Eating swine & other unclean animals is a work of the flesh

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 18, 2017

Lee Stuvmen said:
There is something you may wish to consider,
The TRUE GOSPEL(good news!)[condensed version]

ALL HUMANS, after Adam and Eve, ARE BORN AS TRANSGRESSORS
When the HEBREWS were walking in the desert 40 years, they were given ANOTHER LAW;
- the Law of Moses a.k.a.(Mosaic Law / Levitican Law)

Levitican Law was NOT GIVEN BECAUSE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, but BECAUSE OF SINFULNESS!
Galatians 3:19
Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

IF you OBSERVE ONE Levitican Law, then one has bound oneself TO DO ALL.

Break JUST ONE and you are guilty of breaking all!

NO HUMAN can live up to Levitican Law.
.

Yet another reason why this thread should be moved to the Sabbath and Law thread

The law is for dead people. lol...
The law is for dead people. lol...

cyberlizard said:
The Law is actually given to believers for didaskalia (teaching), elegchos (conviction), epanorthosis (straightening out the crooked), padeia (potty training).
Each of these can be found in 2 Timothy 3v16.

Steve

from scratch said:
You still need potty training? I agree you need straightening out and need some good teaching.

I don't need potty training or help in that department yet. I'm getting older by the second though and may again need help in that department.
I've been to school and learned fairly well.

I don't practice sin, so what do I need convicted of? And when I sin won't the Holy Spirit prick my heart?

LittleLambofJesus said:
The law is for dead people. lol...

I think we should change the title of this thread to

"The law is for potty training. lol..."

OrthodoxyUSA said:
I can relate to this. I hate Judaizing.
I have found that the ignore button is needed at some times. I've been adding to the list lately.

Forgive me...

Marvin Knox · Aug 18, 2017

Dkh587 said:
I can't speak on what any organized religion does in terms of my salvation - if an organized religion teaches that unclean animals are now clean, and that we can eat them, yet God, Messiah & the Apostles teach otherwise, I'm choosing them over the organized religion

Please explain what you mean when you say "in terms of my salvation". Are you saying that their teaching that it's OK to eat all meats now somehow distorts the gospel?

Perhaps we're getting to the crux of the matter finally.

Dkh587 said:
...- unclean animals are still unclean and and they make us unclean to eat them.

What do you mean by "makes us unclean"? Are you linking the eating or not eating of unclean animals to our salvation?

We need to get this very clear because if your issue with eating unclean animals is in any way linked to our salvation in your estimation - you are teaching a false gospel (which is really no gospel at all).

Of course, if you are merely talking about health issues here - that would amount to what is simply an intramural debate and your taking the side you do does not amount to your undermining the simplicity of the gospel message.

If that's simply where you are coming from - no problem. All is fine.

dougangel · Aug 18, 2017

Dkh587 said:
Shalom!

This thread is only about the subject of eating unclean animals, and how they make us unclean. Paul wrote to the Galatians that uncleanness is a work of the flesh. What is one of the things we can do to make ourselves unclean? Eat unclean animals.

Galatians 5:19-21

Keep in mind, this is in regards to what God says, and not man-made traditions.

Now, we know what animals are clean and unclean because the Scriptures record God telling Moses what animals are clean and unclean. HalleluYah!

The swine, or pig, is specifically mentioned:

Leviticus 11:7

Leviticus 11:43 shows us that eating unclean animals, birds, sea creatures, bugs etc defiles us and makes us unclean.

God specifically says that we should not defile ourselves and make ourselves unclean by eating unclean animals. Even touching their dead flesh makes us unclean.

No matter which unclean animal we eat, they all have the same effect: they make us abominable, they make us unclean, and they defile us(according to God)

There are other things that make us unclean, but considering that Paul wrote more than once about uncleanness, we should heed his words in light of what the Law of God says in regards to things that make us unclean, such as eating unclean animals(which is what this topic is about)

Ephesians 5:1-5

Again, there are many more things that make us unclean, but this thread is only about how eating unclean animals makes us unclean, per the word of God.

Shalom!

Jesus and Peter declared all animals clean under the laws of christ.
People after the cross are no longer under mosaic law

Purity Clarity Parkes · Aug 18, 2017

Dkh587 said:
Shalom!

This thread is only about the subject of eating unclean animals, and how they make us unclean. Paul wrote to the Galatians that uncleanness is a work of the flesh. What is one of the things we can do to make ourselves unclean? Eat unclean animals.

Galatians 5:19-21

Keep in mind, this is in regards to what God says, and not man-made traditions.

