Are we morally obligated to pay the debts of the deceased?

Anguspure

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No. It's not your debt. No obligation.
I think what he is concerned about here and correct me if I am wrong @Jim Langston, is whether it is moral for him to benefit financially from what might be the immoral (be it legal) conduct of the executors of his sisters estate.
 
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Philip_B

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The sum of the estate is surely A - L = E , which is Assets minus liabilities equals equity.

If someone dies with $1000 in the bank and a debt of $999 then the estate is worth $1. That is the arithmetic. That is how it works. That is the moral course of action. That is the just course of action.

The beneficiaries of the estate are entitled to the distribution of the net value of the estate, not the gross value.

This does become more complex if the debt had been contested by the deceased. It also becomes more complex if the lebt is not legally enforceable (perhaps relating to less that legal transactions). However the general rule hold good.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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I think what he is concerned about here and correct me if I am wrong @Jim Langston, is whether it is moral for him to benefit financially from what might be the immoral (be it legal) conduct of the executors of his sisters estate.

Thanks. I see. I was hasty in my reply.

The money is to go to pay the debts. Only if any is leftover should it got to heirs. This is an easy answer, and the attempt at justification is invalid.

Pay the debts.
 
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pshun2404

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Romans 13 speaks of how you should view your obligations not your parent's or your sister's. You are not responsible for their sin nor are you guilty of it. when it here speaks of the powers that be it is referring to the government and how it YOUR responsibility to pay YOUR due.

Your mom, dad, or sister were also under this law, but only as long as they lived. Death is freedom from the law for the one who has died (Romans 7:1-6). That goes for all law that SHE was subject to. After death she owes nothing and no one but the LORD. If they were IN CHRIST they were even freed from the penalties of the Lord's law.

Pay them nothing. She no longer owes them a thing. If they think so, let them go to her and collect.
 
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Anguspure

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This is why all my loans are insured. If I died my wife does not have to about a thing.
Is insurance of this type even moral?
The risk that you are covering when you take out this sort of insurance is this risk that you can't keep your word, that is your promise to pay.
 
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Philip_B

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Romans 13 speaks of how you should view your obligations not your parent's or your sister's. You are not responsible for their sin nor are you guilty of it. when it here speaks of the powers that be it is referring to the government and how it YOUR responsibility to pay YOUR due.

Your mom, dad, or sister were also under this law, but only as long as they lived. Death is freedom from the law for the one who has died (Romans 7:1-6). That goes for all law that SHE was subject to. After death she owes nothing and no one but the LORD. If they were IN CHRIST they were even freed from the penalties of the Lord's law.

Pay them nothing. She no longer owes them a thing. If they think so, let them go to her and collect.
I fail to concur with your argument. If the deceased had a housekeeper whom they owed three days pay to, then that should be paid out of the estate before the distribution of the capital. It is not about the beneficiary paying the debt, it is about the beneficiary not taking their share of the estate until those things which ought to be paid have been paid. I don't believe that Christians should have a problem with this.
 
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Jim Langston

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Why do you need to check with others to "see if you are right"?
It's between you and God - and possibly the law of the land.

A number of people have said, "pay the debt first, then accept money"; you don't seem to like, or agree with, that, so you have argued.
Someone said that if you didn't agree with your sister's lifestyle, you shouldn't accept any of her money, and you argued with that as well.

It's between you, any other siblings, the law, your conscience and God. What is God asking you to do?

God demanded that I not pay them.

I not only ask the question so I will learn, but others as well. I also need to explain to my sister who does not get it and perhaps I could find some arguments I hadn't used before.

Not only is it my job to learn for myself, but I have to be able to explain to others.
 
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CitizenD

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God demanded that I not pay them.

Well. That's correct, God's not going to put a lien on your property after you possibly illegally dispose of the estate's assets. But just in case someone else would be tempted to, maybe you should ask advice from a lawyer instead of strangers on the internet.

