Water Baptism and Salvation

No. However, a Christian should want to be baptized, especially if nothing prevents it. There are different beliefs within Christianity about infant baptism and what baptism itself accomplishes. Whichever side one aligns with on what baptism brings or effects in us, it would be hard to argue from Scripture and church tradition that baptism can be optional.

Hello, Liam, and welcome to CF!

You will get all sorts of answers, I am sure, because people have many disagreements on this. The problem is that the answer is nuanced, and the shorter the answer, the easier it is to misunderstand.

The early Church did teach that baptism "saves". However ... what that really meant is that people were baptized for the remission of their sins (this is written in the Nicene-Constantinople Creed, which has been the "definition" of Christian faith for many centuries, against a variety of early heresies). Baptism is also the normal way one enters the Church, which is the Body of Christ. (Many modern denominations who now deny that baptism does anything still require it as "entry" into their church, so they retain that much.)

Can God save without baptism? There were early martyrs, killed for their faith in gruesome ways, that demonstrated such faith, joy, consolation, etc. that their very tormentors believed and converted, and were killed on the spot, never having been baptized. But we of course believe they are now with Christ, having died for their new-found faith.

We (Orthodox, which is the ancient Church) believe that baptism is a means of God's grace. That God gives grace through baptism. Grace is absolutely necessary to be saved! However, it is not the ONLY means of grace, and God is not limited. However again, read the Scriptures ... in every case, when people became Christians, they were baptized. It was never skipped over or dismissed by choice. Ever.

If we simply choose not to be baptized ... well, I can't tell you. Only God judges salvation. But if it were me, I would want to carefully examine the heart and the reasons for not wanting to be baptized. Those reasons may well be preventing salvation.

Simply, if you are Christian, do what the Christians did. Be baptized, in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Which brings me to something else I wish to say kindly, but it is important and must be said. There are many denominations, all of them having elements of truth, and I believe all sincerely seeking God. However, there are a very few who have changed so much what they believe about who God is, and some important matters, that they are a great concern to Christianity, and Jehovah's Witnesses are one of these. They cannot affirm the basic beliefs that have defined Christianity from the earliest time, so I would urge you to have great caution in what you receive from this friend. I am sorry to have to make that warning, but there are some really important differences about Who Christ is, and if belief in Christ saves us, we do not want to risk getting that wrong.

I pray God will guide you and your mother. And again, welcome to CF!

God be with you.

Liammansfield20 said:

Hello brothers and sisters! New to this, so i'm not sure if i have posted this in the correct place, please move if needed.


I have a question both me and my mother are confused on. This question is "Do you need Water baptism to receive salvation?"

The reason we are both confused is because my mother has a christian friend who's a Jehovah Witness who teaches us we need water baptism or we are not saved.

I have found multiple verse, which confuse both of us, and i am seeking some help.

If water baptism is needed, what do these verses mean?

(ESV)

Ephesians 2:8–9 "8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

John 3:16 "16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

Titus 3:5 "16 "5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, "

Acts 16:30–31 "30 Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Our Jehovah witness friend showed me a verse which is confusing according to the above verses:

(ESV)

1 Peter 3:17-22: 20 because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.
21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,


Is Water baptism needed for salvation?

Thank you!

Liam ,

Click to expand...

Liammansfield20 said:

Hello brothers and sisters! New to this, so i'm not sure if i have posted this in the correct place, please move if needed.


I have a question both me and my mother are confused on. This question is "Do you need Water baptism to receive salvation?"

The reason we are both confused is because my mother has a christian friend who's a Jehovah Witness who teaches us we need water baptism or we are not saved.

I have found multiple verse, which confuse both of us, and i am seeking some help.

If water baptism is needed, what do these verses mean?

