruction.'
(2 Pet. 3:15,16)

* They would be acquainted with this verse from Jeremiah 31:31-34: for as the Old Covenant was made with the children of Israel, so the New Covenant will be made with them.

* The church which is the Body of Christ, which is the subject of Eph, Phil. Col. 1&2 Tim, and Titus, was not under the Old Covenant, and neither will it be under the New Covenant, for it is a new creation, independent of Israel as a nation. A spiritual company, with spiritual blessings, and a heavenly sphere for their fulfilment in resurrection life.

* This is quoted because of the words, 'Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more' particularly, for the context required it:-

'Now where remission of these is,
there is no more offering for sin.'
(Heb 10:18)

In Christ Jesus
Chris

stuart lawrence said:

Weren't the Corinthians gentiles?

You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but the spirit of the living God. Not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts
2 Cor.3:3

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Hello, Stuart,

Thank you for responding so swiftly.

The letter to the Corinthians was written prior to the revelation of God, which was given to the Apostle Paul, concerning the mystery of Ephesians 3:6, which had been 'hid in God', until it's revelation, and made known to Paul exclusively. He was given a dispensation of grace, and made Steward of this mystery, to make it's administration and application known (Eph. 3:9), which he did in the later epistles, written whilst in prison, namely Ephesians, Philippians, Colossions, 1 & 2 Timothy and Titus. These have application to the Church which is the Body of Christ specifically.

The believers in Corinth had been baptised into, and identified with the Olive Tree of Israel, therefore part of the New Covenant, along with the redeemed of Israel. They were grafted in to make Israel jealous, and to cause them to emulate them, repent and acknowledge the Lord Jesus Christ as their Messiah, which would bring in the return of Christ (Acts 3:19,20), and the Millennial reign in which the New Covenant would have it's place, with the restoration of Israel.

However, Israel did not repent, and at Acts 28, they were laid aside in unbelief (temporarily), following the quoting of Isaiah 6, by Paul. Therefore the New Covenant is in abeyance, along with the hope of Israel, until the Lord's return, and the repentance and restoration of Israel.

Following this, unto this day, the church which is the Body of Christ, the fullness of Him that filleth all in all (Eph. 1:21-23), is being called out. They are a new creation, a spiritual company, in Christ Jesus, in which they are united, (a joint body), for they are One Body, in Christ.

Praise God!

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

stuart lawrence said:

I'm placing you on ignore. I am here for serious debate

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Hello Stuart,

You must do what you think is right. May the Lord's will be done, for His Name and Glory's sake.

With love to you,
In Christ Jesus
Chris

stuart lawrence said:

I would like to hear people's views on the following concerning the New Covenant. Though it is repeated from Jeremiah 31:31-34, the writer of hebrews obviously feels this is the essence of it:

This is the covenant I will make with them after that time says the Lord
I will write my laws in their minds
And place them on their hearts
Then he adds
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more
Heb10:16&17

Click to expand...

David H. J. Ministry (Short Articles on the New Covenant)
David H J Gay Ministry

The New Covenant: Bob George

Overview of Covenants: Abraham to Christ, David H J Gay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNNhOkFk-2g

.

I think you need to keep reading from Jeremiah 31 through the next three chapters. The better promises of the new covenant are detailed in these chapters:

• I will put my Torah within them.
  
  
• I will write my Torah on their hearts.
  
  
• All Israel will “know the LORD.”
  
  
• I will forgive their wickedness.
  
  
• I will not remember their sins.
  
  
• Israel will never cease to be a nation before God.
  
  
• I will never reject the seed of Israel.
  
  
• I will rebuild Jerusalem as an eternal structure.
  
  
• The entire city will be holy to the LORD.
  
  
• The Messiah will rule on David’s throne.
  
  
• The Levitical priesthood will serve in the Temple before me.
  

Tree of Life said:

I think the New Covenant is great!

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I do as well! Contrary to some misconceptions, it is a new national covenant to replace the Mosaic covenant and is said as much in the following verse... Jeremiah 31:32. It is not the covenant that those of the Body of Messiah have with Him. The rest of the passage is confirming that Israel will remain a nation before the Lord as long as the sun rises, the waves roar on the shore, and the moon reflects light at night.

Hebrews was mentioned. And what is the book of Hebrews? Just what the title says! Right out of the gate it says that it is directed at Hebrews, and It is virtually pure apologetic directed at Hebrews trying to convince them of the merits of Messiah. To support that contention, the writer says:

Hebrews 3:1 (NKJV) Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus,

Israel is a holy nation (Exodus 19:6) and these Hebrews the letter is directed at are partakers of the heavenly calling of Israel, therefore the writer calling them holy brethren (like Peter called the Jews in Jerusalem on Shavuot/Pentacost) is apropos. And then the writer wants them to consider Yeshua. It wouldn't make sense of him to ask those who already believe in Messiah to consider Him, would it? Like asking someone who is already married to consider marriage!

The writer is trying to convince them there is a better covenant thru Yeshua now available to them than the Mosaic covenant made with their fathers.

stuart lawrence said:

I would like to hear people's views on the following concerning the New Covenant. Though it is repeated from Jeremiah 31:31-34, the writer of hebrews obviously feels this is the essence of it:

This is the covenant I will make with them after that time says the Lord
I will write my laws in their minds
And place them on their hearts
Then he adds
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more
Heb10:16&17

Click to expand...

