The antichrist says Daniel....

jgr

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saying that it's a 'spirit' and NOT an individual

Yes, that's exactly what 1 John 4:3 says.

The anti-Christ is called the "man of sin and the lawless one."

Show us the scripture for that.

The end-time anti-Christ is likely the Islamic dajjal. The Madhi is likely the false prophet.

Here's a good Scripture for you:

2 Peter 1:19

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

You won't find a "likely" anywhere in Scripture.

I would actually interpret this verse like this

Here's another good Scripture for you:

2 Peter 1:20
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.


Still waiting for you to show us a Scripture in which we see a capital A Antichrist.
 
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GingerBeer

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In other words I proved he is called the BEAST so you don't have anything to rebut. Understood.
There are a number of beasts in the bible so that is not the issue and you've drawn an incorrect conclusion.
 
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Douggg

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The anti Christ may not be a RCC leader. But the RCC seems to fit the mold
for the false prophet who causes the world to worship the beast. this interfaith will do that job .
Who anointed Saul, then David as King of Israel? Samuel the prophet.

Then, who anointed Solomon as King of Israel? Nathan the prophet.

The Jews (Judaism) are looking not only for their messiah - the promised great King of Israel - but also the prophet Elijah. To become the King of Israel, the Jews believe that the messiah will likewise be anointed by a prophet , as Saul, David, Solomon were. I have discussed extensively with the Jews themselves about this particular issue.

Solomon was the last king of united Israel. There have only been three kings of united Israel.

The Jews rejected Jesus as their King. And the scribes and Pharisees mocked him as he was on the cross...

32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

The person who becomes the Anti-Christ, that is, anointed the King of Israel in lieu of Jesus the rightful King - has to be a Jew and his religion Judaism. Likewise the false prophet.

The person who becomes the Antichrist comes out of the nations, a Jew. The person who is the false prophet comes out of Israel, likely claiming to be Elijah.

The pope(s) are not qualified to be either the Antichrist nor the False Prophet.

I appreciate your study of the end times, just the same. :)
 
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Douggg

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Dougg said,



Some people believe this but nowhere is it said that Israel would accept this man. He comes in Islam and other than people forced to, only Muslims will accept him.
Hi Hal, there is not a direct verse in the bible, that states what I wrote. A person has to know what the concept of the messiah is - to realize that the Anti-Christ is someone they will embrace as their King of Israel.

I want to add that the person is only in the Anti-christ role while he is the King of Israel. When the person commits the transgression of desolation, claiming to be God - the Jews will reject him as their King of Israel. The person will be killed and brought back to life - it is then, no longer the Antichrist, the person becomes the beast in Revelation that last 42 months of the seven years.

Regarding Islam, and the Muslims, the event of Ezekiel 38/39 will be the end of Islam... and the beginning of the time of the Antichrist.... Muslim control of the temple mount gone.

In Ezekiel 39, there are 7 years following the destruction of Gog's army. That 7 years is the same 7 years as Daniel 9:27. Commencing with the confirmation of the Mt. Sinai covenant, by the Jews perceived messiah. Mose was the first to confirm the covenant for seven years.... in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

Then, at the end of the 7 years, the Armageddon event is the feast on the dead bodies in Ezekiel 39:17-20. Verse 21, is Jesus speaking, returned to earth to rule over the nations, having just judged the armies gathered to make war on him.
 
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Douggg

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Dougg said,


Where does our bible say "The Anti-Christ is someone Israel will embrace as their King of Israel?"

The concept of the anti-Christ is that he rules a kingdom separate from Israel. He and his allies invade Israel. Israel will not accept the anti-Christ because no man will come claiming to be Israel's Messiah. The messiah prophesied in scripture is the Madhi, Muslim jesus, and dajjal.

In John 5, Jesus said (paraphrased to the Jews, that he comes in His Fathers name, and they reject him; but if another should come in his own name - him they will receive.

You say no man will come claiming to be Israel's Messiah. Historically, there have been many.

For example from Judaism101 site -

"There are a wide variety of opinions on the subject of when the mashiach will come. Some of Judaism's greatest minds have cursed those who try to predict the time of the mashiach's coming, because errors in such predictions could cause people to lose faith in the messianic idea or in Judaism itself. This actually happened in the 17th century, when Shabbatai Tzvi claimed to be the mashiach. When Tzvi converted to Islam under threat of death, many Jews converted with him. Nevertheless, this prohibition has not stopped anyone from speculating about the time when the mashiach will come."

But none of those were ever anointed the King of Israel, to become the Anti-Christ. (the) Christ means the promise great King of Israel to lead the Jews and the rest of the world into the age of peace and safety among other things. I gave you the text of "Christ the King of Israel" in Mark 15:32.

