Hypothetical: Creationism becomes standard in science classes

VirOptimus · Aug 15, 2017

KWCrazy said:
Heres a physical reality for you.
Science tells us that energy/matter cannot be created or destroyed, only changed in form. So the universe could not have a beginning.
Science tells us that the entire universe is in a state of decay and will one day be a soup of more or less evenly dispersed energy. So the universe is not eternal. It's finite. It has an end.... but it couldn't have a beginning. So what happens before the beginning?
Before anything there is nothing. In nothingness there is no heat energy and so nothing happens. Ever. Beginning with nothing you have nothing for eternity. Since it could have no beginning and it is not eternal, the universe therefore does not exist.

I see, there are more things you know nothing about. Learn som basics before trying to debate.

Ajflyguy7 · Aug 15, 2017

KWCrazy said:
Science doesn't contradict the Bible because science is the study of the physical world. It can't confirm or disprove supernatural happenings.

It's actually the inspired word of God.

Yes, Christ confirmed it.
The Bible says a Great Fish, and who says he was alive before he was coughed up?

We know these things defy natural law. Miracles are supposed to do that.

No, science is a field of study. What it does in relation to our lives depends on how it is applied.

No, ignorance is.

I could demonstrate scientific facts from them, actually.
Were you well educated, you would know that the Bible does hint at things science didn't know until hundreds of years later.

Only in recent years has science discovered that everything we see is composed of invisible atoms. Here, Scripture tells us that the "things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

Medical science has only recently discovered that blood-clotting in a newborn reaches its peak on the eighth day, then drops. The Bible consistently says that a baby must be circumcised on the eighth day.

At a time when it was believed that the earth sat on a large animal or a giant (1500 B.C.), the Bible spoke of the earth’s free float in space: "He...hangs the earth upon nothing" (Job 26:7).

The prophet Isaiah also tells us that the earth is round: "It is he that sits upon the circle of the earth" (Isaiah 40:22). This is not a reference to a flat disk, as some skeptic maintain, but to a sphere. Secular man discovered this 2,400 years later. It was the Scriptures that inspired Christopher Columbus to sail around the world (Proverbs 3:6).

God told Job in 1500 B.C.: "Can you send lightnings, that they may go, and say to you, Here we are?" (Job 38:35). The Bible here is making what appears to be a scientifically ludicrous statement—that light can be sent, and then manifest itself in speech. But did you know that radio waves travel at the speed of light? This is why you can have instantaneous wireless communication with someone on the other side of the earth. Science didn’t discover this until 1864 when "British scientist James Clerk Maxwell suggested that electricity and light waves were two forms of the same thing".

Job 38:19 asks, "Where is the way where light dwells?" Modern man has only recently discovered that light (electromagnetic radiation) has a "way," traveling at 186,000 miles per second.

Science has discovered that stars emit radio waves, which are received on earth as a high pitch. God mentioned this in Job 38:7: "When the morning stars sang together..."

Solomon described a "cycle" of air currents two thousand years before scientists "discovered" them. "The wind goes toward the south, and turns about unto the north; it whirls about continually, and the wind returns again according to his circuits" (Ecclesiastes 1:6).

Science expresses the universe in five terms: time, space, matter, power, and motion. Genesis 1:1,2 revealed such truths to the Hebrews in 1450 B.C.: "In the beginning [time] God created [power] the heaven [space] and the earth [matter] . . . And the Spirit of God moved [motion] upon the face of the waters." The first thing God tells man is that He controls of all aspects of the universe.

The great biological truth concerning the importance of blood in our body’s mechanism has been fully comprehended only in recent years. Up until 120 years ago, sick people were "bled," and many died because of the practice. If you lose your blood, you lose your life. Yet Leviticus 17:11, written 3,000 years ago, declared that blood is the source of life: "For the life of the flesh is in the blood."

