Status
Not open for further replies.

Dkh587

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 6, 2014
3,049
1,770
Southeast
✟552,407.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
If you want to follow the law that is rejecting Christ. You say you are a believer than I have to accept that but you also appear to want to be a judaizer when as gentiles we are not required to follow Jewish law. Whoever told you to follow Jewish law as a Christian lied to you
Christ upheld the law, and fully taught it & preached it. He didn't abolish it. The Christ i believe in did not teach his followers to disobey God's law, what you are erroneously are calling "Jewish law"

Christ obeyed God's law, and lived the life that the law teaches us to live. And we all know we are supposed to imitate Christ.

Was Christ walking around teaching folks to eat unclean animals? Did Christ eat unclean animals? Did Christ teach disobedience to God's commandments?

If Christ didn't eat unclean animals, didn't teach his followers to eat unclean animals, and didn't teach disobedience to God's law, are we really imitating him if he didn't do these things, & teach his followers to do the same, yet we are doing and teaching them?

I would have to say NO.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

nonaeroterraqueous

Nonexistent Member
Aug 16, 2014
2,915
2,724
✟188,987.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
The bible didn't become flesh, the memra (Aramaic) or davar (Hebrew) was made flesh...

Both of those passages that I mentioned came from the New Testament. What language was used to write the New Testament? Why even bother mentioning Aramaic or Hebrew, when you know it was written in Greek. Your argument is deliberately misleading, and you're attempting to use esoteric terms to construct a fallacious argument.
 
Upvote 0

Ken Rank

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 12, 2014
7,218
5,560
Winchester, KENtucky
✟286,395.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Both of those passages that I mentioned came from the New Testament. What language was used to write the New Testament? Why even bother mentioning Aramaic or Hebrew, when you know it was written in Greek. Your argument is deliberately misleading, and you're attempting to use esoteric terms to construct a fallacious argument.

Don't say I am deliberately misleading, that is calling me a liar. We don't agree so automatically I am a liar? That's why we have over 20,000 divisions in the ONE body of Messiah. As for what language the NT was written in? The answer is, mostly Aramaic, some Hebrew... a little Greek. If you want to get together and go over the Hebraic syntax we can. The idea that the NT was written in Greek is a fallacy. The language of the day in Judea was Aramaic... the Temple language was Hebrew... and the Jews who had to interact knew enough Greek to get by save for the Hellenists of course, who were already Greek raised. All of the Jewish writings from that time period (see Dead Sea scrolls for a few thousand examples) are in Aramaic and Hebrew... and the NT is a Jewish writing.

Be blessed. :)
Ken
 
Upvote 0

Dkh587

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 6, 2014
3,049
1,770
Southeast
✟552,407.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Than our interactions are at an end, I wish you well following Jewish law and reject the law of Grace
I'm a little disappointed that you were not willing to answer my questions, but no hard feelings. Peace & blessings to you
 
Upvote 0

Ken Rank

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 12, 2014
7,218
5,560
Winchester, KENtucky
✟286,395.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Than our interactions are at an end, I wish you well following Jewish law and reject the law of Grace
That is a ridiculous statement. First of all, he is talking about "God's law," it is only known as "Jewish law" culturally. It is like saying, "Feasts of the Jews" and ignoring God calling them "My Feasts" or the two verses that plainly state, "these are the Feasts of the LORD."
 
Upvote 0

SteveCaruso

Translator
May 17, 2010
812
555
✟54,511.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
The idea that the NT was written in Greek is a fallacy.

When you are intimately familiar with the requisite languages (and I'm speaking from experience here :) ) Greek is the best explanation. The NT as we have it was compiled in Greek – despite there being some Aramaic source material, predominantly in the Gospels. Aramaic Primacy for the entire NT is an untenable fringe hypothesis.
 
Upvote 0

Tutorman

Charismatic Episcopalian
Jun 20, 2017
1,637
1,349
52
california
✟103,246.00
Country
United States
Faith
Episcopalian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I'm a little disappointed that you were not willing to answer my questions, but no hard feelings. Peace & blessings to you

I am sorry if I was bad to you a fellow brother in Christ. Blessings to you
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Nato12

New Member
May 22, 2015
3
6
✟7,862.00
Country
Russian Federation
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Christ upheld the law, and fully taught it & preached it. He didn't abolish it. The Christ i believe in did not teach his followers to disobey God's law, what you are erroneously are calling "Jewish law"

Christ obeyed God's law, and lived the life that the law teaches us to live. And we all know we are supposed to imitate Christ.

