The Biblical Anti-Christ.

Douggg · Aug 14, 2017

Marilyn C said:
Hi Douggg,

The descriptions in Isa. 14 go far transcend any earthly king and (as I said before) by the law of double reference reveal the original power and beauty of the greatest angel ever created by God. The same can be said of the person in Ezekiel 28.

So we both agree that Satan will enter the lawless one and he will thus be possessed by Satan.

Marilyn.

Marilyn, I can agree to the likehood that Satan at one point will enter the person. But it can't be for an extended period of time. Only to commit the transgression of desolation act in 2thessalonians2:4.

Once the person has been cast out of the grave, out of the place of the dead, Satan with him...the person becomes the beast... and is possessed by the unclean spirit of the ancient person currently in the bottomless pit.

Satan, though, is no longer possessing him that last 42 months. Satan goes elsewhere after being temporarily in hell with the slain man of sin. Just like Satan did not remain with Judas.

Satan returns to roaming the second heaven and earth, and its first heaven.

In Revelation 12, Satan is cast down to earth, in the war in heaven, following the sounding of the 7th trump, marking the regime change process of the kingdoms of this world currently under Satan's power to becoming the Kingdoms of God and his Christ.

The 7th trumpet sounds after the two witnesses ascend on day 1263.5 of the 7 year timeline, having fought against the beast for around 75 days as the Jews flee Jerusalem. The beast then has 42 months (1256.5 days) which he rules the world unhampered by the two witnesses.

Satan is cast down, after losing the war in the second heaven, his principality in high places, with a time, times, half times left...... somewhat less than 42 months, which itself is somewhat less than the 1260 days, the exact half of the seven years.

What Satan does to be worshiped will incarnate the image, a statue, made of the beast, making it appear to come alive, and speak. But initially at day 1185 (2520-1335), the image does not speak and is just a statue. It is not till Satan is cast down, shortly after day 1260, that he possesses the image.

On a timeline, it would look like this, some days we have to put a ? because there is not enough information to determine the day.

day 1 - confirmation of the covenant, beginning the 7 years, (2520 days)
day ? - the Antichrist goes rogue, commits the transgression of desolation.
day ? - is killed.
day ? - comes back to life, becoming the beast.
day 1875 - the image of him placed in the temple, the Abomination of desolation. (2520-1335)

the Jews flee to the mountains. As the two witnesses battle the beast.

day 1260 - the two witnesses killed after battling the beast
day 1263.5 - the two witnesses ascend. the beast free to rule the 42 months left
day 1263.5 - the seventh trumpet sounds and the war in heaven takes place.
day ? - Satan cast down, having a time, times, half times left.

Satan incarnates the image of the beast, demands worship, or else.

day 2475 - the sign of the Son of man in heaven (day 1875+1290 days)
day ? - the beast, the false prophet, Satan, convince the kings of the earth to gather their armies to stop Jesus
day 2520 - Jesus descends to earth, executing judgment on those armies.
The beast and false prophet cast into the lake of fire
Satan cast into the bottomless pit for a thousand years.

Marilyn C · Aug 14, 2017

Douggg said:
Marilyn, I can agree to the likehood that Satan at one point will enter the person.

In Revelation 12, Satan is cast down to earth, in the war in heaven, following the sounding of the 7th trump, ....

Satan is cast down, after losing the war in the second heaven, his principality in high places, with a time, times, half times left...... somewhat less than 42 months, which itself is somewhat less than the 1260 days, the exact half of the seven years.

Hi Douggg,

I`ve just focused on the points I agree at the moment and will discuss the other parts soon. I agree with your point of Satan being in the principalities and powers realm before cast out and limited to the earth.

The 42 months in our solar calendar would be more than 1,260 days, however with 30 days a month, (prophetic calendar months)then that equals 1,260 days.

regards, Marilyn.

Douggg · Aug 14, 2017

Marilyn C said:
Hi Douggg,

I`ve just focused on the points I agree at the moment and will discuss the other parts soon. I agree with your point of Satan being in the principalities and powers realm before cast out and limited to the earth.

