Where is everybody if Universe really so big?

Obliquinaut · Aug 16, 2017

dad said:
I hope admitting you so not know if time exists as we know it in the far universe will make you happy then.

CAN YOU SAY THERE IS ANYTHING YOU DON'T KNOW?

That is the essence of the key problem. Your haughty spirit and pride seem to obliterate all around you. I'm just curious if your pride is so great you cannot admit any possible error or lack of knowledge.

Also that you gleefully cavort in admitting true deep ignorance of the state or nature on earth in the past!

Ahh, it is refreshing to see the haughty spirit in one so close to God.

AirPo · Aug 16, 2017

dad said:
Be careful when posting claims of the universe you actually are ignorant about I guess.

Take your own advice.

Obliquinaut · Aug 16, 2017

AirPo said:
Take your own advice.

I am truly curious at this point if Dad is strong enough to admit that he is in any way hampered in terms of knowledge.

He is very quick to tell EVERYONE ELSE what they don't know and heaven help you if you are honest enough to admit you don't know something. Dad will pounce on you with the full force of "an haughty spirit".

It would be a joy to see if Dad can admit any lack in this conversation.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

dad · Aug 16, 2017

Shemjaza said:
You accept the concept of space-time? Wow.

How far away is the border of human knowledge?

It's a couple of hundred miles under the Earth... how about the rest of the solar system? Is pluto real, or are the photos from the probes suspect?

What is the furthest man sent a probe that sends clear info still?

dad · Aug 16, 2017

Obliquinaut said:
I am truly curious at this point if Dad is strong enough to admit that he is in any way hampered in terms of knowledge.

He is very quick to tell EVERYONE ELSE what they don't know and heaven help you if you are honest enough to admit you don't know something. Dad will pounce on you with the full force of "an haughty spirit".

It would be a joy to see if Dad can admit any lack in this conversation.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

The point is that whatever anyone knows of the universal mysteries of deep space and time and creation, they do not know from science. Time to admit you only had beliefs.

dad · Aug 16, 2017

Obliquinaut said:
No, it's not kindergarten. It's more college level. It's not distracting if you actually understand philosophy which is exactly where your position founders.

Name some point where you think you have some philosph that either applies or has some merit. Why pretend?

I cannot help it if you are unwilling to view your position as closely as I am.

Yet you haven't got to the place where you properly represent or comprehend my position.

As I said, if you look very closely at what I'm saying and you have even a modicum of curiosity you will see I am actually making a very valid counterpoint to your position. But it will require you to actually look at my posts closely.

Let us look then at what you are saying....spit it out anytime.

dad · Aug 16, 2017

Obliquinaut said:
CAN YOU SAY THERE IS ANYTHING YOU DON'T KNOW?

If science doesn't know, then how would anyone know using science? How would you accept it if they did know using God's word? All that matters is that you do not have any ability to support so called science claims that oppose God's word here.

That is the essence of the key problem. Your haughty spirit and pride seem to obliterate all around you. I'm just curious if your pride is so great you cannot admit any possible error or lack of knowledge.

You mistake pride with educated knowledge. I have experience and knowledge with the claims of science on origins issues, and know they are hot air.

Ahh, it is refreshing to see the haughty spirit in one so close to God.

Let every one that nameth the name of God depart from evil. I would take that to include lies about creation from so called science.

Obliquinaut · Aug 16, 2017

dad said:
If science doesn't know, then how would anyone know using science? How would you accept it if they did know using God's word? All that matters is that you do not have any ability to support so called science claims that oppose God's word here.

So you cannot answer the question honestly and openly?

I can answer it. I don't know everything. There are things I don't know.

Maybe the ebil atheist is a stronger person? Hmmm.

You mistake pride with educated knowledge. I have experience and knowledge with the claims of science on origins issues, and know they are hot air.

So do you think you know all there is to know?

Let every one that nameth the name of God depart from evil.

Do you think you do this?

Again, I can easily answer it for myself: no, I don't! I often get nasty and hurtful in what I say and do. I am not proud of that but it is the truth.

Do you think you are better than that?

This is a test of your pride, Christian.

Who has the haughtiest spirit?

Obliquinaut · Aug 16, 2017

dad said:
Name some point where you think you have some philosph that either applies or has some merit.

I have. It has been done for you repeatedly. Why do you pretend?

Why pretend?

Physician heal thyself.

Yet you haven't got to the place where you properly represent or comprehend my position.

Incorrect. Please do not bear false witness. Perhaps it is only because you have no clue what epistemology or empiricism is or who David Hume is, but you've been told about these things. So I can only assume you are now intentionally acting like no one has said any of this to you before.