Was Christ walking around teaching folks to eat unclean animals? Did Christ eat unclean animals? Did Christ teach disobedience to God's commandments?

If Christ didn't eat unclean animals, didn't teach his followers to eat unclean animals, and didn't teach disobedience to God's law, are we really imitating him if he didn't do these things, & teach his followers to do the same, yet we are doing and teaching them?

I would have to say NO.

Sorry man,
but I would have to take issues with two things you've said here.

1) Christ obeyed God's law . . but was He not caught doing work on the Sabbath? (Mark 2:23, Luke 6:1-11). And another time, he intentionally did not wash His hands before eating (mentioned somewhere earlier in this thread). So if He violated those laws, then so can we, right?

2) Are you sure that we have to do our best to imitate Christ? I know from my Bible that he was born without sin, but in sin my mother conceived me. No matter how hard I try, I'll never be perfect like Him. What am I trying for? It is like putting patches on the old wineskins; to put on the mind of Christ, I must first die
 
Upvote 0

Anand Prabhu Antony

Active Member
Jan 8, 2016
171
23
Chennai, India
✟20,316.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Perhaps a different verse would be more relevant: "The voice spoke from heaven a second time, 'Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.' (Acts 11:9)
That was regarding gentiles, but not swine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dkh587
Upvote 0

RGW00

Active Member
Jul 29, 2017
180
78
25
Kentucky
✟15,682.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Shalom!

This thread is only about the subject of eating unclean animals, and how they make us unclean. Paul wrote to the Galatians that uncleanness is a work of the flesh. What is one of the things we can do to make ourselves unclean? Eat unclean animals.

Galatians 5:19-21


Keep in mind, this is in regards to what God says, and not man-made traditions.

Now, we know what animals are clean and unclean because the Scriptures record God telling Moses what animals are clean and unclean. HalleluYah!

The swine, or pig, is specifically mentioned:

Leviticus 11:7



Leviticus 11:43 shows us that eating unclean animals, birds, sea creatures, bugs etc defiles us and makes us unclean.


God specifically says that we should not defile ourselves and make ourselves unclean by eating unclean animals. Even touching their dead flesh makes us unclean.

No matter which unclean animal we eat, they all have the same effect: they make us abominable, they make us unclean, and they defile us(according to God)

There are other things that make us unclean, but considering that Paul wrote more than once about uncleanness, we should heed his words in light of what the Law of God says in regards to things that make us unclean, such as eating unclean animals(which is what this topic is about)

Ephesians 5:1-5


Again, there are many more things that make us unclean, but this thread is only about how eating unclean animals makes us unclean, per the word of God.

Shalom!
Jesus died for our sins and cleared this right of us. Of course, there are people on this forum that believe otherwise but God wouldn't forbid people of this today. If God forbid these things then I guess 99.9999% of the world is going to Hell. Because it is almost impossible to say that you have never eaten unclean meat unless it's a family value you have kept all of your life. But there are lots of health benefits that come from those that make us stronger, and God means for us to take care of those animals the way we see fit, as God gave Adam the permission to do this in the beginning of time.
 
Upvote 0

Anand Prabhu Antony

Active Member
Jan 8, 2016
171
23
Chennai, India
✟20,316.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Shalom!

This thread is only about the subject of eating unclean animals, and how they make us unclean. Paul wrote to the Galatians that uncleanness is a work of the flesh. What is one of the things we can do to make ourselves unclean? Eat unclean animals.

Galatians 5:19-21


Keep in mind, this is in regards to what God says, and not man-made traditions.

Now, we know what animals are clean and unclean because the Scriptures record God telling Moses what animals are clean and unclean. HalleluYah!

The swine, or pig, is specifically mentioned:

Leviticus 11:7



Leviticus 11:43 shows us that eating unclean animals, birds, sea creatures, bugs etc defiles us and makes us unclean.


God specifically says that we should not defile ourselves and make ourselves unclean by eating unclean animals. Even touching their dead flesh makes us unclean.