Encyclopedia Britannica documents that in 1845, a young doctor in Vienna named Dr. Ignaz Semmelweis was horrified at the terrible death rate of women who gave birth in hospitals. As many as 30 percent died after giving birth. Semmelweis noted that doctors would examine the bodies of patients who died, then, without washing their hands, go straight to the next ward and examine expectant mothers. This was their normal practice, because the presence of microscopic diseases was unknown. Semmelweis insisted that doctors wash their hands before examinations, and the death rate immediately dropped to 2 percent. Look at the specific instructions God gave His people for when they encounter disease: "And when he that has an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself even days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in running water, and shall be clean" (Leviticus 15:13). Until recent years, doctors washed their hands in a bowl of water, leaving invisible germs on their hands. However, the Bible says specifically to wash hands under "running water."

Luke 17:34–36 says the Second Coming of Jesus Christ will occur while some are asleep at night and others are working at daytime activities in the field. This is a clear indication of a revolving earth, with day and night at the same time.

Nothing in the Bible, however, suggests that God is limited by natural laws.

Four compass points on a map; east, west, south and north. Incidentally, Jesus knew that east and west never met but north and south did 1,500 years before anyone else did.

Then you are a prisoner of your own ignorance. God, not science, is lord of the universe.

Again, your ignorance of the Lord is showing here.
Suppose I hand you a rock. That rock is in a constant state of decay, so we know it's not eternal. It is comprised of minerals which cannot be created from nothing. Yet it exists. The origination of anything from nothing is impossible and yet if something is in a constant state of decay (or increasing entropy) it had to have a beginning. Science can't explain origination.

God, however, could create that rock by force of will. So you believe in something that has no answer and reject something which does. Logical? Not at all.

Need further proof? Okay. Energy and matter are convertible. God has endless energy. God's energy can convert into matter.

Millions who have a personal relationship with Jesus would laugh at your ignorance in this statement. You might as well say our neighbor doesn't exist. Just because you lack a complete understanding of reality, it doesn't mean we're all blind.

You realize there were over 500 witnesses, right?
You DO realize that these 500 people could have shouted down any story anyone could make up were it not true, right.... and that the penalty for heresy was execution?
You know that the witnesses went to their grave without denying what they saw, right?
I doubt you could find 500 people who would testify that you exist, which means the resurrection has more evidence than you do.

You argue for the significant scientific achievements that were hinted at in the Bible, yet the Bible has ignorance including don't wear a fabric made of unlike cloths. The Bible says not to eat pork or shellfish when we know they are both perfectly fine to eat. I wouldn't really say that any of your comments about scientific hinting are valid in any way. You can interpret them to be great knowledge about future scientific discoveries, but why didn't God just give us useful information. Instead, he made it cryptic and passed bad information to people. God gave us such great knowledge like you can beat your slaves as long as they don't die within a day or two, but couldn't say doctors, clean your hands before and after you interact with each patient? Ultimately, God didn't really give us any great knowledge in the Bible. You forgot to mention where the Bible talks about the Earth's foundations and pillars. You argue the Bible points to a spherical earth, why didn't it just say spherical instead of the circle of the Earth? That would make more sense.

You say that everything must come from something and must have a beginning, I assume that your God is immune from that?

Millions of people have a "relationship" with Jesus, not at all convincing for me. You can talk to people today who were abducted by aliens, I don't believe them either. Religion is a long process of indoctrination and affirmation, you can make people believe in almost anything if you brainwash them and continually feed them positive information. There is absolutely zero evidence that your God exists. Oh yeah, he has a book. Well, so do thousands of other religions, you don't believe them either.

There may be a claim that there were 500 eyewitnesses to the resurrection, but there are zero documents written by eyewitnesses. The earliest documentation of the "resurrection" comes more than 40 years later. Do you think this could have been a story that was embellished along the way and then written down? There is no good evidence for the resurrection. Throughout history there are other Gods who have been resurrected (I believe about 16), do you believe their claims?

AV1611VET · Aug 15, 2017

Ajflyguy7 said:
So, you believe the Bible is true because it says it is true?

Its Author lives with me.

If I told you that I were really Jesus, would you believe that this is the second coming?

Here, I'll quote this verse and let you predict if I'm going to answer YES or NO.

Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

What's your prediction?

Did you predict NO?

Good for you! :oldthumbsup:

See ... you used the 1611 KJB to accurately predict how I would answer!

Lol, you think that water surrounded the Earth and came down to cause a worldwide flood?

I don't know if it surrounded the earth.

I like to think it was taken to the moon.

(Another poster here thinks Mars.)

