Clarifying the Word of Faith movement

Gracia Singh said:

Again, Sir, that sounds like a very man and will centered theology.

As a Word of Faith believing Christian, would you say that loosing our lives, property, jobs, wealth, health, or loved ones for the sake of Christ would be something that God, by His very nature, might ask us to do for His sake?

Not that I am good at giving things up for Christ; I'm not. I'm also a poor speaker. But would you say that God might call / challenge you or I to give up the above mentioned things for Christ, as a part of His will for us?

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I am not completely word of faith. But I believe the Bible and 2 Corinthians 1:20 which are all the promises. So the question is will a believer that believes the Bible and 2 Corinthians 1:20 give up stuff on God's request? God will not ask us to give up stuff. The trouble in the world and our enemy Satan will try to destroy, steal and kill. Our serving God may put us in a place of risk. Psalms 91 states that God will protect us from disaster. We can serve in faith that the gospel will be spread in the midst of trouble and disaster. Now I do give up stuff such as playing tennis on Sunday morning. I have better things to do. I do give up watching movies and TV because I gain more life by studying, meditating on the Word of God. I don't drink booze because I have the Holy Spirit to help and comfort me.

The things of this world will be less valuable to us as we see the value of serving our King and the joy that brings. I don't turn away wealth, but pass it on to further the advancement of God's Kingdom.

Lose my life? For me to live is Christ and die is GAIN! Philippians 1:21
Lose property? God will provide all my needs. Philippians 4:19
Lose a job? Ephesians 2:10 God has work for me to do and I will be a success in it. Psalms 1:3
Lose wealth? God owns the cattle on a thousand hills and will provide for me. Philippians 4:19
Lose health? It is always God's will to heal. Isaiah 53:5; Matthew 8:17; 1 Peter 2:24; Acts 10:8; Psalms 103:3; Mark 11:22-25; Ephesians 1:3: 2 Corinthians 1:20; John 15:7; John 14;13,14; 1 John 3:22; Psalms 91:10; Deuteronomy 7:15; Matthew 9:35; Matthew 10:8 I compiled over 200 verses on healing. And from time to time I find more!
Lose a loved one? I have not studied that but I believe God will keep my loved ones from harm because I have authority in Jesus name. John 14:14

Luke 14:33 "So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions."
If you like we can take this verse and discuss it in another forum.

now faith said:

No need,feel free to ask about our beliefs.
We are often misrepresented and for some reason people think we have something to do with seed for prayer and Benny Hinn.

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Thanks. I stumbled upon this thread just now and found it interesting. I have not seen an answer to the question that was asked about the Trinity. Yes, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost were mentioned in reply. Also, there was point 12 of post 4 above that spoke of Jesus' mission in terms that did not sound Trinitarian. But I could be wrong or have missed something along the way.

Albion said:

Thanks. I stumbled upon this thread just now and found it interesting. I have not seen an answer to the question that was asked about the Trinity. Yes, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost were mentioned in reply. Also, there was point 12 of post 4 above that spoke of Jesus' mission in terms that did not sound Trinitarian. But I could be wrong or have missed something along the way.

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For teaching purposes....

Hey Albion, our (WOF) statement of faith as (nowfaith) presented (as is)... doesn't address the beliefs of Word of Faith in the teaching of the Trinity as it should, would, or could be, that's for sure. The CF Forum (Statement of Faith) and the Nicene Creed are located in the Terms of Service and Christian Forum Rules (Community Rules). In there should also mention the Trinity beliefs, however... The Nicene Creed (there) has listed several (blue highlighted) scriptures for reference but they won't click open for me for some reason.

So, to move on...

From the beginning of creation in Genesis to the end of times in Revelation, God refers to Himself as "us" or "our" and thus describes the doctrine of the Trinity. The word trinity comes from "tri" meaning three and "unity" meaning one. God is three distinct individuals - God the Father, the Son Jesus, and the Holy Spirit - in one true God. (GotQuestions.org)

It's "interesting" that Genesis starts out in verse (1) "In the BEGINNING, "God" created the heavens and the earth. (2) The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters."

