What is the Day of the Lord?

parousia70

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I'm saying that Preterism is bad news.....[It] is evil in that it's a complete denial of God's foreknowledge of latter times, is in denial of entire books of prophecy like Revelation, entire chapters like Mathew 24, and hundreds of verses. It is "incoherently illogical" and borderline ANTICHRIST.

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that The events of the apocalypse were ordained to come to pass "shortly" after they were predicted. (Revelation 1:1-3)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that some of the apostles would live to see the parousia. (Matthew 16::28)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that the parousia would occur before the apostles generation had passed away. (Matthew 24:34)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that on the "new earth" Birth, ageing, murderers, adulterers, fornicators, liars, sorcorers and death, continue to exist.(Isaiah 65:17-23)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that Satan was defeated once and for all almost 2000 years ago. (John 12:31 and Matthew 12:28-29, Hebrews 2:14-15 and 1 John 3:8).

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that Jesus Christ rules this earth Today and evermore. (Matthew 28:18, Revelation 1:5)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that the events of the Revelation of Jesus Christ were already underway at the time John wrote the Book and were to come to completion within the lifetime of the original receivers of the message. (Revelation 1:9-10)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches ours is a "world without end, amen" (Isaiah 45:17, Ephesians 3:21)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that in times past God often "came down to earth", "riding a cloud" "wielding His sword", "destroying His enemies with His brightness" being "seen by every eye", "causing the Heavens to dissolve", "melting mountains" "cleaving them "into valleys" laying the foundations of the earth "bare", causing "the sun to go dark" and the Moon to "not give it's light"...
(Gen. 11:5, 7) (Ex. 3:8) (Neh. 9:13a) (Psalm 144:5) (Isa. 31:4) (Isa. 64:1) (Isa. 64:3) (Micah 1:3-4) (Hab. 3:6, 10) (Isaiah 55:12)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that the literal earth and created universe will exist forever (Ecc 1:4; Eph 3:21; Ps 78:69; Ps 89:36-37)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that literal Human generations on earth continue in perpetuity (Ps 145:13; Dan 4:3, 34; Luke 1:33)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that the literal INCREASE of souls over whom Christ governs will go on forever (Isaiah 9:7)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that whatever changes God has in store for the future of our literal universe, the timing and details have not been revealed to men. (Deut 29:29)

The Bible, and therefore preterism, is true and correct.
 
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parousia70

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Forgive me if I'm mistaken, I may have misread you OR mistaking you with something someone else was saying.
No worries friend. I'm happy to help clear things up however I can.

All I know is that in the OT the Day of the Lord is always used when prophecy is or will be fulfilled, but in the NT every verse that has the term in it, as far as I know, refers to the consummation of the age.

So far I do not see anything here to disagree with.

I suppose we would have to establish WHICH age though.
And also, the OT Day of the Lord events teach us the Nature of the NT day of the Lord.

In Isaiah 13 he speaks of the Day of the LORD in a prophetic sense knowing that judgment day for Babylon was coming, but also that the final fulfillment of that Day comes at the return of Jesus.

I don't see anything in Isaiah 13 about the coming of Jesus. Can you point me to where you believe the subject matter changes from Babylon's pending fall to the Medes?

Isaiah 13:1 The burden against Babylon which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw.

In this chapter God is talking about the judgement that is to fall upon Babylon. The word burden is the Hebrew word massa', which is an utterance, chiefly a doom. This introduction sets the stage for the subject matter in this chapter and if we forget this, our interpretations of Isaiah 13 can go just about anywhere our imagination wants to go. This is not an oracle against the universe or world but against the nation of Babylon.

Behold, the day of the LORD comes, cruel, with both wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate; and He will destroy its sinners from it. For the stars of heaven and their constellations will not give their light; the sun will be darkened in its going forth, and the moon will not cause its light to shine. "I will punish the world for its evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; I will halt the arrogance of the proud, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. I will make a mortal more rare than fine gold, a man more than the golden wedge of Ophir. Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth will move out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts and in the day of His fierce anger. It shall be as the hunted gazelle, and as a sheep that no man takes up; every man will turn to his own people, and everyone will flee to his own land. Everyone who is found will be thrust through, and everyone who is captured will fall by the sword. Their children also will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be plundered and their wives ravished."

Now remember he is speaking about the destruction of Babylon even though it sounds like world wide destruction. The terminology of a context cannot be expanded beyond the scope of the subject under discussion.

That bears repeating.

The terminology of a context cannot be expanded beyond the scope of the subject under discussion.

The spectrum of language surely cannot go outside the land of Babylon. If you were a Babylonian and Babylon was destroyed would it seem like the world was destroyed? Yes! Your world would be destroyed.

Isaiah 13:17 "Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, Who will not regard silver; And as for gold, they will not delight in it.

This is an historical event that took place in 539 BC. When the Medes destroyed Babylon the Babylonian world came to an end. This destruction is said in verse 6 to be from the Almighty, and the Medes constitute the means that God uses to accomplish this task. The physical heaven and earth were still in tact, but for Babylon they had collapsed. This is CLASSIC apocalyptic language.
This is the way the Bible, time and again, uses language of worldwide & even universal cataclysm to describe the fall of an individual nation in real history.