The 42 months in our solar calendar would be more than 1,260 days, however with 30 days a month, (prophetic calendar months)then that equals 1,260 days.

regards, Marilyn.

Hi Marilyn, no matter what calendar system, the 42 months and the time, times, half times in bible prophecy are not exact equals of 1260 days. The only exact 1260 days are those places stated as 1260 days - Revelation 11:3 and Revelation 12:6.

Not being exactly 1260 days is why the 42 month and the time, times, half times are not given as 1260 days. The 42 months in Revelation is actually 1256.5 days. The time, times, half times is a little less than the 1256.5 days (factoring in the amount of earth time that passes while the war in heaven takes place); we aren't given enough information to know how much less.

Understanding that the 42 months and the time, times, half times are not exact equals of 1260 days, nor to each other is critical . Because the timeframes being slightly different is a go/no go gage to whether a person's end times scenario is correct or not.

To build the timeline for the end times scenario... the timeframes and events fall into either the first half of the seven years or the second half of the seven years.

in the first half
1260 days - Revelation 11:3, 12:6

in the second half
3 1/2 days - Revelation 11:11
42 months - Revelation 11:2, 13:5
times, times, half times - Revelation 12:14, Daniel 7:25, 12:7

please pardon my intransigence....

parousia70 · Aug 14, 2017

Marilyn C said:
Hi parousia,

Yes it is an argument from silence, just as you say there is no ruler called `antichrist.` And asking me for the term `the Final Gentile Global Leader` is also the same.

As I said before you have not addressed the OP biblical details, but have got stuck on the heading.

Marilyn.

I have addressed the OP details... not one single scripture posted in the op about the identity of antichrist mentions antichrist. Not even one.

In contrast there are scriptures that DO explicitly teach about the identity of antichrist, and you ignore them because they do not favor or support your opinion.

I woud expect if you were to teach about Jesus form the Bible, you would use scriptures that teach about Jesus.
Same with Moses, Daniel, Jacob, Job, Adam, Abraham ect....

You wouldn't try to teach about Moses using only scriptures that mention Daniel or Adam, would you?

Then why teach about antichrist using scriptures that do not mention or teach about antichrist, expecially whe we have those scriptures that teach EXPLICITLY about antichrist at your disposal?

GUANO · Aug 14, 2017

Marilyn C said:
His nationality – Assyrian.

The defeat of the Assyrians (by an act of God) was predicted in Isaiah 30 & 31 but was fulfilled soon afterwards in Isaiah 36 & 37 itself lol... These scriptures are not in reference to an end-time antichrist.

Isaiah 36 starts out: ....Now it came to pass in the fourteenth year of king Hezekiah, that Sennacherib king of Assyria came up against all the defenced cities of Judah, and took them...

Assyrian King said in chapter 36:
....Beware lest Hezekiah persuade you, saying, the Lord will deliver us. Hath any of the gods of the nations delivered his land out of the hand of the king of Assyria?

Then at the end of chapter 37:
Then the angel of the Lord went forth, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians a hundred and fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses.

37 So Sennacherib king of Assyria departed, and went and returned, and dwelt at Nineveh.

38 And it came to pass, as he was worshipping in the house of Nisroch his god, that Adrammelech and Sharezer his sons smote him with the sword; and they escaped into the land of Armenia: and Esarhaddon his son reigned in his stead.

Scripture was fulfilled...

Marilyn C · Aug 14, 2017

Douggg said:
Hi Marilyn, no matter what calendar system, the 42 months and the time, times, half times in bible prophecy are not exact equals of 1260 days. The only exact 1260 days are those places stated as 1260 days - Revelation 11:3 and Revelation 12:6.

Not being exactly 1260 days is why the 42 month and the time, times, half times are not given as 1260 days. The 42 months in Revelation is actually 1256.5 days. The time, times, half times is a little less than the 1256.5 days (factoring in the amount of earth time that passes while the war in heaven takes place); we aren't given enough information to know how much less.