The Mahdi, the Muslim Jesus - Isa, and the dajjal - in the muslim Antichrist theory equates the Mahdi as the Antichrist (on a mis-understood concept of the meaning of Christ and therefore Anti-Christ), and Isa as the false prophet.

The problem is there is no biblical correlation of who will be the dajjal - in the bible.

In Muslim belief, the Mahdi and dajjal forces are supposed to be in heated battle, with the outcome in question - when Isa returns and defeats the dajjal. The problem is again, there is no corresponding person in bible prophecy to play the roll of the dajjal.... for the muslim Mahdi Antichrist theory to fit.

No man will come as a Messiah to Israel, therefore, no Jews will be required to accept him unless they are forced to. The anti-Christ is not Israel's Messisah, and he doesn't come from the church like some would claim.

It is not that the Jews will be required to accept the person as their messiah. They are eagerly looking for him. They don't consider the person the Antichrist of course. But to them, it is the "real" messiah they are looking for. The Jews consider Jesus a failed messiah.

from the Judaism101 site (what they are looking for) -

The term "mashiach" literally means "the anointed one," and refers to the ancient practice of anointing kings with oil when they took the throne. The mashiach is the one who will be anointed as king in the End of Days.

Why do you guys believe this stuff when there's not one verse that says such a thing? I've been asking for years for people to show me how they arrive at that conclusion but nobody seems to know.

You were referring to Ezekiel 38/39. The countries identified in the first part of Ezekiel 38 with the exception of Gog (appears to be Russia) are muslim. Islam's desire to destroy Israel is pretty obvious; there is no reason for me to explain that.

There are two feasts in Ezekiel 39. The first one, in Ezekiel 39:4, it says in the text is on Gog's army. The second one in Ezekiel 39:17-20 doesn't mention Gog... but matches the text of Revelation 19:17-18.

The 7 years is the same 7 years in Daniel 9:27 - which the prince who shall come - the little horn person, political leader of the EU, who will have staged his army in Greece right before Gog/Magog and afterward will move his army into the middleeast on grounds of securing peace.

from Judaism 101 site of what they are expecting in their messiah -

The mashiach will be a great political leader descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5). The mashiach is often referred to as "mashiach ben David" (mashiach, son of David). He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5). He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. He will be a great military leader, who will win battles for Israel. He will be a great judge, who makes righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15). But above all, he will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being.

Where they are getting the above from is a famous Jewish theologian called the RAMBAM, who restated messiah passages in the Tanach. The messiah is supposed to fight the battles of God in defending Israel. Which, the little horn will appear to have intended when he stages his army in Greece as a deterrent to the Gog/Magog invasion.

There are 7 years in the text of Ezekiel 39 following the feast on Gog's army. Those are the same 7 years in Daniel 9:27. The Jews will think he is the messiah, and he will have huge ego and will probably think of himself in that way as well. Which in playing the role, will make a big speech on the temple mount that God gave the land of Israel, to the children of Israel as theirs forever.

That speech will be the confirming of the covenant - for 7 years. Because the "for 7 years" is the cycle Moses established when he made the intial big speech to the children of Israel back in Deuteronomy 31:9-13, as they were about to enter the promised land. The Jews, I have spoke to them about the requirement, and they affirmed it is to be done - but can't be done right now because the muslim controlling the temple mount won't allow it.

So it will not happen until after Gog/Magog.
 
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Handmaid for Jesus

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Where does our bible say "The Anti-Christ is someone Israel will embrace as their King of Israel?"
John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
 
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Douggg

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Dougg said,

Earlier my response was,

"IF is a conditional participle which makes reference to time and to experience, introducing something future, but not determining, before the event, whether it is cretain to take place." (Thayer)

None of them amounted to anything worth mentioning. Historically is unimportant. We're talking about the end.

Where is it said there's a Jewish anti-Christ coming that will lead the world to an age of peace and safety? I have no idea what you're trying to say about Mark 15:32.



I don't know what you mean by that. Why would there be any corelation if we don't know who these people are? If it were intended for the man of sin to come as Israel's messisah, I think that would be stated clearly, but it's not. The anti-Christ is coming for Muslims, not Jews.

Yes there is a coresponding person in that Role, Nebuchadnezzar. You'd be surprised.


I just can't believe that in today's Israel that would ever take place. I just want to see scriptural evidence, but forums are full of people who tell you what they believe, but never give scriptural evidence or solid reasons HOW they arrive at their conclusion.

You said,
"Islam's desire to destroy Israel is pretty obvious; there is no reason for me to explain that." So why do you see a Jewish anti-Christ, and said this earlier....

"lead the Jews and the rest of the world into the age of peace and safety among other things."
So it's like you're saying the man of sin will save Israel from Islam or something.


I wasn't refering to Ezekiel 39.