In verses (3) to (24) God lists these (three) words "seven" times... "And God said..." "And God said..." etc. And also, in the same passages God began to "SPEAK".... ("let", or "let there be") twelve times. Example: (Let there be... "light")

Who was He talking to?

In verse (26), notice... God changed the wording from "And God said" to Then God said... "Let (us) make man in (our) image, after (our) likeness. I flunked English in High School, but dosen't the word (then) here appear to have more emphasis (to take notice) that God wasn't exactly by Himself? God appears to be (singular) up until this verse. Anyone agree?

The Trinity... (Just a few scriptures)




Notice in (Matthew 3:16-17) that all three were (present) here individually as the Trinity. There are many scriptures in the Word that mentions all three if someone were to do the research. A good start would be to continue in GotQuestions.org to further teach about the Trinity.

I hope this helps...

hhodgson said:

I hope this helps...

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Not much, unfortunately, although I appreciate the effort. The most direct statement in the post may be this one:

hhodgson said:

God is three distinct individuals

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...and that's actually a denial of the Trinity.

But neither do I want to grill you or cross-examine you on your own forum, so if you want to leave the matter here, that is all right.

Albion said:

Not much, unfortunately, although I appreciate the effort. The most direct statement in the post may be this one:



...and that's actually a denial of the Trinity.

But neither do I want to grill you or cross-examine you on your own forum, so if you want to leave the matter here, that is all right.

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I disagree,it is simply a understanding that we have of God.
God is one in essence, God is three persons each being God.
Yet there is one God.
We see this in man kind who has a Spirit Soul and Body.
We see God making Man and Woman ,this consitutes 6 separate beings with 6 being the number of man.
When a man and a woman ,are in one Spirit with God this is 7 beings in one
accord and 7 represents the symbol for completion and perfection.

We come to salvation by the baptism in the Blood of Christ through the Spirit of God.
We are Baptised in water in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit.
We are brought to the fullness of knowledge of God through the anointing of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Three separate occurrences, yet one salvation.
During the time of Moses the temple was a foreshadow of God's redemptive plan.
They entered by blood sacarifice,they cleansed in a basin,then they were anointed.
These three things were required before entering into the Holy temple of God.
Each one represents the three persons of God,yet their was one holy place where God resided.

now faith said:

I disagree,it is simply a understanding that we have of God.
God is one in essence, God is three persons each being God.

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Not a problem there, but what I responded to said that these are three individuals. That POV is considered to be non-Trinitarian. Of course, people sometimes choose words that convey meanings that aren't exactly what they intended, which is why I merely passed the observation along.

scottmcc2 said:

The things of this world will be less valuable to us as we see the value of serving our King and the joy that brings. I don't turn away wealth, but pass it on to further the advancement of God's Kingdom.

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Absolutely awesome!

Albion said:

Not a problem there, but what I responded to said that these are three individuals. That POV is considered to be non-Trinitarian. Of course, people sometimes choose words that convey meanings that aren't exactly what they intended, which is why I merely passed the observation along.

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Hey Albion, My (response) to your posts is also... for Word/Faith forum teaching purposes. When you quoted my post (24), when I said, "I hope this helps"... You responded with, "Not much, unfortunately, although I appreciate the effort." And for that (Albion), I do thank you. Maybe, the word (individuals) is not the best to use here for I do believe in the Trinity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. They are one. In fact, as (Andrew Wommack) says, "they are so much ONE that they can’t operate independent of each other."

Whether it makes a difference or not, I actually said three "distinct" individuals. I just copied it from GotQuestions.org... (IMO), they are a favorable source of information in most cases. What I teach here (or attempt to) is not just among ourselves as WOF believers... but also for anyone, and everyone who enters here... and, not to mention to all who are (viewers) of our forum.