Now, we know what animals are clean and unclean because the Scriptures record God telling Moses what animals are clean and unclean. HalleluYah!

The swine, or pig, is specifically mentioned:

Leviticus 11:7

Leviticus 11:43 shows us that eating unclean animals, birds, sea creatures, bugs etc defiles us and makes us unclean.

God specifically says that we should not defile ourselves and make ourselves unclean by eating unclean animals. Even touching their dead flesh makes us unclean.

No matter which unclean animal we eat, they all have the same effect: they make us abominable, they make us unclean, and they defile us(according to God)

There are other things that make us unclean, but considering that Paul wrote more than once about uncleanness, we should heed his words in light of what the Law of God says in regards to things that make us unclean, such as eating unclean animals(which is what this topic is about)

Ephesians 5:1-5

Again, there are many more things that make us unclean, but this thread is only about how eating unclean animals makes us unclean, per the word of God.

Shalom!

What about ACTS - 10:9 - 16?

9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray.

10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance.

11 He saw heaven opened, and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners.

12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds.

13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”

14 “Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.

15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.

16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

-Ri

Dkh587 · Aug 18, 2017

Marvin Knox said:
Please explain what you mean when you say "in terms of my salvation". Are you saying that their teaching that it's OK to eat all meats now somehow distorts the gospel?

Perhaps we're getting to the crux of the matter finally.

What do you mean by "makes us unclean"? Are you linking the eating or not eating of unclean animals to our salvation?

We need to get this very clear because if your issue with eating unclean animals is in any way linked to our salvation in your estimation - you are teaching a false gospel (which is really no gospel at all).

Of course, if you are merely talking about health issues here - that would amount to what is simply an intramural debate and your taking the side you do does not amount to your undermining the simplicity of the gospel message.

If that's simply where you are coming from - no problem. All is fine.

All I'm doing is giving an example of what causes uncleanness.

Paul listed many works of the flesh, but uncleanness was one - so I thought it would be helpful to show at least one example that causes uncleanness: eating unclean animals. That is why I use God's own words - because God is above all.

I'm not talking about the gospel, nor salvation, but since you asked: are any of the works of the flesh linked to salvation? Meaning, are we putting our salvation on the line if we continue on in the works of the flesh once we have placed our faith in Christ?

Would I be in the wrong if I made another thread about how playing tarot cards is a work of the flesh? It's no different. All I did was isolate this one specific topic - there are many works of the flesh and many ways to make ourselves unclean.

Dkh587 · Aug 18, 2017

Purity Clarity Parkes said:
What about ACTS - 10:9 - 16?

9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray.

10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance.

11 He saw heaven opened, and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners.

12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds.

13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”

14 “Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.

15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.

16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

-Ri

Peace, and thanks for your post.

I have explained Peter's vision in a bit more detail in this post right here - the link takes you directly to it:

What foods does the Father want us to eat?

The vision is often taken out of context to teach that it's okay to eat unclean animals, but if you look at Acts of the Apostles 10:28, you will see that Peter explained the vision, and that it wasn't about food at all.

If you notice in Acts 10:28, Peter doesn't say "God showed me that we can now eat unclean animals", but rather, he said "God showed me that I should not call any man common or unclean".

Another thing to consider is Peter used the words "common" and "unclean". These are 2 different words. If you view my post in the thread I linked, I kinda touch on this for clarification.

Dkh587 · Aug 18, 2017

dougangel said:
Jesus and Peter declared all animals clean under the laws of christ.
People after the cross are no longer under mosaic law

No they didn't - this has been repeatedly debunked in this thread.

Unclean animals are still unclean. Christ didn't die & resurrect to make pigs and other unclean animals now clean

Dkh587 · Aug 18, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
Hi Ken, have you ever read Leviticus 20:25-26. It shows the real reason why God chose animals as an object lesson.

25 You shall therefore distinguish between clean animals and unclean, between unclean birds and clean, and you shall not make yourselves abominable by beast or by bird, or by any kind of living thing that creeps on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean. 26 And you shall be holy to Me, for I the Lord am holy, and have separated you from the peoples, that you should be Mine.

Jesus came to give the gospel to the House of Israel, but because they rejected Him, the gospel was then given to the Gentiles and they were no longer unclean. Therefore, the object lesson was no longer viable either because God made the people clean, and no longer needed an object lesson saying they were unclean.

Does that mean it is healthy to eat shrimp with all that cholesterol? No. But it no longer against the law. Paul tells us in Romans 6 that it is just food now, and no longer against the law. He said, "12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. 13 Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 And God both raised up the Lord and will also raise us up by His power."