Let us look then at what you are saying....spit it out anytime.

I've already done so!

But I'll do it again so that you may bear false witness when the point comes up again in a while.

What you are attempting to leverage is the limit of empiricism as envisaged by David Hume. His idea was that we can't know anything except through direct experience of it. But the limits are that there are many things that cannot be directly experienced, that indeed when you push the accelerator on your car it may only be random chance that causes your car to accelerate. That life is essentially a series of disconnected experiences and that we can't know anything without directly experiencing the predicate actions and subsequent results.

When you say we don't know what is inside the earth because we cannot directly experience it you are correct. But for yourself you reserve a special knowledge even though you also fall afoul of the exact same strictures you apply to everyone else.

In other words: you preserve for yourself a special form of knowledge free of any hindrance but you will put blinkers on every other person who disagrees with you and claim they can know nothing.

I'd like to think you actually care to read what others say but I know you don't. I am uncertain if it is your inability to understand the concepts or your pride. I suspect it is the PRIDE thing. You don't seem capable of anything but solipsistic pride.

Just look when you are asked if there are things you don't know. YOU WILL NEVER ANSWER THE QUESTION.

Your pride is great. It perhaps has blinded you to what others may say. And we all know where pride and an haughty spirit lead....well, at least those of us who have read the bible.

Obliquinaut · Aug 16, 2017

dad said:
The point is that whatever anyone knows of the universal mysteries of deep space and time and creation, they do not know from science. Time to admit you only had beliefs.

Do you feel your beliefs are more or less valid than those of science?

Radrook · Aug 16, 2017

Maybe the universe seems big only from our perspective.

Radrook · Aug 16, 2017

NothingIsImpossible said:
I should add, if there was life out there they would probably come to earth, watch us and be like "Nope, lets find someone else to make first contact with!".

Considering how wee enjoy going for one another's throat, that would be an understandable reaction. I once read a sci fi by Arthur C Clark where humanity had been quarantined on Earth in order to prevent infestation beyond precisely because of our negative characteristics.

lesliedellow · Aug 16, 2017

dad said:
The point is that whatever anyone knows of the universal mysteries of deep space and time and creation, they do not know from science. Time to admit you only had beliefs.

"Time might not exist there."

Or some such nonsense. Well sorry dad, but if we can see a star, it must be emitting photons. If it is emitting photons, those photons must have a velocity. The units of velocity are distance per unit of time. QED, time exists there.

A five year old could work that out, but apparently not Dad.

Monna · Aug 16, 2017

Obliquinaut said:
I can answer it. I don't know everything. There are things I don't know.

All knowledge is actually based on belief. A true scientist wants multiple confirmations of a result of an experiment in order simply to increase the probability that another repetition of the experiment will give a similar result. A true Christian also realises that now we can only know in part. The truth is bigger than any of us, and I can only ever get a limited perception of part of it.

There are things I don't know that I don't know.
There are things I know that I don't know.
There are things I know that I know.
There are even things that I don't 'know' that I know.

Then there are things that I think I know but don't really.
And there are things I pretend not to know which I actually know very well (but refuse to acknowledge to myself or others).

As with most adults, when I hear some new thing ("knowledge"), I automatically and subconsciously weigh it against what I "know" already, with a preference for filtering and adjusting the new knowledge to confirm my existing "knowledge" (actually more a point of view). Not to do so would be naive and lead to serious discrepancies in my thinking and logical processes over time and from subject matter to subject matter. When I cannot make the new fit the old I generally go into an uncomfortable process of adjusting the sum total of my "knowledge." This takes a deliberate effort of the will because it implicitly suggests that somewhere in the past I have made some incorrect assumptions and come to some incorrect conclusions.

My experience running training programs over many years for highly educated professional people is that most reasonable and thinking people will recognise that this is also true of them. However, I know of people who are not willing to admit that they have ever been wrong, and therefore cannot be comfortable with accepting something that is contrary to what they think they "know."

So where is all the intelligent life in the universe (other than on earth)? We don't know. We don't even know if there are other material/bodied life forms. And we know we don't know. But since the chances are not beyond the possibility that there are, we would like to know. Irregardless of space or time. Or of whether or not we are prepared for the answer. We haven't even got a consistently accepted definition of life.

FrumiousBandersnatch · Aug 16, 2017

dad said:
I guess you were saying they wouldn't talk to us because they are not smart enough to reach this far? Ha.

Ah, no. You made that up.