In my research, (someone) said this, "The triune God is a mystery one cannot explain..... precisely."

Thanks for sharing...

Hi. I appreciate the further information. I do not think that adding distinct to individuals helps, because the problem with saying individuals is that it suggests a triad of beings having a common purpose, like a celestial board of directors. Nevertheless, the rest of your post works to dispel that view, if I am reading you correctly.

I haven't encountered a lot of people asking me about WOF, nor do I know anyone who belongs to one of your congregations, but if that should come to pass in the future, I am more than grateful to have your commentary on this important subject.

To quote Kent Hovine:
If we could fit God in our 3 pound Brain He wouldn't be God.

now faith said:

To quote Kent Hovine:
If we could fit God in our 3 pound Brain He wouldn't be God.

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So, if our brain weighs more or less then 3 pounds He still wouldn't be God? And why do I ask that? At a recent visit to my local VA Hospital, I was told by the (neuropsychologist), that was checking me out... actually said that my brain is shrinking. Apparently (according to him) there is no real concern. I had none anyway.

With that being said.... I'm extremely excited that (while at work) on a Saturday, at exactly (12:15) PM... on November 10th, 1979... I accepted Jesus Christ in my HEART... and not in my head where my (shrinking) brain lives. Wow! How many times in (my childhood) in that small Pilgrim Holiness (Wesleyan) Church... did I go up front to answer the alter call invitation? Were any of them a real conversion experience? This is a question for All of our viewers that monitor in the background of this forum, and for that matter, including anyone that comes in to our house (WOF forum).

Now, with that being said... (you will like this) John... for (5) years ago I started to go to the same VA Hospital for earlier testing (agent orange exposure in Vietnam) and the heart Dr. (Cardiologist) said then that my heart was "enlarged." I guess that could be good news. A shrinking brain and an enlarged heart. I know He entered my heart but He didn't have to bring His suitcase along. (Sheesh)!

My answer to the question? If I... didn't make a total commitment to Christ in (1979) as mentioned above... then I would have been playing Russian Roulette each time I went up to the alter in my earlier years. It's like an activity that is (much more than) a potentially dangerous practice of loading a bullet into one chamber of a revolver, spinning the cylinder, and then pulling the trigger while pointing the gun at my head. Who wants to take that chance? How many times did I ("quote")... get saved? That's a lot of bullets!

(If I may)... a little ministering here...

If anyone reading this had the same, or similar alter experience over the years... then don't take that "loaded gun chance" and please... examine your faith walk to see if you are "indeed" a truly born-again Child of God. And if you DO examine yourselves and (really) don't know, then drop to your knees, (no matter where you are) and give your heart to Christ, right now! Time of playing church is over. Look around, things are happening as never before and time... (as we know it) is... short. If you did this and NOW, that you are truly saved, consider your family, friends, neighbors, and other loved ones that need to examine themselves also. You can help lead them to the Lord by your own experience.

I have shared this before about a man who was a member in our (spirit filled) AOG Church who had (appearingly) been saved for many years. Was active in church functions. He praised and worshipped the Lord along with the rest of us. No one knew any different (even his wife). As one of the deacons, we were all up front during an alter invitation to help those who needed prayer. (One) of the other deacons felt led to go up to this guy in the congregation to invite and lead him down the aisle for prayer, in which he did and received Christ as his Lord and Savior, and truly became born-again. He was "ecstatic" and shared with the Church... that he realized he was NEVER saved. It didn't take long that he and his wife pastored a church in our area.

Thank you (nowfaith) for this opening to help others find their way in their walk with Christ...

There may be a positive side to your exposure.

The heart, like the brain, generates a powerful electromagnetic field, McCraty explains in The Energetic Heart. ... The electrical field as measured in an electrocardiogram (ECG) is about 60 times greater in amplitude than the brain waves recorded in an electroencephalogram (EEG).”Jul 22, 2010
The Energetic Heart Is Unfolding - HeartMath Institute

A kind word and a powerful heart for the Lord is a Blessing for all.

now faith said:

There may be a positive side to your exposure.