NOLO Press said:
Creditors' Rights
Avoiding probate doesn't let you off the hook from legal obligations to your creditors. If you don't leave enough other assets to pay your debts and taxes, any assets that passed outside of probate may be subject to the claims of creditors after your death.
From here.
 
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Jim Langston

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Jesus said to give to anyone who asks, but if your sister has money left, I think that goes to all her debts, but your asking in the wrong place, if someone's after money ask a lawyer, in the bible it's also there to lend money when asked.
SO NEITHER A BORROWER OR LENDER BE IS A HUMAN SAYING, it doesn't come from the bible.

In light of the fact that neither a borrower not a lender be comes from Shakespeare and not God, I agree, the credit card debts should be paid.

Thank you for finding my error.

So the reason God told me not to pay is because my younger sister made off with the majority of the money, so would pay.
 
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pshun2404

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Is insurance of this type even moral?
The risk that you are covering when you take out this sort of insurance is this risk that you can't keep your word, that is your promise to pay.

Your promise (an act of the will) is that YOU will pay and that only extends as long as you live.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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God demanded that I not pay them.

Very convenient but false.

Your sister's estate must first pat it debtors, and take what remains, if any. That's your moral obligation.
However, it is NOT your moral obligation to pay anything out of your pocket.

If the estate has $50,000 in cash and other assets, and $20,000 in debt, you take $10,000 to burry her, and pay the $20k of debt, leaving you $20k to divide among yourselves.

If the estate had $20,000 in assets, and $50,000 in debt, then you take $10,000 to burry her, and divide $40,000 among the debtors, leave you with nothing either out of pocket or in-pocket.

As others have said, this is how it works. Your sister made a promise to pay. It must be paid.
 
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pshun2404

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I fail to concur with your argument. If the deceased had a housekeeper whom they owed three days pay to, then that should be paid out of the estate before the distribution of the capital. It is not about the beneficiary paying the debt, it is about the beneficiary not taking their share of the estate until those things which ought to be paid have been paid. I don't believe that Christians should have a problem with this.

Since in about 80% of the cases world wide the living relatives have no "estate" to be dealt with, they should not be held liable for those debts that individual created or obtained. If they were a criminal and owed a debt to society should they also pay that? Where is the line? The debtor is DEAD.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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it is about the beneficiary not taking their share of the estate until those things which ought to be paid have been paid. I don't believe that Christians should have a problem with this.

This is plain a day, but when people wish to justify an unjust act, they will ignore plain, black and white truth in favor of shades of gray.
 
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Halbhh

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Simply do as the law says. Debts are to be paid, but if the estate cannot, the law says what happens.

Banks issuing credit cards rely on the law, and have a plan similar in effect to built in insurance of a kind. By design.

We read you plan that other debts will be paid, all the non credit card debts.

The law is how the credit card companies already plan their business model, and already make their profits, charging all their fees already.

That users and businesses already have paid.

It's like insurance actually. They calculate a rate of nonpayment and plan on that.

Completely unlike a simple debt to another person or non financial businesses.

The law itself was largely designed by the banks that offer the credit cards. It's simply their system they have set up.

We can understand the fairness of how a simple debt like to a dentist or funeral home, an estate should ideally pay fully as it can, as fairness to individual businesses without a planned built in insuring calculation. Of course you can learn more about probate even if you aren't in it and should, in just a few minutes. The law is about fairness.
 
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TravelerFarAwayFromHome

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Before my mother passed away it was her intent that her debts pass away with her. After my mother died I helped my father resolve my mother's debt and he paid it off, as he felt it was his moral responsibility to do.

My older sister just passed a way recently and, like money always does, problems arise. Now a question came up. My sister's estate was under the amount required by law for probate, therefore her funds were evenly disbursed between us three surviving siblings. My youngest sister asked about splitting up her debt and paying it.