(ESV)

Ephesians 2:8–9 "8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

John 3:16 "16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

Titus 3:5 "16 "5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, "

Acts 16:30–31 "30 Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Our Jehovah witness friend showed me a verse which is confusing according to the above verses:

(ESV)

1 Peter 3:17-22: 20 because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.
21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,


Is Water baptism needed for salvation?

Thank you!

Liam ,

Click to expand...

Baptism through dunking, sprinkling, or misting (my favorite, I invented it)
are not required to be saved.

Luk 8:50
But, Jesus, hearing, answered him - Do not fear!
Only believe, and she shall be saved.

Liammansfield20 said:

Hello brothers and sisters! New to this, so i'm not sure if i have posted this in the correct place, please move if needed.


I have a question both me and my mother are confused on. This question is "Do you need Water baptism to receive salvation?"

The reason we are both confused is because my mother has a christian friend who's a Jehovah Witness who teaches us we need water baptism or we are not saved.

I have found multiple verse, which confuse both of us, and i am seeking some help.

If water baptism is needed, what do these verses mean?

(ESV)

Ephesians 2:8–9 "8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

John 3:16 "16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

Titus 3:5 "16 "5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, "

Acts 16:30–31 "30 Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Our Jehovah witness friend showed me a verse which is confusing according to the above verses:

(ESV)

1 Peter 3:17-22: 20 because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.
21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,


Is Water baptism needed for salvation?

Thank you!

Liam ,

Click to expand...

You might be even more confused after reading many opposing views on the subject here

A man is powerfully convicted of his sin by the Holy Spirit. He sinks to his knees, tears streaming down his cheeks and cries out to God for the forgiveness of his sins. He asks Christ to be Lord and Saviour of his life.

How will God respond?
Will he say to the man:

I will forgive you, but not yet, only once you have been baptised in water.

Doesn't sound right to me

As you have seen by the responses there are several views based on a detailed study of the scriptures.

Catholic and Orthodox would argue that baptism is a means of grace, and as a result you need to do it in order to be transformed to become Christian.

Protestants hold baptism to be commanded but not a means of grace, generally speaking.

Here is a link that deals with the topic more fully, surveying the various views. As well as a discussion of sacraments vs ordinances.

Transcript: Doctrine of the Church (part 1) | Reasonable Faith

Liammansfield20 said:

Hello brothers and sisters! New to this, so i'm not sure if i have posted this in the correct place, please move if needed.


I have a question both me and my mother are confused on. This question is "Do you need Water baptism to receive salvation?"

No.
Baptism: Romans 6:3-4, Colossians 2:11-12, Galatians 3:26-27

The reason we are both confused is because my mother has a christian friend who's a Jehovah Witness who teaches us we need water baptism or we are not saved.
JW's beliefs differ as do their bibles...which be printed to suit their doctrines.

I have found multiple verse, which confuse both of us, and i am seeking some help.

If water baptism is needed, what do these verses mean?

(ESV)

Ephesians 2:8–9 "8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

John 3:16 "16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

Titus 3:5 "16 "5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, "

Acts 16:30–31 "30 Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Our Jehovah witness friend showed me a verse which is confusing according to the above verses:

(ESV)

1 Peter 3:17-22: 20 because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.
21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Is Water baptism needed for salvation?

Thank you!

Liam ,

Click to expand...

Let's look at more of the scripture ...1 Peter 3:17-22
"For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water."
"Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to Him."

*All Peter be saying, is that the baptism that saves is the one preceded by faith in Jesus' sacrifice for the sinner.
Prior to the flood happening Noah told people what God was going to do, the people didn't believe it and they mocked and went on about their lives.
The unbelievers perished in the flood, the believers were saved from the flood
because they believed God.

When was the criminal below baptized?

Luke 23:39-43

39 Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.”

40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” 42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”

43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

SkyWriting said:

Baptism through dunking, sprinkling, or misting (my favorite, I invented it)
are not required to be saved.

Luk 8:50
But, Jesus, hearing, answered him - Do not fear!
Only believe, and she shall be saved.

