Head of state like Nero, Un, Mao, Stalin, Obama, God's choice?

GoldenKingGaze · Aug 19, 2017

In the word of God, such as Romans 13, and by the example of Daniel in the Old Testament, whoever is in power seems to be appointed by God. Some were alright while others were grossly wicked. How can this be?

Was Paul before Nero rightly tormented or was Paul to convert Nero, or was Nero the wrong man? If Nero was converted by Paul, it would demonstrate healing, did Paul fall short? Bonhoeffer demonstrated it was right to lie to the authorities. But was a bit too honest and did not take an opportunity to escape and was hung one month before Germany was liberated.

I think Dr Carson ought to have been the USA's first black president.

President's backing abortion, 61,000,000 babies aborted?
WW2 and Hitler, and Churchill taking over after France was blunder lost.
Stalin ruled Russia, millions died. Hitler Nero and Stalin had in common, criminal insanity.

I think heads of state must sometimes be the wrong people.

Strathos · Aug 19, 2017

One of these things is not like the other things...

seeking.IAM · Aug 19, 2017

I would have voted "no" if OP wouldn't have added the embellishment.

GoldenKingGaze · Aug 19, 2017

Strathos said:
One of these things is not like the other things...

You mean Churchill and Obama were not criminally insane? I agree, Churchill did good work, and Obama some good and some support of big business abortion. Pre-Churchill was a UK PM who was too nice, holding out the olive branch.

GoldenKingGaze · Aug 19, 2017

seeking.IAM said:
I would have voted "no" if OP wouldn't have added the embellishment.

Embellishment? What did I miss?

seeking.IAM · Aug 19, 2017

GoldenKingGaze said:
Embellishment? What did I miss?

"Some are imposters, sons of the Devil." I would have liked to have voted "no" without endorsing that statement. I don't believe God chooses heads of state, good or bad. I also don't think heads of state I don't like are imposters, sons of the Devil.

GoldenKingGaze · Aug 19, 2017

seeking.IAM said:
"Some are imposters, sons of the Devil." I would have liked to have voted "no" without endorsing that statement. I don't believe God chooses heads of state, good or bad. I also don't think heads of state I don't like are imposters, sons of the Devil.

Fixed it.

seeking.IAM · Aug 19, 2017

Why not just yes, sometimes, and no? . How can one have two picks on such a poll? Forgive me, maybe I'm just being cranky. I guess I don't want to play, but, have fun. :wave:

sethrak · Aug 19, 2017

You decide ~ who ever is in power in government or the boss where you work do you think God Chose them~I'm sure he may now and then~maybe however he permits or doesn't stop someone from gaining power~not the same thing is it. Not everything said is absolute~like the governor of your state~did God choose him?

It was/is though be some that if The Lord doesn't stop someone from gaining power He's giving them the power~think about it~I wouldn't mind hearing what you come up with~and see also if once you decide~will you think that next year```

I think he permits~does not interfere~in some cases~ but if asked he will~according to his will```

seth

SeventyOne · Aug 19, 2017

Daniel 2:21 says it's the Lord who removes and sets up kings.

Strathos · Aug 19, 2017

SeventyOne said:
Daniel 2:21 says it's the Lord who removes and sets up kings.

But does that apply to democratically elected leaders?

GoldenKingGaze · Aug 19, 2017

Strathos said:
But does that apply to democratically elected leaders?

Perhaps the candidates are meant to be there by God?

actionsub · Aug 19, 2017

Strathos said:
But does that apply to democratically elected leaders?

If Vladimir Putin is supposedly able to "fix" US elections, why not the Creator of the universe?

ubicaritas · Aug 19, 2017

Heads of state aren't "appointed by God", nor are they beyond criticism. However, they can be used by God as part of his order of preservation of the world.

GoldenKingGaze said:
Bonhoeffer demonstrated it was right to lie to the authorities.

I wouldn't say he viewed it as "right", but he viewed it as ethical in some circumstances to do so, as the lesser of two evils. He was an Augustinian theologically. Which means he viewed sin more as a pervasive inclination than a specific act. One could not escape sin through choice, merely minimize the evil of ones actions.

But was a bit too honest and did not take an opportunity to escape and was hung one month before Germany was liberated.

By the time he could have escaped it was too late and he was not able to leave the country. He did choose to go back to Germany however in the early part of the war, putting his life in danger, so that he could have more of a stake in rebuilding the country.

seeking.IAM · Aug 19, 2017

actionsub said:
If Vladimir Putin is supposedly able to "fix" US elections, why not the Creator of the universe?

If you think God chose Jimmy Carter, GWB, or Donald Trump, don't you also have to think he chose Putin, Hitler, Idi Amin, & Sadam Hussein?

actionsub · Aug 19, 2017

ubicaritas said:
Heads of state aren't "appointed by God", nor are they beyond criticism. However, they can be used by God as part of his order of preservation of the world.

You said it best. Rulers are chosen by God. However, some are chosen to bless a nation; others as God's agent to bring about God's judgment.

actionsub · Aug 19, 2017

seeking.IAM said:
If you think God chose Jimmy Carter, GWB, or Donald Trump, don't you also have to think he chose Putin, Hitler, Idi Amin, & Sadam Hussein?

See my response to Ubicaritas. In short, yes. Why would God choose such evil men? Don't know, those answers are above my pay grade. But if Jesus could look the guy with the power to execute him and say "you would not have this power if my Father didn't give it to you", that's enough for me to think, yeah, God put these villains in power.

seeking.IAM · Aug 19, 2017

I think God wept when some of those persons came into power.

sethrak · Aug 19, 2017

No!~I don't think he chose Donald Trump~I think we the people chose This President, But~I think The Lord heard us praying for him```

seeking.IAM · Aug 19, 2017

Hmm. Most voters voted against him. With that logic, you have to conclude that more voters were praying he did not get elected than were praying he would. So God didn't listen?

Head of state like Nero, Un, Mao, Stalin, Obama, God's choice?

Heads of state are God's choice.

Yes

Sometimes

Simply No, they are not God's choice.

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