Therefore, it is not any kind of food that can make your body unclean, but sexual immorality.

Verse 12 where Paul seems to be saying "All things are lawful for me", he is actually quoting the people he is writing to. If you look at other translations, like the NIV, you will see that he is quoting people and responding.

Besides: even if Paul was saying all things are lawful(which he wasn't, he was quoting and responding), do you really think adultery, murder, witchcraft, idolatry, lying, murdering, blaspheming God, inappropriate behavior with animals are lawful?

If all things are lawful, why would Paul then turn around and say that the body is not for fornication? All things are lawful, right? See, that's not what he's saying at all.

Context, context, context...

Hal A Peno · Aug 18, 2017

Dkh587 · Aug 18, 2017

GirdYourLoins said:
Read Acts 10:9-16 then Acts 11:1-18. You are clearly at fault in saying eating unclean animals is a work of the flesh. God made them unclean under the OT law for the Jews but showed Peter that He had made them clean. It clearly says "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean" and that is exactly what you are doing.

WRONG

Peter said in Acts of the Apostles 10:28 that "God showed me not to call any man common or unclean". The vision was NOT about food.

Notice that Peter didn't say, "God has showed me that unclean animals are now clean".

Nice try, but pigs are still unclean. and it's still a work of the flesh to eat them, because it makes us unclean.

Dkh587 · Aug 18, 2017

Hal A Peno said:
You are talking Mosiac law.

Which is God's law. And the word of God. So what's the problem?

Hal A Peno · Aug 18, 2017

Dkh587 · Aug 18, 2017

Lee Stuvmen said:
There is something you may wish to consider,
The TRUE GOSPEL(good news!)[condensed version]

Consider this; believe as you will.

ALL HUMANS, after Adam and Eve, ARE BORN AS TRANSGRESSORS.

Later, the FINGER OF GOD gave us TRANSGRESSORS the 10 Commandments which(according to Scripture) IS THE ETERNAL LAW IN HEAVEN.

When the HEBREWS were walking in the desert 40 years, they were given ANOTHER LAW;
- the Law of Moses a.k.a.(Mosaic Law / Levitican Law)

Levitican Law was NOT GIVEN BECAUSE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, but BECAUSE OF SINFULNESS!
Galatians 3:19
Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

IF you OBSERVE ONE Levitican Law, then one has bound oneself TO DO ALL.

Break JUST ONE and you are guilty of breaking all!

Galatians 3:10 (KJV)
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things(including sacrifices for sin) which are written in the book of the law to do them.

James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Have you ever TRIED TO LIVE by LEVITICAN LAW?

NO HUMAN can live up to Levitican Law.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident:

God DESIGNED Levitican Law AS Human's chance to demonstrate unto the universe
human being's INABILITY To ATTAIN SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS.

One must remember THIS WAS BEFORE CHRIST'S Sacrifice

HAD humans been able to live up to Levitican Law, there would have been no need for Jesus' Sacrifice.

God designed Levitican Law STRICTLY to count ALL AS GUILTY
Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

To exalt Christ's sacrifice TO THE FULLEST MEASURE
Romans 5:20
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

So now,

AFTER Christ's sacrifice,

establishing GRACE

which did what Levitican Law COULD NOT DO,

To RETURN BACKWARD to binding ones self to Levitican Law results in REJECTION OF GRACE and death.

Galatians 2:21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

LEVITICAN LAW was nailed to the cross, NOT THE 10 COMMANDMENTS!

HUMANS COULD NOT KEEP THE LETTER of THE LAW,

So what is the SPIRIT OF THE LAW?

IF you LOVE someone, would you;
Kill them?
Steal from them?
Take their wife?
Lie about them?

If God is love,

1 John 4:7-8 (KJV)
7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Would not love fulfill the SPIRIT OF THE LAW?
Romans 13:8
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Romans 13:10
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love. . . . . . .

But THROUGH LOVE,

WE KEEP THE SPIRIT of the law.

Romans 7:6
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

2 Corinthians 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Galatians 5 (KJV)
5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised(Levitican Law), Christ shall profit you nothing.

3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the (Levitican)law; ye are fallen from grace.

Only those that have TRIED to NOT BREAK ONE LEVITICAN LAW can appreciate the TRUE VALUE of Christ's Sacrifice.

Let me ask you this: now that you know that eating swine is a work of the flesh, how hard is it to STOP eating it? Will you die? Are you gonna starve? Is it a burden to obey God and stop eating abominations?

Dkh587 · Aug 18, 2017

Nato12 said:
Sorry man,
but I would have to take issues with two things you've said here.