There is no instruction for us to apply a polar opposite interpretation to this language documenting the nature of the OT day of the Lord events when we find the same language used to describe the nature of the NT day of the Lord.
 
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parousia70

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I don't have time to fully respond to you post but...
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;
That's not such a good translation. It's more accurate to say it like the interlinear.
"To be occuring in switness....
meaning things will pass swiftly. Take a look...

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/rev1.pdf

OK, Even if I give you "Things will pass swiftly once they start" John Adds "FOR THE TIME IS NEAR" (Revelation 1:3) which "things will pass swiftly once they start" does not answer for. And We know when Jesus uses "the time is Near" he means near in Human timing, not in God's timing (cf. Matthew 24:33)

Seems the Interlinear agrees.

The interlinear also agrees that John Claimed to be writing during the "Day of the Lord" (The Lords Day) Revelation 1:10

And the Interlinear also agrees that The Tribulation of Jesus Christ was already underway when John was writing (Revelation 1:9)

One must blatantly disregard these clear statements to conclude the opposite of what they plainly teach.
 
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parousia70

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Go back to school, learn what partial preterism is, and report back to me. If you still think that believing in fulfilled prophecy is partial preterism, you need a mentor.

Do you believe Peter was correct in claiming that at least this part of Joel's "Last Days" prophesy was being fulfilled in front of his and all their eyes @ Pentecost?:

Acts 2:14-18
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17 ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.

And How about the letter to the Hebrews?

Hebrews 1:1-2
1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;

If you, Like Peter, believe the fulfillment of Joel's "Last Days" prophesy was even partially underway at Pentecost, and you, like the writer of Hebrews, believe Jesus' incarnational ministry took place during the Biblical "Last Days", then you are, by ANY definition, a PARTIAL Preterist.

:clap::wave::oldthumbsup:
 
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JLB777

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I suggest you do a search engine review of the Biblical meaning of the Day of the Lord.


Quasar92


I suggest you search the Bible itself for the meaning of the Day of the Lord, and leave the commentary to others.

The Day of the Lord is the coming of the Lord with all His saints, to gather His people together, at the resurrection and rapture, in which the antichrist and the wicked are destroyed.


15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:5


Key Verse's:

  • that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
  • we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them
  • For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.
  • when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them


JLB
 
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Small Fish

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And we are to expect a prophet before the day of the Lord

Malachi (KJV)

4 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.

4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
 
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claninja

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Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

Matthew 11:13-14 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John, and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come.

Matthew 17:11-13 He answered, “Elijah does come, and he will restore all things. But I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of Man will certainly suffer at their hands.” Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist.


And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Luke 1:16-17 And he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God, and he will go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready for the Lord a people prepared.”
 
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Quasar92

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I suggest you search the Bible itself for the meaning of the Day of the Lord, and leave the commentary to others.

The Day of the Lord is the coming of the Lord with all His saints, to gather His people together, at the resurrection and rapture, in which the antichrist and the wicked are destroyed.


15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:5


Key Verse's:

  • that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
  • we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them
  • For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.
  • when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them

JLB


Your views that the teaching of Paul, about the rapture of the Church, is by no means what the Day of the Lord is. But rather, it is known as the Day of Christ.


Quasar92
 
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parousia70

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There are times in the OT when the Day of the Lord is mentioned and it refers to a day of vengeance etc. and fulfillment of an OT prophecy

Your understanding and acceptance of this fact is music to my ears.

but it's almost always coupled with the final Day and consummation of the age.

Interesting theory about this "coupling" you speak of.
Who taught it to you?
Can you show this "coupling" from scripture?

In every instance in the NT it implies the closing of the age.
What age?
 
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Small Fish

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Matthew 11:13-14 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John, and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come.

Matthew 17:11-13 He answered, “Elijah does come, and he will restore all things. But I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of Man will certainly suffer at their hands.” Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist.




Luke 1:16-17 And he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God, and he will go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready for the Lord a people prepared.”

Yes, I've heard this answer before but for me it does not ad up. I'll tell you why and it's a simple reason. John the Baptist never came before the great and terrible day of the Lord.
So I can't agree with your answer.

Another reason is that God does not send judgment before sending a prophet first. Go and search the Scriptures and you'll see.

Amos3:7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

So either our idea of the great and terrible day is wrong which is the day of the Lord and we aren't expecting any judgment to come or God must send a prophet.

Or unless His Word said something wrong.
 
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parousia70

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Yes, I've heard this answer before but for me it does not ad up. I'll tell you why and it's a simple reason. John the Baptist never came before the great and terrible day of the Lord.
Are you saying he came AFTER it?.

So either our idea of the great and terrible day is wrong which is the day of the Lord and we aren't expecting any judgment to come or God must send a prophet.

Or unless His Word said something wrong.

Yeah, Since His word is pure and true, I'm going to go with your idea of "the day of the Lord" is wrong.
 
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Small Fish

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Are you saying he came AFTER it?.



Yeah, Since His word is pure and true, I'm going to go with your idea of "the day of the Lord" is wrong.

John the Baptist never forerun the great and terrible day of the Lord which Elijah of Malachi is to do.
 
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