Then was siphoned off afterward?

Yes.

And they left behind meandering rivers etched into the earth's surface.

Psalm 104:8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.

Did the aliens get a big straw and suck the water out?

No.

The water went to a pre-arranged siphoning point(s), via pre-arranged paths.

You don't see any other issues with the Noah's Ark story (Noah's age, getting the animals on the Ark, feeding the animals, separating the animals, cleaning up after the animals, Noah building the largest wooden ship ever without modern technology, the Ark not breaking into pieces, animals getting back to their proper climates, fish living in a drastically changed environment whether it be saltiness or temperature, etc.).

Are you telling me or asking me?

Since the Bible isn't a science book, why would you believe it over science when they disagree? That doesn't make any sense.

Faith.

You still didn't provide any backing for your belief in the Bible, only the Bible says its true, so it must be.

Ajflyguy7 · Aug 15, 2017

I'm glad this is only a hypothetical. The place for children to learn about religion is not in school, they should learn facts and critical thinking in school, not myths and blind faith. It's funny to me that Christians can't even agree on a version of creation to teach based on their "infallible" Bible. Why would we teach something that's not scientific in a science class? It would be better to teach the creation story from the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, at least it is scientifically based. We know that as the number of pirates in the world has decreased, the temperature of the Earth has increased. Additionally, the Flying Spaghetti Monster's Heaven is way better.

FrumiousBandersnatch · Aug 15, 2017

AV1611VET said:
...Why do I believe Joe's phone number is 555-5555? because the phone book says it, and I believe the phone book to be the most authoritative document.

Because I take It on faith. Faith that was generated and is now growing by reading It.

Books usually have some errors - so it could have the wrong number for Joe. Thing is, with the phone book you can ring the number and find out, or you could ask Joe next time you see him; with the bible, not so much.

Occams Barber · Aug 15, 2017

So, after 53 pages of discussion and 1045 posts;

Did anyone come up with a lesson plan for Creationism 101?

OB

AV1611VET · Aug 15, 2017

Ajflyguy7 said:
Why would we teach something that's not scientific in a science class?

You just can't get science out of your DNA, can you?

There are other classes in school that you can take.

Like HISTORY.

The Bible is not science, and teaching It in science class is like teaching the Civil War* in auto shop.

* You are familiar with the Civil War, aren't you? the War Between the States? the North vs the South? Grant vs Lee? freedom vs slavery? the creationists vs the evolutionists?

AV1611VET · Aug 15, 2017

FrumiousBandersnatch said:
Thing is, with the phone book you can ring the number and find out,

Then give God a call.

Want His number?

Its Jeremiah 333.

Jeremiah 33:3 Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.

Ajflyguy7 · Aug 15, 2017

AV1611VET said:
You just can't get science out of your DNA, can you?

There are other classes in school that you can take.

Like HISTORY.

The Bible is not science, and teaching It in science class is like teaching the Civil War* in auto shop.

* You are familiar with the Civil War, aren't you? the War Between the States? the North vs the South? Grant vs Lee? freedom vs slavery? the creationists vs the evolutionists?

Great, teach a comparative religions class in school. Otherwise, religion doesn't belong in school. If you want your kid to learn about the Bible, take them to Bible study at your church.

Funny that you throw in creationists vs evolutionists, biblical creation is incorrect and evolution has a mountain of evidence backing it up. There is no debate here, animals evolve and we have a record of their changes over time. Open your mind and discover all of the amazing things the creators of the Bible were too ignorant to know about.

AV1611VET · Aug 15, 2017

Occams Barber said:
So, after 53 pages of discussion and 1045 posts;

Did anyone come up with a lesson plan for Creationism 101?

Yes.

Genesis 101

Genesis 1:01 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

AV1611VET · Aug 15, 2017

Ajflyguy7 said:
Great, teach a comparative religions class in school.

What?

Otherwise, religion doesn't belong in school.

Quite correct. Religion belongs in Hell.

If you want your kid to learn about the Bible, take them to Bible study at your church.

Good idea. I'll do that. Did your parents do the same thing? or were you a bus kid?

Funny that you throw in creationists vs evolutionists, biblical creation is incorrect and evolution has a mountain of evidence backing it up.