I would agree to split any expenses after her death, funeral, etc... and pay off rent, hospital, gas etc...closing accounts, but I would not pay a dime to any credit cards or banks.

My explanation: Not a borrower nor a lender be. I do not borrow money, in fact I try to remain debt free as ordered by not a borrower nor a lender be. For me to pay a lender when I don't legally have to (she had under minimum required) I almost consider a sin. I will have no part in other's borrowing and lending.

It is my understanding that if someone has little money left, under 150k, they would just let the survivors have it and not pass on the debt, and I agree with that legally and moralistically.

I told my sister that for someone who ignored the order not to borrow or lend, good luck with that.

Opinions?

it is such a tough question

i don't know, for me, i would feel if i have taken on her estate as i inherited the money from her (as in benefiting from the estate) then it would also be morally right for me to take on the responsibility of her debt, or alternatively i would turn down the money from her estate all together and wash mine hands clean of it.

but i would feel it is wrong for me to benefit from her estate without taken on the responsibility associated with it.

does the money she left you is more than the debt she left she left behind.

if so, why not just use the money you got from her to pay off the debt?

anyway, it is just mine opinion, i don't know what is your financial situation is like right now, maybe you need her estate for your retirement or something, or to save for a rainy day

i would pray about it and see what God has to say

God bless.
 
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TravelerFarAwayFromHome

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Consider, if a their lived by stealing from my sister every week and she dies so he didn't get to steal the money that week should he be paid for that week?

Now, how is making money in a way God said not to any different than theft, and is fact, isn't that why God said don't do it? Usuary is wrong.

what is a usuary, was your sister aware of it, if so, then she agreed to it by borrowing money from them anyway.

regardless of whether it is fair or not, if your sister voluntarily agreed to it, then she gave them her word.

as the heir of the estate, you are responsible for her promise now, just look at KitSigmon response, as a Christian, you live by the word of God, and you know what God bless those who walk in His ways!
 
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TravelerFarAwayFromHome

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Proverbs 13:22 A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children: and the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just.

Ecclesiastes 2:26 For to the one who pleases him God has given wisdom and knowledge and joy, but to the sinner he has given the business of gathering and collecting, only to give to one who pleases God. This also is vanity and a striving after wind.

Proverbs 28:8 Whoever multiplies his wealth by interest and profit gathers it for him who is generous to the poor.

It would be disrespectful to God to refuse the money He has worked to give me. When I get the money 10% goes to God, 10% goes to the poor. If I do not take the money it remains in the hands of the unrightous.

That being said, I was originally going to refuse the money because of another siblings greed. But then I was going to share it with my two sons, so that portion is theirs, I can not give away someone else's money. I am paying 20% to God and the poor, that is money that is not mine, it is God's and the poor's. Mine is only 33% of 80%.

Now, given that some of this money s God's me me rephrase the question: Is it proper to take money that should go to the poor and God and use some to pay money lenders?

what kind of inheritance would this be for your boys if you disobey God's words, would it not be blood money, do you really think they are going to be benefit from it?

also think what example you are setting your boys, i personally think the most important inheritance you can give to your boys is to teach them the way of the Lord, by setting an example.....

God bless.
 
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Dave-W

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In Genesis 4 Cain asked this question of God when queried as to his brother Abel. "Am I my brother's keeper?" It was meant as rhetorical with the assumed answer "no." But God called him on the carpet for his brother's blood crying from the ground. That means the answer was actually "Yes." We are our brothers' (and sisters') keepers.

Paul tells us this:

Philippians 2:4
do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others.​

There is no qualifier on that to determine if the "other" is still alive or not.

Pay the debt.
 
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Idromos247

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Is insurance of this type even moral?
The risk that you are covering when you take out this sort of insurance is this risk that you can't keep your word, that is your promise to pay.

I would say it is.... My loans are insured by the bank, who as the lender suggested and offered the deal. If I die at work I know my wife is safe. And this bank does it all the time.
 
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