Understanding that the 42 months and the time, times, half times are not exact equals of 1260 days, nor to each other is critical . Because the timeframes being slightly different is a go/no go gage to whether a person's end times scenario is correct or not.

To build the timeline for the end times scenario... the timeframes and events fall into either the first half of the seven years or the second half of the seven years.

in the first half
1260 days - Revelation 11:3, 12:6

in the second half
3 1/2 days - Revelation 11:11
42 months - Revelation 11:2, 13:5
times, times, half times - Revelation 12:14, Daniel 7:25, 12:7

please pardon my intransigence....

Hi Douggg,

The 7 years of tribulation, as we know from scripture is the last part of the 70 weeks, (units of seven).
The 7 & 62 `weeks` of years worked out exactly from the edict (Of Artaxerxes Neh. 2: 1 - 8) March 5, 444 BC to March 30, 33 AD, the time of Messiah appearing as Prince, Palm Sunday, (Zech. 9: 9 Luke 19: 29 - 44)

This is 483 years of 30 days. Thus the 7 years is also of 30 days, making the last part 42 months of 30 days = 1,260 days.

God`s word is straightforward and clear. Marilyn.

Marilyn C · Aug 14, 2017

parousia70 said:
I have addressed the OP details... not one single scripture posted in the op about the identity of antichrist mentions antichrist. Not even one.

In contrast there are scriptures that DO explicitly teach about the identity of antichrist, and you ignore them because they do not favor or support your opinion.

I woud expect if you were to teach about Jesus form the Bible, you would use scriptures that teach about Jesus.
Same with Moses, Daniel, Jacob, Job, Adam, Abraham ect....

You wouldn't try to teach about Moses using only scriptures that mention Daniel or Adam, would you?

Then why teach about antichrist using scriptures that do not mention or teach about antichrist, expecially whe we have those scriptures that teach EXPLICITLY about antichrist at your disposal?

Hi parousia,

I have not seen you address my scriptures. You seem hung up on the descriptive name (anti-Christ) of the lawless one and can`t seem to move on to actual discussion of him.

Marilyn.

Marilyn C · Aug 14, 2017

GUANO said:
The defeat of the Assyrians (by an act of God) was predicted in Isaiah 30 & 31 but was fulfilled soon afterwards in Isaiah 36 & 37 itself lol... These scriptures are not in reference to an end-time antichrist.

Hi GUANO,

Glad you are discussing the scripture/s I mentioned in my OP. So let`s look in detail at Isaiah 31.

`For thus the Lord has spoken to me, "As a lion roars, and a young lion over his prey....." So the Lord of hosts will come down to fight for Mount Zion and for its hill. Like birds flying about so will the Lord of hosts defend Jerusalem. Defending He will also deliver it; passing over, He will preserve it."

....Then the Assyrian shall fall by a sword not of man....` (Isa. 31: 4, 5 & 8)

There we see that the Lord will come down to deliver Jerusalem. We know from scripture that `heaven must receive the Lord till the time of restoration of all things.` (Acts 3: 20 & 21) thus this had to be when the Lord comes to deliver Israel from its enemies at the battle of Armageddon.

We also note that the Assyrian is dealt a death blow by a `sword not of man.` This is exactly how the lawless one will be stopped - `Now out of His (Christ`s) mouth goes a sharp sword,....` (Rev. 19: 15)

This insert is referred to as the law of double reference. Yes God delivers Israel from the Assyrians BC however those details there are not fulfilled at that time and refer to a future time.

regards, Marilyn.

GUANO · Aug 14, 2017

Marilyn C said:
Hi GUANO,

Glad you are discussing the scripture/s I mentioned in my OP. So let`s look in detail at Isaiah 31.

`For thus the Lord has spoken to me, "As a lion roars, and a young lion over his prey....." So the Lord of hosts will come down to fight for Mount Zion and for its hill. Like birds flying about so will the Lord of hosts defend Jerusalem. Defending He will also deliver it; passing over, He will preserve it."