1) Christ obeyed God's law . . but was He not caught doing work on the Sabbath? (Mark 2:23, Luke 6:1-11). And another time, he intentionally did not wash His hands before eating (mentioned somewhere earlier in this thread). So if He violated those laws, then so can we, right?

2) Are you sure that we have to do our best to imitate Christ? I know from my Bible that he was born without sin, but in sin my mother conceived me. No matter how hard I try, I'll never be perfect like Him. What am I trying for? It is like putting patches on the old wineskins; to put on the mind of Christ, I must first die

There's a difference between being hungry, and having no food available, and walking through the fields and plucking a grain, or fruit or 2, to get a bite to eat. Now, if they were out there with sickles, and were reaping and harvesting - that's another story. THey weren't out there harvesting. They were passing through and plucked a few heads of grain or whatever it was, and ate. Does God consider that work?

Check out Matthew 12:1-8. It brings much more clarity to Luke 6:1-11

Did you not read about David & the holy bread? David ate the shewbread in the temple when he was hungry, which was not for him, but the priests only. Christ referenced this in Luke 6.

Besides, do you really think Christ was going around breaking God's law? If he's sinless, how does it make sense that he's going around ignoring and breaking commands and teaching others to do so?

Another thing, washing your hands before you eat is not a commandment

It's a manmade tradition, which the Pharisees were teaching defiled you if you did not wash your hands before you eat. That's why Christ had to shut them down because it doesn't defile you to eat food with unwashed hands. This situation is often quoted out of context to teach that Christ made unclean animals clean, but in context, the event was not about food at all.

It's not in God's law, aka the law of Moses, that we should wash our hands before we eat. Should we? Yes, but it doesn't defile us.

And to answer your 2nd question, what I mean by imitate Christ, is to live as he lived. He lived a life in obedience to God, and serving others.

1 John 2:6
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked

^^^We should walk as he walked. How did Christ walk? In obedience to God's commands.

Dkh587 · Aug 18, 2017

Hal A Peno said:
What a stupid answer. Maybe you're in the wrong religion.

It may be stupid to you, but I have shown that it's the truth using scripture.

Dkh587 · Aug 18, 2017

chilehed said:
I understand what you're saying. But you have no authority to teach in opposition to Christ's Bride, the Church, and it's absurd to do so and yet think that you're obeying Christ who told you to submit to the teaching of those he put in authority over you. There's not a scrap of evidence since the earliest days of Christianity that the Church has ever believed as you do, and there's mountains of positive evidence that it believed the opposite of what you do; you might as well stand up in a room full of the people who learned the faith directly from the Apostles and tell them that you know better than they what was originally taught. In fact, thats exactly what you're doing.

I'm done here.

There's plenty of evidence backing up what I say - why do you reject the scriptures? I've referenced God's words, the Messiah's words, Paul's words and Peters words. Who else do we need to hear from to know that it's not okay to eat unclean animals? That's enough for me...

The people who learned directly from the Apostles would not disagree with me. If someone claims to have learned directly from the Apostles, and teaches otherwise, then they didn't learn directly from the Apostles, because the Apostles didn't teach that.

We should obey Christ first. If Christ never said he made unclean animals clean, why would I listen to someone that claims to be in authority over me, who teaches otherwise? No bueno.

God bless

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 18, 2017

Dkh587 said:
........................
If you notice in Acts 10:28, Peter doesn't say "God showed me that we can now eat unclean animals", but rather, he said "God showed me that I should not call any man common or unclean"..............

That word is interesting and is used most times in the NT in conjunction with spirits, devils and birds.....

I would say Acts 5:16 ties in quite well to Revelation 18:2.
OC Jerusalem had essentially become a "Babylon" it would seem? Will have to study more on it.....

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)
Strong's Number G169 matches the Greek ἀκάθαρτος (akathartos), which occurs 30 times in 29 verses in the Greek concordance

Luk 4:33
And in the synagogue there was a man, which had a spirit of an unclean G169 devil, and cried out with a loud voice,

Act 5:16
There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean G169 spirits: and they were healed every one.

Rev 16:13
And I saw three unclean G169 spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

Rev 18:2
And he cried mightily with a strong voice saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen,
and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every unclean G169 spirit, and a cage of every unclean G169 and hateful bird.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. --
Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived ;

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ........
At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival. How suitable and how kind, then, was the prophetic admonition of our LORD, and how clearly he into futurity when he said "Let not them that are in the countries enter into Jerusalem." Luke xxi. 21.