No matter which unclean animal we eat, they all have the same effect: they make us abominable, they make us unclean, and they defile us(according to God)

There are other things that make us unclean, but considering that Paul wrote more than once about uncleanness, we should heed his words in light of what the Law of God says in regards to things that make us unclean, such as eating unclean animals(which is what this topic is about)

Ephesians 5:1-5


Again, there are many more things that make us unclean, but this thread is only about how eating unclean animals makes us unclean, per the word of God.

Shalom!
Romans 14: 14-17, 20-23
Paul said: "I know, and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean of itself; except that to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Yet if because of food your brother is grieved, you walk no longer in love. Don’t destroy with your food him for whom Christ died.
Then don’t let your good be slandered,
for God’s Kingdom is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit".
Don’t overthrow God’s work for food’s sake. All things indeed are clean, however it is evil for that man who creates a stumbling block by eating.
It is good to not eat meat, drink wine, nor do anything by which your brother stumbles, is offended, or is made weak.
Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who doesn’t judge himself in that which he approves.
But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because it isn’t of faith; and whatever is not of faith is sin".
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

chilehed

Veteran
Jul 31, 2003
4,710
1,384
62
Michigan
✟229,215.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
This thread is only about the subject of eating unclean animals, and how they make us unclean. Paul wrote to the Galatians that uncleanness is a work of the flesh. What is one of the things we can do to make ourselves unclean? Eat unclean animals.
This is a theological novelty that you've arrived at through your own reasoning. What makes you think that you know better than the entire church, which for two thousand years has said that you're wrong? How do you know that you're not one of those spoken of in 2 Peter 3:16?
 
Upvote 0

Ken Rank

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 12, 2014
7,218
5,560
Winchester, KENtucky
✟286,395.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
When you are intimately familiar with the requisite languages (and I'm speaking from experience here :) ) Greek is the best explanation. The NT as we have it was compiled in Greek – despite there being some Aramaic source material, predominantly in the Gospels. Aramaic Primacy for the entire NT is an untenable fringe hypothesis.
I am surrounded with some of the world's finest Koine Greek scholars. The interesting thing about this form of Greek is the Semitic undertones... it is almost Yiddish to German in the sense that the Hellenists made it their own. That said, there are many reasons why I said what I did and stand by it. This is also not the thread for a debate on languages... you are welcome to start one and tag me or send me a PM.

Shalom and brakhot.
Ken

Edit - by the way, no means did I say nor think (are you trying to read my mind? :) ) that the entire NT was written in Aramaic. I don't have a primacy at all.... I said I think much of it was written in Aramaic, but I teeter between that and saying much was written in Hebrew. There were Hellenists in Judea but the disciples and Paul were not Hellenists and their views of Greek people (see the Peter and Paul dispute, also the vision God gave Peter wasn't about food it was about people... and in the immediate sense, Greek speaking Romans) were not high, in fact, at first, they were viewed as loathsome. Document after document from that time period written by a Jew is done in Hebrew or Aramaic... the problem is, we don't have a 1st century NT book. So we really don't know...

What I teach because of this is that regardless of the original language, the mindset was Semitic, the idioms and other abstract phraseology also Semitic, and the rules of exegesis also Semitic. Context is lost, when we read the NT, without considering those things.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

SteveCaruso

Translator
May 17, 2010
812
555
✟54,511.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
That said, there are many reasons why I said what I did and stand by it. This is also not the thread for a debate on languages...

You make a fantastical assertion in defense of your argument – one considered pseudoscience by those who are actively in the field, a fringe theory at best – and then (in all practicality) retreat from it while still insisting that you "stand by it"?

As far as debate goes, this is a foul.
 
Upvote 0

Ken Rank

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 12, 2014
7,218
5,560
Winchester, KENtucky
✟286,395.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
You make a fantastical assertion in defense of your argument – one considered pseudoscience by those who are actively in the field, a fringe theory at best – and then (in all practicality) retreat from it while still insisting that you "stand by it"?

As far as debate goes, this is a foul.
I just edited my post... and will cease talking to you now since I am fanatical. If you can't have an intelligent discussion without demeaning the other, then the discussions are a waste of time.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

SteveCaruso

Translator
May 17, 2010
812
555
✟54,511.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
and will cease talking to you now since I am fanatical.

I respectfully ask that you take a closer look at what I typed: "Fantastical" not "fanatical". It is quite a difference and I could see how such a mis-read would mar your opinion of my words. :)

I'll take the time in a bit to read over your edit, as I did not see it before I submitted my response.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.