The 144,000

Devin P said:

So, it says that they are virgins... But, does it really mean virgins? Is it referring to sexual virgins, or spiritual virgins?

I have a feeling it means literal virgins, because it says that they follow him wherever he goes (the Savior) and if they gave up their procreation, they gave up their line for the Savior. Meaning, when it's time to reign in New Jerusalem, they will most likely be the most dedicated to the lamb. What're your thoughts?

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Devin P said:

Like, never? Not once? Or they just have such faith in the Savior that they are justified and are truly men after the Father's own heart?

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Oscarr said:

So do you think that Hal Lindsey's interpretation in the 1970s is still relevant today? And has he changed his views since? And, how would you accurately interpret the Book of Revelation to bring out its true meaning?

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toLiJC said:

they are virginal as regards sinning - sex is not a primary criterion in this respect, because there could be both sexual people that are not evil because of sex and sexual people that are evil, which indicates the root of evil is not sex

they are "virgins", first of all, because they don't commit spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness at all - all evil things come from the system of spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness

Blessings

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SeventyOne said:

It clearly says, 'It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins.' The property of 'virgin' is directly associated with defilement with women.

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toLiJC said:

as far as i can remember, God created both the man and the woman (Genesis 1:26-27, Genesis 2:7-22), and it is written everything He created/made was entirely good (Genesis 1:31), and He was the one that made the man and the woman love each other, make love, have sex, etc. (Genesis 1:28, Genesis 2:23-24), and it is written they were naked and two bodies in one and there was nothing shameful in that (Genesis 2:24-25), so how is it possible that sex were the original/primary sin?! - who was sinful/the sinner, God or man?!, i ask you this question because, after all, God was the one that created sex...

and as far as i can remember, the original sin consisted in some kind of manifestation of great spirituality/religiosity that could make humans very wise, sublime, powerful, mighty, etc. like God - in Scripture there is no mention of sex being the original sin, otherwise it would be written in Genesis 3:6 that the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" was good as a source of enjoyment and desirable to make humans feel great pleasure instead of "delight to the eyes" and "desirable to make one wise" (moreover, it would rather be called e.g. "tree of the knowledge/experience of sexual pleasure")

Romans 2:14-20 "I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing(i.e. nothing created by the true God) is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean (note: remember that adam and eve began to perceive sex as something unclean after they sinned - Genesis 3:7)... All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense.",

1 Timothy 4:1-5 "But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith(i.e. from the true faith), paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons(i.e. and devilish spiritual/religious doctrines/teachings), by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron(i.e. with strong spiritual/religious delusion), men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods(i.e. from consumptions) which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe(i.e. who are righteous believers/religious worshipers) and know the truth(i.e. and also by those who accept/acknowledge the truth). For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude(i.e. if it is used for good purpose); for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer(i.e. because it is sanctified by the Holy Spirit and through the prayers of the true Saints)."

so, what is sin?!

Blessings

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SeventyOne said:

The defiling comes through sin, in this case, fornication. (Paul wasn't talking about 'clean' sin.) The source of the potential defiling are themselves, it says, 'they did not defile themselves'.

In other words, the 144,000 aren't married and they haven't been sleeping around. We know they aren't married, because sex with a spouse isn't defiling and also negates the whole virgin thing, and we know they aren't sleeping around, because that is sin that defiles and because they are still virgins.

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toLiJC said:

are you realizing the fact that what the true God created was not defiled by itself, and there can be no defilement if there is no sin, so God created the man and the woman not just with reproductive but with sexual systems so that they could have sexual life together, and there was nothing unclean in that (Genesis 2:24-25), so, what fornication are you talking about?!, how is it possible that the program of a robot be changed without someone hacking/cracking it on a system level?!, i ask this question because what God put in humans initially was perfect righteousness, then they began to perceive things and think differently after they were seduced into sinning, so how is it possible that sex itself were the original sin especially when God created humans with sexual systems so that they could have sexual life together(a man with a woman)?! - sin is inherently causation/infliction of evil to/on humans and other (be)souled beings, or why would sin be bad for people if it wasn't detrimental/harmful to them?!

sex as a creation of God is not presented as fornication anywhere in Scripture(the Bible) - such a persuasion that sex is sinful by itself is definitely not biblical, and i know some sources that profess such beliefs, especially indic ones such as kriya yoga, iskcon, and other suchlike creeds, but they change the meanings of the biblical words too much and there are many contradictions in their teachings - Genesis 3:1-7 definitely speaks of spiritual sin that defiles creature, sex and other creations of God, because there is mention of some "eyes" that appear in humans when they began to "eat" from the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil", and satan promised them that if they "eat" from it they will become and be wise, sublime, powerful, mighty, etc. like God Himself (Genesis 3:5-7), so the matter at hand in this case is not sex...

1 Timothy 3:1-4 (GWT) "This is a statement that can be trusted: If anyone sets his heart on being a bishop, he desires something excellent. A bishop must have a good reputation. He must have only one wife, be sober, use good judgment, be respectable, be hospitable, and be able to teach. He must not drink excessively or be a violent person, but he must be gentle. He must not be quarrelsome or love money. He must manage his own family well. His children should respectfully obey him.",

1 Timothy 3:8-12 (GWT) "Deacons must also be of good character. They must not be two-faced or addicted to alcohol. They must not use shameful ways to make money. They must have clear consciences about possessing the mystery of the Christian faith. First, a person must be evaluated. Then, if he has a good reputation, he may become a deacon. Their wives must also be of good character. They must not be gossips, but they must control their tempers and be trustworthy in every way. A deacon must have only one wife. Deacons must manage their children and their families well."

so how aren't there married with children among the "144,000"?!

Blessings

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SeventyOne said:

I've already answered your question.

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toLiJC said:

your answer didn't fit the perfect truth - personally i wouldn't dare to tell the true God that His creation called "sex" is defiling by itself

Blessings

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SeventyOne said:

Me either. That's not even remotely like what I said.

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