Subduction Zone · Aug 16, 2017

Monna said:
All knowledge is actually based on belief. A true scientist wants multiple confirmations of a result of an experiment in order simply to increase the probability that another repetition of the experiment will give a similar result. A true Christian also realises that now we can only know in part. The truth is bigger than any of us, and I can only ever get a limited perception of part of it.

There are things I don't know that I don't know.
There are things I know that I don't know.
There are things I know that I know.
There are even things that I don't 'know' that I know.

Then there are things that I think I know but don't really.
And there are things I pretend not to know which I actually know very well (but refuse to acknowledge to myself or others).

As with most adults, when I hear some new thing ("knowledge"), I automatically and subconsciously weigh it against what I "know" already, with a preference for filtering and adjusting the new knowledge to confirm my existing "knowledge" (actually more a point of view). Not to do so would be naive and lead to serious discrepancies in my thinking and logical processes over time and from subject matter to subject matter. When I cannot make the new fit the old I generally go into an uncomfortable process of adjusting the sum total of my "knowledge." This takes a deliberate effort of the will because it implicitly suggests that somewhere in the past I have made some incorrect assumptions and come to some incorrect conclusions.

My experience running training programs over many years for highly educated professional people is that most reasonable and thinking people will recognise that this is also true of them. However, I know of people who are not willing to admit that they have ever been wrong, and therefore cannot be comfortable with accepting something that is contrary to what they think they "know."

So where is all the intelligent life in the universe (other than on earth)? We don't know. We don't even know if there are other material/bodied life forms. And we know we don't know. But since the chances are not beyond the possibility that there are, we would like to know. Irregardless of space or time. Or of whether or not we are prepared for the answer. We haven't even got a consistently accepted definition of life.

Not a bad post, but a couple of points. The odds are very very high that there is intelligent life somewhere else in the universe. The problem is that we have only one statistical sample, the Earth. And it took 4.5 billion years for intelligent life to arise here. Will other have planets have life? I have heard it argued that life will almost always arise naturally when the conditions are right. But I have not heard how likely that even multicellular life would arise. It took about 3 billion years for life to evolve from single cellular to multicellular here. So if we do ever go planet hoping, the odds are quite high that we won't find anything much more complex than the equivalent of stromatolites at most planets.

But right now we are stuck on the Earth. All we can hope for is to find evidence of life on other planets. And the only way we can conceivably do that is with radio signals. That is the only technology that we have right now for detecting possible intelligent life. And since the intensity of radio signals drops off at an inverse square ratio the odds of picking up anything farther than 10 light years away is almost zero unless someone is actively trying to signal another world in that manner.

In other words, there is no reason to think that we would be able to detect intelligent life elsewhere, yet.

Shemjaza · Aug 16, 2017

dad said:
What is the furthest man sent a probe that sends clear info still?

Well, Voyager is beyond the orbits of all the known planets.

If you trust signals from space probes, why don't you trust signals from stars and galaxies?

Why even trust that I exist, isn't it just as possible that Australia is a "different state"?

Tutorman · Aug 16, 2017

Voyager was in the Delta quadrant

Obliquinaut · Aug 17, 2017

Shemjaza said:
Well, Voyager is beyond the orbits of all the known planets.

If you trust signals from space probes, why don't you trust signals from stars and galaxies?

Why even trust that I exist, isn't it just as possible that Australia is a "different state"?

I would dearly love to see the contour map of "belief in science" plotted as a function of distance from Dad. I suspect it isn't just a bunch of concentric circles but also has some valleys and hills predicated on "convenience" for his argument.

dad · Aug 17, 2017

Obliquinaut said:
So you cannot answer the question honestly and openly?

I can answer it. I don't know everything. There are things I don't know.

Maybe the ebil atheist is a stronger person? Hmmm.

Strawman...now we are supposed to know everything? Foolishness. On the topic here, which is the strange silence in the universe, science doesn't know. No one knows. Therefore we use whatever clues and basis for reality and guesses that we have. In my case, I primarily ask what the One who does know has to say on the issue. I have pointed out several things from the bible why it seems more logical to deduce that there are no created aliens living in this temporary universe.

In lieu of any substantive arguments on the issue from you we get strange, shrill, red herring chirpings about being a know it all or not.

Where is everybody if Universe really so big?

Сделайте Америку прекрасной

with a Touch of Grey

Сделайте Америку прекрасной

Undefeated!

Undefeated!

Undefeated!

Undefeated!

Сделайте Америку прекрасной

Сделайте Америку прекрасной

Сделайте Америку прекрасной

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Charismatic Episcopalian

Сделайте Америку прекрасной

Undefeated!

Similar threads