That is Hebrews reminding of what was said in the Old Covenant and that Jesus Christ offered this

ToBeLoved said:

That is Hebrews reminding of what was said in the Old Covenant and that Jesus Christ offered this

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Right. Jeremiah 31. Folks tend to leave out the verses in that passage that state, not like the Covenant made with their fathers. It is directed at the Hebrew people specifically.

While in Judaism the word "Torah" is used to refer to the Pentateuch it should be kept in mind that it is not uniquely the name of those first five writings of Scripture.

The word actually only means "a precept or law" and just because we Jews have chosen to make that word seem rather unique to the Pentateuch or Old Covenant does not mean that every time the Scriptures use that word that the Old Covenant Laws are what is being referred to.

Buzz_B said:

While in Judaism the word "Torah" is used to refer to the Pentateuch it should be kept in mind that it is not uniquely the name of those first five writings of Scripture.

The word actually only means "a precept or law" and just because we Jews have chosen to make that word seem rather unique to the Pentateuch or Old Covenant does not mean that every time the Scriptures use that word that the Old Covenant Laws are what is being referred to.

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You would be correct that it doesn't only mean the writings of Moses. But conversely, it doesn't necessarily mean only precept or law, though it includes that idea. Actually it is more closely associated with "instruction" or "teaching". It has its roots in the word yarah which is the word for teacher. In the Psalms, many passages give us this idea that Torah is more closely associated with instruction, guidance, teaching, etc. This is why David could exclaim how he loved the Torah. In a more western mindset, we see law as some rigid thing and we couldn't think of saying something like, "how I love the speed limit laws. They refresh my soul". But David could say that about the Torah because Torah is not looked at as a bunch of rigid laws.

Pick up a Jewish New Testament or Complete Jewish Bible (it is in English) and read passages, like in Romans, where the Law of the Spirit is used in traditional translations is changed to the "Torah of the Spirit". It has a better allusion than "LAW" and seems to express in English more clearly what Paul is trying to say. For example:

Romans 8:1-4 (Complete Jewish Bible) Therefore, there is no longer any condemnation awaiting those who are in union with the Messiah Yeshua. 2 Why? Because the Torah of the Spirit, which produces this life in union with Messiah Yeshua, has set me free from the “torah” of sin and death. 3 For what the Torah could not do by itself, because it lacked the power to make the old nature cooperate, God did by sending his own Son as a human being with a nature like our own sinful one [but without sin]. God did this in order to deal with sin, and in so doing he executed the punishment against sin in human nature, 4 so that the just requirement of the Torah might be fulfilled in us who do not run our lives according to what our old nature wants but according to what the Spirit wants.

Yes, that is a fuller understanding of the word, "Torah." I just clipped the phrase, "a precept or law", from the dictionary I had at hand. My point is merely that we ought not to take it as meaning that the Old Law Covenant itself is what is being written to our hearts. That would be little different than the rote memorizing of that Old Covenant Law which has been done for thousands of years now.

All things are being made new. Not the old things revamped. It is all literally a new creation compared to what has been since the day that Adam sinned. And in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in union with Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:28)

The point is not about individuals so much as we tend to like to think of it as being. The point is about the recreation of that ONE NEW MAN spoken of at Ephesians 2:15. That ONE NEW MAN represents the replacement Adam with all the seed that died in Adam being brought back to life in that ONE NEW MAN, the last Adam, Jesus Christ.

Had Adam remained faithful, he would have been the judge of the seed in him and that seed would have been born with the best chance of getting life right in the eyes of God. Any that may have rebelled would have been put to death without hesitation or question, as there would be no feuding about what God's standards are. Likewise, all in the last Adam are judged of Christ:
"But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ." Romans 14:10

Buzz_B said:

While in Judaism the word "Torah" is used to refer to the Pentateuch it should be kept in mind that it is not uniquely the name of those first five writings of Scripture.

The word actually only means "a precept or law" and just because we Jews have chosen to make that word seem rather unique to the Pentateuch or Old Covenant does not mean that every time the Scriptures use that word that the Old Covenant Laws are what is being referred to.

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Sounds like you have your own language that is very confusing. Maybe that is to cover multiple bases.

Using Torah, Pentateuch and Old Covenant, I've heared Torah used to refer to the first 5 books, now it's the entire Old Covenant. Confusing.

ToBeLoved said:

Sounds like you have your own language that is very confusing. Maybe that is to cover multiple bases.

Using Torah, Pentateuch and Old Covenant, I've heared Torah used to refer to the first 5 books, now it's the entire Old Covenant. Confusing.

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The first five books do contain the entire Old Covenant. From there forward are just details of various kings and prophets who acted under that Old Covenant.

Why are all these things listed separately, as follows:

2 Kings 17:34 Unto this day they do after the former manners: they fear not the LORD, neither do they after their statutes, or after their ordinances, or after the law<torah) and commandment which the LORD commanded the children of Jacob, whom he named Israel;

2 Kings 17:37 And the statutes, and the ordinances, and the law<(torah), and the commandment, which he wrote for you, ye shall observe to do for evermore; and ye shall not fear other gods.

Buzz_B said:

The first five books do contain the entire Old Covenant. From there forward are just details of various kings and prophets who acted under that Old Covenant.

Why are all these things listed separately, as follows:

2 Kings 17:34 Unto this day they do after the former manners: they fear not the LORD, neither do they after their statutes, or after their ordinances, or after the law<torah) and commandment which the LORD commanded the children of Jacob, whom he named Israel;

2 Kings 17:37 And the statutes, and the ordinances, and the law<(torah), and the commandment, which he wrote for you, ye shall observe to do for evermore; and ye shall not fear other gods.

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There not in the version I looked at.

What version did you get these from?