Click to expand...

Um...that's "only believe and she will be made well" in the context of her dying...

Context is key.

SkyWriting said:

Baptism through dunking, sprinkling, or misting (my favorite, I invented it)
are not required to be saved.

Luk 8:50
But, Jesus, hearing, answered him - Do not fear!
Only believe, and she shall be saved.

Click to expand...

Not to mention it is another person believing - not the girl herself.

JayW said:

When was the criminal below baptized?

Luke 23:39-43

39 Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.”

40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” 42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”

43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

Click to expand...

Probably got sent to paradise via a quick stop off in purgatory

Liammansfield20 said:

Hello brothers and sisters! New to this, so i'm not sure if i have posted this in the correct place, please move if needed.


I have a question both me and my mother are confused on. This question is "Do you need Water baptism to receive salvation?"

The reason we are both confused is because my mother has a christian friend who's a Jehovah Witness who teaches us we need water baptism or we are not saved.

I have found multiple verse, which confuse both of us, and i am seeking some help.

If water baptism is needed, what do these verses mean?

(ESV)

Ephesians 2:8–9 "8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

John 3:16 "16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

Titus 3:5 "16 "5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, "

Acts 16:30–31 "30 Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Our Jehovah witness friend showed me a verse which is confusing according to the above verses:

(ESV)

1 Peter 3:17-22: 20 because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.
21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,


Is Water baptism needed for salvation?

Thank you!

Liam ,

Click to expand...

Salvation can be found here : 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
It's free gift , you take it and it's your can't lose it .

Since it's free gift it's free ( i know simple but .. ) , if you had to wash my car for it then it would not be free right ? It could not be gift this way.

Now replace car with yourself , if you had to wash yourself to get gift from God then it would not be gift right ?

But then what baptism is ?
Baptism is declaration to you and people in your church that you accepted Christ . It's like you put ring on your finger while you marry your wife , same goes for baptism , it's declaration that you accepted Christ to people around you. You don't have to do this but might aswell
Personally i did not and im 100% sure im saved .

Baptism is reference to death when you go under water , then short while when you are under water is meaning of 3 day when Jesus was dead and then when you come out is "resurrection" just like Christ resurrection .

"Of the doctrine of baptisms ,..." (Heb 6:2) Baptism means union and identification.

3 baptisms; specifically:

- By The Holy Spirit into Jesus (blood baptism)
- By believer (water baptism - can be the 2nd or 3rd baptism)
- By Jesus with or into The Holy Spirit (The Spirit baptism - can be the 2nd or 3rd baptism)

"And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." I John 5:7-8

Blood baptism (Rev 1:5; Matt 26:28; Mark 1:4, 16:16; Luk 3:3; 1 Cor 12:13: Acts 2:38: Gal 3:27, ++)
Water baptism (Matt 3:11; 28:19; Acts 8:36-39++)
Spirit baptism (Matt 3:11; Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16; Acts 11:16++)

Many denominations acknowledge water and spirit baptism (the latter is without water). Why not consider blood baptism as the first baptism when we become believers?

Of course, if we could all agree on these 3 baptisms, we wouldn't have all these discussions about
water being part of salvation which is based on Yeshua's cross and resurrection.

You might want to do a search on JW online and on how they flat out disagree with the Bible. Just starting with the word "Jehovah" there is a big problem. The JW prophet made a big deal out of teaching them the "real" name of the Almighty. However there is no J in Hebrew! In the ancient Hebrew texts we see the Name given to Moses at the burning bush was YHWH, pronounced, per my research, Yahuah, though some think Yahweh.

Of course some can get to Heaven without Baptism. The thief on the cross did. Babies who die early do. BUT we are told to be baptized, so if possible, we need to always be obedient to the Father and not miss any blessings. And the original meaning of the word "baptize" means immersion, not sprinkling.