So did Phlogiston, Pluto, Thalidomide, geocentrism, flat earth, Aryan supremacy, Lamarckism, Nebraska man, and a host of other junk science at one time.

There is no debate here, animals evolve and we have a record of their changes over time.

Only on paper.

Open your mind and discover all of the amazing things the creators of the Bible were too ignorant to know about.

1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Subduction Zone · Aug 15, 2017

AV1611VET said:
Yes.

Genesis 101

Genesis 1:01 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

So that's a no then.

Paul of Eugene OR · Aug 15, 2017

AV1611VET said:
. . . 1Its Author lives with me. . . .

FINALLY breaking out of the circular logic thingy. Please START with that next time you are asked why one should believe the Bible. And perhaps if you really, really strain yourself you can come up with other things that aren't circular logic.

Paul of Eugene OR · Aug 15, 2017

Ken Behrens said:
It is a supposition that the physical constants have not changed. For that matter, it is a supposition that logic can analyze things correctly. It certainly doesn't work to analyze God, who we are told is love, since love is not logical.
. . . . . . .

Love is perfectly logical. Of course, love isn't consistent with total dedication to self preservation. If you think that only by being totally dedicated to self preservation we can be logical, then you are making, yourself, a logical error. But if you would drop that illogical premise, then you can see where love can be perfectly logical.

Of course, there are other errors in your objection. "God is love" is not a definition of God, for example. Rather, it is a description of God, and not an exhaustive description of Him.

AV1611VET · Aug 15, 2017

Paul of Eugene OR said:
FINALLY breaking out of the circular logic thingy. Please START with that next time you are asked why one should believe the Bible. And perhaps if you really, really strain yourself you can come up with other things that aren't circular logic.

LOL ... wow.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Science can take a hike.

Speedwell · Aug 15, 2017

AV1611VET said:
LOL ... wow.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

And you don't see the gratuitous assumptions you are making, quoting that verse as a justification for literal inerrancy?

KWCrazy · Aug 15, 2017

VirOptimus said:
I see, there are more things you know nothing about. Learn som basics before trying to debate.

If you could produce logical arguments I might take you seriously, but since you can't and all you can do is make personal attacks I won't waste my time conversing with you any longer.

For the rest of you reading this, it is an unmistakable fact that the laws of thermodynamics disallow any spontaneous auto-creation of anything from nothingness. Quantum theory does not and cannot change this fact because the coupling and uncoupling of subatomic particles too small to be affected by gravitational influences do not, repeat, do not amount to things popping in and out of existence. There are, after all, subatomic particles there in the first place.

However, I'm not the only person to cite natural law as a barrier to the spontaneous auto-creation of the universe. Some people have written books on the matter.

There are only two options for the origin of matter: it is either eternal or it appeared at a finite point in the past. With the elucidation of the First Law of Thermodynamics the implications of this debate, as we will see, have been clearly defined.

Faced with the evidence of a finite, expanding universe, cosmologists began to look for a way to salvage the existence of an eternal universe. In the 1940's Hermann Bondi, Thomas Gold and Fred Hoyle proposed a mechanism that would allow the expanding universe to still be infinitely old. This model for the universe, called the "Steady State Model," asserts that as the universe expands, hydrogen atoms arise spontaneously from nothing in the deep recesses of space. The result is that the universe appears about the same (in a "steady state") in all ages.

In the last forty years this model for the universe has been discredited by a number of scientific discoveries. The first of these has to do with the age of the galaxies. If the universe is infinitely old then we should expect to find galaxies of all ages. However decades of observations reveal that all the visible galaxies in our universe are "middle aged." Secondly, there is no physical (natural) mechanism for the spontaneous origin of hydrogen atoms. In fact, hydrogen atoms have never been observed to appear spontaneously anywhere in the universe.
Thirdly, Isaac Newton's Law of Inertia declares that a body at rest will remain at rest unless acted upon by an outside force. In the Steady State Model there is no mechanism to explain the motion of the galaxies.

The First Law of Thermodynamics is called a "law" because within the bounds of scientific observation it has been proven true beyond all reasonable doubt. In effect, the First Law states that you and I can neither create nor destroy matter. Therefore, it follows that if something which exists (you and I) cannot create matter, then something which doesn't exist cannot create it either!