Before their final demolition, however, Titus took, a. survey of the city and its fortifications ; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?" After this he commanded that the city should be commanded razed to its foundations

Concordancia Griego de Strong: 169. ἀκάθαρτος (akathartos) -- inmundo, inmundos, inmunda, impuro.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 169: ἀκάθαρτος

ἀκάθαρτος, (καθαίρω) (from Sophocles down), in the Sept. equivalent to טָמֶא, not cleansed, unclean;

a. in a ceremonial sense, that which must be abstained from according to the levitical law, lest impurity be contracted: Acts 10:14; Acts 11:8 (of food); Acts 10:28; 1 Corinthians 7:14 (of men); 2 Corinthians 6:17 (from Isaiah 52:11, of things pertaining to idolatry); Revelation 18:2 (of birds),

b. in a moral sense, unclean in thought and life (frequent in Plato): Ephesians 5:5; τά ἀκάθαρτα τῆς πορνείας, Revelation 17:4 (according to the true reading); πνεύματα, demons, bad angels (in twenty-three passages of the Gospels, Acts, and Revelation): Matthew 10:1; Matthew 12:43; Mark 1:23, 26; Mark 3:11, etc.; Luke 4:33, 36; Luke 6:18, etc.; Acts 5:16; Acts 8:7; Revelation 16:13; Revelation 18:2 (πνεύματα πονηρά in Matthew 12:45; Luke 7:21; Luke 8:2; Luke 11:26; Acts 19:12f, 15f).

Strong's Concordance
akathartos: unclean, impure
Original Word: ἀκάθαρτος, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: akathartos
Phonetic Spelling: (ak-ath'-ar-tos)
Short Definition: unclean, impure
Definition: unclean, impure.
HELPS Word-studies
169 akáthartos (an adjective, derived from 1 /A "not" and 2513 /katharós, "clean, purged") – properly, not pure (because mixed), i.e. adulterated with "a wrong mix" and hence "unclean" (because tainted by sin).

[The antonym, 2508 /kathaírō ("clean"), means "free from wrong mixture" (unadulterated, unmixed).]

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
foul, unclean.
From a (as a negative particle) and a presumed derivative of kathairo (meaning cleansed); impure (ceremonially, morally (lewd) or specially, (demonic)) -- foul, unclean.

Dkh587 · Aug 18, 2017

Hank77 said:
Are you saying that Abraham was living in sin with Sarah?

It was against God's law for the Israelites to eat certain foods.

So you are admitting the God changes the laws that He gave to men depending on the time, circumstances, and what His intentions were in that part of His plan for mankind? Would you agree that the New Testament is the final word that we have from God?

I didn't say Abraham was living in sin. Certain things that people used to do are now considered sin, such as incest.

the New Testament is the final word, but we have to understand it through the Law of God, the Prophets and the Writings. We can't just ignore thousands of years of scripture. That's how you get in trouble and start teaching false doctrine such as unclean animals now being clean.

And yes, God amends his law: for example, Adam and Eve's children procreated with each other. That is what we now know to be incest. However, for them it was not sin. As time progressed, incest became a sin. Surely you don't advocate incest, since that was before God revealed his law?

I don't think certain things, things that God considers abominable, such as eating swine and homosexuality, to be things that God will retract his word on, and now make them not abominable. That to me is what I consider going backwards.

Let me paraphrase, because this is how most Christians perceive God and how he treats his commandments:

"Hey, Israelites! I told you that it was abominable and defiling and unclean to eat unclean animals, but I sent my son to die for you so now you can eat abominable unclean animals. All those old commandments, don't worry about them! Live how you want. You're under grace. Grace grace grace. My old commands were a burden, even though I told you that they weren't too hard for you to do!"

Do you see the problem?

1stcenturylady · Aug 18, 2017

Dkh587 said:
Verse 12 where Paul seems to be saying "All things are lawful for me", he is actually quoting the people he is writing to. If you look at other translations, like the NIV, you will see that he is quoting people and responding.

Besides: even if Paul was saying all things are lawful(which he wasn't, he was quoting and responding), do you really think adultery, murder, witchcraft, idolatry, lying, murdering, blaspheming God, inappropriate behavior with animals are lawful?

If all things are lawful, why would Paul then turn around and say that the body is not for fornication? All things are lawful, right? See, that's not what he's saying at all.

Context, context, context...

If we are dead to sin then we are not under the law which reveals sin.

Dkh587 · Aug 18, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
If we are dead to sin then we are not under the law which reveals sin.

True - and one of those sins the law reveals is eating pork and unclean animals. :amen:

Eating swine & other unclean animals is a work of the flesh

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Spirit-filled follower of Christ

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