Head of state like Nero, Un, Mao, Stalin, Obama, God's choice?
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SeventyOne
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Can you come up with any passage to indicate they would be any different? I can't.
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Strathos
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Well elected rulers weren't really a thing back in Biblical times. So the passages regarding governments are mostly about monarchies as that was the most prevalent form of government at the time.
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sethrak
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he removeth kings, and setteth up kings; he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that have understanding;
I'm sure He does~and has in many cases~but not each and every```
I'm sure He does~and has in many cases~but not each and every```
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SeventyOne
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The point was He sets up and gets rid of rulers. Again, I can't think of any passage that indicates God changes his style based on the form of the government. Can you?
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Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4
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Romans 9:17
God used them for judgement on Jews , WWI was to make space for Jews , WWII was to force Jews away from Europe so they return to thier land .
God used them for judgement on Jews , WWI was to make space for Jews , WWII was to force Jews away from Europe so they return to thier land .
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I do not believe God sent 6 million of his chosen people to the gas chamber to make a point for them to return to their homeland. There must be many more merciful ways of making a point.
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Head of state like Nero, Un, Mao, Stalin, Obama, God's choice?
Well, maybe President Obama.
To be more honest, I do not believe that God ever intervenes in managing our world. Any effect God has on this world is in a spiritual sense --- he operates by and through us.
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Is a distinction to be made involving several facets of God's will? If so then relative to given "leaders/rulers" and specific circumstances/events does not God's permissive will need to enter the discussion?
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SeventyOne
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Yup. All that means is it's easier for God to install or remove an elected leader (as if even the removal of a king would be something difficult for Him). I see places in scripture where God places people in power and removes them. I don't see anywhere where a leader is installed outside His will, or any place where He gives up that ability due to a change in the type of government.
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I agree, but one needs to make the distinction between what God permits and what God decrees. It is certainly all within his sovereignty but there is a considerable difference between His permissive and efficacious will. So that those in authority are often a "human" choice under God's permissive will.
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SeventyOne
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...wouldn't the whole American Revolution then make America a non-Christian nation because they rebelled against their rightful monarch? Sort of making Benedict Arnold one of the good guys?
tulc(is just wondering)
No. Why would you think that?
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SeventyOne
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Ok, I'm fine with that if you can show me the passage where He allows leaders under His permissive will?
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