Matter cannot create itself and, in the real world, cannot arise from nothing. Within the bounds of natural law all effects must have a cause. Because of this fact, the spontaneous appearance of hydrogen atoms out of nothing (ex nihilo creation) is a definite breach of the First Law of Thermodynamics which asserts that matter, under natural circumstances, can neither be created nor destroyed. Therefore, since it is not a natural event, it is by definition a supernatural event-a miracle! This is, we believe, a rather weak starting point for a materialistic scenario to begin.

To avoid this conclusion, a number of physicists have proposed that the laws of physics are different elsewhere in the universe. However, this assertion is not supported by even a shred of scientific evidence. Such appeals reveal the lengths that some will go to avoid a finite beginning for the universe.
source

Perhaps some of our pompous and arrogant devotee's of science should learn some of its laws before pretending to know something others do not.

KWCrazy · Aug 15, 2017

Ajflyguy7 said:
You argue for the significant scientific achievements that were hinted at in the Bible, yet the Bible has ignorance including don't wear a fabric made of unlike cloths.

I'm sorry but the ignorance is yours.
The law, it is to be observed, did not prohibit the Israelites wearing many different kinds of cloths together, but only the two specified; and the observations and researches of modern science have proved that "wool, when combined with linen, increases its power of passing off the electricity from the body. In hot climates, it brings on malignant fevers and exhausts the strength; and when passing off from the body, it meets with the heated air, inflames and excoriates like a blister" . (See Eze 44:17, 18). source

The Bible says not to eat pork or shellfish when we know they are both perfectly fine to eat.

In a modern pig farm pigs are raised on slatted floors which are cleaned out every 10 minutes so your risk of exposure to trichinosis is small, but in those days pigs were raised in pens, allowed to eat their own feces and disease was more common.
As for shellfish:
If you collect bivalve molluscs (oyster, razor clams, cockles, mussels) from the wild and eat them raw, there is a reasonable chance you will poison yourself.

The list of possible toxic agents is long and worrying. Bacteria, such as E coli, are almost always present at some level in any bivalve. There is also a risk in some areas of pollution from heavy metals and industrial compounds. The most exotic of infestations are the algal species that can suddenly arise in so-called algal blooms. These produce an interesting variety of toxins with an interesting variety of symptoms.

DSP (diarrhoetic shellfish poisoning) causes what you expect it to cause; PSP (paralytic shellfish poisoning) causes breathlessness, tingling in the mouth, gastro-intestinal problems and muscular weakness.

NSP (neurotoxic shellfish poisoning) produces a burning sensation in various, sometimes unfortunate parts of the body. And finally there is ASP (amnesic shellfish poisoning) whose symptoms I can never remember.

Algal toxins can, very infrequently, cause serious illness and even death, but in practice they are seldom a problem.

The final and most troublesome contamination is from viruses. This is generally the norovirus. It is fairly prevalent but it is the level of contamination that matters. source
People didn't know about germs in those days, but the Lord did.

You can interpret them to be great knowledge about future scientific discoveries, but why didn't God just give us useful information.

He did.
Acts 16-31 "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved."
What better information is there?

God gave us such great knowledge like you can beat your slaves as long as they don't die within a day or two, but couldn't say doctors, clean your hands before and after you interact with each patient?

Leviticus 15:13 And when he that hath an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself seven days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in running water, and shall be clean.
Running water, not standing water. Running water washes the germs away.
As for the treatment of slaves, mankind has always had a savage streak. God told his people to show them kindness. Remember, there is no real distinction between a slave and an indentured servant who works for his board. We still have forced labor today, only you aren't beaten. You get a paycheck. You still put food on your table by the sweat of your brow... unless you're a welfare recipient. Then it's by someone else's sweat.

You forgot to mention where the Bible talks about the Earth's foundations and pillars.

Those are real. They are just not literally physical objects. Many things are hidden in the text from the eyes of the unrighteous.

You argue the Bible points to a spherical earth, why didn't it just say spherical instead of the circle of the Earth? That would make more sense.

To readers 3,000 years later maybe.

You say that everything must come from something and must have a beginning, I assume that your God is immune from that?