....Then the Assyrian shall fall by a sword not of man....` (Isa. 31: 4, 5 & 8)

There we see that the Lord will come down to deliver Jerusalem. We know from scripture that `heaven must receive the Lord till the time of restoration of all things.` (Acts 3: 20 & 21) thus this had to be when the Lord comes to deliver Israel from its enemies at the battle of Armageddon.

We also note that the Assyrian is dealt a death blow by a `sword not of man.` This is exactly how the lawless one will be stopped - `Now out of His (Christ`s) mouth goes a sharp sword,....` (Rev. 19: 15)

This insert is referred to as the law of double reference. Yes God delivers Israel from the Assyrians BC however those details there are not fulfilled at that time and refer to a future time.

regards, Marilyn.

The details were fulfilled. The Assyrian in the Book of Isaiah is about the Assyrian King Sennacherib.

Prophecy:
Isaiah 31
For thus hath the Lord spoken unto me, Like as the lion and the young lion roaring on his prey, when a multitude of shepherds is called forth against him, he will not be afraid of their voice, nor abase himself for the noise of them: so shall the Lord of hosts come down to fight for mount Zion, and for the hill thereof.
As birds flying, so will the Lord of hosts defend Jerusalem; defending also he will deliver it; and passing over he will preserve it.
Then shall the Assyrian fall with the sword, not of a mighty man; and the sword, not of a mean man, shall devour him: but he shall flee from the sword, and his young men shall be discomfited.
And he shall pass over to his strong hold for fear, and his princes shall be afraid of the ensign, saith the Lord, whose fire is in Zion, and his furnace in Jerusalem.
Isaiah 37 confirmation
Behold, I will send a blast upon him, and he shall hear a rumour, and return to his own land; and I will cause him to fall by the sword in his own land.
Fulfillment:
Then the angel of the Lord went forth, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians a hundred and fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses.
So Sennacherib king of Assyria departed, and went and returned, and dwelt at Nineveh.
And it came to pass, as he was worshipping in the house of Nisroch his god, that Adrammelech and Sharezer his sons smote him with the sword; and they escaped into the land of Armenia: and Esarhaddon his son reigned in his stead.

Read the full chapters of Isaiah 31, 32, 36, 37. It's all there as a witness to the testimony of the power of God through the prophet Isaiah and I would think it a great dishonor to apply it so some yet unfulfilled prophecy that requires support from Isaiah to make it 'stand'... If the Assyrian antichrist prophecy is legit, it should come from the mouths of '2 or 3 witnesses' (in the scripture). Just my 2 cents.

Marilyn C · Aug 14, 2017

GUANO said:
The details were fulfilled. The Assyrian in the Book of Isaiah is about the Assyrian King Sennacherib.

Prophecy:
Isaiah 31
For thus hath the Lord spoken unto me, Like as the lion and the young lion roaring on his prey, when a multitude of shepherds is called forth against him, he will not be afraid of their voice, nor abase himself for the noise of them: so shall the Lord of hosts come down to fight for mount Zion, and for the hill thereof.
As birds flying, so will the Lord of hosts defend Jerusalem; defending also he will deliver it; and passing over he will preserve it.
Then shall the Assyrian fall with the sword, not of a mighty man; and the sword, not of a mean man, shall devour him: but he shall flee from the sword, and his young men shall be discomfited.
And he shall pass over to his strong hold for fear, and his princes shall be afraid of the ensign, saith the Lord, whose fire is in Zion, and his furnace in Jerusalem.
Isaiah 37 confirmation
Behold, I will send a blast upon him, and he shall hear a rumour, and return to his own land; and I will cause him to fall by the sword in his own land.
Fulfillment:
Then the angel of the Lord went forth, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians a hundred and fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses.
So Sennacherib king of Assyria departed, and went and returned, and dwelt at Nineveh.
And it came to pass, as he was worshipping in the house of Nisroch his god, that Adrammelech and Sharezer his sons smote him with the sword; and they escaped into the land of Armenia: and Esarhaddon his son reigned in his stead.