These Gentiles in Acts 10 received the gift of the Holy Spirit and were manifesting the spiritual gift of tongues (which is only for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) after believing the gospel but before being water baptized (Acts 10:44-48). This observation needs to be balanced, by the fact that baptism was not considered an "optional extra" for these Gentiles. It was a command (verse 48) that they were expected to obey. However, it was not obedience to this command that saved them, but their believing in Christ (verse 43).

There are a multitude of verses that make it clear salvation is through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications" (Luke 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39: 16:31; Romans 3:22-28; 4:5; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8 etc..) There are a handful of verses that "on the surface" may appear to teach that baptism is necessary for salvation, yet a careful examination of each of those texts in context will show that none of them prove that baptism is absolutely required for salvation, though they do prove that baptism is an initiatory response to the gospel of salvation. In other words, these texts prove only that baptism is regularly associated with conversion and salvation, rather than absolutely required for salvation.

LoricaLady said:

You might want to do a search on JW online and on how they flat out disagree with the Bible. Just starting with the word "Jehovah" there is a big problem. The JW prophet made a big deal out of teaching them the "real" name of the Almighty. However there is no J in Hebrew! In the ancient Hebrew texts we see the Name given to Moses at the burning bush was YHWH, pronounced, per my research, Yahuah, though some think Yahweh.

Of course some can get to Heaven without Baptism. The thief on the cross did. Babies who die early do. BUT we are told to be baptized, so if possible, we need to always be obedient to the Father and not miss any blessings. And the original meaning of the word "baptize" means immersion, not sprinkling.

Click to expand...

I wonder why people call it unpronouncable name , Jews would not read it or read separate letters .
However when God said his name to Moses he had to pronounce it somehow , maybe he gave it to him letter by letter aswell who knows .

I agree with YHWH tho , don't like this sentence Jehovah , is has 6 letters inside sounds bad for me , same as Yeshua so i don't know . I like to call Christ Jesus - 5 letters sounds good for me or Yehoshuah - 8 letters .

But even if you don't know name you can just use your hearth and pray to the God of Abraham , Isaak and Jacob , God himself call himself this way . Matthew 22:32

dupl

Welcome to CF! We are glad that you've joined us.

Amazing Horse said:

However when God said his name to Moses he had to pronounce it somehow , maybe he gave it to him letter by letter aswell who knows .

Click to expand...

The name given to Moses was a form of "I Am".


Again, welcome to CF!

Amazing Horse said:

I wonder why people call it unpronouncable name , Jews would not read it or read separate letters .
However when God said his name to Moses he had to pronounce it somehow , maybe he gave it to him letter by letter aswell who knows .

I agree with YHWH tho , don't like this sentence Jehovah , is has 6 letters inside sounds bad for me , same as Yeshua so i don't know . I like to call Christ Jesus - 5 letters sounds good for me or Yehoshuah - 8 letters .

But even if you don't know name you can just use your hearth and pray to the God of Abraham , Isaak and Jacob , God himself call himself this way . Matthew 22:32

Click to expand...

It is a custom of many Jews to make saying the Name forbidden.
That injunction seems to have started in the Babylonian captivity when some Pharisees thought the heathen should not use the Name. However, all through the Bible we see the real name being used literally thousands of times. Yes, Moses spoke it. The Messiah spoke it and they tried to stone Him when He did, after saying, "Before Abrham, Yahuah", translated not really correctly to "Before Abraham I am."

We are to say the Name. It was given to us with Moses. It is a gift, a blessing. We are to reject traditions of men and follow just the examples in the Bible. Every time you see "the Lord" in English translations, the real word is YHWH, from the original texts they used.

Yes, most of all the prayers have to be from the heart. Of course our Heavenly Father and Yahushuah, aka Jesus, have answered countless prayers with the English, or other nationalities', names. But I feel sure He would prefer us to use the real Names when we know them.
I like to use the word Abba, as Yahushuah did, meaning Daddy in Hebrew.