That's great. Now show me the beef about the EU. If all you can do is tell me what you believe without showing why, where in the bible, and how you arrive at these outrageous assumptions, then this is no fun. I've seen it all too often.

Hal, do you understand the biblical concept of the messiah is that of being the promised King of Israel, descended from King David ?

Hal, who is this talking about?

Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
 
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Douggg

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You need to look at the text a little closer. An Israeli anti-christ isn't infered in John 5:43, but it hardly matters because of the word IF...

IF is a conditional participle which makes reference to time and to experience, introducing something future, but not determining, before the event, whether it is cretain to take place.
(Thayer)
as ye have heard that antichrist shall come.

The understanding that antichrist shall come, the Christians John was speaking to were already aware of the concept of the antichrist. Where would they have gotten that awareness from? From what Jesus said in John 5:43.

1John2:
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

In fact, everything that John communicated in 1John2 on the antichrist comes from John 5. Which makes sense, since the gospel of John and 1John, it is the same John... referring back to what Jesus has said.
 
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Douggg

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We aren't talking about about the Messish so it doesn't matter! You associate the two but there's no reason to associate them. We are talking about the anti-Christ, not the messisah. That word, MESSISAH is only used twice in the bible in Daniel. Translated annointed' it's used about 37 times to describe several people.

It doesn't matter what Zech 9:9 says, it's talking about Christ bringing salvation to Israel in his first advent. That verse proves absolutely nothing about the biblical anti-Christ, but I can walk you through "the daughter of Zion and Jerusalem" if you don't understand them.
You don't need to walk me through anything. It states clearly in John 12:13-15 what it means.

To know what the Anti-Christ means, it is necessary to know what the root word Christ means, and biblical concepts regarding the Christ.

I gave you the verses that Christ means messiah. Messiah, coming from the Jewish word for anoint, which the King and Priests in the Tanach were anointeds. And when referring to "the" messiah, it is the king to the daughters of Zion, riding into Jerusalem on a donkey having salvation. Which I gave you the verse in John 12, which it says Jesus fulfilled that prophecy - and called the King of Israel. And that in Mark 15:32, the scribes and pharisees, mocking Jesus - said, Christ the King of Israel.

It does matter what Zechariah 9:9 says, because it identifies Jesus the Christ as the messiah, King of Israel in John 12.

13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,

15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt. [Zechariah 9:9]

16 These things understood not his disciples at the first: but when Jesus was glorified, then remembered they that these things were written of him, and that they had done these things unto him.

The prefix Anti - instead of, and/or against. No MUSLIM qualifies to be the Anti-Christ, because no muslim can become the King of Israel, instead of and against Jesus the rightful King of Israel.
 
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Douggg

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The prefix 'anti' isn't found in any of the verses you've quoted about the Messiah. AND! We aren't talking about Messiah! We are discussing the anti-christ!
Them who John was speaking to in 1John2:18, were not already aware that "anti" was coming. It is the whole word antichrist, in 1John2:18. The prefix is joined to the root word. The meaning of the root word gives the meaning of the new word when anti is added to it.
 
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Douggg

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Show me a verse that says the anti-Christ will come and become Israel's 'instead annointed."
Every Christian knows that Jesus is "the" Christ. Or should know. The person who becomes the anti-christ, which it implies anti-(Jesus)Christ, does so by being anointed the King of Israel instead of and against (anti) Jesus the rightful king of Israel.

There is not a specific verse as you are demanding because it is all built-in to the word anti-christ. The Christians whom John was speaking to understood this and were already aware that anti-christ was coming.

If the antichrist were the muslim Mahdi, how would them in their day 600 years before Islam have been aware that the muslim Mahdi was coming - a religion and religious figure not even invented in their day?
 
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Douggg

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Maybe. But that means nothing about him being a Jew. If a Jewish anti-Christ were prophesied, I think that's a significant enough scenario that it would be claerly stated somewhere in the bible but i's not. You base your entire theory on the idea that the Jews didn't accept him the first time around.
It would be clear if we were living 2000 years ago, and have not been conditioned, because of Christianity's rightful focus, to think of "Christ" in terms of being the Savior in our spreading to the gospel, and not focused on the messiah being the promised great King of Israel, which them in John's day, were expecting of the messiah.

There is no start to finish comprehensive end times scenario given in any one place in the bible. The end times scenario is scattered out through the entire bible in parts. The end times scenario has to be put together from the time of the end events in the multitude of chapters, on a timeline given in a multitude of chapters and passages, and is impossible to understand apart from understanding given by the Holy Spirit. Humanly speaking, it can't be done. It's sealed.

In general, a person has to take the arch villian of the end times..... Trace his role(s) through the timeline given, based on the seven years, the start and the finish. Then a person would have a pretty good picture of the end times scenario.
 
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