Read the full chapters of Isaiah 31, 32, 36, 37. It's all there as a witness to the testimony of the power of God through the prophet Isaiah and I would think it a great dishonor to apply it so some yet unfulfilled prophecy that requires support from Isaiah to make it 'stand'... If the Assyrian antichrist prophecy is legit, it should come from the mouths of '2 or 3 witnesses' (in the scripture). Just my 2 cents.

Hi GUANO,

There was only a partial fulfilment as I showed. And yes we need other scriptures to confirm the nationality of the lawless one - Micah 5: 5. Also important is to look at the king of the north (of Israel) which is the ancient area of Assyria, (Iraq, Syria & Jordan). This person is also referred to as the king of Babylon, which is in Iraq.

God is very precise. Marilyn.

Hal A Peno · Aug 14, 2017

Riberra · Aug 14, 2017

Marilyn C said:
Hi jgr,

The capital `A` (& other capitals of words) in the heading is common in the name of a thread.

Scripture clearly shows that there will be a leader of the final Gentile Global Government and he will be against God, thus the term -anti-Christ. It is a description of this person which is clearly delineated in scripture.

`In the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors have reached their fullness, a king shall arise, having fierce features, who understands sinister schemes. His power shall be mighty, but not by his own power; he shall destroy fearfully, and shall prosper and thrive; he shall destroy the mighty, and also the holy people.

Though his cunning he shall cause deceit to prosper under his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart. He shall destroy many in their prosperity, he shall even rise against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without human hand.`(Dan. 8: 23 - 25)

Marilyn.

Revelation 17:8 tell us from where that entity [BEAST] will come from...

Revelation 17:8 KJV
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and is about to come up out of the BOTTOMLESS PIT, and to go into perdition. And they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, [they] whose name hath not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast, that was, and is not, and shall come.

Revelation 9:11 KJV tell us about the identity of that entity(beast) that will come out of the bottomless pit

Angels are always described in the Bible in the appearance of ordinary man Genesis 18:2... Genesis 19

Marilyn C · Aug 14, 2017

Hal A Peno said:
I've heard that argument before about Sennacherib but it's easily debunked.

Many believe Sennacherib is the Assyrian mentioned in Isaiah. That's not possible because Sennacherib was not destroyed in Israel. He was murdered by his own sons when he returned to Assyria. The Assyrian is said to be destroyed in God's land (Israel) and because of the anointing. The Lord did not perform His whole work during the time of Sennacherib. (720 to about 683 BC). It wasn't the Lord who punished Sennacherib. It was his sons. The Lord's "whole work" is not finished until he returns!

That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon mymountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.

Isaiah 10:12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord hath performed his whole work upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem, I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his high looks.

It's the voice of the Lord that beats down the Assyrian. Not another army.

Isaiah 30:31 For through the voice of the LORD shall the Assyrian be beaten down, which smote with a rod.

The Assyrian cannot be Sennacherib.

Hi Hal,

Thanks for that good bit of info. Must cut & paste it.

Marilyn.

GUANO · Aug 14, 2017

Hal A Peno said:
I've heard that argument before about Sennacherib but it's easily debunked.

Many believe Sennacherib is the Assyrian mentioned in Isaiah. That's not possible because Sennacherib was not destroyed in Israel. He was murdered by his own sons when he returned to Assyria. The Assyrian is said to be destroyed in God's land (Israel) and because of the anointing. The Lord did not perform His whole work during the time of Sennacherib. (720 to about 683 BC). It wasn't the Lord who punished Sennacherib. It was his sons. The Lord's "whole work" is not finished until he returns!

That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon mymountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.

Isaiah 10:12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord hath performed his whole work upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem, I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his high looks.

It's the voice of the Lord that beats down the Assyrian. Not another army.

Isaiah 30:31 For through the voice of the LORD shall the Assyrian be beaten down, which smote with a rod.

The Assyrian cannot be Sennacherib.

Sigh.

chap 31: For through the voice of the Lord shall the Assyrian be beaten down, which smote with a rod.
chap 37: Behold, I will send a blast upon him, and he shall hear a rumour, and return to his own land; and I will cause him to fall by the sword in his own land.