I presume you know the difference between natural and supernatural; between physical and non-physical. Why would you attribute physical characteristics to supernatural entities? Can you grasp a cloud? Does that mean it doesn't exist?

Millions of people have a "relationship" with Jesus, not at all convincing for me.

That's because you are lost and blind, and you seem to think that the physical world is the only existence. Your mind is closed. A closed mind is as useful as a closed book.

Do you think this could have been a story that was embellished along the way and then written down?

Not a chance.

There is no good evidence for the resurrection.

Not to you.
You will believe one day.
Hopefully you will discover God through faith before you encounter Him in person.

Ajflyguy7 · Aug 15, 2017

KWCrazy said:
I'm sorry but the ignorance is yours.
The law, it is to be observed, did not prohibit the Israelites wearing many different kinds of cloths together, but only the two specified; and the observations and researches of modern science have proved that "wool, when combined with linen, increases its power of passing off the electricity from the body. In hot climates, it brings on malignant fevers and exhausts the strength; and when passing off from the body, it meets with the heated air, inflames and excoriates like a blister" . (See Eze 44:17, 18). source

In a modern pig farm pigs are raised on slatted floors which are cleaned out every 10 minutes so your risk of exposure to trichinosis is small, but in those days pigs were raised in pens, allowed to eat their own feces and disease was more common.
As for shellfish:
If you collect bivalve molluscs (oyster, razor clams, cockles, mussels) from the wild and eat them raw, there is a reasonable chance you will poison yourself.

The list of possible toxic agents is long and worrying. Bacteria, such as E coli, are almost always present at some level in any bivalve. There is also a risk in some areas of pollution from heavy metals and industrial compounds. The most exotic of infestations are the algal species that can suddenly arise in so-called algal blooms. These produce an interesting variety of toxins with an interesting variety of symptoms.

DSP (diarrhoetic shellfish poisoning) causes what you expect it to cause; PSP (paralytic shellfish poisoning) causes breathlessness, tingling in the mouth, gastro-intestinal problems and muscular weakness.

NSP (neurotoxic shellfish poisoning) produces a burning sensation in various, sometimes unfortunate parts of the body. And finally there is ASP (amnesic shellfish poisoning) whose symptoms I can never remember.

Algal toxins can, very infrequently, cause serious illness and even death, but in practice they are seldom a problem.

The final and most troublesome contamination is from viruses. This is generally the norovirus. It is fairly prevalent but it is the level of contamination that matters. source
People didn't know about germs in those days, but the Lord did.

He did.
Acts 16-31 "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved."
What better information is there?

Leviticus 15:13 And when he that hath an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself seven days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in running water, and shall be clean.
Running water, not standing water. Running water washes the germs away.
As for the treatment of slaves, mankind has always had a savage streak. God told his people to show them kindness. Remember, there is no real distinction between a slave and an indentured servant who works for his board. We still have forced labor today, only you aren't beaten. You get a paycheck. You still put food on your table by the sweat of your brow... unless you're a welfare recipient. Then it's by someone else's sweat.

Those are real. They are just not literally physical objects. Many things are hidden in the text from the eyes of the unrighteous.

To readers 3,000 years later maybe.

I presume you know the difference between natural and supernatural; between physical and non-physical. Why would you attribute physical characteristics to supernatural entities? Can you grasp a cloud? Does that mean it doesn't exist?

That's because you are lost and blind, and you seem to think that the physical world is the only existence. Your mind is closed. A closed mind is as useful as a closed book.

Not a chance.

Not to you.
You will believe one day.
Hopefully you will discover God through faith before you encounter Him in person.

Sorry, the ignorance is in the bible and Christianity. Your book and religion are taken from previous religions and repackaged. That applies to dates and traditions as well. Don't worry, Jesus wasn't the first guy to be resurrected, it's an old idea. He also wasn't the first to be born of a virgin. Really, he wasn't the first of anything in religion, just a re-packaging of other gods. I'd be happy to meet your god in person, he's powerless to do anything to me.

KWCrazy · Aug 15, 2017

Ajflyguy7 said:
Sorry, the ignorance is in the bible and Christianity....

I'm just glad I'm not you.

Hypothetical: Creationism becomes standard in science classes

A nihilist who cares.

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