The heart, like the brain, generates a powerful electromagnetic field, McCraty explains in The Energetic Heart. ... The electrical field as measured in an electrocardiogram (ECG) is about 60 times greater in amplitude than the brain waves recorded in an electroencephalogram (EEG).”Jul 22, 2010
The Energetic Heart Is Unfolding - HeartMath Institute

A kind word and a powerful heart for the Lord is a Blessing for all.

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I sent them an e-mail for subscription to their site. Sounds interesting.

If you are looking for someone to make sense of the doctrine of the trinity you will not find it here... or anywhere else. The final phrase of any discussion is "the doctrine is a mystery... it is beyond our ability to understand." If that be so... I am not sure there is any way to write a mystery down on paper. It, after all, is a mystery. Some actually go so far as implying "We do not understand God.... and if you do you are a heritic. We do not understand Him... and we demand that you not understand Him either!"

In post 21 I mentioned this:
Lose a loved one? I have not studied that but I believe God will keep my loved ones from harm because I have authority in Jesus name. John 14:14

As I was reading the Bible the other day this verse stood out:
Luke 11:21 ""When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed." NASB

When we are fully armed. Using the armour of God. Eph 6:10f Helmet of salvation, breastplate of righteousness, girded with truth, shoes with the prep of the gospel of peace, sword of the Spirit and shield of faith. And all prayer. And in Romans 13:12 we have the armour of light. When we are using these we are able to protect those who God has given to us. Ask this forum of Word of Faith how these work. (I'm not using the Word of Faith badge, so I can't teach here.) 2 Cor 10:3-6; and other verses.

now faith said:

Yes We are Charismatics if you place us in a group.
We are a movement based on the all the promises of God being for us.

It's very simple to understand ,because we base our prayer life on Schripture rather than doubt.
We do not believe after praying, if it be thine will because we know God's will from God's Word.
We believe healing was in the atonement of Christ,and it is always God's will for our healing.
We believe in living a prosperous life and through abundant resources we are blessed so that we may bless others.
We believe that Christ gave back the authority that Adams sin cost mankind.
We believe the name of Jesus is supreme and being in Christ we are given the right to use His name overall the principality and strongholds of this World.
We believe God is pleased by our Faith,and without Faith ,prayer is held back.
And yes we believe in the Father ,Son,and Holy Ghost and baptize as such.

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God is pleased by our faith?

Faith is begun & ended by God. How can God be pleased with our faith when he has given it?

From post #37
Faith is begun & ended by God. How can God be pleased with our faith when he has given it?

Hebrews 11:6 God is pleased when we exercise the faith we are given.
Mark 11:22 Have faith in God." God gives us faith but we have to use it.
Hebrews 4:2 The word they heard did not profit them because it was not united by faith in those who heard. The same is for us as it was for Israel going into the promised land. God gives us a promise, but we don't get anything out of it unless we use the faith we have to gain the victory.

scottmcc2 said:

From post #37
Faith is begun & ended by God. How can God be pleased with our faith when he has given it?

Hebrews 11:6 God is pleased when we exercise the faith we are given.
Mark 11:22 Have faith in God." God gives us faith but we have to use it.
Hebrews 4:2 The word they heard did not profit them because it was not united by faith in those who heard. The same is for us as it was for Israel going into the promised land. God gives us a promise, but we don't get anything out of it unless we use the faith we have to gain the victory.

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There it is, the Keyword: (exercise)... by believing from the heart.

Si_monfaith said:

God is pleased by our faith?

Faith is begun & ended by God. How can God be pleased with our faith when he has given it?

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Faith is up to the individual Our ability to have faith is up to God, but our will to
Throughout the New Testament, Christ shows his approval of those who moved in Faith.
Hebrews: 11. 5. By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6. But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Many things have been given to us from God to live in victory,yet many people do not believe.