We have here a great illustration of how prophetic symbolism is used and how it is then fulfilled in the real world. "The voice of the Lord" is also sometimes symbolized as a 'trumpet', 'thunderings and lightnings', 'multitude of voices', etc., etc., here we see the voice of the Lord as a rumor which causes a king to drop his siege to return home with his armies (yoke departed). Do you really think that a voice comes out of the sky and kills people? Or that a sword issuing from the mouth of Christ would cut him asunder at the end of time? We do not know whether the armies of Sennacherib were laid upon by an unknown army or if God did it himself miraculously but it doesn't matter at all—it's the same thing—we do know that every single time that God says through the prophets that he's going to punish the Hebrews for their disobedience he does it by sending a conquering army. This is why God is the "Lord of Hosts", it's not talking about invisible angels, He is literally the "Master of Armies" and the armies of this world do His bidding. Brutal, huh?

In regards to the 'whole work', mentioned in Isaiah 10, the scripture isn't talking about the Assyrian, it's talking about the 'fruit' of the Assyrian at that point. Now, I guess you assume he's talking about actual fruits and veggies that he grew and not the 'fruit of his loins' or the 'fruit of his labours'... Also, the 'whole work' is completely subjective... It could be in the context of any specific work, for instance in this case, the 'whole work' could have been to get the Hebrews to repent (which they did for a short time). Anyone can do search for the phrase 'whole work' and find a lot, are you saying every instance means.... x? So in Genesis 2, it says that God rested from 'all the work'... Is the 'whole work' and 'all the work' the same 'thing'?

I just don't understand. This is one of the more clear-cut prophecies in the whole Bible, one that should really encourage faith in a God that speaks through prophets and has demonstrated the power of His Word through them... I'm completely flabbergasted that people deny so adamantly deny it. I could go through it verse by verse but that isn't going to do any good I'm afraid.

Marilyn C · Aug 15, 2017

Riberra said:
Revelation 17:8 tell us from where that entity [BEAST] will come from...

Revelation 17:8 KJV
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and is about to come up out of the BOTTOMLESS PIT, and to go into perdition. And they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, [they] whose name hath not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast, that was, and is not, and shall come.

Revelation 9:11 KJV tell us about the identity of that entity(beast) that will come out of the bottomless pit

Angels are always described in the Bible in the appearance of ordinary man Genesis 18:2... Genesis 19

Hi Riberra,

Good addition to the conversation. We know that the `beast that was and is not, and is about to come...` is Satan Himself, the one who gives `his power, his throne, and great authority` (Rev. 13: 2) to the beastly government of man. He is the 8th leader and is of the 7, meaning he possesses the final global leader of the dragon`s beastly government.

` And the beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eight, and is of the seven, (kings, leaders) and is going to perdition.` (Rev. 17: 11)

Marilyn.

Marilyn C · Aug 15, 2017

GUANO said:
Sigh.

chap 31: For through the voice of the Lord shall the Assyrian be beaten down, which smote with a rod.
.

The word of the Lord is like a sword, `living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword.` (Heb. 4: 12)

Christ is the Chief Justice of Heaven`s supreme court. His decisions are final and beyond His verdict there is no other court of appeal. He exercises the final prerogative that is essential to judgeship; He is able to kill and to make alive.

Thus we see that when the Lord personally comes in power and great glory, with His mighty angels, (the Lord of hosts) that He comes down to fight for Jerusalem. (Isa. 31: 4 & 5) This time can only be at Armageddon, as heaven must receive the Lord till the time of restoration of all things. (Acts 3: 20 & 21) And that has NOT happened yet!

Marilyn.

GUANO · Aug 15, 2017

Marilyn C said:
The word of the Lord is like a sword, `living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword.` (Heb. 4: 12)

Christ is the Chief Justice of Heaven`s supreme court. His decisions are final and beyond His verdict there is no other court of appeal. He exercises the final prerogative that is essential to judgeship; He is able to kill and to make alive.

Thus we see that when the Lord personally comes in power and great glory, with His mighty angels, (the Lord of hosts) that He comes down to fight for Jerusalem. (Isa. 31: 4 & 5) This time can only be at Armageddon, as heaven must receive the Lord till the time of restoration of all things. (Acts 3: 20 & 21) And that has NOT happened yet!

Marilyn.

I agree. The sword is the Word (Logos)—not a literal sword that issues fourth from the mouth but an instrument which divides truth from fiction (righteous judgement).

In regards to the nature of 'armageddon', we probably don't agree =P

Hal A Peno · Aug 15, 2017

Riberra · Aug 15, 2017

Marilyn C said:
Hi Riberra,

Good addition to the conversation. We know that the `beast that was and is not, and is about to come...` is Satan Himself,

Satan is described as the DRAGON and he will be cast out of Heaven with his fallen angels... so Satan is not the Beast who will ascend out of the bottomless pit [Revelation 17:8] but Angel ABADDON is the Beast of the bottomless pit Revelation 9:11 .

You are looking for a man while the Bible tell us that will be angel Abaddon...who will make his public appearance sometime after the opening of the bottomless pit [Revelation 9] looking exactly like a man with great charisma that will be a great "man" of "peace" who will be presented to the public by the United Nation Assembly or the European community.

Marilyn C said:
the one who gives `his power, his throne, and great authority` (Rev. 13: 2) to the beastly government of man. He is the 8th leader and is of the 7, meaning he possesses the final global leader of the dragon`s beastly government.

` And the beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eight, and is of the seven, (kings, leaders) and is going to perdition.` (Rev. 17: 11)

Marilyn.

Yes, Satan the DRAGON will give authority and power to the Beast as well as the GOVERNMENT BEAST ruled by the 10 rulers/"kings"

Marilyn C said:
Hi Riberra,

` And the beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eight, and is of the seven, (kings, leaders) and is going to perdition.` (Rev. 17: 11)

The beast that will ascend out of the bottomless pit ie [Angel Abaddon] is CITED as going into perdition.
Revelation 17:8
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and is about to come up out of the bottomless pit, and to go into perdition. And they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, [they] whose name hath not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast, how that he was, and is not, and shall come.

Marilyn C · Aug 16, 2017

Riberra said:
Satan is described as the DRAGON and he will be cast out of Heaven with his fallen angels... so Satan is not the Beast who will ascend out of the bottomless pit [Revelation 17:8] but Angel ABADDON is the Beast of the bottomless pit Revelation 9:11 .
You are looking for a man while the Bible tell us that will be angel Abaddon...who will make his public appearance sometime after the opening of the bottomless pit [Revelation 9] looking exactly like a man with great charisma that will be a great "man" of "peace" who will be presented to the public by the United Nation Assembly or the European community.

Yes, Satan the DRAGON will give authority and power to the Beast as well as the GOVERNMENT BEAST ruled by the 10 rulers/"kings"

The beast that will ascend out of the bottomless pit ie [Angel Abaddon] is CITED as going into perdition.
Revelation 17:8
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and is about to come up out of the bottomless pit, and to go into perdition. And they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, [they] whose name hath not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast, how that he was, and is not, and shall come.

Hi Riberra,

Glad we agree that Satan will give authority and power to the beast as well s the government ruled by the 10 kings.

Now let us look at this angel, Abaddon.

`And I saw a star that had fallen from heaven to the earth. And to him was given the key to the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit and smoke arose out of the pit....then out of the smoke came locusts upon the earth.....and they had a king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.` (Rev. 9: 1 - 3, & 11)

We see that this angel `fell` from heaven, he is called the destroyer, and he is the king of the demons.
Only Lucifer/Satan is recorded as fallen from heaven, the one who destroys, (John 10: 10) and the only angel who is king over the fallen angels.

These `demons` fallen angels in the bottomless pit have been kept there for the tribulation time. The other fallen angels are with Satan in the area of principalities and powers.

Satan, possessing the world`s leader, will not give his `glory` to another angel. The world marvels at the `beast,` the man possessed of Satan, who gives him his authority, throne and power. (Rev. 13: 3 & 4, & Rev. 17: 8)

Marilyn.

The Biblical Anti-Christ.

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